Religion - this I believe

[awdz]

In response to another's post on the Dragon Cave forums, I composed the following. I would be interested in seeing what others believe as well, asking that any who comment on the beliefs posted please respect the deep feelings that will go along with them. I have "J (the son)" in place of the name because something replaced the name with "*****" everywhere throughout. How odd to consider that obscene. :-/

Please read the following through twice before commenting on it. This is simply what I believe; I expect you to form your own opinions – though if they coincide with mine, such makes for less conflict between us.

I believe there is one God, creator of everything. I believe we were created to have an obedient, loving relationship with God. Here’s why:

Everyone has intense desires/needs that are based on how we as a race are put together. In general, each person feels hunger, and must eat for nourishment. Each person has a need to breathe, to take in oxygen and expel carbon dioxide. Each person feels a desire to reproduce, to expel wastes, to sleep. Each of these is important for survival of the species, for if not enough individuals do all of these in a healthy manner, there would be no more people. And for each of these desires/needs, there is something to meet them in a healthy manner. Otherwise, the desire/need would be bred out of the race over time or the race would die out.

Similarly, all across various cultures and geographies, there is found a desire/need for spiritual fulfillment. As every other expressed desire/need is required for survival of the species, so too must this spiritual drive be. And since the vast majority of cultures proclaim the fulfillment comes from a great power that was responsible for all of creation, this is most likely the healthy source of fulfilling them.

Now, add to that the sense of right and wrong that pervades all cultures. For something to be common to all, it most likely comes from a time before the cultures were separated – presumably creation or very shortly thereafter. Yet judgment requires a standard; from where did a standard of right and wrong come? Not the individual, for often what is considered “right” contradicts the self-interest of the individual (e.g., trying to rescue someone from danger by putting one’s self into that danger). So I look to the great power of the creator.

If the creator has a standard of right and wrong, then presumably the creations are designed to follow the “right” path. To be healthy, we need to follow the “right” path. But we have the ability to make choices, to choose the “wrong” path. Thus, to be healthy, on the “right” path, we must choose to be obedient to the creator’s standard. To do otherwise is unhealthy, or “sin”.

My assumption is that the creator would not have bothered creating us just for us to falter into nothingness; the creator wishes for us to be healthy, to survive – loves us. Thus we were created to be in an obedient, loving relationship with the creator.

Unfortunately, humans have a long history of not obeying the standards of the creator. We display unhealthy behaviors. The creator, wanting for us to survive, then must step in to redirect us to the “right” path.

The first unhealthy behavior, or sin, described in the Bible was disobedience. There was one rule, not to eat the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and it was disobeyed. The healthy, obedient relationship with the creator was broken.

I believe this is what J (the son) is: God intervening on earth in human form to restore us into a healthy, obedient relationship with God. In the form of J (the son), God showed us how to live in a spiritually healthy manner. Even when humankind tortured and killed the human form, the creator interjected again in the same form (J (the son) came back) to emphasize to us how important it is for us to turn to the “right” path of obedience to the creator.

This is why J (the son) said, “I am the way, the truth and the life; no one shall enter the kingdom save by me.” He was saying that the only way into a healthy relationship with God is to be obedient to God’s will, to recognize that God cares enough to intervene for us to be saved from death. No matter what we may have done in rebellion, if we become obedient to God, God will accept us. It is the healthy form in which God created us. Anything else is unhealthy and leads to spiritual death.

The greatest commandment, “Love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your mind, all your soul and all your strength.”

Please note that each and every human on earth is God’s creation, God’s child. God wants every one of us – you, me, our friends, our acquaintances, those we find odd, and those we detest – to be in a healthy relationship with God. In general, everyone tries to do what is right, but none of us understands all aspects of every situation. Generally, we barely understand more than our own perspective. So, we get into conflicts trying to do what we think is right, in different ways and seemingly with opposite goals.

But each of us is precious to God, wanted and loved.
How dare you not take good care of yourself? God loves YOU!
How dare any of us harm our enemies? God loves THEM!

The second greatest commandment, “Love your neighbor as yourself.” To me, this means helping them grow into the healthy individuals God created them to be. It requires understanding of their situation. It is not doing everything for them just because you do it for yourself; it is healthier for them to do what they can, and they many not need what you need. Unfortunately, I am a lousy neighbor, mainly because I do not pay attention.

