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Thread: Armour/Eth Armour

  1. #1
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    Default Armour/Eth Armour

    With the introduction of the new Dp system a few weeks back their was an added effect.
    On the Training points window 2 new options had appeared.
    Armour and Ethreal Armour.

    Now i read in another post that this was un-intentional and will be sorted.

    Just wondering if we can get some word on whats happening with it, as i know the char im training would love to drop a few 100 points into it for lvling purposes

    Is it now a system that we can use or is it going to be 'removed whenever' and a risk to use any points in it?

    Not a real important post at the moment i know but i'd still like an official word on the subject.

    Cheers.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Armour/Eth Armour

    thy for posting that, Sindala.
    I was wondering too, did not dare to spent t-points on that.
    I asked around- but nobody could tell..

  3. #3

    Default Re: Armour/Eth Armour

    The official answer is what you'd said. It was an unintentional change and will be reverted soon.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Armour/Eth Armour

    Amarië The more important question might be. Will it cause problems, I.E. lose of TP or cause problems with how much amour or Eth amour problems when it is fixed? Is something people should not spend points in and remove them now? Or will it be OK to pump it up for a bit and enjoy the mistake and when it is fixed they will be auto refunded?



  5. #5

    Default Re: Armour/Eth Armour

    I think it only makes sense that, if the armor categories for training points were removed, the point invested in that area would return to the player as recycled points, without disappearing forever or taking buy-back points. And even if that isn't the most straightforward solution, it seems to me that it'd be the best for the players who invest in armor.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Armour/Eth Armour

    Quote Originally Posted by Favoran View Post
    I think it only makes sense that, if the armor categories for training points were removed, the point invested in that area would return to the player as recycled points, without disappearing forever or taking buy-back points. And even if that isn't the most straightforward solution, it seems to me that it'd be the best for the players who invest in armor.
    My words are but the whisper of a forgotten wind. Let them be lost or found as suits the seeker.

    Elder and wise, by any reckoning I may make, the gods have spoken and called this thing a thing of error, a thing not of our proper being and nature.

    To take advantage of such an error, for however short a time, to use such a thing not of our nature... is this a right and proper thing to do? If it were not known as error... then that is one decision for each to take. But when it is known? Might it not be that that is quite another?

    Let each decide as they find best fit. If there be cost to this.. then that will be as is right and proper also.

    My words are but the whisper of a forgotten wind. Let them be lost or found as suits the seeker.


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  7. #7

    Default Re: Armour/Eth Armour

    *I am not an official voice for Istaria, nor a developer, and what follows is my opinion based on my experiences in this and other games*

    Quote Originally Posted by Amarië AncalÃ**mon View Post
    The official answer is what you'd said. It was an unintentional change and will be reverted soon.
    In other words, since the developers have said that this is a bug and is going to be fixed soon (presumably the next live patch), it could be interpreted that keeping training points in Armor or Ethereal Armor at this point could be viewed as an exploit. As in, bannable offence, should they choose to view it as such.

    So you're likely to get very little sympathy if you keep training points currently in those skills and end up bugged when those skills disappear from the training list.

    Buy-back points regenerate very quickly when used, so use them before the next patch and move your training points out of Armor or Ethereal Armor, and you won't have to worry about any potential permanent decrease in your total number of training points.
    Exploring is a necessary skill, and its not like death is fatal. At least, not for the gifted.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Armour/Eth Armour

    To translate what Sephie is saying...

    It is in the Rules of Conduct that knowingly taking advantage of any bug, design errors or problems in the system or game is something players should not do. Such items should be reported via the website (which is already has been).

    So don't train up in these as it has been said that it is an unintentional bug. Right now there is no word on how the fix will be applied, however, so it's risky behavior to do in any case.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Armour/Eth Armour

    Quote Originally Posted by Oakleif View Post
    So you're likely to get very little sympathy if you keep training points currently in those skills and end up bugged when those skills disappear from the training list.
    Cept that the majority of people don't read the forums. And since this bug wasn't advertised or well known, few people even knew it was a bug. I was looking through my TP the other day to see if I could move any to Spirit so I could get my Tier V spells triple teched, and I noticed the Armour TP thingie there. I raised an eyebrow and played with it for a few minutes testing to see what it did (at first I thought it would raise armour usage skill, which seemed reasonable) before I grew suspicious asked around. Only one person who I asked had even heard of it, and they only knew because they'd dredged up some old post from the Blight forum.

    If I hadn't been around years and years ago and heard the discussions about Armour Use skill (never mind dumping points into armour itself), then I wouldn't have ever thought this was a bug. So how exactly would most people even know this is a bug? I notice that you and Velea immediately jump to "anyone who does this will be banned", cause that's the type of people that you are. Does it not occur to you that this isn't exactly an obvious bug?

    So ban away. It seems to me that Vi, with their tiny costumer base, needs paying customers more than they need uppity forum moderators threatening people with a ban stick that they have no authority to wield.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Armour/Eth Armour

    I'm waiting to see that post get removed or worse. Took some serious courage there gopher, wow.
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  11. #11

    Default Re: Armour/Eth Armour

    Quote Originally Posted by Silverblaze View Post
    I'm waiting to see that post get removed or worse. Took some serious courage there gopher, wow.
    That's not courage, that's fearless bravado.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Armour/Eth Armour

    'Cept I'm not a moderator, or a dev. I'm as much a player as you are, except that I've also volunteered to bring things heard in game or on other forums I read to the devs attention.

