Too Many Times...(See Nadia in General)

[Aaelefein]

This is from the thread concerning comps and the 'proposed' removal of Nadia. I say proposed, because one reply insinuates the idea that player response regardless, Nadia is going away.

And to head off things I suspect will be on the list, Vista and lag and that sort of thing is handled by the programmers, not by the designers. We approach the game from very different angles.

Though it might be technically true, it is a story/excuse that has been used too many times.

Yeah, you Dev's might be able to flip a switch (ie., click an icon or uncheck a box) to get rid of Nadia...but how much of the things that need to be fixed concerning the issue of comps, loot tables, spawn density, etc...is just as easy?

From the fubar that was the golem nerf a couple years ago when Mithril Golems of Mithril's Anvil, Fire Opal Golems of Saritova, and the T3 Golems of Trandalar were so few and faw between...the response then was that they are 'hard-coded' and it is not just a matter of flipping a switch, or adjusting a couple numbers.

So you say you want to fix the things that make Nadia, if not necessary, less of a crutch and to spur an economy...past experience says this is going to involve programmer work.

Yup...Dev's can have grand ideas, but how many times have we seen grand ideas blow up in our faces and then be told, 'we're working on it', or 'it's on the to do list.'?? Too many times from my recollection.

Right now it looks like there is more than enough on the Programmer's plates when you take into consideration Vista Compatibality, The Blighted Labyrinth, lag, major plot issues, etc. Plus the things mentioned in Developer's Newsletters months ago...like what happened to those new buildings and the return of old favorites?

Pile up the plate too much and its going to crash and make one heck of a mess.

[AmonGwareth]

For clarification, I am _NOT_ a programmer on Istaria. I have never written a single line of code on the client, server, very very little on the simulation, I just don't do it. If it requires programming, I send that to someone else.

I realize that to many, dev = programmer. But it isn't true. We each have our own areas of expertise. And we are all human. i.e. we make mistakes. We are trying hard to own up to those mistakes.

This game is HUUUUUGE. Some of the changes that we want to make and that players want us to make would take months upon months or even longer to complete. Sometimes those changes once started must be done through to their completion before any content can be patched.

That is why we sometimes do things piece-meal, and sometimes push stuff off, and sometimes say we can't do it.

I'm not saying you are wrong or anything, I am just laying it out that a lot of times people get very upset based upon big misconceptions they have about how the game is structured or how the team is organized and what skills or responsibilities we have.

Also, sometimes plans change. That is life. We want to work on something and then a new priority comes up and we are forced to change. The biggest of these is often staff changes or the need for a promotion or something flashy.

Anyway, I am glad you are all here and that you are passionate about this game. Please don't forget that we are all passionate about it as well. None of us (at VI or the players) want the game to fail. Our goals are the same, even if the way we achieve them is different.

[Aaelefein]

I never claimed you were a programmer Amon, and I do understand the difference. I was on Submarines when I was in the Navy, and though maybe the reference is in reverse, it is still apt...the designers of the Subs have such great ideas, but they never have to operate them and they certainly don't have to perform maintenance. THey get to sit in their cushy jobs while we grunts get to contort ourselves into various shapes while hanging upside down to remove a seal from a stuck valve that somehow is inches above the bilge.

Now you mentioned that somethings get shoved aside, I can understand with that as well...but...would it be so difficult to let us know? Yeah, there might be some disappointment, but better than keeping players on tenterhooks(sp) waiting.

[Creme]

Also, sometimes plans change. That is life. We want to work on something and then a new priority comes up and we are forced to change.

I think this could be the cause of so much concern. A project is mapped out, something/some NPC/item, etc. is removed in Phase I. Phase II involves adding something/some NPC/item, etc. to a different location, or re-writing quest dialogue.

So patch comes to Blight, Phase I is rolled out. Phase II is in the works. Something happens, Phase II doesn't materialize, etc. etc. etc.

As for Nadia, we have seen this before. She was removed, then all the tech comps for which she was the only source, were no longer available. People got upset. Nadia was put back in.

Or....

Prices were increased on Nadia outrageously. One of the reasons given was that it was to encourage players to hunt for comps so that feedback could be given on comp drop rates so that adjustments could be made.

Actuality: Timing was bad, game was sold. Players were stuck with some truly outrageous Nadia prices for over a year.

There is too much cart before the horse stuff.

Also, things incomplete. Crystal stacking. That was going great. Then gnomekindle came. Now there's talk of removing Nadia and all these changes will need to be implemented. Will the crystal stacking project resume with the next patch? Or has this (like so many other things) dropped by the wayside.

