Gatherer - The root of all evil

[BardicOne]

Wow! Thanks for the info on the mushrooms. I had no idea they gave so much exp! Now a couple of questions: What can one do with the fungus strips once they are made? And does anyone have a listing of mushroom patches? Preferably Tiers 1 thru 3. Thanks!

~Lyonas, of Blight

[Shian]

A NEW player (someone without access to the right knowledge of what to level in terms of THREE other schools first and everthing else) won't know all that stuff. I mean, let's be honest.. what player would take gatherer from the start after having read this thread?

Hopefully nobody.

So that kind of cancels out anyone that would
1. Be knowledgable enough to be on the forums.
2. Know enough about the game to get all that gear and what-not.
3. Has a lick of sense after getting the right information (which I never had, but managed to figure out what could be done to try to fix it)

A brand new player with a lick of sense would do what the game tells them to do and level one of the basic schools



Hmm.. says 'blacksmith' 'outfitter' and 'scholar' Wait! I know! I'm going to go try gatherer as my first school!

The person in the above example that you are arguing to just did the bare minimum to get to the class. A truley new player would do what the game suggest they do and work a basic class first. (Oh noes bootstrapping! ) Don't even have to read the thread or know about the gear or any of that stuff. Just do what the game tells you.

[Arietna]

nice job Weston. I'm now tempted to try and level Gatherer a bit more

I'm rather missing Istaria and think I've been away long enough, sp as my 6 monthly subs have just gone out of my bank account, I probably ought to use em

oh well back to vb.net and SPORE and web development tomorrow, Istaria tonight..

[Weston]

Since it seemed to help a few people, I figured I'd follow up my earlier comments with the next phase, and throw in a couple of new wrinkles.

Levelling Gatherer from 1-20 with no other schools to build off of took roughly 9 hours without outside help other that someone to make basic tools, clothing and a disk, which things are to be expected in a social environment.

My next experiment was to see if I could pick up the pace doing Miner from 1-20 which having Gatherer helps not at all, excepting the ability to wear the Tier One Cargo Gear, and furthermore was able to add a Tarbashes Sandstone Disk. The biggest change was that I got another character help with the mining of materials, while I did all the processing and cashing in of Quests. Along the way, I took careful notes at a couple of levels, and some of those comments may be helpful to someone.

The results: total time was reduced to about 5-1/2 hours for levels 1-20.

Levels 1-10: 1 hour
Level 11: 20 mins
Level 12: 10 mins
Level 13: 25 mins
Level 14: 15 mins
Level 15: 20 mins
Level 16: 25 mins
Level 17: 20 mins
Level 18: 30 mins
Level 19: 45 mins
Level 20: 60 mins

From levels 11 to 20, the biggest variables are: 1) How many quests are you able to do for full xp, as compared to half xp for any # over 10 completions. 2) How far must one go to complete those 'full xp' quests. Obviously, if it takes twice as long to a full xp quest as a half xp quest, might as well do the closer one for half.

I did all these in Parsinia with the Miner Trainer (Raine) there, who's right next to the Gatherer Trainer.

Suggestion: Get a FULL disk and backpack of materials. For the early levels, just cash in batches of 50 materials as quickly as you can. Later on, of course, you need to process those materials to make batches of 15 of each product, like Bronze Bars, Malachite Gems, etc.

During the processing phase, leave the full disk of raw material at the crafting station. Use a player-made crafting station (for the inherent bonuses) if it's not much further than the public one. One notable exception here is the Smelter which is in the building right next to where the Miner Trainer is. Took about 30 seconds per load, back and forth from there. In Parsinia, there's currently a Jewelry Shop near enough to process those gems at about 50 seconds per round trip. Even after the first 10 trips, that's still 530 xp and 100 copper per 50 seconds. It adds up. BTW - one reason it's possible to do those round trips in 50 seconds is, you do NOT need to enter the building that the Trainer (Raine) is in... just do the following: Leave the Chat window with her OPEN. After accepting the quest to make 15 Gems, run over to the shop, craft the gems, run back and press 'G' to cash in the quest, and 'G' again to initiate the next one. Rinse and Repeat.

