Dragon Ressurect Spells

[Galdethriel]

Okay, before I start, I know this has probably come up before. I also know there's a high chance it might spark the all-hated dragon vs. biped argument, but that is honestly not my intention. So please let's not venture into that. This is just a suggestion and a personal view. :/

Well, playing a new biped through to healer lately, I learnt about the biped rezzes.

If I'm right, bipeds of the right classes get a new rez every 10 levels or so, right? And their DP-lifting rez has a recycle of 15 minutes or so?

Weeell... looking at the requirements for the first and only dragon rez (read: level 90+, completed adult rites, completed ancient rites (to a degree), complete all dragon adventurer quests, give 5000 hoard with an hour recycle)... it seemed a little disbalanced. A lot disbalanced. Like. Impossible-to-understand-why-it-was-laid-out-this-way disbalanced. :/

So, I'm proposing that to even out the field a bit, dragons are given more than 1 rez throughout their lives too.

How about if every 20 levels, a dragon of any age could complete a quest to earn a lesser, non-DP-lifting rez, at about the same strength as a biped one would be 10 levels prior? This rez would have the same short recycle as that of a biped but a reasonable hoard cost. :O

Or, it could even be once every 25 levels. So a dragon would end up with 4 or 5 rezzes, including the one earned during the ancient rites. :P

This way, it would still be appeasing the need for bipeds to get it far more easilly (I know, I know, I'm being bias--I just don't understand it. It's wierd to me. XD )--but it wouldn't be so imbalanced and give dragons an even opportunity to hunt together; sure, a biped healer would always be more efficient, but non-end game dragons would then be a bit more useful towards each other.

So, tell me what you think.

But please, don't start arguing. :/

~Galde

[Takora Drakan]

Dragon are atm are all in one DPS/healing/magic class that is "overpowered" with a single 100 class. A lvl 100 dragon can easy slap a lvl 100 biped around. That changes when we consider multiclassing for bipeds, then it turns around. But atm dragon is the most powerful single lvl 100 class. If ancient classes come in then it would be reasonableto get such things if you take the path dragon healer and such, but as a pure lvl 100 dragon i would say it is fine with the primal rezz we already have. I have better this primal rezz than none honestly.

[Galdethriel]

Dragon are atm are all in one DPS/healing/magic class that is "overpowered" with a single 100 class. A lvl 100 dragon can easy slap a lvl 100 biped around.

The dragon adventurer class HAS to be powerful though, only because it's our ONLY class. :/

as a pure lvl 100 dragon i would say it is fine with the primal rezz we already have. I have better this primal rezz than none honestly.

No offence Takora, but I don't think you quite understand what I mean. :/

Yeah, that's fine for you if you've met all the requirements and have your rez. My point is the difference in the biped requirements for a rez and the dragon requirements for a rez: one's up in the sky, the other's so low down it's not even on the planet anymore. >.<

All I'm saying is that you shouldn't have to drive all the way to the end-game to get a skill a level 10 biped is running around with, just because you play a dragon. :/ And this same skill, because you're a dragon, has quadruple the recycle time and a hoard cost tacked on. Because you're a dragon.

~Galde

[Takora Drakan]

If you play a dragon you play a dragon. If you think the grass is on the other side greener, try a biped. Primal rezz is meant to be something special and we had long time not a single rezz.


Dragons should be powerful yes, but not turn into all in one like bipeds.

[Hoberton]

All I'm saying is that you shouldn't have to drive all the way to the end-game to get a skill a level 10 biped is running around with, just because you play a dragon. :/ And this same skill, because you're a dragon, has quadruple the recycle time and a hoard cost tacked on. Because you're a dragon.

~Galde

Sorry to tell you Galdethriel. The ONLY school that has Superior Resurrection is Healer and they don't get that until level 54. All the other resurrection spells are only partial heal and do not get rid of Death Points.

Resurrection I Resurrect at 20% health Adventure Level (10), Life (100)
Resurrection II Resurrect at 40% health Adventure Level (30), Life (300)
Resurrection III Resurrect at 50% health Adventure Level (50), Life (500)
Resurrection IV Resurrect at 70% health Adventure Level (70), Life (700)
Resurrection V Resurrect at 90% health Adventure Level (90), Life (900)

Superior Resurrect Resurrects a friendly target without applying a death point. Available to School Level Healer 54

[Galdethriel]

If you play a dragon you play a dragon. If you think the grass is on the other side greener, try a biped. Primal rezz is meant to be something special and we had long time not a single rezz.

Takora, this will sound a bit rude so brace yourself, I apologise in advance:

So, I shouldn't play a dragon then, because for some inexplicable reason they aren't in any way, shape, or form, allowed the same useful skill at a reasonable level, that biped classes are? Is this the be-all end-all argument against evening out the ability sharing: 'go play a biped?'

