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Thread: Nadia Discussion

  1. #161

    Default Re: Nadia Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Creme View Post
    Removing Nadia would require crafters to rely on what few hunters remain.

    As I mentioned either in this thread, or another, if Nadia is removed, perhaps the mechanisms by which crafters earn coin needs to be reviewed.

    It could very well be that this cannot even be evaluated, until such time as she is removed and the results assessed.
    This is my primary concern here, especially the last comment. Doing things piecemeal only causes problems, frustration and grief for all. There is way too much time between important patches such as this that they must be done at the same time or else suffer between fixes which as we have all seen are not all the fast in coming.

    Sadly, Chaos and Order can't be controlled differently. I have never been on the Chaos server, but my impression is there is a huge community over there. (Would be nice to get an average census of players on each server during various times of the day during each day of the week).

    From my experience on Order however, there is typically only 20-50 visible people on at a time...and that is during high-use times. (25 in Market, and 40 visible at this writing). I have seen in past days where it has been impossible to get enough people together for even an epic hunt.

    The point I am trying to make here...there needs to be a much larger population to get any type of economy going...and when that happens...comps will be in supply or hunters available and people will stop using Nadia on their own. Remove her before this happens, comp prices go stratospheric, angers lots of people, the rich get richer, and no one is happy.
    Spirit Brothers
    Aaelefein - Foremost a Grand Master Crafter, also a Paladin/Healer/Druid/Mage/Spiritist
    Treyvan - Adult Dragon 100A/100DC/100LS/95CS
    Skandrannon - Growing and Expert Dragon Crafter

  2. #162
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    Default Re: Nadia Discussion

    And most folks who leave the game these days either leave because they have rl econimic issues - or find this game to no longer be fun..

    Knossos

  3. #163

    Default Re: Nadia Discussion

    No, the situation on Chaos is probably similar; more crafters than hunters.

    I don't believe that there are any players that seek to provide comps full time. Generally, those that tend to be available are private stores or those comps that accumulate from players gathering resources in protected areas (i.e., yew treant knots, marble golem frags). Mithril frags have gone from a highly available comp to one that must be actively hunted with the introduction of the mithril/platinum mine.

    Oftentimes if a player is seeking to hunt comps for their own gear, extra comps acquired during that time are available for purchase (say someone needs vapors but also gets a fair number of sternums which he doesn't need).

    We about 49 players in market and probably 70 visible players on search.

  4. #164
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    Default Re: Nadia Discussion

    We are currently 40 players visible on order and 25 in market, and this is close to peak time.


    Knossos

  5. #165

    Default Re: Nadia Discussion

    I must be a dying breed. I do not store comps. If someone needs them I hunt them. If I need to make jewelry etc., then I go hunt them. Will price go up without nadia? Not from me they won't.

    Personally at this time nadia can stay. Those that want to buy from me can. And that means everyone.

  6. #166

    Default Re: Nadia Discussion

    I totally agree with Aaelefein and Knossos, esp. concerning order.

    The numbers of players: not sure, but there might be some more.
    Those who do not speak English, use to stay among each other (naturally)
    and are not in market o.s. (talking about whole guilds here).
    Others - and that happens everyother day- I can see- but nor found in player search (or channels I`m in) .
    Could it be that lots are invis??
    YOU told me to play a dragon!

  7. #167
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    Default Re: Nadia Discussion

    I think Knossos and Aael have summed it up. The Order population is _very_ low, and it's a pain to find components in a reasonable amount of time. There's been more people using Sir Aidan lately, though.

  8. #168

    Default Re: Nadia Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaelefein View Post
    So now it seems the 'idea' is...is to improve the economy by removing Nadia, thus making it necessary for people to actualy hunt comps. It's been said many times in this thread...Hunters don't hunt comps because there's not enough coin in it for them. WOW! Using T5 tech comps as an example, so what now? We give those that primarily hunt even more coin...get say 4 comps in an hour for a single tech...and BAM...100-500s?
    HOW does that improve the economy?
    People will actually start "hunting" for comps more is what will happen. I'd wager multiple suppliers will spring up and prices will be competitive.

    I do not buy that crafters cannot make money. Whose fault is it that they craft everything for free? Or do construction at 1.5s per tier? no one's fault but their own. The game has a large crafting component but everyone knows you will get the most out of your time in Istaria doing both (hunting and crafting).

    What the heck does the poor crafter do to earn his coin to buy the comps from this 'new' economy? If you are considering going down this road, at least consider removing the cap on the pawn brokers...so now any crafter of any tier has a chance of making coin again vs he he hits the pawnbroker first for the day wins.
    Start charging for your services?

    Yes...I use Nadia a lot. It certainly isn't because I'm not capable. It has to do with time and frustration. Some comps I gather my own comps, those at least I know I have a chance of getting what I need without spending weeks doing so. Others, which have all been named in this thread...I can earn enough coin in a day or two to buy the rest...faster, easier, and MUCH LESS frustration.
    This is the problem. Originally comps 100% had to be hunted. And back then, OMG crafters charged for stuff. As far as drop rates go, Amon has said those are being looked at and adjusted.

