About Nagafen's absense...

[Amerelium]

...I kinda understand it. Now, before u start mouthing off, consider thid; in the feedback thread he started he had to answer the same questions over and over again, and it deteriorated into flames pretty fast. I don't know HOW many times he trried to restart the thread, but it all went basically to arullu after a few days, each time. So maybe they figured out there was little point.

Mind u, I still think they could pop out and state thet they're still alive from time to time, but as I'm from Unity, I'm kinda used to the lack of communication. My point is, the community is also to blame for any lack of communication. I know I sure as heck would not have had the patience for it...

[Kerech]

I disagree.

Nagafen is the community liason for us to address issues with the game (last I heard). He should be here every day reading threads, responding to them, etc. Assuming he even still works for EII/PME, that is.

We as a community have heavy-handed moderation on this board, no contact with the devs/owners *at all*, a dwindling population base, increasing uncertainty about whether our characters will be around much longer...

People from Unity and Blight have already lost their characters - permanently it seems. Chaos was almost in the same boat last week. Sure they fixed it, but we were left in the dark for a long time wondering before enough people finally pestered them into saying *something*.

Saying that Nagafen has a right not to post simply because people complained? No, I don't buy that one bit. The player base needs someone to complain to from time to time. Someone who can interact with the company and get our complaints across. Someone who won't just delete our posts and moderate us into oblivion.

But this is all moot - nobody from PME cares about what we the community think anyway.

[Peaches]

Moderation issues do not belong here on the boards. Please, send me or EI a pm concerning this.

Thanks

[Aria]

Except that Nagafen is no longer our community manager.

Embrys is the new guy in charge...he's managed to start one thread, on historians, over a month ago. Which is odd, because Naggy stated that Embry would able to be here more often with us, communicate better because he understood game mechanics more than Naggy. I suppose a single thread on something noone has heard a peep about since is what Nag had in mind?

[Solitaire]

I'm going to strongly disagree. Nagafen made his first appearance; reluctantly it seemed to me, after we saw some arrogant sounding and very unprofessional posts from Horizon's newly minted owners. We the players (at least on the NA servers) saw our game go from seeming to have a decent future to uncertainty followed by outright alarm when we began to see signs that none of the Tulga staff were going to be hired to continue such important things as the new client, new server and finish the confectioner changes among other things. It deteriorated quickly after when they could not handle the challenges of running the game that had more than it's share of issues, such as the billing disaster that still continues in some form over 6 months later. EI helped create the environment where they got roasted by the players here and we lit the fires and poured on the fuel. Granted, there was some over reaction in some places. But in others, the expressing of alarm was justly warranted. Nagafen came in when a large group of uncertain and angry people started turning on EI and each other. It was inevitable that he was going to receive the heat. I'll give him credit, he handled it fairly well. But to me it seemed that he was under heavy restrictions in what he could say either by not knowing or orders from above.

On December 8, Nagafen announced in this thread http://community.istaria.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=15696 that Embrys had been hired to take over communication management that he had been handling. Well, Nagafen stepped back into the shadows and rarely posted since. And Embrys.... He quickly disappeared. 8 whole posts and has not even logged into the forums since December 31. IF he is still employeed by EI, then his communication is an utter failure.

Let’s face the facts here. These forums are stifled. Heavily modded and locked so that new people cannot join in. In other words, darn near useless for the people that would benefit from it most. And those of us who have put up with the past half year of mismanagement, anger smolders until something sparks and sets us ablaze and EI gets burned all over again. And they deserve it each and every time it happens. There is little trust and respect for EI because nothing can replace good honest communication and proper action to build both.

[AA0]

One of the reasons why the same question was asked over and over again was because it was simply never answered. There was a lot of blame shifting, uncertainity and attempting to find answers, but none were given. You can not blame the community for that mess.

[Hal`cyon Sskyler]

I sincerely doubt that Mr. Dobbins even works for EI anymore.

[Steelclaw]

My impression from the way Nagafen acted was that he wasn't all for being "Community Manager". I'm not sure why -- it could be that community relations wasn't his ball of wax, the way he was treated by the people here, or something about the internal relations of EI, or maybe the planets just weren't aligned right.

No matter the cause, if he didn't really care for what he was doing, I don't blame him for not coming around. It doesn't help morale or boost confidence in a company if their interface to the public is apathetic.

