Has Order become stuffy?

[Mimir]

I wasn't going to write this but circumstances mandate that I do so.

I have a few questions as I may be the one totally off base.

1. Does role playing in the dragon channel allow one to be rude?
2. Is there a list of how one HAS to chat in the dragon channel?
3. Leet speak is not allowed, but I was told today that LOL is not now allowed.

The use of (( or [[ or {{ is accepted across the various times I play, but I can not find that it is mandated in the Order Shard EULA or rules of behavior.

I think the channel needs to be monitored by GMs as new players are being chastised for not asking questions in a "proper manner" but if the same question is asked in the same way a few hours earlier or later it is acceptable.


There have been players who have been chastised for responding to questions the exact same way on the forums as I am seeing in the dragon channel. And it is accepted, in game. (at least openly) Moo!


I want to see Horizons succeed, I want to continue to play here on the server I selected long ago. I AM getting tired of getting told to leave the server when I tell the RPers to back off a bit on the new players for not conforming to their particular idea of role playing.

[Lunarya]

I wasn't going to write this but circumstances mandate that I do so.

I have a few questions as I may be the one totally off base.

1. Does role playing in the dragon channel allow one to be rude?
2. Is there a list of how one HAS to chat in the dragon channel?
3. Leet speak is not allowed, but I was told today that LOL is not now allowed.

The use of (( or [[ or {{ is accepted across the various times I play, but I can not find that it is mandated in the Order Shard EULA or rules of behavior.

I think the channel needs to be monitored by GMs as new players are being chastised for not asking questions in a "proper manner" but if the same question is asked in the same way a few hours earlier or later it is acceptable.


There have been players who have been chastised for responding to questions the exact same way on the forums as I am seeing in the dragon channel. And it is accepted, in game. (at least openly) Moo!


I want to see Horizons succeed, I want to continue to play here on the server I selected long ago. I AM getting tired of getting told to leave the server when I tell the RPers to back off a bit on the new players for not conforming to their particular idea of role playing.

I agree with this, even though I am not on Order, I have heard things about this. People might think that everyone should roleplay all proper like "I find that man very attractive" but someone could design their character to talk like.. "Daaaanng, look at that sexy beast!" and they might get yelled at for 'not roleplaying'

[Mimir]

P.S. The Moo was not rude btw. ([{ By the Way}])

[Tcei]

1.)It shouldnt, but are a few who do use Rp as an excuse. Keep in mind also that some rudeness you may witness may be the result of past story lines where those involved are/were enemies.

2.)If you're talking about the dragon language, noone has to learn it, but many of us do use it. Feel free to ask what a certain word means if you need. Other than that. I think Dragon channel is mostly rp, generaly its a good idea to use <({[ ect to denote ooc stuff but there's no reason anyone should jump on you for it.

3.) Leet speak is evil I hate it! But regular internet speak (LoL,LMAO,BRB,BRT,AFK) I dont have an issue with when used in ooc brackets. I dont like it when someone uses it in their RP, (I.E. something funny happens and player a says "Lol look what Lan did! *points*" But Im not gona correct them, its their choice as to how they rp.

That being said I have two things I need to bring up.
First OOC in an rp setting is IMPORTANT
I know its hard to believe, but even the best of us get caught up in our rp, and sometimes we take rp into realms that border on ooc things ( what level/season you should ascend anyone?) that means we should make efforts especialy when getting into rp that involves intense emotions such as anger,lust,love ect to stop every once and awhile and say things like no hard feelings oocly right? Or you're ok with where this is going still? This helps so much to avoid people getting upset oocly because someone went to far Icly.

Second: Noone has the right to tell some one else how to rp!
I came from a group that was very strict about how you rp'd in Eq and Wow, and would frequently do this. Believe me these folks would outright /ignore 3/4th of the dragon channel because of rp that's in there. Its part of the reason why I dont play there anymore. A couple good exampls of things they'd try to correct if they'd rp with you are:
useing *an emote inside these stars* while chating face to face with them, in channel it'd be ok.

Another one, and one that is still a habit of mine (but I dont correct those who do it), is /emote does something "says something". In the group I was with it should be /emote does something. /say something.
Example of things that'd get you on their /ignore lists and one most dragons do, is coming from a place that's not specifically part of the game lore (Is Lan the only dragon that's actualy from Istaria?)