For the record, with a T1 Tarbash SS Disk and a set of T1 Cargo, my char was able to hold 1000 uncut gems on the disk and 283 gems on her person. That's enough for 42 trips, which generates enough to do ONE complete level at 18, or 19, and almost on 20. Levels 18 and 19 took me less time than 20 because on each of those, I was able to do several quests with a resource that gave full xp at first. At 20, I had no such opportunities remaining, which requires more total trips to level.

Oh, and one last thing.. if you need to select the Trainer from OUTSIDE the building, you only need to know their name. In this case, if I accidently 'unselected' the trainer ( like to cast Swift Feet on myself ), simply approach the building and type: /select Raine

Betcha didn't all know that. ;p

Hope this helps, and happy Mining.

Wes

[QuO]

Edit: I should add that I did not know any of the tricks for leveling Gatherer as posted above when I did it. I did it the hard way partly out of ignorance and partly because I enjoyed leveling that way more than others. We didn't have all of the knowledge or resources to play with back then either though I'm not complaining. So below is not aimed at the educators in this thread, which should be obvious I think.

OMG!! This IS so much over discussed (and I'm sorry I only got thru the first 3 pages before I was ready to pull my hair out so maybe someone has already said this).

I was one of the first L100 Gatherers AND it was my FIRST school to 100 when I had practically no other schools beyond 20. I was a L26 Cleric out there Gathering YEW to level with. I pretty much had ZERO help and didn't need it. Not being blind I saw the value in being able to gather and process about 1/2 of the planet's resources better than any other class.

Gatherer and Miner are SUPPOSED to be the hardest/slowest craft classes to level!!!! ... and not by a narrow margin.

They are the ONLY classes (as far as I know) that can get to 3:1 processing Tier 6 resources. That puts them in a league of their own. Why the hell would anyone expect them to be even remotely close to as easy as the other classes. Did someone who thinks Gatherer is way too hard read where you can get Halibut, Steelsilk, Thornwood, Geostone and Radient Essence (all Tier SIX) resources better than any others? Count how many other schools it takes to build and gather those at only 80% the effectiveness of the Gatherer and tell me the school should not be difficult as hell to level!

Geez, I'm sorry for blowing up but this is ridiculous. Nothing is perfect but this certainly NOT an area where the devs need to focus.

One last bit... this may not be for everyone but it has sure worked for me and can for others. If you aren't a total solo/introverted/do-it-all-yourselfer you can pretty much get anything you want just by leveling Gatherer and Miner (This would assume you prefer to Adventure than Craft as one scenario and that you can find others to make things for you... it is more true with construction but can apply to almost anything I believe).

The most difficult part of any construction job is the harvesting of materials. When I needed construction work done I just had to go gather the materials and get them in a handy location for a friend to process them. The friend does the easy work, I do the hard part... and that is always true with Gatherers and Miners. Crafting is basically easy in itself. It is the building of skills (leveling) that takes up the vast majority of the time and guess who is most valuable there... ya Gatherers and Miners. They do all the dirty work better than anyone else to get things done much faster than would be otherwise possible.

I'm sure some would prefer to shorten medical school by a couple of years and get straight to being a doctor that much faster but I'm not going to spend any more time than I have here trying to explain to them why they are wrong. Such principles apply to all things worth achieving.

[Mensar]

Not to start my rant all over agian.. but I couldn't agree more about this being overdiscussed.

This thread died when it got derailed from a suggestion to bring a school more in-line with the exp the other classes get by boosting quest turn in exp, base processing exp and/or allowing for "collect" quests on both sides of the tier, not just the first 10 levels of a tier.. and it became some kind of a prove the OP wrong about how long it takes to level a school using all the things he said HAD to be used in order to level it.

And the completely unrelated thread continues unabated.

The only question that still remains is..

What does this have to do with how leveling gatherer by ONLY processing base material (like it's intended.. there are no cooked fish formula, no hide formulas.. just bars, boards and spools) and how slow the exp is when used in that regard when compared to other classes?