By the way, I believe in equality between man & woman because I am a Christian, not in spite of it. According to scripture, God created man and woman as partners, equals: in God’s image, male and female. Yes, there was fall from grace and God told Eve that her husband would rule over her; this has been applied to all women over the ages. But then J (the son) came, to restore us to the condition in which we were created. He told women as well as men that they were forgiven (most notably the one who told him that even dogs under the table received scraps). And when J (the son) forgives, it is not only a little bit, or half way. It is complete. Thus, men and women are restored to the equal status in which created.

Also, God is neither male nor female; God created male and female. It is like the clay cup and the clay plate in a place setting arguing about whether the potter is a cup or a plate. God is even further beyond our understanding than that. Yes, I believe J (the son) is a manifestation of God; the potter could use a clay-coated hand to hold beverages & foodstuffs in demonstration of what the cup and plate were to do. That would not make the potter a cup or a plate.

God is with us at all times and in all places. I (and apparently most everyone else?) just do not perceive God very clearly. I think in part it is because I am distracted by so many material things; it is easier for me to realize God’s handiwork when I take time away from those distractions to ponder about God.

I do not demand that all people say, “J (the son) is God”. I simply explain to them why I believe it so that they can make an informed choice for themselves. To demand someone do as I do, is to put myself first instead of God. That is where I believe that many “Religious types” fall into the wrong path and drive others away from the healthy relationship with God.

I recently read the comic showing an apparent atheist holding a gun to people’s heads in order to tell them their faith was wrong. Talk about forcing your beliefs on someone. That comic sends me the message that those who do not believe in God are all about themselves, even violent to prove they are better than others. If I had not seen that the same mistake was repeated throughout history by both those professing Christian faith and those who do not, I would stereotype atheists that way. I do not really wonder that some stereotype Christians similarly. It just seems a very sad limitation on something that could be very beautiful instead.

In the end, it is not between you and me. It is between you and God. I am both delighted and terrified at the prospect of facing God directly; delighted because I know God loves me and wants to help me into a healthy relationship with God, terrified because I know I have hurt others (whom God loves) and I still struggle with my ego wanting to be on top.

The primary (but not only) written influences on my faith have been The Bible (Revised Standard Version or NIRV mostly), C.S. Lewis (especially “Mere Christianity”), and Martin Luther. I was raised attending a Lutheran church, but currently attend a Methodist church - mainly because it is close to where I live and the doctrine Wesley preached matched what I was taught.

I leave you with this poem attributed to Saint Teresa of Calcutta, as it touched me deeply:

Do It Anyway

People are often unreasonable, illogical and self-centered;
Forgive them anyway.
If you are kind, people may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives;
Be kind anyway.
If you are successful, you will win some false friends and some true enemies;
Succeed anyway.
If you are honest and frank, people may cheat you;
Be honest and frank anyway.
What you spend years building, someone could destroy overnight;
Build anyway.
If you find serenity and happiness, they may be jealous;
Be happy anyway.
The good you do today, people will often forget tomorrow;
Do good anyway.
Give the world the best you have, and it may never be enough;
Give the world the best you’ve got anyway.

You see, in the final analysis, it is between you and God;
It was never between you and them anyway

[Teto Frum]

All i really have too say about religion is that i believe everyone has the right and freedom to practise whatever the believe in, within the bounds of civil laws in whatever country your in.

I judge people not based on colour, gender, sexual orientation , generational, and certainly not on religous views. Thats why i know someday all these problems will go away, the have online , online you judge by how the person acts and treats you. Its our senses that drive hatred, not our brains.

Believe whatever you want its all about faith. Despite what anyone believes the only concrete fact about religion is more people have died fighting in the name of their lord, than by any other means on the planet.

[Arietna]

my thoughts on religion -

why do people who follow a particular religion assume you MUST have a religion/faith to have ethics and morals?

It's perfectly possible to have a good moral code and ethical system without bringing any sort of religion into it.

[Takora Drakan]

my thoughts on religion -

why do people who follow a particular religion assume you MUST have a religion/faith to have ethics and morals?

It's perfectly possible to have a good moral code and ethical system without bringing any sort of religion into it.

Amen Arietna! Hmm was amen appropriate now?

[Dremora]

Let me be the first to mention that this thread was probably a bad idea and will (probably) get locked quite fast. BUT, I'll give my 2 cents.