Things like this arent right. Not everyone wants to be a hardcore rper 100% of the time. Not everyone can. For some of us, me included, we make a character that we like, but just cant seem to get in the head of enough to really rp well. That doesnt mean we should be treated poorly.

*ponders* hmm...that's all I really can think of right now...therewas something else but I forgot

[CallakDW]

I think the channel needs to be monitored by GMs as new players are being chastised for not asking questions in a "proper manner" but if the same question is asked in the same way a few hours earlier or later it is acceptable.

Hmm, what is considered a "proper manner" I do believe I saw one very poorly mannered dragon whelp in the channel yesterday and the conversation went somthing like this:

Me in response to a comment: ..Sounds like a proper Lunis.
Whelp: What is lunis?
{....doesn't recieve an immediate answer.}
Whelp: WHAT IS LUNIS????
Another dragon: perhaps you should ask an Ancient?
(pause)
Whelp: I ASKED SO AND SO AND HE WOULDN'T TELL MEE!!!

To me that was a bit of rudeness both IC and OOC, and honestly I let him sit for a while before I relented and gave him the info he requested. But that is the clasic alienating behavior that you usually see in digital comic strips, pretty soon we will be getting the "!!!!111!!!!1111!!!!" finishing touch.

[Tcei]

I've noticed things like that more in MarketPlace. Some Whelp as you call em will ask a question, then before anyone can answer ask again in all caps, and just get progressivly ruder.

[Mimir]

Hmm, what is considered a "proper manner" I do believe I saw one very poorly mannered dragon whelp in the channel yesterday and the conversation went somthing like this:

Me in response to a comment: ..Sounds like a proper Lunis.
Whelp: What is lunis?
{....doesn't recieve an immediate answer.}
Whelp: WHAT IS LUNIS????
Another dragon: perhaps you should ask an Ancient?
(pause)
Whelp: I ASKED SO AND SO AND HE WOULDN'T TELL MEE!!!

To me that was a bit of rudeness both IC and OOC, and honestly I let him sit for a while before I relented and gave him the info he requested. But that is the clasic alienating behavior that you usually see in digital comic strips, pretty soon we will be getting the "!!!!111!!!!1111!!!!" finishing touch.

I agree that some new player's questions are asked in a totally BAD manner. CAPs are always unacceptable, and rude questions are pretty much easy to spot and are handled accordingly.

My point was that new players who ask legitimate questions not in a RP manner are being jumped. There is a time and place for correcting players, perhaps not by anyone other than a guild master, or a player that is considered a friend.

Again I may be off base, perhaps I just don't remember things being so strict. But as a rule the players that have been jumping players the most are themselves lower level players. I mean lower as in less than 50 seasons.

[Dremora]

First of all, when someone decides to create a character on the Order shard, the person should expect role play, obviously, and I would think the person would be there to role play as well. But I've noticed a few people who do nothing but chat OOC and some who are too lazy to type out complete words (i.e "u" instead of "you"). This to me is really irritating, but I don't think it calls for rudeness. Just politely send the person a tell instead of publicly humiliating them.

As for role playing being rude, I agree with Tcei in that it could be because of past conflicts or some other IC reason, and shouldn't be used as an excuse to attack the actual person. I've had Drae be mean or rude to other characters before, but outside of role play we get along fine. Just remember that it's all in good fun!

[Mimir]

... But I've noticed a few people who do nothing but chat OOC and some who are too lazy to type out complete words (i.e "u" instead of "you"). This to me is really irritating, but I don't think it calls for rudeness. Just politely send the person a tell instead of publicly humiliating them.

There you go, that is the answer I was looking for.

Just politely send the person a tell instead of publicly humiliating them.

Demora for Order president!

[Pharcellus]

I've been ambivalent about the issue of RP in a bot-moderated channel since they came about.

For one thing, you cannot enforce RP in a bot-moderated channel. Secondly, even player-moderated channels are difficult to manage, since there is no way to enforce moderator controls (when the last mod logs out of the channel/game, the eldest non-mod becomes a mod).