Whether or not Miner can be powerleveled really isn't any more relevant than if/how gatherer can be powerleveled. The point of gatherer is to level AS YOU USE IT... y'know? If you HAVE to find a way to powerlevel something.. then something is wrong? Nobody gets this.

But you guys do whatever.. I was just surprised to see this thread floating back at the top here. They should really give people that create a thread a way to delete it.

[Logikality]

I may have misread your last post, but I would like to add some information that you may not know even thugh you have been around since beta (I have as well but there are still things I am learning.) When you craft an item be it Bar, Brick, Orb, Weapon, Armor or Tool. Your xp per item is based on Base skill. Since Miner and Gatherer get 10 per lvl for processing raw resources instead of 8 for Blacksmith. It will take longer to gain a level just processing raw resources, but once you hit Tier 2 resureces you will be close to 4-1 if not at 4-1 or better and it just gets beter as you go up in Tiers.

A little background info. I started a new character in Feb 2004 as a support character to my then level 66 outfitter. I didn't know that you could use gems. So I was leveling on Bars until level 35 miner. I didn't play that character often so it was around April 2004 (the server merge) that I started playing that character regularly. I finished off Tier 2 in the iron field East of Chiconis because that was the only place you could get iron at the time. When I started Tier 3 I Tried mining nickel in Aughendell and porting to Chiconis to craft the bars but it took so long to get a level I tried gems. At that time the only place to get gems was out of Desert's Edge. It was very hard and costly because I had to port somewhere else to craft because the plot auctions hadn't started yet. I had actually finised level 60 there and went on to Dralk for the platinum field. I did that until level 80 miner. Then moved on to mithril until level 87. The fastest way to level miner for me was to stay in the field and delete or give away the resources I was crafting instead of draging them to a pawnbraker or a cosigner. In all of this all I had miner as a solo crafting school and one adventure school that was about 15-20 levels lower than miner at the time.

Had I done what others recomended taking a more basic class that can do more for a level (Blacksmith) I would have shaved about 4-6 months off the time it took to get those levels. In total I have 4 craft level 100s, 6 over 80, and 3 over 60. the rest are 10-60.

Sorry for being so winded about this, but the schools work as intended (reread the first paragraph if you missed it.) And if the xp ratio were to change all the classes would get more xp for making a Bar, Brick, Spool and others. And we would be in the same spot we are now.

Instead of thinking that leveling gatherer is slow, look at how you would have to spend until level 40 outfitter on Tier 1 resources just to get 3-1 on Tier 2. Unlike Gather where you will be 3-1 at level 32. And that is going off base skill. When you get 2-1 on Tier 1 things look a lot better xp wise. Oh and if your using a Beginner +25 to skill, Journeyman +50, or Expert +75 shop it drops the levels you need so you can get 2-1 faster.

Things are a lot easier now with a player shop that you don't have to have a miner or gatherer school to get to 2-1 or can gather at max efficency. Oh and don't forget potions for gathering. If your not using those you are wasting time gathering less than 100% a swing. A someone else said Gatherer and Miner are best for Tier 6 resources.

Right now you would be better off leveling Blacksmith and Outfitter, using a player shop and a potion.

Edit: well I just read page 4 and Weston has it right. It does look easier now that the confectioner revamp has made fish a good option.

[Guaran]

I think the OP was more than anything suggesting the trainer craft quests for exp be looked at. I do not recall how much exp they give (seems to be low, they work good at the beginning of a new tier but thats about it) but I will mention that the craft quests are a slow way to get exp in ANY craft school. I believe the crafter trainer quests were put in more as a way to earn lore tokens, which when game launched was meant to be the primary method for obtaining formulas.