I agree with the basic thing behind your OP, Awdz: be honest, be good, etc. I personally can do this without "knowing" there is a god watching me, and to me, gods are such an unimaginative and unthought-provoking concept. Life and the universe are just so much more amazing when you come to realize it has no ultimate purpose; no creator.

Similarly, all across various cultures and geographies, there is found a desire/need for spiritual fulfillment. As every other expressed desire/need is required for survival of the species, so too must this spiritual drive be. And since the vast majority of cultures proclaim the fulfillment comes from a great power that was responsible for all of creation, this is most likely the healthy source of fulfilling them.

Now, add to that the sense of right and wrong that pervades all cultures. For something to be common to all, it most likely comes from a time before the cultures were separated – presumably creation or very shortly thereafter. Yet judgment requires a standard; from where did a standard of right and wrong come?

You actually already answered your own question - the sense of right and wrong, cooperation, morals, whatever you want to call it - emerged as a requirement for our survival as a species. Most, if not all, other animals possess this as well; chimpanzees, bonobos, dolphins, and elephants readily come to mind.

And as a final thought, it is quite silly to censor "J". What if that was a poster's real name?

[Kumu Honua]

Religion is even worse to discuss than politics are.

Where I stepped in and discussed politics a little bit. I will not do so with religion.

[LaughingOtter]

I hope the conversation stays on the positive things each poster gets out of their own religious or spiritual beliefs, because talking about personal religious experience is different from, and preferable to, arguing about religion.

This I believe: that the universe is not only stranger than we imagine, it's stranger than we can imagine; this applies also to the Maker of All Life. Accordingly, so long as our beliefs and actions are sincere, the Maker gives us points for trying. We're doing the best we can, after all.

[LOVWYRM]

"God has no religion"

Mahatma Gandhi

[Spirit]

LaughingOtter: "Accordingly, so long as our beliefs and actions are sincere, the Maker gives us points for trying. We're doing the best we can, after all."

OP: "In general, everyone tries to do what is right, but none of us understands all aspects of every situation. Generally, we barely understand more than our own perspective. So, we get into conflicts trying to do what we think is right, in different ways and seemingly with opposite goals."

Those two quotes basically summerise both the biggest strength (the fact that we can strive to try) and biggest weakness (not trying, or getting it wrong) of us as a race. Unfortunately it's all we can do, and 'points for trying' after all ... remembering that sometimes choosing Not to act might be the right choice.

It's all you can do, and in my opinion is what we're judged by both in life and whatever follows after (I don't believe in death being the end). Who that judge is? Well that will always be a mystery to any of us.

Rakku

[Kyrieath]

To go on the subject of what we believe....I suppose my outlook on things is firmly that of an agnostic. I believe there are higher powers...but I no longer look to any one religion or feel the need to assign them/it identities. I have my reasons for that, but suffice to say I've found my belief in my personal principles and spirituality as a human being rather than following any doctrine telling me what I must do to feel so just as fulfilling as some people find their named religion to be.

To each their own, as they say- if a person isn't comfortable with their life's spiritual path and aren't being forced to stay with it? They'll find one that suits them if given a chance to look. Maybe it'll have a name and a long history of doctrines, maybe it won't. Does it really matter as long as they're at peace with it?

[aine]

*Takes out her ten-foot pole and touches this topic*

I once knew what I believed. Now…I am less certain.

I once taught Sunday School, would rather pull out my thumbnails with pliers than miss church. I think the first harm was when I served as an Elder and discovered how politics ruled the Presbytery. Silly, naive me. But…religion is not faith and people will be people…and that is neither here nor there.

I teach, as some of you know, Middle School advanced (Gifted, high IQ) students. In so doing, I have met a rather diverse group of people. What a blessing! These children have taught me so much!

I once watched with delight as tiny Veena danced her Bharata Natyam Arangetram to the honor of her Hindu god Ganesha. She was perfection, to my eyes, and I felt sure Ganesha was pleased.

I dined on gefelte after listening to my little Kelly read the Torah, (not recite, as most do, she learned Hebrew and READ it!) at her Bat Mitzvah.

Then there was Wilson, quiet, sensible Wilson, who spoke perfect Mandarin (but only if you paid him a quarter, lol). I frequently rub the belly of the Buddah he gave me, although I doubt he’ll bring me luck.

Kevin, the scientist, big as a bear and gentle as a kitten, an atheist. He could explain why he felt as he did, and it all made perfect sense.

