The death of a REAL Istaria.

[CallakDW]

It saddens me to state this, but istaria was more real to me before the merge than after, and it continues to get more artificial.

At one time resources types and monster levels were mixed instead of zoned. Monsters roamed the world and collected followers and attacked towns. Dragon's had to reduce themselves to Kutit form to enter buildings. This old world could have been so much more than it is today. And there are other things that I am sure I'm not mentioning.

Today we have level zones, resource zones, dragons are allowed to go places that their model should not allow, people using shrink commands that should have never been released to the public.

What is the blame for these changes? I blame lazy people that see the game as a group of objects to interact with rather than a fantasy world that is supposed to have logic rules, and behaviors that everyone has to abide by. Logic people. Not everyone is just sitting down and interacting with nodes, machines and mobs. Some of us are actually interacting with a malachite outcropping, deer, metal oar, or wolves that the graphic represents in our minds. They are supposed to act a sertain way, and if they don't it spoils the illusion. What is the point of playing an MMORPG if you turn it into an artificial game instead of a world with rules you have to follow? It seems that most want things a little easier instead of a little more real, so the world becomes more and more artificial until it's no longer a world, it's just a game that would make no logical sense as a world.

For instance, and this is an extreem case, why don't we just make it so you can run over a node, and it automatically jumps into your backpack? Why? Because ore is not a living creature that would do that without you getting it. It would make crafint life a whole lot easier wouldn't it?

[Velea]

Pssssttt.. Callak, Istaria is a fantasy world. Fantasy worlds have their own set of "rules", not those that God created when He made the Earth.

[CallakDW]

Pssssttt.. Callak, Istaria is a fantasy world. Fantasy worlds have their own set of "rules", not those that God created when He made the Earth.

There is only so far you can take an fantasy excuse without it not seeming like a emersive world Velea. Things like dragons squeezing into tiny buildings to craft and going through walls because they are shrunk down enough to fly through a window kind of is streaching it.

Kutit form is magic too after all. It was created because dragons needed to be able to do bipedish things form time to time. This kind of thing makes sense to me. But now it's pointless. This was a rule that was broken when the dragon footprint was changed and the shrink command was adopted, in quite an artificial manor, and not through istarian magic.

[Shian]

I would like to see deer spook. My dragon can fit just fine in a machine. She probably still will when she becomes Ancient because that huge ancient size thing is a player mod and not part of the game-what a normal unmodded person sees.

[CallakDW]

I would like to see deer spook. My dragon can fit just fine in a machine. She probably still will when she becomes Ancient because that huge ancient size thing is a player mod and not part of the game-what a normal unmodded person sees.

Your head doesn't go through the roof? I can't remember my adult days that well.

[Shian]

Nope. I can take screenies and post em here when I get off work if you like and Shian's quite tall for an adult.

[CallakDW]

It's just too bad there isn't some real use for Kutit these days. It really is pointless other than using it as a courtasy, but there is more to this thread than just the Kutit issue now.

[Justa Mirage]

Callak my friend, your words have meaning but there is also debate.

Just like Yoda telling Luke in Empire Strikes Back, you take with you that what you need.

Basically it's this, you bring to Istaria your ability to ignore the way the game is tiered level wise, and the way the game mechanics have been tweaked so players can have the lazy way of play.

You bring to the table 'your' role playing. Before going into a building, change into khutit and walk in. Make comments when you see an ancient dragon stuffed into a building of, "Hey how did you squeeze in here?" or "/em squeezes past <character> trying to get into the vault keeper"

Yes, the mob locations were dummiefied to striping. I remember the days, when you went out of a newbie town and found maggots, then wolves, then golems. Just outside of Tazoon were level 5-10 fire beetles and as you went a little farther out, level 30 bronze, slate, sandstone golems.

I do miss the randomness of mobs in Istaria, but it is the way of newer MMORPGS now unfortunately. Many of the recent ones I have played guide you like sheep to the "tiered" areas for your level. It may not be so obviously "striped" like Aradoth is, and you won't be surprised when you are wandering around Augendell and see the level of mobs nearby.

[CallakDW]

You bring to the table 'your' role playing. Before going into a building, change into khutit and walk in. Make comments when you see an ancient dragon stuffed into a building of, "Hey how did you squeeze in here?" or "/em squeezes past <character> trying to get into the vault keeper"

Yes, but don't you see? The next logical question for the charactor to ask is "why can't I do that?". As a player I know why, but ICly the other person shouldn't be able to. I'm not going to want to answer to myself or another: "Oh I'm just roleplaying that I can't fit in here."

[Velea]

And the answer to that is simply, Callak. Your character either has not learned, or was not born with the innate ability to do so, depending on the explanation.

We can't all do the same things in real life either, now can we?

And no, I don't feel it is a "weak explanation". Some dragons have learned how to shrink themselves without changing form (Khutit changes form as well as shrinks you), where as others haven't.