    Another question one must ask. What is the purpose of the game now. I thought it was to have fun...or is it to see who has the biggest wallet? Other than comps, which these comp-hunters can get on their own so don't need to buy...what else is money used for except maybe a plot? Oh YEAH...trophies so they can level their uber-classed bipeds. BUt that is an entirely different subject to which I have a beef.
    If you aren't hunting, you are missing out on alot of what Istaria has to offer. If you need comps and refuse to hunt, join a guild.

    Nadia is welfare for crafters, and a time saving cheat for adventurers.

    Ultimately Nadia has been more harm than good for Istaria. Time the Gypsies went back east.

  9. #169
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    Default Re: Nadia Discussion

    Guaran

    For clarity, please state if you are speaking for Blight or for Chaos or for Order shard - or for all of Istaris?

    Thank you,

    Knossos

  10. #170

    Default Re: Nadia Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by AmonGwareth View Post
    RE: Ogres

    Got them cleaned up. Storm Ogres dropped no loot? huh.
    Just wanted to say a quick "thank you" for the quick turnaround, even tho it's now kinda off topic.
    "There are but three loves in a Dwarf's life, young lad: battle to make one thirsty, ale to quench the thirst, and friends to bring more ale! Make no mistake about it... good friends are by far the most important." - Steele

  11. #171

    Default Re: Nadia Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Knossos View Post
    Guaran

    For clarity, please state if you are speaking for Blight or for Chaos or for Order shard - or for all of Istaris?

    Thank you,

    Knossos
    I reside on Chaos.

    However even a small shard such as Blight could host comp hunt outings where everyone is invited to help. Comps are hunted and split up among the group as you see fit. Someone with comps they do not need could then choose to give away or sell them. Same could be done on Order.

    The alternative if those shards are truely so empty that you can't band together for a comp hunt outing would be to use the suggestion of much higher prices...

    Keep in mind you could use t4 techs on hunting gear to get you by while you hunt the t5 comps. There's many ways comp hunting can be accomplished if you put your mind to it.

  12. #172
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    Default Re: Nadia Discussion

    I had to leave Istaria (again) due to it not running on Vista but also because I always loved to be a trader, and Istaria actively discourages trading.

    When the game was young, I could form happy parties with friends and go hunt components for a living.

    Now, the adventurer would kill some nasty Satyr island mobs for hours earning several DP... try selling the components and:

    - be almost looked bad. YOU CHARGE???? HOW DO YOU DARE! I gave you that satchel 3 days ago!

    Basically high teched stuff can be handed to everyone forever (great mistake) and the game won't eat money (ie. vendor only co-reagents) so none needs nor wants to charge or be charged.
    The feeling is of a carebear lovely community but then an important feature of a MMO (the economy) is just dead.

    - everyone and his mum need vexator fringes etc. and squeal to get 2 dozens of them now. But dare to put some for sale. "NVM it took me 2 days but I found a friend of a friend who had a 2 years non played alt with some fringes for free for me.

    - since the only competition is demand and offer, and demand is excruciantly low (since everyone have all, nor items decay / break / are bound), then you hunt 1 component for 2 hours and find it for 10s (in possibly one whole stack, for more smack value) on the auctioneer.


    But at my time I was even more of a crafter (the old 30 adv 100 DCRA guy) and on ICE (long live to those who recall the ancient lands!) I would have a fantastic life producing teched spells on buy order.
    Now, again, only times I have to make a spell is for the new level 5 guildie alt, who will get a whole tier for free (of course). That's it. No one else needs anything off me, everyone have some level 100 spellcrafter alt somewhere.

    The lack of need to interact with other players in a "commercial way" completely killed Horizons for me in 2005 and once migrated in the USA it was even worse.

    In this context, Nadia & Co were an hotfix gone stale and influenced the little market left.

    Why should a super-rare tier 2 tech drop cost almost nothing (since Nadia will sell it for crumbs) making it worthless to farm for the adventurers, while a super-farmed ice wolf drop would cost a lot?



    Not only Nadia has to go, but a DEEP economy overhaul has to be done.
    I am playing EVE Online in these days, the economy in that game is so perfect that real professors keep university courses on how real economy works by showing the game to the students.

    Istaria, with its superb support for crafting, would be a perfect candidate for a similar economy model, including the similarities in regional, unconnected markets.
    Maybe the most carebears would feel unsettled having to deal with something more diverse and challenging than a pawnbroker, but in the long run Istaria would flourish.
    EVE is Copyright 1997 (!) but feels so new and challenging even today, Istaria could be so close, the two market models are potentially identical.


    PS sorry for the strange post / rant / nonsense. It's just a decrepit aged red dragon gibbering about.

    PS 2: *hugs* guild mates and LOVWYRM.
    Vahrokh Vain - Ancient dragon level 100 adv 100 craft 34M of untainted, fireworks and other crap free hoard.
    Isarion - Reaver Healer Spiritist, many craft classes.