And then I realize…if what I once believed is true, Veena, Wilson, Kevin, Kelly…all will suffer when they die. If it is true, all these beautiful, living miracles will be condemned to hell…

And so…it cannot be as I once thought. It is not. And I remain confused.

[velveeta]

very hestitant to join this convo, for prolly obvious reasons, so i will keep this short and sweet and flow on like the universe......

from a very young age, i studied most of the past and present religions of the world (certainly all the major ones), and i have come to the conclusion that:
there is (i very much hope) a higher power. call it what you will. i have felt its presence and movement in my own life personally, that's how i know.
my god does not waste - this means everything from life on other planets (why create or be the catalyst for a whole universe of creation and only put any sort of life on one small orb?) to reincarnation (see above argument - lots of peeps have died and will continue to do so, why create a brand new soul for each newborn?)
my god does not recognize one faith or religion as superior to any other - indeed, my god hates organized religion as much as i do.
my god is my god, and everyone must find or create their own god - it is not we who are created in 'his' image, it is he that is created in ours.

as always, i find the most profound statement about religion to come from a movie. in 'dogma' the muse serendipity states -
all religions have it wrong. it doesn't matter what you have faith in, just that you have faith!

[LaughingOtter]

I sympathize, Aine. I used to be a born-again Southern Baptist. Then I started asking some of the same questions you mention... The more answers I got, the less I liked what I'd been told was true. Years later, one of my tribal elders told me that, "The spirits know what's in your heart, and that's the most important thing. As long as your heart is right, you're on the Creator's road."

That was the answer I'd been looking for - the answer to the questions I started asking years earlier. Now, I look at people of other faiths & accept that they're on Creator's road as well - they just used a different on-ramp.

[aine]

That is beautiful, LO, and comforting. Thank you.

[Dremora]

"The spirits know what's in your heart, and that's the most important thing. As long as your heart is right, you're on the Creator's road."

Those have been my thoughts as well, even though I'm atheist. What kind of a god would punish someone just because they didn't believe? Just because they were brought up in the "wrong" religion? And in that case, if there is a god, there's no point in worrying about it as it makes no difference. Just live for yourself, your family, and your friends.

[Malaquion]

Personally, I feel it is open to question.

When I was very young, I believed in a god to some extent. Now, that has faded to a simple curiosity and a complete lack of knowledge.

I don't know whether there is a god or not, or whether there are any higher powers. (I'm a scientific person and believe in evolution, etc, but that's beside the point a bit.) Someday, I'm sure I will find out.

If there are gods, then they aid and guide other people, but not me. If you believe in a god, then they will be there for you.

That's my two coppers on the matter.

[C`gan]

I honestly have to opt-out of this thread. My beliefs require me to do no harm and no matter which "christian" denomination I've gone to, invariably I found fault and flaw or those groups found fault and flaw with me.

As another poster stated, faith is not religion. The Pharisees and Saducees had religion. The Son of Man had faith. Big difference and even bigger consequences.

That's all I can safely say.

[Charys Stormchild]

When I was little I went to a Baptist Sunday school, then my family moved to another town and the nearest junior school was Roman Catholic so I went there instead of a non-denominational school which I was used to, at this time I didn't attend a Sunday school. When I was in my early teens my parents returned to the Salvation Army and sent me to Sunday school at the local corps, much against my wishes.

All 3 of these religions told me different things about what was supposed to be the same god.

As a child I believed. As a teen I was confused by the different stuff people were telling me. As an adult I don't believe, I went through a period of agnosticism which now has become pretty much aetheism. Sadly I can't tell my deeply religious family this as they would be greatly upset.

I try to live a good life, not hurting anyone, but I do this because I believe it's right not because a high power says I should. Over the years I have worked with people of many faiths and found good and bad in all. I may not agree with someone's faith but it's their faith and I respect that.

Maybe I'm wrong and when I die I'll find out just how wrong, lol, all I know is my family have always found great comfort in their beliefs and, while it's not for me, I'll always be glad of that.

Being nice to each other makes for a better world, just wish more people would realise that and if everyone spent more time hugging there'd be a lot less pain around.