There truly isn't anything you can't explain away with roleplay. The only question is do you accept the roleplay that others are offering up. And each individual has to decide that. For example, when I was playing on Order one day, a roleplay was started where someone came in and began destroying the town of Kion, including killing NPC's. (Obviously not "really" because there's no game mechanic for that.) Personally, not something I see as happening either, so I simply did not participate in the roleplay... I ignored it, basically, despite the fact that it was happening right around me. To those involved, however, it was very real. (Now how they explained long term that the NPC's "came back" after being dead so they could use them again, I don't know. And maybe they didn't. Maybe in their Istaria, Kion is still destroyed and they don't use it, I don't know.)

I guess what I'm saying is that you can choose to explain or complain. (Words chosen because they rhyme.) Istaria isn't a setting that is restricted by any constraints but those of the designers and the players. LoTRO is restricted by what Tolkien wrote, for example. Anarchy Online and EVE are restricted (somewhat anyway) to "earth type" physics and rules (though as they are both futuristic, they can get away with some stretching). Second Life is completely limited to "earth type" rules because it is meant to be an alternate earth scenario (at least from what I know of it). So just like you wouldn't expect to see a dragon in Second Life, you aren't limited to a dragon in Istaria having to "fit" into a building without the use of some magic in order to craft.

At least, that's how I see it.

[Hoberton]

Looks at the title of this thread. "The death of a REAL Istaria." My understanding was that this was a game. I did not know I was entering a REAL world. Everyone is an individual playing this game. You may play all you want and roleplay as IF this was a real world. But it all comes down to one undeniable fact. None of this is real. It is a game.

[CallakDW]

I guess I can't argue if that is the way the devs see things, it is not however how I see things. The more rules that are set the more solid the world becomes. RP is not really supposed to change the world, RP is supposed to take place IMO within the guidlines that the world has set up, even though I'm well aware there are parties that roleplay well outside istarian lore. There aer also parties that are very annoyed when they encounter these parties.

I've made my feelings known. They will not change on this matter. However I'm still curious about everyone elses opinion. Think I'll crawl back in my hole now.

[CallakDW]

Looks at the title of this thread. "The death of a REAL Istaria." My understanding was that this was a game. I did not know I was entering a REAL world. Everyone is an individual playing this game. You may play all you want and roleplay as IF this was a real world. But it all comes down to one undeniable fact. None of this is real. It is a game.

I would like to emagine or even believe that it is for the brief time that I play Hoberton. I want it feel like it's more than jsut a game, that's why I play to loose myself in another world. That's why it's called a MMORPG. Massive Multiplayer ROLEPLAYING game.

[Hoberton]

I would like to emagine or even believe that it is for the brief time that I play Hoberton. I want it feel like more than a game. That's why it's called a MMORPG. Massive Multiplayer ROLEPLAYING game.

MMORPG. Massive Multiplayer Online Roleplaying GAME.

[CallakDW]

Hoberton, I find it pointless to discuss this with you because you obviously see at as nothing other than a game. Yes it is a game. But when I play it it should not feel like one. You were the one that stated in my deer thread that the deer is nothing more than a node to you after all.

[AmonGwareth]

I think the one thing to keep in mind is that everyone (devs and players) has their own ideas of what makes a game fun, of what makes a world feel alive, and what makes or breaks your "willing suspension of disbelief".

Unlike many other games, Istaria has always been a sort of living world, growing and evolving. Sometimes not necessarily for the better, but always in tune to the beliefs and ideas of those playing and those developing it. All we can do, as players and devs, is to continue to play and develop it and try to make it as best we can.

If it reaches the point where we can no longer do that, then perhaps we (any of us) have reached the end of our journey. I for one hope that you can find it within yourself to continue playing. But I do understand your frustration.

The pre-merge Istaria was indeed a wondrous place. There were some very valid concerns raised during the merge process that resulted in the tiering (that being there was little room to add higher tier resources). Unfortunately other factors conspired to create a world that was less inspired and appealing than what went before. But, that is the past and can never come again. We are here in the present and we can look to the future and hope that we can all continue to better the game and Istaria.

I did want to add that we tend to gloss over the imperfect parts of our memories. And the pre-merge Istaria was filled with many imperfect parts. The new Istaria has its issues, that is for sure, but certain areas are in my opinion far better than they were pre-merge.

[CallakDW]

Why can it never come again? I'm not sure I believe that.

[LOVWYRM]

I feel your frustration, Callak.

But times change, and we have to change too.
Nothing stays the way it once was (isen`t that what the elder say, when they tell us about the good old days?^^)
I know it`s not that simple, and I know too, that it sounds kinda banal.
Also does: "Life`s what you make it"
Especially the life in a mmorpg.
But I think, that is the key.
We are Istaria, and there is still room for lots of magic and individual fancy here.
I, e.g. use Khutit form, when I talk to a biped, I `m close to. I want to look in
his /her eyes then

So do not give up, enjoy what you like, and be curious about the things to come.
(omg- it could have been my Grandma, who wrote this^^)

[LaughingOtter]

I liked premerge Istaria a lot better myself. However, what's done is done, and at the time, it was what needed to happen.

Fixing that 'layered' feeling is part of the tier revamps. We have not forgotten those, but right now our emphasis is the Blighted Labyrinth and the plot revamp & reclaim.

[CallakDW]

I do appreciate the Developer interation here, thank you.