As for the silence, consider the current situation. What IS there to talk about? Sure, I'd love to see "Hey, whats up besides Chaos? Hahaha!", but besides that, what do you expect to talk about with whoever is managing community relations?

Anything that can make EI look bad is off limits. It appears that EI is not making the kind of technical progress expected of them. An official discussion of the matter, as seen in the past, only serves to humiliate EI and disappoint the players. Disappointed players start to think about leaving. As long as the troubles remain unconfirmed speculation, the discontent remains at a minimum. Do not expect to hear anything about their technical progress untill they are confident in their skills or manage to break something to the extent that they need to address it. Likewise, anything that can tie back to this, their lack of experience with the nuances of the communities, or lack of knowledge of the game is similarly off limits.

If you can find something to talk about which does not fall under that restriction, and if there is someone reading, then maybe they will join in. Otherwise, it looks like silence is an indication that "All systems (are) nominal".

[pan]

at construction sites, they have these guys that sweep the paved roads and cleaner plates. every 10 seconds a truck dumps dirt all over the road and mucks up the plates. yet they still sweep it up. over and over again, its their ******** job.

[Xante]

at construction sites, they have these guys that sweep the paved roads and cleaner plates. every 10 seconds a truck dumps dirt all over the road and mucks up the plates. yet they still sweep it up. over and over again, its their ******** job.

sooo true ... BUT! the companies that have the sweepers don`t do it to make the public happy or anyhitng positive like that .... its for their own ... in order to have their butts covered for potential lawsuits for compensation when a person falls due to the dirt of the trucks.

[Thamoris]

I would like to refer to one of my favorite quotes.

" Don't pee on my leg and then tell me it's raining !" ~ Judge Judy

I think that about says it all right there.

[LOVWYRM]

COMMUNITY MANAGER??????
We have none.
Someone may pay someone for that title-wasted money.

If someone deserves that title-it`s Peaches
Don`t get me wrong- I mean that benevolently
(never heard that word, looked it up in LEO^^)
and she should be well paid for that:
For keeping the fires on low flame, holding the people together and risking her mental health, torn between the frontiers.
(though I still do not accept banning , closing, censorship)

"They"(whoever that might be)will not change their pretentious and impertinent behavior-no matter if we shout or whisper.

[Steelclaw]

]If someone deserves that title-it`s Peaches

I strongly disagree. A community manager is the liaison between the community and the developers (... okay lets call them management then). The person in this position must be capable of communicating the needs and wants of each group to the other. This requires an intimate sharing of knowledge of both sides, as well as respect. This also requires trust that the person does not color the flow of information with their own agenda.

Peaches, or any other player in the position of a community manager is a potential conflict of interest. As a player, they have their own interest to protect -- their ability to continue playing in the manner they have gotten used to and continue to enjoy. As a "community manager" (and as a moderator), it is expected that they remain impartial.

Why impartial? When somoene in charge of controlling the exchange of information decides to assert their own agenda, they do two things: 1) by action, they tell everyone on both sides "My opinions are more important than yours, I'm better than you." 2) by consistently blocking one type of opinion, they tell a group of people "You are not significant, you do not exist.". You have to be on the receiving end of that kind of denial (anywhere, not necessiarally here on the forums) to feel the anger and rage it brings on. Besides doing nothing to foster trust, this causes frustration, lowers morale, and increases discontent. It also serves to polarize the community and promote tension between the two sides. That is not good at all.

I don't think we have a community manager from EI, nor do I believe it is wise for Peaches to try and fill that role, official or not. She means well and wishes to help, I really believe that and thank her for trying. However, for the reasons above, it is not the right thing to do.

While this thread isn't about Peaches, it is about the community manager and the flow of information amongst players and EI. Due to her position and actions, she is a very big part of that discussion.

[FleshRoast]

...Peaches, or any other player in the position of a community manager is a potential conflict of interest. As a player, they have their own interest to protect -- their ability to continue playing in the manner they have gotten used to and continue to enjoy. As a "community manager" (and as a moderator), it is expected that they remain impartial...

I appreciate the sentiment behind your opinion Steelclaw, but I think this may not be possible. I don't see how a community manager can fully appreciate the concerns of the community *without* being a player. At the risk of inflaming the already-dead-horse-neverending-feud, consider the difference in communication with authority between those that did play and those that didn't.

