Water Breathing & Undersea Cities

[Starmind]

Approximately a third of Istaria is wasted space as it contains only the oceans. A relatively easy way to expand Horizons without increasing a whole lot of server load would be to deepen the oceans and add underwater cities. Of course, waterbreathing would have to be introduced (Possibly making the Helian Dragons able to breathe underwater as the Lunus overpower them with melee already) Swimming for bipeds could be treated similar to flying for dragons as far as the controls and mechanisms go. Creatures underwater would add a whole new dimension to the game also.
Hate to hop onto the whole "But the other MMORPGS..." bandwagon, but it is true that most other MMORPGs have underwater creatures and combat.
Just a thought.

[Kala]

Of course, waterbreathing would have to be introduced (Possibly making the Helian Dragons able to breathe underwater as the Lunus overpower them with melee already)

Lunus don't overpower Helians. The only significant difference between the factions is the ancient crystal.

Regardless, even if Lunus DID overpower Helians, having some dragons able to get to some places other dragons can't is a Bad Thing. There needs to be a balancing factor there. Balance combat positives with combat negatives. Balance transportation/travel positives with like negatives.

[Silverblaze]

This one might get modded I didnt read all the forum rules I'm ok with it getting the mod stick.


I hear way too much stuff about underwater crap and boats. These things make flying even less useful. With setsacle exisiting its already got a limited appeal.

So to sum up my opinions of water effects/races/swimming in this game....

*pees in the pool*

I'm out

[Justa Mirage]

I would go with swimming and underwater adventures

Sea Bass with frikkin laser beams on their head comes to mind.

Swimming speed could be 50% (or limits movement to 50) of your normal speed (like dragging a disk) or some speed limiting factor so Dragons who soar over the sky will still have an advantage crossing over water, as they can fly at full speed under water already.

Yes Istaria has lots of water areas for possible use as a quest story arc.

[Dracana]

An interesting suggestion but I am curious as to how much realism you would want to put in this. Yes I know it's a fantasy MMO with flying dragons but bipeds being able to swim forever in the sea without any consequences is just kinda ridiculous.

Also, can anyone at any level swim or do they need a special item or class to go for a dip?

Just some stuff to think about.

[Justa Mirage]

Yes I know it's a fantasy MMO with flying dragons but bipeds being able to swim forever in the sea without any consequences is just kinda ridiculous..

Yes I know it's a fantasy MMO with swimming Bi-peds but Dragons able to fly forever in the air without any consequences is just kinda ridiculous

*grins and runs away at 180 (providing I am on a road and have a potion)!!*

[Deth]

Yes I know it's a fantasy MMO with swimming Bi-peds but Dragons able to fly forever in the air without any consequences is just kinda ridiculous

Not really being as dragons have to have magic to fly, at least by the books I have read as a dragons body short of a few thought on using heated air or other lighter then air filled gas bladders, they flying for every is not ridiculous. On the swimming forever part so it is part of the magic of the magic breathing potion it is not a big deal.

[Justa Mirage]

Oh I know Deth, I was just pulling the leg of a fellow dragon

The old joke, "I just flew in from Seattle..." comes the obvious reply of "Boy your arms must be tired"

[Jaraiden]

If I were to invoke lore, dragons don't do water, nor Saris . . . . now them gnomes very likely with their tinkering and all.

But bipeds swinging weapons and shields and armor . . . . don't see it. Swimming with weapons and shields and armor . . . . impossible. Now perhaps in the air filled sections of underwater cities . . . . hmmm.

I see this as something very low on priorities.

but it is true that most other MMORPGs have underwater creatures and combat.

I'm not up to the underwater content of other MMORPGs, so please give examples to spur more ideas.

[pevil2000]

Mixed feelings on this...

Jaraiden, Wow and EQ2 both treat them very similarly. In EQ2 you can go swimming on the surface and also dive, preferably with the help of an underwater breathing spell (like my Warden has *pats*) or possibly witha potion? Unsure of that. In theory you can go forever, except that they actually have invisible walls not too far out from shore, so you can't go out too far. They generally have things like Octopus, Crab and Fish for you to kill, plus perhaps the odd aquatic race.

