Shop Storage

[Aaelefein]

This idea just popped in to my head this morning...

When if other storage structures can ever be implimented and or the idea of placeable furniture, tools etc in a house...I got this idea that should be relatively easy to impliment with minimal coding (I would think or at least hope).

First...change all tools in player built shops as "Allow All" regardless of plot permissions. Personally, it makes no sense to me that they should be anything else. Doing this would allow the following...

Make shops double as storage structures, with their stack/bulk based on their tier (Could be done with dragon lair shops as well, but with a little more coding)

Examples:

Woodshop: Beginner (stack 10, bulk 3100)...numbers arrived at by:
T1-2 Wood @ 150 Boards each, plus
Tools: Wood Saw, Board Plane, and Carpenter's Hammer
Socketing Comps: 4 items for 10 sockets
Plus a stack and a little bulk for wiggle room

Journeyman (Stack 12, bulk 5500)...
Calculated same, plus 2 stack and appropiate bulk for T3-4 wood

Expert (Stack 14, bulk 8000)...
Additional 2 stack and appropiate bulk for T5-6 Wood

Nope, not a lot of space or stack, but enough to easily keep on hand to generate a few tools or weapons without taking up valuable space on a plot or adding even more silos.

Clothworking Shop: Beginner (Stack 8, bulk 3750)
Stack based on T1-2 Fabric Spools @ 200 each
Armor socketing for 10 apps (there are no cloth shields)
Tools: Needle, Scissors, and Weaving Awl

Journeyman (Stack 10, bulk 6900)
Stack/bulk based on T1-4 Spools @ 200 each

Expert (Stack 12, bulk 9200)
Stack/bulk based on T1-6 Spools @ 200 each


Anyways...I think you get the idea...with each shop having a set stack and bulk based on what it is designed to do. Now not sure if it is possible, but would be could if the storage could be restricted in a similiar fashion to the way storehouses are. As in the above examples, only wood, tools, and socketing resources can be placed in the wood shop, and only cloth, tools, and socketing resources in the clothworking shop.

Some shops would be a bit more difficult, such as the Mill and Alchemy Shops, so maybe some of that would be split between them. Same for the confectioner...but then the confectioner now has the storehouses which help considerably. Maybe allow Confectinoer shops to hold intermediary items, or maybe just rare garnishes.

So there you have it...take it for what it's worth...expand it, rip it apart, what have you. Like I said...it just popped in my head this morning and thought it was a good idea and something relatively easy to accomplish without adding mroe assets to the game.


--------------

On a side note...sure would be nice to have a water tap inside the mill and confectioner shop too.

[Shian]

First...change all tools in player built shops as "Allow All" regardless of plot permissions. Personally, it makes no sense to me that they should be anything else. .

They already do this. Once activated, machines are usable by all, regardless of permissions.

Anyways...I think you get the idea...with each shop having a set stack and bulk based on what it is designed to do.

Playing devil's advocate, there are a number of people that keep thier plot/lair etc. to private or guild. Because of just that- they do not want random people walking in to use thier machines etc.

If such a thing were up, it makes theviery easier. (more uncommon in Istaria, but it does happen.) Imagine all those level 100 cogs and hard to get gear swiped by someone while you were away at a node! With no one around and with you hurt and angry at the possibility of having to re-get and re-make everything, it's easy to blame the nearest person- the plot owner that is standing in his own guild hall.

No thanks. Nice idea though. I just would not like to be 'held responsible' for something I had nothing to do with. Or worse- put my own stuff in a machine on my own plot and have it swiped by a passerby.

On the other hand:

Not having to use as many of those ugly silos though? I'd love that.

No one would have to keep thier own gear-instead just borrowing the gear stored on the machine. I can see that and that spells a lot of freed up vault space!

With the coming of larger plot sizes, we will have more room for storage and machines, so perhaps soon this may not be neccessary.

[Aaelefein]

Playing devil's advocate, there are a number of people that keep thier plot/lair etc. to private or guild. Because of just that- they do not want random people walking in to use thier machines etc.