I think this is one reasons many players dread and fear change in this game. Because we do not know if those "extra things to fill the gaps" will wind up being implemented.

We were told with the linking of tiered spell timers that the staff was aware that there would need to be rebalancing of spells and more lines added. To date, we have seen 4 or 5 new spells added (GoV, Spirit Ward, Blight Resistance, Primal Health...I might be missing 1 but I think that's all of them). There has been no expansion to the conjurer line, no Mind bolts, no Life bolts. But the change to remove chain casting was removed anyway, prior to the implementation of the "gaps" that resulted. (NOTE: I don't mind the spell linking, but I do acknowledge that it upset a good number of players and that it was mentioned that the holes would be plugged).

Being an "old-timer" and a comp hunter back during that time. I am grateful every time I DO need to comp hunt that the drop rates are so much better, so I don't get frustrated at the drop rates (at least, only very rarely). 1 week hunting probably 3 hours a day to get 10 zombie finger. We players now don't appreciate how good we have it.

[Jayne]

Like I said, no matter what is done someone won't be happy.

I have personally been hunting comps the last two nights. I have not gotten any I need to drop yet. Am I upset? No.

I know that I many log in tonight and have a good night with drops. Thats the way it works and I have no issue with that. Win some, lose some.

But thats just me, I like the challenge that the game brings.

[Zexoin]

Order Underground is conducting an opinion survey on the possible evicition of Nadia from Bristugo. We are holding an open discussion and poll on our web site. We'd like to hear what you have to say.

Please take a look at http://orderunderground.blogspot.com/ !

[Veruliyam]

Order Underground is conducting an opinion survey on the possible evicition of Nadia from Bristugo. We are holding an open discussion and poll on our web site. We'd like to hear what you have to say.

Please take a look at http://orderunderground.blogspot.com/ !

You tempt me! You tempt me!!!

[LOVWYRM]

This is from the thread concerning comps and the 'proposed' removal of Nadia. I say proposed, because one reply insinuates the idea that player response regardless, Nadia is going away.

I read the same, Aaelefein- and it`s vexing.

[Soraii]

Hrrm, Impending announcement would more appropriate then proposed It seems.

Soraii

[AmonGwareth]

Contrary to what many of you think, your input is valued. And removing Nadia is NOT already done. That is why we posted it. If we didn't care about your opinions on the matter, we would have just removed Nadia and put a note in the patch notes.

[Deth]

I do think they learned from when I brought the talk of the Gold Rage changes to light that some things need to be talked about on here first. Like the Gold Rage change the player base will influence the change.

[Zexoin]

Mensar, how do you propose that cutting Nadia's prices by 90% would INCREASE the amount of money players have? If the price of comps is 90% lower, nobody will ever bother to hunt for tech comps again. They'll just buy from Nadia.

Where did Mensar post ? O_o

[Teto Frum]

If its not a done deal, I still think only top teir should be removed at first. Check out the effects of removal of her comps on the clearly largest and most capable of getting their own. My concern isnt for the high end, its the low end ones, theres very few of them, the Dead pool doesnt hunt any easier than comp isles or ed, whos the lvl 30 cleric supposed to buy his comps off theres barely any that lvl in game, whos he supposed group with.

This isnt about who likes a hard game or who wants to use a crutch, its about is there people in game of all teirs to provide a build up comps for consignment. Im not sure theres enough people playing at any teir other than t5 to remove Nadia, teching cool stuff is the most fun thing in game but never being able to get comps to tech anything while your young will drive you out game i think, creating less new players staying.

Every post running about this on several different threads is only talking about high end effects itll be harder on teirs with 20 players than the one with a couple hundred.

[Teto Frum]

Oh yea and if Nadias is being removed Sir Aiden needs to hold comps indefinitely in my opinion, this will built up a supply by comps from players that could even be gone still having comps available. This will allow actual stock inventory to be built up of player generated comps.

If he isnt like that already i can't remember.

[Mensar]

Where did Mensar post ? O_o

I did say it would save people money and for obvious reasons.. if folks can buy the comps fairly cheaply, they save money. Hence they have extra funds? That seemed fairly obvious.

But the real savings is in time.. nobody wants to grind out 30 hours looking for a single comp when they need 10 - 20 of them.

I think deleting Nadia is the bandaid.. the real problem is, apparently, the drop rates.

Because if folks don't mind spending 30-300s for a single comp.. well, that should tell you something.