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Thread: Auction or purchase?

  1. #41

    Default Re: Auction or purchase?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fratricide View Post
    I totally like the proxy bid Idea. My only addition to the whole thing would be about a minimum bid. The minimum bid should be no less then 75% of the Imperial price, but I would suggest that it be at full face value of what it would be if up for sale.

    Auction is really the only way to go. The whole issue that has existed in the past with all the novian farmers when plots just went straight for sale is totally for the birds. It really screwed up a whole bunch of crafting areas for a lot of people without any recourse.
    My bold face, not his.

    1. Why can't the blind bids be proxy bids, so people (like myself, I am nearly broke) don't pay 10g when 3g would have worked. Just like eBay.

    2. Remember the old days, when plots were cleared of everything when they went up for sale? So, which would you prefer? No novians and no quickly rebuilt machine somewhere else?

    3. Off topic, but: Turn the darn novians into resources (bars, orbs, etc.) so someone has to actually build the stuff. When you tear down a wooden building, you get some wood. Not an 80% prepackaged building.

    4. Do I have a 4? Oh, yeah ... some of us can't afford to be money sunk. Sorry about the busted English there.
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  2. #42
    Member Vlisson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Auction or purchase?

    question is to Vi:

    what´s your goal with the plot reclamation?

    do you want create a money sink?
    do you want to have happy customers?
    do you want to have the reclamation happening smooth?

    i hope that you want happy and satisfied customers ^^ so i hope you will give us a time period where everyone can make his maxium bids (like ebay)

    so you enter your max amount you are willing and able to pay

    then when the period is over the server make maintance/get closed or if they are able to do it run like normal

    your programm checks plot after plot and the highest bid wins (costing 10% more then the second highest bid)

    a blind auction is frustrating

    only opening the plot for sale forces to camp, absenteeism to get enough time to get a plot

  3. #43
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    Default Re: Auction or purchase?

    I'm not going to propose names for my system, I havent even thoroughly read any of the posts.

    I liked the way I won my lair.

    There is a min bid = to imperial price.

    People are told how many are bidding on the property. You put in a coin value. equal to the price on the plot or higher. I nthe end you win or lose, bid on many prospective plots, the first one to get auctioned off is the one you get assuming you are the highest bidder.

    It's easy and its what I am used to. Such is my opinion.
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  4. #44

    Default Re: Auction or purchase?

    I notice nobody has mentioned another form of auction so I will toss it into the mix. A Dutch auction starts with a highly inflated price tag available for imediate sale. After some time passes the price lowers. If the price finally reaches the imperial price it would then just be a normal "for sale" plot.

  5. #45

    Default Re: Auction or purchase?

    Quote Originally Posted by Krystine View Post
    I notice nobody has mentioned another form of auction so I will toss it into the mix. A Dutch auction starts with a highly inflated price tag available for imediate sale. After some time passes the price lowers. If the price finally reaches the imperial price it would then just be a normal "for sale" plot.
    This is an interesting method, but where would the initial auction price start at? is it 5x, 10x, 20x the imperial price? It is a good idea if you are able to reasonably find that happy medium between the imperial price and the extreme outlier price that would be the difficult point to meter out.

    I still kind of like the blind auction better, but this would be a decent alternative.
    Elated that HZ is no longer in the hands of the Infidels.

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  6. #46

    Default Re: Auction or purchase?

    Quote Originally Posted by Krystine View Post
    I notice nobody has mentioned another form of auction so I will toss it into the mix. A Dutch auction starts with a highly inflated price tag available for imediate sale. After some time passes the price lowers. If the price finally reaches the imperial price it would then just be a normal "for sale" plot.
    This is an interesting idea, depending on how you structure the pricing. And how much time elapses before the price goes down. Talk about camping ... this could be the all-time campout. While I don't have nearly enough gold for this type of auction it might be fun to watch.

    So, are dragons still allowed to buy up biped plots? Can my biped buy a lair? Just curious.
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  7. #47
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    Default Re: Auction or purchase?

    Quote Originally Posted by Krystine View Post
    I notice nobody has mentioned another form of auction so I will toss it into the mix. A Dutch auction starts with a highly inflated price tag available for imediate sale. After some time passes the price lowers. If the price finally reaches the imperial price it would then just be a normal "for sale" plot.
    This works well in real life, where there's no infinite money and people ponder very well costs => benefits.

    In Istaria there's people with 2 mithril (2000g) that long for that huge plot since years. The instant you put it for sale, it's sold, regardless of price.

    Money can easily made up back here.
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  8. #48

    Default Re: Auction or purchase?

    what about buyout prices?

    i dont feel its right that the not so rich dont stand a chance at the auctions.

    maby a buyout price being 10 or 20 times the normal value of the plot?

    to remove the landrush thingy? and to give the rich some advantange, but not all the way?