First, before I clarifiy things...your point above is EXACTLY why permissions on activated machines should be out of player's hands. It is nothing but selfishness and does nothing to help the community if you prevent other people from using their machines. I also detest people that pop a vault and leave it either private/guild only.

Now, for clarification...this shop storage I am refering too would have the same restictions as silos, houses, and guild houses. You can still set the shop to "Deny All", "Allow All", or "Guild Only"...this only sets the permissinos on who can access the shop storage...not who can use the machines inside the shop.

Again, with the exception of Consigners and Pawnbrokers, I do NOT think shop tools or vaults should be allowed to be restricted...but this is not the issue of the opening post...so lets not get this derailed please.

[Shian]

First, before I clarifiy things...your point above is EXACTLY why permissions on activated machines should be out of player's hands. It is nothing but selfishness and does nothing to help the community if you prevent other people from using their machines..

But it dosen't. Machines are always active, anyone can use them and there is no way to 'set' them as anything else once activated regardless of permissions on the plot or individual machine.

Mind you, I've had my machine deactiate itself a couple of times, but I don't think that's the same thing.

I also detest people that pop a vault and leave it either private/guild only.

I don't think I've seen one of those before. 'Least not on Order. It's possible it was built and not activated?

Even so, Guild lands are guild lands. I believe such has a 'right' to set vaults to guild only.

[peladon]

First, before I clarifiy things...your point above is EXACTLY why permissions on activated machines should be out of player's hands. It is nothing but selfishness and does nothing to help the community if you prevent other people from using their machines. I also detest people that pop a vault and leave it either private/guild only.

Now, for clarification...this shop storage I am refering too would have the same restictions as silos, houses, and guild houses. You can still set the shop to "Deny All", "Allow All", or "Guild Only"...this only sets the permissinos on who can access the shop storage...not who can use the machines inside the shop.

Again, with the exception of Consigners and Pawnbrokers, I do NOT think shop tools or vaults should be allowed to be restricted...but this is not the issue of the opening post...so lets not get this derailed please.

Elder and wise. My words are but the whisper of a forgotten wind. Let them be lost or found, as suits the seeker.

Thy words speak much of things that ye findof distaste. Thy words speak of tht ye detest.

I speak no word as to my stance on the matters ye speak. Those that know ShadowGuard will know some of where I stand. But... that ye hold stance to a thing and hold it ill, does this make it ill? To thee? Aye. To others, is not that stance they take theirs to choose?

If ye labour and swink to make a thing whole, then it seems none of ill to me that ye should have manner of choosing how that thing be used. That others may choose else... why, that is the nature of other! .

To set another stance, and set it forth in words civil and soft, this is one thing. To cast ill words upon them because they choose other than ye see fit... is this the land we would be?

My words are but the whisper of a forgotten wind. Let them be lost or found, as suits the seeker.


Sephiranoth, called by some ShadowSeeker
Nobody and Nothing ever, save The Five do Feast
A Fool that walks among the Wise

[Justa Mirage]

I have thought the same about "Why not allow machines to have a bit of storage, same permissions as a silo / house structure would have."

To clarify some misconceptions:

Machines, once activated on a plot / lair are open to the public. You cannot deny a machine use to anyone walking up.

Red Walls have been gone for some time now. 1: because they could be circumvented by hacking the client and 2: they caused some navagational hazards on plots. So essentially they were useless.

And as Peladon so eliquently put it, what you build is yours to do with, and you are not obligated to "leave it open" to the public if you don't desire to.

[velveeta]

what seph sez, as always....

i pay for it, i make it, its mine to do with as i please

[Aaelefein]

Everyone...please...can we get back to the topic of my opening post? While I can see and understand the mindsets behind permissions...that is not what this post is about.

The idea is making shops double as restricted storage types (along lines of storehouses), so that they can hold enough related materials (wood in a wood shop, cloth in a clothshop, etc) to make a few tools, pieces of armor, weapons, etc without necessitating the need for large amounts of silos.

For that matter...allowing even large quantities of related materials to be stored in a shop would also negate the need for so many silos.

