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Thread: Billing Feedback

  1. #61

    Default Re: Billing Feedback

    I don't understand what all the information means. Currently we have two key codes under one account which gives us up to 2 plots/lairs and 10 toons total for all shards. At least as I understand it. We have been paying for the two accounts for about 3 years. My hub is in the military, so we might have been able to get the one account and one free account, but never tried as so many who did try to change their billing got characters lost or inaccessable.
    I think that everyone should be able to own a plot or lair if they have a paid account. There are more than enough plots to go around, and if the lairs were actually owned by paying players and playing players, then I think there might be enough of them, but, more lairs wouldn't hurt. Also, some larger plot sizes in some areas, as some have tonnes of little plots that are unowned, and a few owned little plots that they would like to expand.
    Shoulder buddies/pets are fun and cute, and I do know there are a few floating around out there, more would be nice, but a quest to get them, or a special/quest to receive a form would be fun. And shoulder buddies for dragons would be fun too.
    Payment.... hmmm, An increase in price would not be too bad, however, it may not really be necessary, if everyone who is currently playing were actually paying. I think, before the prices are changed, an actual accounting of who has a paid account and who has not, should be run. Notes sent out to those who have not paid and see if they would like to continue their subscription.
    I know there are a few players who have played since premerge of the servers, and have remained loyal through all the changes, if you were to have an "Ancient" class of payment, I would think perhaps it would be better served to check with the old players and give them a special bonus, but keep the pricing the same and make the title more an honorary title. Anyway... this is some of my thoughts.
    Tempests

  2. #62
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    Default Re: Billing Feedback

    Well, here's my $0.02:

    At the height of my participation, I had 4 accounts. The primary reason for that was plots. As GM of Erus Ex Istaria, I had an obligation to hold some of the key plots in our guild communities, so I had to have extra accounts to do so. My 4th account was simply to allow me to hold a lair for myself. Anyway, that's my primary reason for multiple accounts.

    My secondary reason for multiple accounts is storage. Yes, I know, even with guild hall plots full of silos and storage buildings, etc, there just wasn't enough storage. Especially when you are acting as the Librarian, materials master, etc for a big guild. The worst part of this is stack limits. I can get tons and tons of bulk, but stacks are the real limiting factor to storage. You can store 9999 units of the biggest thing in-game, but you can't store more than a few hundred different things, between vaults and plot structures. Many things are individual (ie, non-stackable), armor pieces, jewelry, keepsakes from quests (my adult statue from my RoP, for example), et cetera. I had multiple mule characters whose only reason for existing was to have more vault space. It certainly was a serious PITA to constantly do inventory management.

    With the amount of storage available in modern server equipment, there is really no excuse for severely limited storage space anymore. Yeah, I know the HZ servers are the same nearly 3 year old ones which have whatever space they have, but storage upgrades are cheap, and with the servers nearing the end of their normal service life, strong consideration should be given to easing some of the storage restrictions as the equipment is replaced/updated.

    Lastly, the last reason I had multiple accounts was for concurrent logins. I dual-boxed a good bit of the time in my last year or so, and I occasionally had folks who would try out HZ on one of my other accounts.

    Horizons is an older game now. It doesn't have that "new" smell anymore; in fact, it smells like it has been dredged up from the sewers, which is pretty much the case. Many folks are put off by the simple fact that it was a stinker to start out with, and went seriously downhill from there. As such, attempting to squeeze more money from people, despite whatever justification you make, just won't fly well with most of them. You have to remember that you're not marketing to a new crowd here; beyond the fact you can't market HZ to the "new" crowd (read: WoW, EQ2, GW, VG, etc) you're left to enticing old folks to come back and bring their friends. The past is already a bitter enough pill to swallow without a price hike coating on top of it.

    I think it is a good idea that this new system be designed around some a la carte deal, which allows folks to tailor the specifics of their accounts to their individual needs. I also think that you should have some basic package deals which are consistent with the existing rates/features. Price hikes on the same exact feature set will NOT be welcomed.