As such, RP in what amounts to a "public channel" is pretty much voluntary for everyone present. You either participate and ignore those who don't RP to your satisfaction, or don't participate and expect to get ignored by those that do. Tells are fine if you want to explain to someone why they are being ignored, and to educate them on proper channel etiquette, but chastising folks publicly OR privately never works well at all.

Callak brought up an interesting way of looking at it to Maltavorn last night.. that it is so refreshing to speak with others face-to-face, instead of relying on those silly crystal balls all the time. It is kinda silly that we all essentially have group telepathy powers, but I guess it could be RPed as one side effect of being Gifted. Brain-wave radio 4tw!

All-in-all, the best way to deal with people who break the imbued-in-stone rules (no leet-speak, no non-RP or stolen names, etc) is to a) report them, b) try to educate them in private, and c), if you must, put them on your ignore list. It may not be the easiest way, but it avoids the vast majority of the unnecessary drama.

[Arzel Rashemi]

Just politely send the person a tell instead of publicly humiliating them.

Exactly. There's no reason or need to scream at them in any channel. More importantly if you are going to send that person a tell, then any player should mind some amount of manners. I've known quite a few Rp'ers who sometimes just don't feel like Rp'ing that day or just don't particularly want to get into anything really deep. We've all had days like that. But screaming at them in a tell, in a chat channel, in any form to 'Quit and leave the server' or 'Not to play on Order' is also rude. Perhaps more so than the individual who breaks character or is ooc in the first place.

I agree in that when an individual chooses Order, it is an RP server so expect to RP and see some RP. But it is important to act with some compassion and tolerance by understanding that individuals are entities of their own and can not be conformed to a singular vision of RP.

/snark on

As for those who would tell others 'leave the server' and 'get off Order' I say take a bit of ooc and go brb or afk and get a little lawlz in your day rather than harass a player with such rudeness because they don't conform. If its really that much of a problem there are more mature ways by making a formal complaint.

/snark off

[Shian]

Some of us are just not as skilled... or rusty from the other worlds we hail from. There are some days where it is more difficult to RP than others and yes, there are some days where it feels like a 'screw it'

We're having an entire conversation in OOC and having to add (()) for evey question or respose, dosen't it just make more sense to just convert to OOC for the duration of the conversation?

[awdz]

We're having an entire conversation in OOC and having to add (()) for evey question or respose, dosen't it just make more sense to just convert to OOC for the duration of the conversation?

Perhaps it would be more polite to move the conversation to a private chat, you can create them anytime - particularly if it is a public RP channel and someone indicates they do not appreciate the OOC nature of the conversation. Many come to Istaria to get away from the real world, getting reminded of it in a roleplay chat is like stepping in something unpleasant.

I have been reminded that when I am in a bad mood that it is not OK for me to inflict it on others. Why is OK to inflict a 'screw it' day on others who have done nothing to earn it?

[Tcei]

For me most of the time its pretty easy to tell what's ooc and not, and I do agree for extended ooc conversations it gets abit annoying to constantly have to type (()) at the end of each line. I typicly forget to after awhile. If you plan on carrying out a long ooc conversation with a few people it may be easiest just to creat a cahnnel for that so you dont have to worry. Really I dont think that having to add (()) is a requirement, but more of a common courtesy so others can better tell what is in character and what's not.

Also for me, a 'screw it' day is more like someone comes up to me and I just can't get in character or dont feel like it. In those times I'll just tell the person(s) that Im just not up for some RP atm, and either ask them to let me be for a bit or offer to let them hunt with me. Not everyone is a hardcore rper and likes to stay in character 100% of the time.

[Vaz]

I must admit, I'm probably part of the source of this topic. A while back I harassed Mimir about his undenoted OOC messages. I'm very glad he didn't leave Order, because I was completely out of line, and though I'm sorry about that, it was a valuable learning experience.

Speaking of lines, it's a very thin and blurry line between tolerating different playstyles and roleplaying styles, and tolerating something that just doesn't make any sense given that Order is an RP shard alongside the no-less-functional non-RP shard Chaos. But, regardless of one's personal belief about which side of that line some other person exists on, one has no right to attempt to impose that belief on the other.

Thus, I recommend this:
/ignore is one's friend. One should use it first if one finds oneself annoyed; self-help and all that. If the source of the annoyance is truly and broadly offensive, they will likely be expulsed by a general reaction involving more than a few people, or by someone reporting them.