*Hugs everyone*

[gopher65]

1) Of God:
On the topic of god/gods/spirituality: I don't believe in any of them. I am a full Naturalist, believing in both Philosophical Naturalism and Methodical Naturalism (as well as in the continuity between philosophy and science: (true) philosophy finds questions - and then seeks an appropriate answer using the scientific method, science finds answers - and then seeks an appropriate question using the scientific method) (Wikipedia; Wiktionary).
__________________________________________________

2)Religion ≠ god:
Religion and god are two different concepts. In fact, they aren't even remotely linked. There are religions that do not worship any specific deity (Jainism - Wikipedia), and even a few that don't involve any form of spirituality (Non-Theistic Satanism - Wikipedia; Wiktionary; Wikinews).

I strongly dislike it when people attempt to draw a false link between organized corporate religion (ie, Christianity, Islam) and a God, god, gods, or even generic spirituality. Totally unrelated concepts. Don't confuse them.
__________________________________________________

3)My feelings about other people's belief in God/god/gods/spirituality:
I don't care.

I honestly don't. As long as I'm free to believe what I want, other people can believe what they want. However, this does come with a caveat: other people cannot tell me how to behave, or how not to behave, based on their own, personal moralistic system.

Everyone has a right not to be interfered with. I would go so far as to say that this is (or should be) the core law of any sane society. I can't interfere with you if you want to drink yourself to death... but you can't interfere with me by running me over with your car while you're drunk. The individual laws exist in an attempt to balance between the two people's rights.

Non-interference should be the code that we all live by.

So, in the end, as long as you don't try and press your moral values on me, I won't press mine on you.
__________________________________________________

4)Why I believe that all organized religion is intrinsically evil, in spite of (occasional) good intentions:
First, an almost unrelated bit of information:

I live in Canada. Over the past few decades, the Government of Canada has noticed an unfortunate - and growing - trend among people applying for immigration: they're getting swindled out of their money by con artists.

When someone attempts to emigrate from their country to Canada, as often as not they are very poor, with limited access to proper facilities (ie, library) of any type (or even the internet). With the limited information at their disposal, it is often very difficult for them to fully understand the process that they need to go through to file their immigration papers with the Government of Canada. It can be a rather long and complex process, and many people get lost in it. Some don't even know where to get the basic documents from, never mind how to fill them out.

But when comes along a nice man! He knows about these things. And, for a modest fee of <enter your life savings + 20% here>, he'll help you to file these papers! Of course, he won't be keeping that money himself. No ma'am. He's just a down-to-Earth honest gentleman, here to help you. No. That money goes to the Government of Canada. The Government of Canada *requires* that money to file the papers, donchano. Oh yes. So, just haaaaaaand over the money, yes, that's right... and we'll get started. Excellent!

Of course, the GoC doesn't require a 3rd party to file your papers for you; you can do it all by yourself. And while I've never filed for immigration, nearly all GoC documents can be found in handy fill-it-in-online PDF formats on GoC websites, for free.

It's really... unfortunate, because these people have no way of knowing that this isn't the way things are done. For all they know the GoC really *does* require all that money to file immigration papers. It's even more unfortunate because many of them are already dirt poor (hence their desire to emigrate from their home country), and they completely impoverish themselves by giving in to these hucksters .
____

Anyway, back to Why I Think Religion Is Evil:

When I ask people about their core beliefs, minus their religious traditions, most people tell me something like this:

"I believe in an all powerful, all seeing, all knowing God. I am but a child of this God, and s/he is the ultimate provider of all that I see, and all that I have."

Ok. This is your belief system. I don't agree, but I can accept that not everyone is like me, or thinks the same way that I do. Cool.

But I start to hit snags when I ask people the following series of Q&A:

Me: "Why do you go to <insert noun meaning "church" in said religion>"
Them: "In order to be closer to God. To be told God's will."

Me: "So, you aren't close to God right now? You don't know what God wants you to do?"
Them: "No, I'm always close to God. God is everywhere. And of course I know what God wants me to do. That's what the <insert holy text here> is for."

Me: "Then why do you go to church? Is it because the Word of God is so complex, vague, and indecipherable that you need help to figure it out?"
Them: "No, the Word of God is obvious to anyone who listens. That's the whole idea. I suppose that I go to church for spiritual guidance; I go to reinforce my beliefs, and to ask forgiveness/seek absolution for any... misguided steps that I may have taken in my life."

Me: "But why do you need to go to church for that?"
Them: "Because that's what churches are for. They help you in your struggles."

Me: "But... wait. I thought that you said that God was all-knowing, all-seeing, and all-powerful."
Them: "Yes."

Me: "Then why are you going to a HUMAN for spiritual help? Surely there is no one better to ask for guidance than God him/herself?"
Them: "But that's what churches are for!"