Wow treats it much the same, but they definately have potions/spells/one racial ability that let you breath underwater x amount of time. They tend to let you swim quite a lot further out (though I would assume there are points you can't go past, such as where the boats you travel on swap to loading screens before coming back into the other continent). They again tend to have Fish, Crabs and Aquatic humanoids to kill, either just living there on the bottom of the water/at the waters edge or even in old shipwrecks. It is pretty fun to dive down to a shipwreck and see what you can find in it.

Plus theres Darkfall which is 'in development', and in theory will be very hz-ish in the sense of it will be a seamless world. ATM all I know about that is that you will be able to swim/dive in it, but they are going to have ships (and sea battles!) because like hz (and UO), so much of the world is water that it's a shame to waste that space.

I think if they were to do it, make it so we can only swim a short way out underwater. In theory let us swim quite a long way out, but we can only dive for a short, limited amount of time (in WoW, depending of course on level/class/damage done, its usually enough to dive, kill one normal mob, and resurface). Could perhaps have as the next big world event, an 'Atlantis' type city rediscovered. Crafters would all have to pull together to rebuild the portal to the lost city, while adventurers had to go rediscover the recipe/ingredients for a water breathing pot/spell for bipeds to use (dragons could either do same thing or perhaps have a mini-khutit type quest that gives them a water form). Then it would simply be that you can portal to 'Atlantis' and go do quests there. I don't think I'd like for everyone to just be able to swim out over the entire sea, but I do enjoy it in things like WoW and EQ2, it makes a nice change. Heck even if it was only inland lakes that you could swim it, it would make it a bit more interesting, and a great way to chill out after a long days killing. But please, no skinny dipping gnomes!

[Sunuke]

You mean finding the hidden gnome city, those lil kritters have been hiding under a magically created bubble under water so they won't be attacked by the WA as they can't get there.

Confectioner specialists over there with master confectioner formula's

Fat gnomes as they have been stuffing themselves with food all the time and haven't been getting enough exersize.

After this discovery the master gnome is even able to teach dragons in kuhtit for to become confectioner as the gnome got fooled by the dragons making him think they were bipeds.

[Avalina]

You know, I think this is a really good idea. And maybe to keep people from swimming all around the world at a certain distance out maybe have a shark attack the swimmer. Or maybe some other type of sea going creature. I'd be excited to participate in an event along these lines. Good idea!

[pevil2000]

Dragons of course could be the easiest ones to limit; have a timer that if they dont leave the water before it runs out, their firebreath gets put out

[Solitaire]

Hmmm... Underwater critters to fight... Maybe these...? But don't get your hopes up, that guy is from a Horizons that never was and never will be. Fortunately.

[Kala]

Hmmm... Underwater critters to fight... Maybe these...? But don't get your hopes up, that guy is from a Horizons that never was and never will be. Fortunately.

You know...I think I might actually be willing to play one of those. No, not getting my hopes up or anything. (I have no expectations that anything underwater will be added in, oh say, the next 5 years...if at all.) But it looks neat!

[Dhalin]

If I were to invoke lore, dragons don't do water, nor Saris . . . . now them gnomes very likely with their tinkering and all.

But bipeds swinging weapons and shields and armor . . . . don't see it. Swimming with weapons and shields and armor . . . . impossible. Now perhaps in the air filled sections of underwater cities . . . . hmmm.

I see this as something very low on priorities.

I'm not up to the underwater content of other MMORPGs, so please give examples to spur more ideas.

This guy wins the thread. It is one of the things that I laugh at in WoW. Swinging a weapon underwater is next-to-impossible, as water is *much* thicker than air, thus, impedes arm movements. There is a reason why Dungeons and Dragons has all underwater species using but a few weapons, Most of which happen to involve Thrusting Weapons, and/or Crossbow-type weapons (harpoons, anyone?)