    Here's my analysis of the pricing:
    Code:
    $13 a month (Yeah, I know, it's $12.95, but let's drop the "market pricing theory" crap for a minute) gets you:
    5 character slots        -- I evaluate these at $1/month each
    1 plot slot                -- I evaluate this at $5/month each
    1 concurrent login        -- I evaluate this at $3/month each
    
    Another way to look at it is from a base+add costing, which would be broken out something like so:
    $5.00    -- Base Account Fee
    $3.00    -- Plot Fee
    $2.50    -- 5 character slots at $0.50 each
    $2.50    -- 1 concurrent login
    
    In my case, I was paying 4 x $12.95 = $51.80 a month for this (values in parenthesis are for base+add method):
    $20.00 ($20.00)    -- 4 plot slots
    $10.00 ($ 5.00)    -- 10 character slots (2 active, played characters; 8 closets)
    $ 6.00 ($ 5.00)    -- 2 concurrent logins (I rarely, if ever, used the other two)
           ($ 5.00    -- Base account cost)
    $36.00 ($35.00) per month actual value I was getting for $51.80 a month
    I knew I was paying for much more than I was using. Having the ability to trim off what I didn't need was something I often lamented after back in the day.

    As for the character / storage situation, I think that offering an additional "more vault storage/stacks on a character" option would be nice to have. Something that Guild Wars does is their vault box is shared amongst all characters on the same account. I'm not sure it is technically feasible for this to be done, considering things like bound items and so forth, and it is a "feature" request; something which should have a very low priority right now. However, the ability to add some amount of extra storage to individual characters would be a seriously nice thing as an account option.

    A la carte options generally have a higher cost if you pieced them out individually, so it might be preferable to make up some "package deals" which would actually cost more if built a la carte from the ground up, but you give a discount for certain package deals, like the "Basic", "Gifted (Standard)" and "Ancient (Enthusiast)" deals.

    Let's assume the following, then:
    Code:
    $ 8.95    -- fee for "Basic" package deal
    $ 5.00    -- Base account fee
    $ 3.00    -- 3 character slots x $1.00 each
    $ 5.00    -- concurrent connection
    $ 4.00-    -- package deal discount (31% savings)
    
    $12.95    -- fee for "Standard" package deal
    $ 5.00    -- Base account fee
    $ 5.00    -- plot slot
    $ 5.00    -- 5 character slots @$1.00/ea
    $ 5.00    -- concurrent connection
    $ 7.00-    -- package deal discount (35% savings)
    
    $24.95    -- fee for "Enthusiast" package deal
    $ 5.00    -- base account fee
    $10.00    -- 2 plot slots @$5.00/ea
    $10.00    -- 10 character slots @$1.00/ea
    $10.00    -- 2 concurrent connections @$5.00/ea
    $10.00-    -- package deal discount (40% savings)
    
    Extras:
    $5.00    -- each additional plot slot
    $5.00    -- each additional concurrent connection
    $1.00    -- each additional character slot
    $0.50    -- each additional multiple of vault storage for one character (ie, whatever you have, you get 100% more per each level of this purchased)
    Additional bonuses for package deals are at your discretion; shoulder buddies, collectibles, whatever. Freebies as enticements are always good. Oh, only give hatchies as shoulder buddies if Dragons can have elves, dwarves, gnomes, etc as shoulder buddies, too. Personally, I would rather not see shoulder buddies of any of the existing player races in the game, but that's just me; not really all that special, and open for abuse.

  3. #63

    Default Re: Billing Feedback

    Hmm, not really sure what to do. Dont mind the gifted but I hope it is the 14 dollars they want to charge for it. 19 would be me not able to afford to play after it is converted to canada moneys...

    How about an account plan for existing players at the current sub cost but same benefits as gifted...? And for ancient, what in the world do you mean by shoulder buddy?


  4. #64

    Default Re: Billing Feedback

    On a tangent, that whole non-player model mob thing... is that really necessary anymore? As complicated as HZ is I doubt any one of us woudn't be able to tell a fellow player from a red tagged human labelled 'Bandit' dressed i a deep forest outfit hitting us with a sword... >.>

  5. #65

    Default Re: Billing Feedback

    I dont see a problem with the way it looks, however some ideas to include it large subs.

    1. Vault size increases
    2. Shoulder pets (what ever floats your boat)
    3. Ancient subs possible gate on plot
    4. Larger plots for ancient subs possible small keep


    do as you will the wife and I will take the basic x2 and play like we always have.
    Warsong
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    Don't cry because its over,Smile because it happend

  6. #66

    Default Re: Billing Feedback

    RuneDragoon. A shoulder buddy is basically a "pet" that you equip in your shoulder slot and visably sits on your shoulder in game.
    Nayuaka and Nayukhuut. Freelance Helian lorekeepers of Chaos.