    So I can't ban anyone, and never claimed I could. However, I don't think that the devs need to spend much more time with the bug other than remove it. And since exploiting known bugs is bannable, if the devs choose to not ban someone who used the exploit, and bugged himself, I don't think they should lose sleep over it.
    Exploring is a necessary skill, and its not like death is fatal. At least, not for the gifted.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Armour/Eth Armour

    Our fearless community manager is bravely battling a cold this evening. I'm not a community manager, but I can deal with support tickets. So here goes:

    Since Amarië needed help, she submitted a support ticket. Here's what we said to Amarië.
    ---
    Greetings Amarië,

    We're sorry to hear that you're feeling sick and need some help with the forums. We'll investigate the forum thread and post a reply as needed.

    Best,

    Yfelvik
    Istaria Customer Support
    ---


    If Sindala had submitted her question to customer support, we would reply with something similar to:
    ---
    Dear Sindala,

    Thank you for submitting the information about the Armor and Ethereal Armor. You are correct that being able to train those attributes was a bug introduced with the last update and the live team has it in their work queue.

    I'm still waiting to hear back if the update for April 15 will include a fix, but I know it's high on their list. I would not recommend that you apply training points to Armor or Ethereal Armor because it could have unexpected consequences - like lost TP or your hair turning green (you never know what will happen when you train things you're not supposed to train).

    Inevitably, people ask if they do something, will they get banned. There's two answers to this question: the Live Team's answer and My Answer.

    Live Team: You probably already know the Live Team's answer - if you do something against the terms and conditions - etc. etc. - your character will be put in a box and never see the light of day.

    My Answer: Here's what I think really happens. The live team doesn't want to ban people all over the place - that would be bad for the game. I do know they can detect all sorts of things, though. I think - and no one will confirm - that there's something much more complicated going on. Like the real world, I think there is Karma in the world of Istaria - call it Istarian Karma. It's a hidden character attribute (kind of like those Armor and Ethereal Armor attributes). When you do good things, sometimes your karma will go up, and when you do bad things, your karma always goes down.
    Good Karma = Good Spawns/Loot/Resources/Gathering
    Bad Karma - Bad Spawns/Loot/Resources/Gathering
    Here's the interesting part. I think monster spawns, loot, resource spawns and gathering all use your Karma to boost those rates. I've been unable to get anyone to confirm this theory - they just look at me and tell me to go do support cases - but if you ask me, it just might be true.

    And really, if it is true, you get a small bonus while playing, and if it isn't true, you still get the bonus of knowing you were playing fair and not exploiting systems. Sounds like a win / win situation.

    Hope you have fun in Istaria and let us know if there's anything else we can do.

    - Yfelvik
    Istaria Customer Support
    ---

    Well - that's how I would answer those two question. Hope it helps - I know us support people have a different view on things, so Amarië has final call as Community Manager, but at least you've got an answer.

    - Yfelvik
    Istaria Customer Support

  14. #14

    Default Re: Armour/Eth Armour

    That's pretty clever (and quite amusing) the community manager filed a support ticket. Good teamwork? :P

  15. #15

    Default Re: Armour/Eth Armour

    Quote Originally Posted by Yfelvik View Post
    I think - and no one will confirm - that there's something much more complicated going on. Like the real world, I think there is Karma in the world of Istaria - call it Istarian Karma. It's a hidden character attribute (kind of like those Armor and Ethereal Armor attributes). When you do good things, sometimes your karma will go up, and when you do bad things, your karma always goes down.
    Good Karma = Good Spawns/Loot/Resources/Gathering
    Bad Karma - Bad Spawns/Loot/Resources/Gathering
    Here's the interesting part. I think monster spawns, loot, resource spawns and gathering all use your Karma to boost those rates. I've been unable to get anyone to confirm this theory - they just look at me and tell me to go do support cases - but if you ask me, it just might be true.
    Heh, I know someone with really high Karma then...

    I don't think this bug is worthy of being banned over, especially because most don't even realize it's a bug at all. I didn't even know they had added the armor categories; I haven't opened my training window for so long.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Armour/Eth Armour

    I´m with you gopher, and thy for speaking out, what lots of us do think.

    A little bit more feeling now and then would be much appreciated.

    But on the other hand- I once told peaches, that I would not be in her shoes.
    I still won`t.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Armour/Eth Armour

    Quote Originally Posted by Yfelvik View Post
    ... It's a hidden character attribute (kind of like those Armor and Ethereal Armor attributes). When you do good things, sometimes your karma will go up, and when you do bad things, your karma always goes down.
    Hm.. I wonder if it's susceptible to integer overflow. *starts off downward spiral (hopefully towards the top) with this post*

    Explanation:
    Integers (numbers without fractional components) in computers have a finite range. It is possible to exceed this range by using normal mathematical operations (like addition or subtraction). Once the range is exceeded, weird things happen, the most common being the value wrapping around to the other end of the range. Example: a certain type of variable can store a value -127 to 127. Subtracting 1 from -127 and attempting to store it in that variable will wind up storing the value 127 instead.

    I suspect death points have this behavior, however, you'll probably need way more than 127 before you wind up with something less than or equal to zero. Any volunteers to try it? :P
    Last edited by Steelclaw; April 15th, 2008 at 10:29 AM.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Armour/Eth Armour

    How many DPs are we talking about SC? Millions?

  19. #19

    Default Re: Armour/Eth Armour

    Depends on what size integer it is, but I'd guess -4294967295.
    You're looking at now. Everything that happens now is happening now.

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  20. #20

    Default Re: Armour/Eth Armour

    Well, I don't know for sure but if its a signed integer field then you'd need 2,147,483,647 DPs. Otherwise, what Tramsan said. Anyway, pretty sure you'd have trouble getting that many anytime soon. At 1 DP per second, you'd hit the cap (assuming signed integer) in 68 years.
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