  9. #49
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    Default Re: Auction or purchase?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thangorodrim Atanatari View Post
    what about buyout prices?

    i dont feel its right that the not so rich dont stand a chance at the auctions.

    maby a buyout price being 10 or 20 times the normal value of the plot?

    to remove the landrush thingy? and to give the rich some advantange, but not all the way?
    There are 10 times as many (if not more) incredibly wealthy people per worthwhile plot (75 x 75 or larger).

    Whatever the buyout, imagine a 110 x 110 plot put for sale: the microsecond it's for sale, it's gone.

    The hope would be to go in the most secluded places in hope to find a worthwhile plot, but then, you know many use that web site often updated with all the plots locations and status. Basically, anything "open" for being bought, will be hoarded HARD and fast.

    Moreover, a guy with above 1000g will keep some "bits" (read: 10-20g) and buyout "lesser" plots with 3-4 x 1 month subscriptions. Then he will put them for "his way" auction (highest bidder wins) and evilly overcharge for them.
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  10. #50

    Default Re: Auction or purchase?

    Crazy idea time:

    Use blind or modified dutch auction

    If dutch, the first winning bid wins the plot (but will not be revealed until the end of the auction)

    Either way, the AVERAGE BID will be used to determine how much the owner will have to pay in TAXES.

    TAXES need not be paid if the owner provides public services on the plot such as: Crafting Stations, Storage, Consigner, Vaultkeeper, etc.

    Each service reduces taxes by a value related to the service and its tier (i.e.: a tier I consigner reduces the tax by 10s, while tier V reduces it by 250s)

    Brainstorming completed, hashing started:
    Requires additional coding (mostly in the form of record keeping)
    Does not address the issues brought up by Soresha and faced by the Unity players. It could, however, mitigate them somewhat. Still not fair, in my opinion.

  11. #51

    Default Re: Auction or purchase?

    Quote Originally Posted by Landowyn View Post
    So, are dragons still allowed to buy up biped plots? Can my biped buy a lair? Just curious.
    Unless I am bugged (and I most frequently am) Bipeds cannot buy a lair, but dragons can buy plots.

  12. #52

    Default Re: Auction or purchase?

    I'd say a visible auction, if auction it must be, personally. The catch? Don't put a visible timer on it. That would serve two purposes.

    1) It would make it impossible for someone to do the ebay-ninja move of diving in at the last second to make a little few copper/silver bid to get the lair/plot.

    2) It'd let those players who are not so wealthy know if something is very much beyond their ability to buy ahead of time due to bids already placed. They could then move on to another auction instead of wasting their time and money placing money into a plot they don't have a snowball's chance of getting.

    I think one thing that should be factored in though is plot development and location. If it's just a little undeveloped square patch/one passageway plot/lair- why not make it available for purchase right off? Many owned lairs and plots have no work done on them at all- something I doubt that's changed since I had to take my little hiatus as they'd been that way for a year or three. If the location isn't prime (no resources/ready portals nearby) and there's little to no work done- why not let them be purchased so those players who honestly can't compete in the auction market can actually get some land, even if it's far from prime?

  13. #53

    Default Re: Auction or purchase?

    Everyone is so focussed on bidding for a plot.
    Like my previous suggestion. Give everyone an equal chance to obtain a plot.
    If it interests you, you put in escrow the Empire Price Tag.
    Those sitting on 2 mithril have as much chance to obtain that plot, as those who can barely scrape the 3 gold required to enter the bidding.
    Most fair option, and no disgruntled players.
    If you want a slightly higher chance at that favourite plot, buy extra subscriptions.
    That is the only way to increase your chances.
    And I can imagine that won't help a lot if a 121x121 plot is put up for auction.
    In anycase each extra subscription will bring in more money for VI, even if it is only temporary.

    Salis

  14. #54

    Default Re: Auction or purchase?

    Actually, the lottery sounds like the fairest of all. No one has to bid 100g on a 10g plot and you have a 1 in however many bid chance.

    I don't think it should be an escrow bid, however. If all I can muster for one of the 75x75 plots that go for 5g is the basic 5g, I'd like to be able to bid on ALL of them. If I win one, like the blind auctions, then all the other bids go away.

    And rather than a random, alphabetical auction -- as before -- the auction should start with the largest plots (in area) and go down to the smallest.