Me: "But churches are run by men! Men are susceptible to temptation and corruption. Just look at all the scandals that religions have had over recorded history. And those are just the ones that they weren't able to cover up! (And they always try, right? I mean, that's just human nature.)"
Them: "But that's what churches are for! I can't do it on my own!"

Me (frustrated): "Ok, let me try this from a different angle. Where do ministers/priests/imams/whatever get *their* guidance from?"
Them: "Straight from God."

Me: "Why can't you do the same?"
Them: "Because...... they are trained to do it. They've read the <insert holy text> cover to cover. They study religion. It's their job. They know how to talk to God."

Me: "But God is all-seeing, all-knowing, and all-powerful. If he is all of those things, then you don't have to "know" how to talk to God. Just talk, and s/he will hear, and understand."
Them: "errrr......."

Me: "And God should be just as willing to help you as s/he is to help some priest/whatever, right?"
Them:"Well......uh ...but ...... but that's what churches are for!"

Me: "..."
Them: "..."

Me: *walks away*
Them: "..."
____

Wait... so why can't you just talk to God yourself? Why do you need a Pope/Grand Ayatollah (or whatever) to do it for you? *Surely* God is capable of hearing you, and answering you. *Surely* God is just as capable of providing you with same direct guidance he gives some random priest. *Surely* God, a being that exists outside of time, isn't too busy to help each individual person (or not, as s/he choses, for her/his own purposes)? *Surely*, if "All Men Are Created Equal", that priest isn't somehow... more deserving of God's guidance than you are?
____

When I look at religions, all I see are corporations. Large, powerful, tax exempt (for the love of all that is chocolate why are they tax exempt???) corporations, but corporations nonetheless.

And what type of corporations are they? Why, they are pyramid scheme corporations! They exist for the sole purpose of syphoning money and power from their investors. What product do they sell? Why, peace of mind of course! Give money to them and you have the peace of mind of knowing that they are praying for you. Yay! What wonderful organizations these corrupt, multinational corporate religions are, aren't they?
____

Why do I say that *all* is evil? Because the core concept behind religion is evil. The purpose behind religion is to stand between people and their God/god/gods/spirituality, and to then convince people that no one can contact God without their (the religion's) help.

Reminds you of something, no? Yes. That little blurb that I wrote in the beginning of this section. The one about the con artists who stand between immigrants and the Canadian Government, and syphon money from the poor. Both those cons and religion use *identical* tactics, and exist for identical purposes: to convince people that they are somehow necessary - when in fact that aren't - and to then leech from their victims like the disgusting parasites that they are.

Good cannot be built upon a foundation of evil. In the end, the evil at the heart of the foundation will corrupt all good things that are built upon it.

[gopher65]

As a child I believed. As a teen I was confused by the different stuff people were telling me. As an adult I don't believe, I went through a period of agnosticism which now has become pretty much aetheism.

Atheism may have originally been a catchall "does not believe in God", but it doesn't mean that anymore (and, IIRC, in the very beginning it was a word used to describe monotheists, specifically Christians, because they didn't believe in many gods).

But now Atheism is something more specific; it is a specific philosophy. Essentially it is the mirror image of Deism. A Deist starts off describing their philosophy as, "I believe in a god/gods/spirituality, but even if god doesn't exist, that won't change the way I act. My actions are my own; if I am good it is because I *choose* to be good, not because I fear punishment ... (goes on with other stuff as well)". An Atheist's philosophy is very similar (though not identical), but they start off mirrored: "I don't believe in a god/gods/spirituality, but even if they exist, it won't change the way that I act. ... (and on)".

So just because you don't believe in a god doesn't necessarily make you an Atheist.

The catchall for belief/notbelief/dunno is Agnostic. Most people (and even many dictionary definitions) describe Agnosticism as "not knowing whether or not you believe in a God", and, indeed, that is a part of Agnosticism, but that isn't the whole of it.

The more modern definition of Agnosticism is "Those who are without metaphysical philosophy". This includes people that:

• were never taught about God/god/gods, and thus don't believe in him/her/it/them by default,
• have lost faith in God,
• have lost faith in religion, but still believe in God,
• people that do not believe in a god, but have never reasoned out why. They just... don't.

Deism and Atheism are too specific to be used to describe such people. Agnosticism is the catch-all term for such people-without-specific-philosophy.