Blasted spawn system is ****NO**** fun. FIX IT NOW!

[Vaz]

This is just the problem, we have yet to find a company to put this much effort into HZ. I have yet to see even as much $$ and blood poored into HZ as WoW or EQ2 has had yet. I'm convinced that the ideals behond HZ would overshadow either of those games if there was.

Sadly the ideals you mention would be promptly defenestrated if Horizons were to actually be acquired by a company with resources anywhere near that of Blizzard or SOE.

[Shian]

I doubt any MMO could topple the two powerhouses now. They are "finished" games- a rarity in MMOs where they can add instead of having to constantly tweak or rebalance thier systems. Thier age only adds to the pot.

I do not think that they are relevant to this conversation because of that.

While HZ has it's problems, much like the other games it still yet remains hidden to the eyes of the locust-like credit farmers.

And Casyle, there are many games that allow creatures to walk through walls- VG, SWG, SOR at one point. It is to prevent them from being stuck on terrain and players unable to reach the enemy they seek.

[CallakDW]

Toppling them isn't the goal, mabe becoming a competitor, even a lowly one, is. And stuff like this spawn probelm will never allow the game to come even close.

[Pharcellus]

Sadly the ideals you mention would be promptly defenestrated if Horizons were to actually be acquired by a company with resources anywhere near that of Blizzard or SOE.

and that would be the kiss of death in itself. That is one way to guarantee I would leave and never EVER come back.

No, there are other alternatives, but Vi is probably just gonna try and limp along with it as long as they can. I think it was even stated that their plan is just to massage Horizons into a niche game, not really try to make it mainstream again.

[Vaz]

I think it was even stated that their plan is just to massage Horizons into a niche game, not really try to make it mainstream again.

*ponders*

I don't think I can articulate how awesome that statement made me believe Virtrium to be, and how happy I was to read it, other than by saying I can't articulate it.

[CallakDW]

*ponders*

I don't think I can articulate how awesome that statement made me believe Virtrium to be, and how happy I was to read it, other than by saying I can't articulate it.

Sarcasm right?

[Vaz]

Sarcasm right?

Nope. I do believe it's a very good thing for an MMO company to focus on accentuating unique strengths at the risk of never gaining a massive population, instead of doing something like this:

Small MMO: "oh hai guyz, we be movin into ur audience!"
WoW: *doesn't even bother to look at the newcomer*
EQ1&2: "umm...no?"
EVE: "yo, dat litening dont strike 2wice"
LOTRO: "kekeke"
Large herd of mostly still-small and a few medium-size MMOs that tried the same thing as the newcomer: "no wai! u phail, we win, lolz" *two or more of said herd spontaneously combust in a burst of cancellation*

- grammar courtesy of lolcats -
I apologise for the burning sensation your eyeballs may be experiencing.

[Tcei]

Nope. I do believe it's a very good thing for an MMO company to focus on accentuating unique strengths at the risk of never gaining a massive population, instead of doing something like this:

Small MMO: "oh hai guyz, we be movin into ur audience!"
WoW: *doesn't even bother to look at the newcomer*
EQ1&2: "umm...no?"
EVE: "yo, dat litening dont strike 2wice"
LOTRO: "kekeke"
Large herd of mostly still-small and a few medium-size MMOs that tried the same thing as the newcomer: "no wai! u phail, we win, lolz" *two or more of said herd spontaneously combust in a burst of cancellation*

- grammar courtesy of lolcats -
I apologise for the burning sensation your eyeballs may be experiencing.

Agreed, not only that, but if we were to try to become "main stream" what game would we be emulating? Wow. I DO NOT WANT another wow knockoff. The market is already flooded with them as it is, and would be the death of this game. Fix the issues work on adding new content, dont worry about being another clone.

[CallakDW]

Well reguardless, I don't want to see a clone, I want to see an enjoyable adventure environment. I'm at a point now where it's either too easy, (I can take on several 80 - 100 golems at once), or it's too hard, because the spawning doesn't function properly, and I can't very get one or two >100 level monsters alone.

[Ophelea]

Honest question.

Has what is broken in the spawn system ever been explained that anyone can remember? I know I never did because we only figured it out 7-10 days before the sale...

[Deth]

Yes it has been explained over on the boards that shall not be spoken of. Basically Each and every item is it's own entity So every weapon,pierce of armor and mob is it's own complete entity with all the stats and info about it, no "see data entry 105" for say a water golem. It would be Water golem 1,2,3 see "DB entry 105", Water golem see "DB entry 106", Water golem 3 see "DB entry 107". So as you see as the server has to create and run every monster as it's own "DB entry" it quickly grows bogged down.

So to fix they set up the spawn system to reduce non needed, at the time, memory, by turning off mobs till someone enters the area and spawns the mobs. I have heard said by non-Devs that there is a hard limit of the number of areas that can spawn. I do not know how true that is.

So it is not really broken. It is working as it is meant to. It is just set-up that way so as to help reduce server load.