-

The thing about OOC annotation, is that it's important if any semblance of order ( ) is to be maintained. Borrowing the example of a long OOC conversation, in cases where the subject of the discussion isn't clearly OOC except for the brackets/parentheses/what-have-you surrounding each of its constituent messages, if one or two people stop denoting for whatever reason, others may take that as a cue that it's time to stop too. Then we end up with a discussion that is either still OOC, appeared IC out of the blue and midway-through, or has always been IC...how is one to know? Furthermore, how is one to know if the subject being discussed was ever meant to be character knowledge or should be only player knowledge? At that point the opinions, attitudes, knowledge, personalities, etc. of players may accidentally be blended or perceived as blended with those of characters. Which can lead to...very messy situations...as well as having the potential to become a violation of respect for the possibility that someone's character is very different from their self...

-

By the way, (at least on my keyboard) it's easier to use brackets instead of double-parentheses, the former requiring no use of the shift key, therefore allowing an ingrained habit to be developed and utilised more smoothly.

[Mimir]

I would never use names, and it was not so much as MY OOC.

As I openly flaunt/taunt RPers and most time I get what I so richly deserve.

My point is that new players need to be handled a bit differently, in saying this I was made to well, not feel welcome on MY server.

My point was and still is that there has to be some way of getting what we all want out of our game play time.

Mine... being mostly a total butt head, you all RPing smooching and snuzzleing, and most importantly the new players made to feel as their play style on Order has a place.

Pretty much my RP style is that I am playing a make believe dragon, digging a make believe hole in the ground to make a make believe dragon house. And the occasional Glitttttts'''aaa mumble as the dragon who can't seem to learn dragon speak.

[Ssilmath]

While it isn't cool to harrass people who don't conform exactly to RP style speaking, is it ok for said people to harrass the RPers? Keep in mind that Order is an RP shard, and there is no reason not to RP on it. Saying things like "Dang, that dragon is a sexy beast" is perfectly fine, as are (Respectful) questions like "What is a Lunus?" or "How do I mine this copper?" Those are fine. Talking about anything not in the Istarian world isn't. The whole point of an RP server is to immerse yourself in the world, and it's incredibly disrespectful and irritating for somebody else to break that immersion. Use (()) or something similar to break that immersion, or go to Chaos to get your OOC jollies off. That's my view on it, take it as you will.

[Kumu Honua]

I never considered Dragon channel to be an AE/Verant/EI/V channel. It was started by a player, and usurped.

However, you must follow the rules. Which are really nearly non-existent.

[Frith-Rae]

OOC and RP should both be welcome in Dragon chat - and from my experiences usually are- as long as everyone is "behaving" (which to me is being respectful and informative but not outright rude unless it is CLEAR that they are IC)

There's been a switch from dragon chat being naturally OOC - as it started and as it always has been for me - to naturally IC for many players. However, whenever there was a statement made where it might have been confusing - I just ASK (are you IC right now or is that OOC).

I don't put () around my statements. I frequentlky switch from "ic" actions to OOC chat. Dragon chat was created for dragons to HELP and chat with Dragons (sometimes helping can't be done in IC speech alone). And as long as *I* am in there I will defend that premise to the death .

When in doubt - just ask. If you're needing to speak in OOC say so - if someone harrasses you because you're not RPing in dragon chat - report them and /ignore them. They really have no right to do so.

When I'm in there I"m talking as I"m talking - neither in nor truly out of character - just answering questions and talking. I don't act out scenarios - as public chat isn't the place for that. But I'm there to keep company and to answer questions of new players and dragons and such - so yes the helpfl spirit should always be there.

But some people are just goobers unfortunately.

Now IF you are IC and you are rude and being hateful - then you should expect the same back.

It blows my mind that pepole who are rude and mean IC expect peopel to just put up with it. Um no - it would be perfectlly naturally for my dragon to ignore someoen being rude to them - it would not be for me to put up with it.

So if you take that lien of playing - realize that it is a perfectly OK and natural IC response for noone to want to RP with you.

Natural consequences- get use to it.

[gopher65]

There are people out there who say "L-O-L" and "O-M-G" in real life. Maybe some like to role play such people? Who's to say they are wrong to do that?