I fully agree with you in the importance of impartiality. It takes a special effort and constant critique to do so and be a player. I know I tried to do that when I was a mod and I questioned every mod action I did like that. A lot of the times I questioned other mods about the impartiality of my actions to be sure I didn't fall into the trap you describe.

It isn't easy, but I think you have to find those type of people to be the mods/CM's. You have to be able to seperate the duty from the personal desire. If you can't, you don't need to be doing the job.

[Thamoris]

I tend to think of this as a " small town " situation where the general store is also the video rental, post office, bait shop, gas station, soda fountain...ect. and one or two people run the whole thing.
I agree with Steelclaw...however I think the Horizons situation is such that it's simply not realistic. That is something normaly true..for larger games.
Take my analogy...there is conflict of interest with a general store employee handling the towns mail. They could know alot more about their customers than your typical convience store cashier would.
It is my opinion that we need to simply cut Peaches some slack as she tries to juggle all this....knowing she has the best interest of the community at heart.
The forums are heavily moderated because tensions run so tight...one spark can set the entire forums ablaze very quickly. She moderates negative posts because they are simply counter-productive. Though...I have seen much in the way of constructive critisim go untouched. It has been my experience that only the "vent " and " rant " type posts/threads get moderated.

[Solitaire]

It is my opinion that we need to simply cut Peaches some slack as she tries to juggle all this....knowing she has the best interest of the community at heart.

"The road to (edited) is paved with good intentions."

[Amerelium]

My point was; the feedback thread he started degenerated to hopless rants ere long each time, so I don't blame hims for kinda giving up.

- gee, right nowm I'm drunk, I'm emotional, I miss Hz. I wish we European players could just get some sort of hint of what is going on. I'd hate to see the life of the great Shulahravaukar go out with a whimper. Could always restart on Order/Chaos, but do not know if I have the strength for that...

Current owners: Throw us a lifeline, will 'ya..?

I'm online as Avaleric in EVE Online - Just tearing around the galaxy, looking for the ********...

....I will wait, with a patience only dragons can be in possesion of. Should all things fail, the Great Shulahravaukar will have an offspring in either Chaos or Order - nomatter how cruel the powers are towards us, I cannot be kept away from this world; and I call upon all the other veterans of the EU server(s): Should all fail, then let us at least meet again as little cute hatchies, and make the jouney towards new greatness together!

The community of Horizons is legendary, and none more so than that of Unity. Let us not let that die away. We CANNOT let that die away.

So come on; Cob, Varan, Thokk, Vahk, Tzae, Royal, Fhra, Ivy, Dae, Tak, Fire, and all the ones I cannot remember in my drunken state; let us make a lasting mark on Hz: We are all waiting for a return of the Unity server. but if that should fail to materialize, then I REFUSE to go out with a wimper! That is not the dragon way! Istaria is a special place, and iven if I have found myself to grow mighty tired of it from time ti time, I am unable to leave it behind. It is part of me. The COMMUNITY is part of me. I am part of that community.

We cannot let that die. Even if that means starting all over again.

Gee, I'm really rambling on, aren't I..?

For more on the Great Shulahravauker, visit www.amerelium.net

...and remember, always; bite, THEN think...

[snickel]

Information flow... it trickles from above (at best), while those below (those that are dependent on that information), crave for more.

A community manager is an intermediate -- responsible to the company for channeling information, keeping things back while at the same time trying to give the information the customers need as best he can. Unless he gets a gag order from above. So a community manager is in the know, but does not tell everything.

A moderator is told at best what the company decides to tell him/her. His/her job is to enforce the forum rules. Nothing more.

Nevertheless, a moderator might have some way to communicate with those who decide on the fate of the game. Peaches has used this (or tried to use it) to make acute problems known to them, like shard breakdowns. I think it is a fine thing she did this, but it was a mistake to make this known on the forum. Her motive, as I know her, was to give people hope, to let them know that the problems are worked on.

But she is not part of the EII company and noone there is bound to give her any information at all. The fact that she can sometimes tell them that something is amiss does not mean that they tell her anything. To ask her for information is to misunderstand her role and her powers.

We need a community manager.