Changing the exp given per bar, etc would likely be bad and have ripple effect to other schools' leveling. I would be against changes like that unless all the craft schools are re-done with primary skill system. (In which case no other schools than Miner would get exp for making bricks or bars, etc). Even then, I do believe miner and gatherer would be (should be) tougher schools to level in relation to the others. (IMHO)

As far as leveling miner, I believe I went from 60 something to 100 on t5 gems, out at fire island. Making and deleting. I can't recall what level I was but it was as soon as I could process t5 gems. I might think I had t5 gemworking from jeweler or some other school. But gems are definately a relatively quick way to level. Moreso than the quests. I also processed about 7.5k of adamantium ore (saved up from mithril bonus or looted off umyarr over a 3 year period, before the nodes were added) once I got to 3:2:1 on adamantium and i think it was worth a couple levels too. These days making adamantium might be decent exp (if you need the bars). Flat out leveling on t6 gems probably slow due to the hauling time needed to get it to a machine. You could try it but I wouldn't think it would be best exp/time. and t6 gems are not used for anything, so it would be delete/pawn material.

These days lore tokens are rarely needed. And for a school like miner or gatherer, since the base forms like metal bar, stone brick, are needed by many other schools, therefore making it likely for a chacter to already have those forms when starting miner or gatherer, one possible change to the crafting quests given to these schools could be the lowering or eliminating of the lore token from the quest rewards, and increasing the exp. iirc a typical craft quest returns some exp plus 3 lore tokens for that tier. An attempt to make it more viable might be to lower the tokens given to 1, raise the exp some. Even with these changes (if they were implemented), the OP should realize that these schools STILL are considered "Prestige" and that they would work best by taking a base crafting school to 20 as mentioned previously. This would give you many of the needed forms to start out, and some base skill. Then these trainer quests might be more worthwhile.

[Justa Mirage]

Gatherer and Miner were supposed to be "secondary" classes to assist in the big world projects. Gatherers and Miners were supposed to bring the builders the raw materials so the builders could make and apply to the structures. A symbiotic relationship between "Gatherer/miner" and "builder" (The lumber truck shows up, dumps the lumber, the carpenter then makes them into timbers and braces and applies them.)

This concept died out probably due to lack of world projects or the fact that with teched gear and cogs, gathering raw materials really didn't matter if you had 800 in quarrying or 1000 in quarrying (for example). Someone with a full set of cargo-cloth / scales / jewelry etc. can shore up the 200 point loss because they aren't getting the extra 2 points per level a Gatherer / Miner does.

There are few things mentioned in this thread that makes Gatherer / Miner something to level. Mine was confectioner class. Preparing does not go beyond 800 for a confectioner. Even outfitted with full gear and an expert machine, I am barely at 1/2 optimal for preparing Swordfish or Halibut. Fishing stops at 800 also, and to fish tier VI Halibut, getting 1,1,1,1,2,2,1,1,2,3,3,1,1,1 is just not very productive.

The only way to get preparing skill to go beyond 800 base is to level Gatherer.

As the OP put it, Gatherer / Miner needs some XP love when it comes to trying to level the class. Deleting all of the processed gems / bars / wood / spools / orbs / tannin / etc. because you can't use it after you make it really hurts. Taking the time to sell it cuts back on your XP per hour goals, or if you are lucky, you have a plot with open silos to dump your processed goods for guild use later and/or have a guild member tag along leveling a craft.

I tagged along with a guildie making yew boards for Gatherer. I took the boards and made tools and deconned them. it was a win-win for that.

[Logikality]

Looking back I would not have deleted the platinum if there were someone else there and I was not just going to level miner. At the time it was just going to be a solo miner/gatherer character. I didn't know where the Tier 4 gems were and didn't find out until much later. I also did the Fire Isle Tier 5 gems deleting to get Jeweler to 100. It took 2 month not including the time I took off (I did 1-60 in 10 hours, then 60-80 in 2 weeks, then took a break for a year or more and when I came back finished off Jeweler.) If I had things to do over it would have been Saritova for T5 gems and making jewelry.

I really don't think there is a problem with Miner and Gatherer. If I rememeber a post on Tazoon.com long ago it was reccomended to take miner and gatherer about 10 or 20 levels lower than the main crafting class you wanted for the plus to gathering skills. Also they were reccomeded for a tinkerer to take because they didn't get gathering or processing skills (besides earthencraft.)