  13. #173

    Default Re: Nadia Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Vahrokh View Post
    I had to leave Istaria (again) due to it not running on Vista but also because I always loved to be a trader, and Istaria actively discourages trading.

    ... SNIP ...

    PS sorry for the strange post / rant / nonsense. It's just a decrepit aged red dragon gibbering about.

    PS 2: *hugs* guild mates and LOVWYRM.
    Cringes at the massive can of worms that Vahrokh opened.
    "Alea iacta est" -- Julius Caesar

    Toot shouted, voice shrill, "In the name of the Pizza Lord! Charge!" (Jim Butcher's Dresden Files)

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will spends it whole life believing that it is stupid." -- Albert Einstein

  14. #174

    Default Re: Nadia Discussion

    well- nobody could convince me yet-
    until Vahrokh spoke-to whom I have to agree.

    (and no- not because of the hug *huggsback*)^^
    YOU told me to play a dragon!

  15. #175

    Default Re: Nadia Discussion

    It goes like this on Order: There seem to be sooo many dragons, and not enough biped crafters, but we bipeds don't make things for dragons and I don't hunt much so I dont have a lot I can give them, like hoard, if they make a spell for me. Dragons are limited in what they can do crafting wise, and bipded crafters are limited in what we can do for the high level dragons!
    A while back, I wanted a spell and asked around on marketplace for a few weeks until a biped offered to make it for me. I supplied some of the comps, most of which I bought from Nadia. Then the crafter didn't want me to pay for the spell! How can a crafter ask for items to be made, or for techs from other players when most others don't accept payment? This not only trashes the "economy", it makes me not want to ask for things so I use Nadia more.
    The idea about changing the PB limits is good. I have been pawning geostone bowls for coin, but I have to save them up and can only go around at certain times to pawn them.

  16. #176

    Default Re: Nadia Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Vahrokh View Post
    Istaria, with its superb support for crafting, would be a perfect candidate for a similar economy model, including the similarities in regional, unconnected markets.
    Maybe the most carebears would feel unsettled having to deal with something more diverse and challenging than a pawnbroker, but in the long run Istaria would flourish.
    EVE is Copyright 1997 (!) but feels so new and challenging even today, Istaria could be so close, the two market models are potentially identical.
    I'm sorry, Vahrokh, but I have to disagree with you here. Istaria is not, nor ever could be like Eve. There are many many differences including quite a few at the core that make Istaria unable to be anything like that.

    Not the least of which is Dragons and Bipeds which create way more imbalances than anything in Eve. Ultimately, however, Istaria is not an economic simulation.
    "Alea iacta est" -- Julius Caesar

    Toot shouted, voice shrill, "In the name of the Pizza Lord! Charge!" (Jim Butcher's Dresden Files)

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will spends it whole life believing that it is stupid." -- Albert Einstein

  17. #177

    Default Re: Nadia Discussion

    The fact that there IS no economy and the 'carebear' ((Haha)) feel exists is one of the reasons I love Istaria so much.

    With no money-greed, a lot of the arse-ness is cut out that you'd see in other games.

  18. #178

    Default Re: Nadia Discussion

    Vahrokh makes a good point about being an "elder" game, and maybe that's a core part of the "problem". It's hard to have an economy when everyone can be self-sufficient. And once you have a plot, there really isn't a big money-sink anywhere, so money has no real value for high-level characters when so many are happy to supply their services for free.

    Once you take money out of the equation, the only thing left is time i.e. "how long do I want to wait until I get 12 components". Nadia is really just a way to save people time (except for components that don't drop of course!).

    IMHO removing Nadia would make items more valuable to players, in so much as it would take people longer to collect the ingredients they need. The only things that seem to attract cash AFAIK are trophies for Draggies trying for RoP/ARoP and trophy hunter goodies. I know there have been plenty of stories like "it took me *weeks* to get 12 xyz components!", but after all, those things aren't meant to be dropping off trees. It should be quite challenging to get everything you need, particularly for T5 sets. I believe that Nadia is a hindrance to any hope of supply-and-demand, as her components form the basis of Istaria's player economy.

    It is quite wonderful to have a group of players so willing to supply their time to help others

  19. #179
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    Default Re: Nadia Discussion

    Cringes at the massive can of worms that Vahrokh opened
    Someone has to.

    I'd so love to help you, if only I did not live in another continent...
    I might even be able to fix the Vista / Windows 7 client compatibility issue if I could check the startup code.


    The fact that there IS no economy and the 'carebear' ((Haha)) feel exists is one of the reasons I love Istaria so much.
    An abnormal condition can be very nice, but in the end what should count is the health of the game, not the fact you can get everything handed on a plate.

    Just ask yourself, why economy systems exist to begin with.
    Vahrokh Vain - Ancient dragon level 100 adv 100 craft 34M of untainted, fireworks and other crap free hoard.
    Isarion - Reaver Healer Spiritist, many craft classes.

  20. #180

    Default Re: Nadia Discussion

    btw- Many thanks to those unselfish people of order,
    who filled up Sir Aidan.
    Just yesterday I could experience, how happy it made some low level players.
    Thank you!
    YOU told me to play a dragon!

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