The action of a Thrust with a pointed weapon, is not hindered by the water as much as a wide swing attempting to swing hard enough (and fast enough) to get a blade to cut, or a bludgeon to impact hard enough on the target to cause actual damage.

It is laughable to think if you could possibly do this while submerged under water. Daggers could work, as they are a short blade that could be used for thrusting, but really, I don't think you're going to take a claymore, or an axe, or a warhammer and do much of anything underwater.

As to wearing any sort of armor, this is equally as laughable. Plate Mail can weigh up to 50lbs, a full suit of plate armor can weigh nearly 80. Thinking you can swim while wearing 80lbs of Iron, or Steel, or whatever metal is laughable in itself.

Again, Dungeons and Dragons, especially 3.5 Edition, has some very nice rules and opinions of underwater combat, and how equipment reacts to water. I suggest reading some d20 rules on that, for those who are interested in learning more.

[Dhalin]

Hmmm... Underwater critters to fight... Maybe these...? But don't get your hopes up, that guy is from a Horizons that never was and never will be. Fortunately.

I could see these types of mobs being found *near* water, as Water Golems are. These types of mobs Could slither up on land to do battle with something that enraged it, maybe.

[Zexoin]

I could see these types of mobs being found *near* water, as Water Golems are. These types of mobs Could slither up on land to do battle with something that enraged it, maybe.

Lamurians were supposed to be a playable race, not a mob. Though it would be nice if we can't play them, to have them as monsters to kill.

[Menkure]

Actually having some knowledge on the subject... here's a few things to consider:

There are actually swimming animations for many of the races.. even flying animations for the biped races (which are both not used currently in the game).

While this could be implemented, it would take a considerable amount of code work to do it right.

Because the server-end does not have a 3d world simulation on its end (everything is 2d.. the server relies on Z-axis positioning from the client), a good majority of the code work for swimming would be client-side. The current client has a lot of bugs and issues which are being worked on right now.. taking time away from that to add new code, which could b0rk things up even more might not be the best idea - ESPECIALLY for such a small team.

Another factor to consider is art assets. Currently, there is nothing underwater but land.. and that is it. Even if underwater swimming is added, where would you go? What would you do? There are no shipwrecks or ancient underseas ruins, nor any monsters underwater to fight (and even then the swimming animation is just swimming.. there isn't any swimming/combat animations).

Thus, Virtrium would need to hire on several full-time artists.. I do say Several (at least 3 or 4) based on my experience in art and game design. To do it right, and do it professionally, a single artist would take far too long to churn out the many kinds of artwork that would be needed. As an example, modeling an underwater shipwreck.. fully textured and in detail, and testing it on a test server to make certain there are no issues game-wise (such as finding places where a player may get stuck on, and thus could drown), then fixing any such issues, could take me a month or more. And that is just one item to add to a huge world that has room for hundreds, if not thousands more items..

For a single artist, such a job could be very daunting, and even seem next to impossible.

If Virtrium were to hire an artist (which I am certain they will.. just only a matter of time when), there are many many more things which their time could be spent on which will benefit our world. Creating more monsters, different land elements, and even dungeons (like that which was being built in the eastern deadlands), or creating the many art assets which were planned for the expansion Tulga announced last year, such as furniture and new housing/building structures, would be much higher on the priority list.

-Menkure

[Spirit]

hmm... the prospect of underwater cities is one to get the imagination going for sure, and I'd like to see it. In WoW when you're on the Deeprun Train you go under a lake and see a few things. The first time I saw it I was like "bl00dy hell" how do you get to that.

However there is quite a lot of land that has basically nothing in it... and I also like the idea of underground cities and dungeons. I can't think of a fantasy book I've read recently that hasn't had some nasty tense section set underground with nasty foes around. This would possibly be easier to implement in the short term. However I definitely think you should float instead of falling straight through water, even if there's no content in there to justify swimming. It just looks better to a new player lol!

Rakku