    Edit: I am also very much in favor of negating the advantage those with huge amounts of gold have been provided in the past. If we know one thing it's that they probably already own three or four plots that are among the biggest in the land. This is a game we all want to enjoy, not big business.
    Last edited by Landowyn; June 9th, 2008 at 03:17 AM. Reason: second thoughts
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  15. #55

    Default Re: Auction or purchase?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vlisson View Post
    but you place your highest bid 100g
    then the second highest bid from another player would be 96g than you would get this plot/lair for 96,5 g?
    Personally I like this idea very much. It works like a blind auction with people bidding whatever they think that plot/lair is worth to them, but when it is all over whoever won won't overpay regardless of what that plot/lair was actually worth. That way someone who really wants a particular plot/lair will bid whatever they are willing or able to pay for it and will never have to worry about logging in constatnly to see if the price was raised and bid on it again. They bid on it once and that is that if they get overbid they can try for another one. This also will keep players happy since they will not have bid and spent 100g on a plot that had a second highest bid of 1g. They now will have saved 99g instead of wasting 99g for no reason. This would however prevent the money sink issue (whether or not we want that is another issue altogether).

    I also dislike the lottery idea for several reasons. It would serve as a detriment to anyone who has been hearing "reclaim" and has been saving their money up for months and months and taken a full scale tour all over Istaria and found one particlular plot/lair they would give their soul to get. It also would be more of a gambling game with those who have desired the plot/lair for months versus a player who did not get their first and only choice and is bidding on a plot/lair that they had never even seen or heard about until that day.

    As far as a visible auction-why not? The way I see it as long as there is ample time for any player to keep bidding until they cannot bid anymore then eventually the price will get too outrageously high for anyone except the one person that wants it most and has the most money for it. So in the end maybe have a timer that starts after the last bid and if the bidding stops for X amount of time after the last bid was placed then the last bid wins?
    Last edited by shadowrain2; June 9th, 2008 at 07:05 AM. Reason: space

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  16. #56

    Default Re: Auction or purchase?

    I'd love to see Virtrium come up with the greatest plot reclamation program since NASA faked those trips to the Moon, but we've got to get a little less imaginative here people: Fancy auction changes probably won't happen.

    We need to give them simple solutions, not solutions that make them have to completely rewrite the program they were using. Which means we probably won't see Dutch auctions or any other sort of in depth auction process.

    I think the a auction might work their current set-up, but don't know how much would have to be changed. But some of these suggestions are so pie-in-the-sky they are probably completely unworkable. I suggest we keep our suggestions simple. Heh.
    Landowyn of Order
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  17. #57

    Default Re: Auction or purchase?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyrieath View Post
    I'd say a visible auction

    2) It'd let those players who are not so wealthy know if something is very much beyond their ability to buy ahead of time due to bids already placed. They could then move on to another auction instead of wasting their time and money placing money into a plot they don't have a snowball's chance of getting.
    i agree with this.. invisible would only serve the small group of the most rich. visible would be best for the majority of the players (even though some dont realize that yet)

  18. #58

    Default Re: Auction or purchase?

    I am for blind auction.

    And I think that a lot of the discussions are going way too far already. There is a tendency to make things a lot more complicated as necessary.
    And that's coming from me who used to do the same (discuss things over and over again, and trying to find the "perfect" solution). But I learned my lessons. Sometimes it's better not to worry too much and keep it simple.

    If I look on the situation on Order, I would be surprised if anyone of the active players won't get a nice plot. And that is with whatever system that will be used.

    Just my 2 cents...
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  19. #59

    Default Re: Auction or purchase?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mysk View Post
    I am for blind auction.

    And I think that a lot of the discussions are going way too far already. There is a tendency to make things a lot more complicated as necessary.
    And that's coming from me who used to do the same (discuss things over and over again, and trying to find the "perfect" solution). But I learned my lessons. Sometimes it's better not to worry too much and keep it simple.

    If I look on the situation on Order, I would be surprised if anyone of the active players won't get a nice plot. And that is with whatever system that will be used.

    Just my 2 cents...
    You might be surprised by how many of those "prime" plots are owned by people who are still active or semi-active and with 3, 4 or 5 or 6 subs. I know of one person who has 7 plots. Another person, before leaving for good, had 5. And guess what ... the guy with 7 plots will probably bid on another one.
    Landowyn of Order
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  20. #60

    Default Re: Auction or purchase?

    Quote Originally Posted by Landowyn View Post
    You might be surprised by how many of those "prime" plots are owned by people who are still active or semi-active and with 3, 4 or 5 or 6 subs. I know of one person who has 7 plots. Another person, before leaving for good, had 5. And guess what ... the guy with 7 plots will probably bid on another one.
    Well if he pays the subs it's good for VI, if he pays another sub when he wants another plot, it's again good for VI. More Subs = more cash for VI to keep the game up and running.

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