  7. #67

    Default Re: Billing Feedback

    Just my $0.02. (Been playing about 6 months now)

    I understand the need to fix billing but a price increase at the current time may be hard to justify as it will result in a number of players leaving and may prevent a number of players from returning. Right now word of mouth is Horizons best marketing and a price increase at this point won't encourage people to return. Too many promises have been made and broken in the past and some may feel this is just another repeat of past events.

    We know that money is needed to allow Horizons to grow but a possible increase of 55% in subscription cost is too much. My suggestion would be to if possible leave costs where they are for a while at least allow the player base to grow and let players see updates on the live client and/or a world event before increaseing cost and even then more then $1 at would probalby drive away players and potential players.

  8. #68
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    Default Re: Billing Feedback

    To me it seems people are still intent on bouncing around the large price with little features. As much as I would like to see the game live, I realise that having a few players paying a jacked up price might work for a littlewhile..maybe. There is also opening up to a wider audience and attacting more people, in turn generates more income. Everything I have said is not what I want to see for my account spicificly. What do I want to see in specific? The game grow. Do the research and then do the math. In the mix you may even find a few /free/ mmo games to play that are just as good as Horizons is now. Sometimes better.
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  9. #69

    Default Re: Billing Feedback

    I really like the idea Pharcellus was talking about (assuming I understand correctly), allowing players to customize their accounts with little add-ons if they wished to.

    At the same time, you could make your subscription as small as you wanted, for people who don't have as much time to play, or perhaps have less money with which to pay, thus enabling them to continue playing instead of needing to quit altogether.

    One thing I would like to ask is would there be a set amount of time during which deleted characters could be recovered, or is deletion immediate and permanent?

  10. #70

    Default Re: Billing Feedback

    greetings , well this thread has certainly turned a very positive week into turmoil . So for what its worth heres my opinion. Im not sure why the former biling and rules are so bad., they seemed to work fine and are not the reason the billing collapsed, for time being just return to old way. Second im not on board with any leveled or tier pay system , buying your way to the top is the way in real not in istaria . And although im capable and willing to pay more money to play, some are not , and certainly feel that before asked too , would like to see game improvements first and perhaps maybe a glimpse of some sort of plan. In closing i welcome new ownership , thank them for reopening dialogue(sorely missed this past year). And may the future of istaria return to its former glory and the aegis fear the gifted again.

  11. #71
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    Default Re: Billing Feedback

    I agree with Teto as well. He lists a few points I have been saying and quite well too.

    For Favoran and the many others that want to add on to their account, there are other games that do that. However! The things you can add on, as important as they are, do not break the gameplay for others. Such as extra character slots, or maybe one extra plot of land (There are lairs.. and then there are plots two types of land to construct in the game.) or some other small yet helpful thing. But, by buying titles, gear, items, or anything else related to that would turn alot of people off by far, indeed.
    We seek only that is wich in our hearts, for no greater foe then ourselves there is.
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    Learn, share, grow, ascend..

  12. #72

    Default Re: Billing Feedback

    I'll throw my two cents in here too.

    "Average" MMO pricing for Horizons will not work. Horizons was killed a few times over from shoddy first release, chapter 13, "The dude's", and now Virtrium.

    The price will most likely have to go way down to get anyone to try it.

    Why pay $12.95 for a game that has been passed hands so often.

    (Edit by Velea: Kumu, remember to keep it PG rated, please.)
    Last edited by Velea; August 26th, 2007 at 03:24 AM. Reason: Inappropriate analogy removed to maintain PG rated forum

  13. #73

    Default Re: Billing Feedback

    I agree with Teto as well. And quite frankly I'm surprised people aren't asking more questions about this. Serious questions? Why are you talking "more money" a couple weeks into ownership of the game?? How does that build a trust relationship with the community here? Why not reinstate the regular billing system, then do something for while like.....fix things and show us that you are not what we just got through dealing with for 12 months. I realize that you're communicating, and that's a noticeable start, but I don't think that sets things up for "let's talk money!" No, how about let's not. Let's talk about getting people who want to pay, paying and being able to actually give with the regular billing system and then in a couple months talk about "we might have to raise sub fees."

    I don't know, it seems rather ill timed to me, rather suspicious, and doesn't really scream "trust us!"