[gopher65]

It didn't use to be like this. They purposefully "broke" the system during merge. Or rather, they fixed the spawn system so that it was capable of running on the new, cheaper, less meaty hardware. I don't like it the way it is, but I doubt anyone is going to bother pouring in the money to buy a bunch of brand new servers for a game with a few hundred subs. That's just a bad investment.

[CallakDW]

I don't like it the way it is, but I doubt anyone is going to bother pouring in the money to buy a bunch of brand new servers for a game with a few hundred subs. That's just a bad investment.

That's a catch22, they aren't ever going to get many more than a few hundered subs if they don't fix stuff like this. For instance, this is what drove me away the first time, and this is what is working on driving me away again. Only thing that holds me around is the work I've put into mine and friends lairs in a new community I helped started, but that won't hold me forever if all I ever get to do that I enjoy is craft. Sometimes I don't feel like crafting. Then what? I'm going to be forced to go to WoW to get an immersive adventure. I'm not a person that likes to pay on two games at once....

[CallakDW]

So it is not really broken. It is working as it is meant to. It is just set-up that way so as to help reduce server load.

In MMORPG games, generally the intent of a spawn system is to add to a games immersion as well as to provide an antaganist. If it doesn't do that, it's broken, wether it was broke on purpose or not. It was a mistake on the developers parts to think that they can expand the world beyond the limits of the equipment that their sponsors are willing to buy and maintain, and a mistake on the part of the sponsors to not provide what the devs need to make a better world. The trade off is unacceptable perfomrance for adventurers.and a lack luster world.

[Goriax]

WoW is the first game I played where the critters followed roughly the same rules with regards to terrain as the players. Where things like cover really mattered. The HZ system appears to me to be very much like original EQ. (I can't recall EQ2 now since it's been a couple years since I've played it. I doubt it did much although they must have fixed problems such as mobs agroing through walls. I can't recall if they could climb vertical cliffs.)

Yes of course games like WoW and EQ2 have an army of developers allowing them to do things that a handful of HZ devs won't be able to do. Those games have an even bigger army of players to support the developers. I promise that if HZ managed to get 9 MILLION paying subscribers it could have an army of developers too. Except that ain't going to happen.

Anyway, as with any of those games you just have to find good hunting spots. I've hunted on both the Satyr Islands and EB for MANY hours just fine.

There are some tactics that can be done. They have very little in common with realism but they are possible. Such as how to find good hunting spots and how to pull. I would think dragons have it a bit easier since we don't have to worry much about how to GET to the spot.

P.S. If it were TRULY realistic it would be FAR harder then it is. Intelligent monsters would not let you stand in one spot and pull them to you for slaughter one at a time.

[CallakDW]

P.S. If it were TRULY realistic it would be FAR harder then it is. Intelligent monsters would not let you stand in one spot and pull them to you for slaughter one at a time.

If it were truely realistic it would be interesting, not sure harder. Dragons for one could attack from the air and obliterate their enemies with their breath for one example.

[CallakDW]

Yes of course games like WoW and EQ2 have an army of developers allowing them to do things that a handful of HZ devs won't be able to do. Those games have an even bigger army of players to support the developers. I promise that if HZ managed to get 9 MILLION paying subscribers it could have an army of developers too. Except that ain't going to happen.

They didn't get 9 MILLION subscribers by twiddling their thumbs. They made a good game, not a nitch game. THEY fixed stuff like this problem, and I'm not referring to monsters having to go around obsticals, but the spawning problem. Fix this, get a few more subs, get a few more subs, get more programmers, get more programmers, get a few more subs.... see the pattern?

[Deth]

No they got 9 million subs based off a name and having money from said name to pay the people to work on other things. Myself I would rather have a nitch game like horizons then a game 9 million people play and whine about.

[CallakDW]

No they got 9 million subs based off a name and having money from said name to pay the people to work on other things. Myself I would rather have a nitch game like horizons then a game 9 million people play and whine about.

I'd be happy to play in this nitch game if they could fix this one massive problem, part of the most annoying thing about it is I was presant when it worked as it should, and I was presant when they changed it, and I hate hate hate the change. It's really the only thing that is really driving me away. I can deal with the less pretty effects, and even the lower frame rate and other eyecandy failings (compared to other more modern games).

[Deth]

Thats just it you like me are different in that aspect. I am willing to take frame rate hits to gain other things. To 90% of the gaming world frame rate is god and they had to raise it anyway they could or have even less people then they do now.

To truly fix it they would have to do a complete, I think it is server but I could be wrong, re-write. Something that is not going to happen any time soon. Or maybe it is a data base re-write, I am not sure.

I just now they say the server architecture/program is rock solid it is just client side issues and maybe the way the data base is handled. If I remember and understand right the server architecture/program is just a communications between the client and the database. But I could be wrong as I do not how all the things work behind the scenes and that they always say that the problem is with the client and that every "item"/entity in the game has it's own entry/ is it's own virtual machine and there for takes up a lot of memory each.