(Last bit on the side-track...if as things are stated...that machines can be used by anyone regardless of plot/building permissions...then Shian's hypothetical situation does not exist...as the standard permission restrictions will keep the rare but existing theives from stealing what is stored in the shop)

[Dhalin]

I understand Aelefein when he speaks about the disgust about people closing Vaults.... I mean it is a freaking VAULT.... why would you NOT activate it and/or deny permission to the public? Allowing it to be public doesn't even impact you at all....

Anyways, I understand him there, but forced public storage? No thanks. While Thievery is low in Istaria, I tend to not take any chances. I have been burned countless times in other games, and I would not wish to risk such happening here. I mean, you kidding me? It is all I can do, to grit my teeth every time I place a few iron bars in those silos at Summit, and scramble to log my other character on fast enough to grab em before someone else does. Soon, I won't even do that; I'll get another concurrent login and use my cargo disk as a silo instead.

As to letting socketed tools laying around with crystals... okay, IRL... if you were working at some public place, would you let $100+ machinery laying around? IRL, just a month or two go, we had a copper and power tool burglary at a construction site, and THOSE were even locked up! The thieves cut the padlocks and broke in, the police are still investigating. Now, In-game, you won't get banned even if you get caught red-handed stealing stuff... just imagine the Temptation to steal a fully tricked out tool (the equivalent of a $500 chain saw IRL), which was laying out in the open and unprotected... no freaking thanks.

Tools are only 10 bulk, unless higher tiers are more (I checked my iron tools, yup, 10 bulk). You have 300 stacks of personal inventory. Carrying around 3 tools on you is not going to make you unable to harvest and process resources. That is WHY they are only 10 bulk...

[Aaelefein]

Somehow, somewhere...someone got the impression I think storage should be open to all. THIS IS NOT THE CASE.

Unfortunately, this post has been totally taken off topic of the opening post. When Shian made his original reply, and then I replied...it was with the assumption that it was still possible to make shops (the machines, not the proposed storage) restricted to just the owner, a friends list, or guild only -- as it is still possible to select permissions on each structure...confirming the belief it is still possible to block people out from using the machines.

When it was possible to restrict mahines, it is still my firm belief that restricting the machines (just the machines) is anti-community and does no one any good...the same holds true for restricting a vaultkeeper. And yes, I have run into a couple before...remember...the vaultkeeper only shows if it is activated...and since I could see the vaultkeeper and couldn't access my vault...it was restricted.

This has been explained now that it is not the case...when a machine is activated...everyone and anyone can use it.

I do understand the need/desire/what-have-you...to restrict access to all other buildings...it only makes perfect sense...I certainly don't leave home and leave the door unlocked. The same holds true for restricting access to consigners...especially as they are quite handy for temporarily holding stuff when making foods or potions...or just moving things around.

To those that take the time to build and make structures available for public use, such as Silos, Consigners, and Pawnbrokers...I have nothing but praise for them and how it helps the community.

This all said...maybe I'll start a new thread with the original intent of this suggestion...adding storage capacity to shops.

[Fierce]

I'm on your side Aaelefein

[Dhalin]

Somehow, somewhere...someone got the impression I think storage should be open to all. THIS IS NOT THE CASE.

Did you not say....

First...change all tools in player built shops as "Allow All" regardless of plot permissions. Personally, it makes no sense to me that they should be anything else. Doing this would allow the following...

Make shops double as storage structures, with their stack/bulk based on their tier (Could be done with dragon lair shops as well, but with a little more coding)

As far as we and anyone else knows, it is impossible to change permissions for 1/2 of a structure, and yet, leave the other half something different. How can you Allow All on one-half of a building, but Deny All the other half?

[Fierce]

Can't storage just be the same as any other GH, house or silo? If you wish to make it private, guild only or public is your choice...

[Aaelefein]

As far as we and anyone else knows, it is impossible to change permissions for 1/2 of a structure, and yet, leave the other half something different. How can you Allow All on one-half of a building, but Deny All the other half?

This is quite simple to respond to...look at Guild Houses! What is a shrine but a tool? And it is activated just like a tool. I have a plot in Bristugo where anyone can use the Shrine, but only the storage is accessible by guild members.

So it's not a problem.