  14. #74

    Default Re: Billing Feedback

    Quote Originally Posted by RuneDragoon View Post
    Hmm, not really sure what to do. Dont mind the gifted but I hope it is the 14 dollars they want to charge for it. 19 would be me not able to afford to play after it is converted to canada moneys...
    I was just thinking about this actually due to this debate. Here's how I look at it:

    4 years ago:
    70 US cents to the Canadian Dollar
    12.95/0.70 = $18.50 Canadian

    Today:
    95 US cents to the Canadian Dollar
    14.95/0.95 = ~$15.75 Canadian

    So even if they raise the price of the Standard Accounts (which is what we all have right now) to 15 dollars, we are still paying less than we were at launch.

    Course people in the US will be screwed. People in the EU should be doing almost as well as we are though, assuming that they would be charged in US dollars.

  15. #75

    Default Re: Billing Feedback

    as I said if I were looking at playing Horizons and saw a potential price tag of over $14.95 my expectation would be that this MMO would be better than what I get for $14.95 elsewhere.

    Right now it isn't and a new player will just end up being disappointed. Which will in turn result in a cancelled account and someone who will never ever look back.

    if anything they should lower it to $9.95 and then give the option for a subscriber to add the bits they want. However i think people are underestimating what their system will be able to do. Its not so easy just adding bits to an account like that without them being set as packages.

    So my suggestion is to

    lower the monthly cost to $9.95 give a slightly better deal to prepayers. Then have someone be able to add UP TO ONE ADDITIONAL plot per account. Allow an option to purchase more consignment slots.

    Problem is most plots would be gone like that. What would be left is the garbage no one wants. So then you have new people with no shot at a plot and likewise a cancelled account.

    No easy solution here. I suggest keeping it as is.

  16. #76

    Default Re: Billing Feedback

    My turn... I TRIED to weed through many of these replies and after unwinding my spinning head, here's my suggestion...

    Base price of subscription (comes with one concurrent log-in...you have to have one included...how ELSE are you going to be able to play?): $5.00

    3 characters automatically come with each account : $5.00.

    Each Additional Character : $1.00

    Each Plot : $3.00 (up to a maximum of 3)

    Consignment stays as currently configured.

    Shoulder buddy $0.00 ??? (what the heck is this for anyway?!?!?)

    Using this algorithm...

    An account as it currently stands: $15.00 (base price/one plot/5 characters)
    Entry level account (3 characters/no plot) $10.00
    Entry level account w/plot : $13.00
    Maximum account (5 characters/ 3 plots): $21.00


    I am not sure how to price the ability for an additional concurrent log-in, and I cannot figure out how that would work anyway. Can you control two different characters from one computer with one monitor and one keyboard at the same time??? If you need two computers to play two characters then you may as well stick with two accounts (just as it is now) in order to play more than one character.

    Just my thoughts...things stay pretty much the same, with about a $2.00 increase per month from current rates (inflation); and the ability to start out with an "entry-level account" until you are hooked and want more, more, MORE!!! mwaahhahaha...

    Sorry...

    I think offering a range of accounts from $10-$21 is reasonable, and not too cumbersome. Perhaps as new programming is developed other "add-ons" can be offered for increased $$

  17. #77
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    Default Re: Billing Feedback

    I agree. I kinda seen this one comming in a strage ironic way. And, a standard mmo game fee isnt worth it yeah but.. it is acceptable to me and some others, but is still pushing it. If I had a choice, what would I pay? Heh..

    Anyways. This is still in set with trying to open it up to more players to generate more income. We all know mmo games need income, but finding the means of doing that without killing the playerbase is not hard...
    We seek only that is wich in our hearts, for no greater foe then ourselves there is.
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  18. #78

    Default Re: Billing Feedback

    I've been here since beta, currently have 4 accounts, 4 plots.
    I have to agree with the concept leave it like it is and perhaps raise the
    subscription a buck.

  19. #79

    Default Re: Billing Feedback

    PS
    One more thing...offering reduced rates for 6 month and 1 year subscriptions is ALWAYS a good idea...maybe...ummm...

    Basic $10/mo $55/6month $100/year
    Maximum $21/month $115/6month $210/year

    and other amounts in between

  20. #80

    Default Re: Billing Feedback

    K, I've thought about this a little bit more. I agree with Tryagain, and several others who have said the same thing:

    If you cannot put together a system that can add bits and pieces to the account (basic account: 8.95. Each plot? 5 dollars, max 2 per account... etc), then you cannot raise the price, in spite of your need to increase the income of the game in order to support it.

    For me, I'd say this game is worth about 9 bucks a month (read 8.95, not 9.95. And we can tell the difference between the two:P). Maybe less. I know that the going rate is 14.95, but that is for games that are actually complete, not half finished betas.

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