I am playing a biped. But my main is a dragon. A lot of mains are dragons. And dragons have to put a heck of a lot more work into getting a rez than any other class in the game. Your argument 'go play a biped' is irrelevant, overused, and weak. It has no standing for anyone who wants to play a dragon. The game's ace. One of the few reasons, probably, it's still around.

The fact of the matter is, most of the players on HZ play dragons. And a lot of those dragons aren't maxed out ancients like you are.

I'm not trying to 'replace the specialness of the primal rez' or 'make dragons just like bipeds'. I'm trying to suggest a reasonable idea as to how dragons could get a skill more easily, though note, still not as easilly as bipeds, in order to even things out.

Please, please, never give me that lazy 'go play a biped' argument again. Please.

~Galde

[Teto Frum]

I'm not sure this can just be dragon vs biped thing at all, theres plenty of biped schools that can't rez at all, I think the dragon rez is fine as is. Bipeds lose their rez in over half their schools, if anything they are short changed, not dragons.

[Galdethriel]

And Hoberton, to be honest, I'm not too bothered about the removal of the death point. I'm happy that dragons get a superior rez.

Still doesn't change the fact that dragons have to do so much to get a rez at all, and bipeds...

...level 10 cleric. Easy as that.

@ Teto:

I'm not too sure about how bipeds do as far as other classes go, but the act of obtaining said rez is still undeniably easier than what a dragon has to do. At least if you're a biped in a non-rez class, all you need is level 10 in a starter class and switch to get it. :/

Otherwise, change that too! XD

Or we could just let dragons get a minor rez at level 30 and leave it at that.

~Galde

[Teto Frum]

What im saying is ive got rez but out of 5 maxed schools i can only cast it in one of those schools, cleric the one i got it in, but never hunt as. So ive never got the actual ability to rez even though i have spell scribed, where as at least a dragon does.

[Skihlairk]

I do agree that we should have at least a few rezz spells avaliable to the lower levels.

It is horribly out weighed and to tell the truth, I really can't get my head around why its been done that way.
Also, please, no more 'Dragons are overpowered already'. They're not. They're really not |: | Plus its a moot argument.


So anyway, for dragons to have some minor rezzes, bare in mind these would be no where close to the amount and strength of the bi-pedial rezzes, would help out one hell of alot during the lower levels!
I think Galde's sugestions into the likes of qualifing levels, quests, recyle times and hoard cost are very reasonable and seem like a good idea : 0 I myself hate the hoard cripple effect that we dragons seem be plagued by but I wouldn't mind coughing up some shines for a small rezz.


I cant see any plausible reason for dragons not to have a small amount on non-DP lifting rezzes available in the lower levels :3

[Galdethriel]

What im saying is ive got rez but out of 5 maxed schools i can only cast it in one of those schools, cleric the one i got it in, but never hunt as. So ive never got the actual ability to rez even though i have spell scribed, where as at least a dragon does.

The option is still there, however, though I wouldn't be sure how much fighting as a cleric affects your other classes. :P

~Galde

[Takora Drakan]

Takora, this will sound a bit rude so brace yourself, I apologise in advance:

So, I shouldn't play a dragon then, because for some inexplicable reason they aren't in any way, shape, or form, allowed the same useful skill at a reasonable level, that biped classes are? Is this the be-all end-all argument against evening out the ability sharing: 'go play a biped?'

I am playing a biped. But my main is a dragon. A lot of mains are dragons. And dragons have to put a heck of a lot more work into getting a rez than any other class in the game. Your argument 'go play a biped' is irrelevant, overused, and weak. It has no standing for anyone who wants to play a dragon. The game's ace. One of the few reasons, probably, it's still around.

The fact of the matter is, most of the players on HZ play dragons. And a lot of those dragons aren't maxed out ancients like you are.

I'm not trying to 'replace the specialness of the primal rez' or 'make dragons just like bipeds'. I'm trying to suggest a reasonable idea as to how dragons could get a skill more easily, though note, still not as easilly as bipeds, in order to even things out.

Please, please, never give me that lazy 'go play a biped' argument again. Please.

~Galde

You are putting a way too much in my words, and shoving all on that that I am a "maxed out ancient" doesn't help the topic much. I put much time and effort to make my char what it is, more than 5 years. Because of that I can handle situations that others can't, probably because of that I feel that dragons don't need another rezz spell.

I said try a biped, not go and play a biped. It was a friendly suggestion, not gtfo and play a biped argument.

This is again a whole why cant class x have that ability from calss y argument, which will lead to nothing. Classes and skills have their purpose as much are they tied to their respective classes and skills.

And getting all easier doesn't make the game better, it makes the game worse and boring.

edited

[Skihlairk]

This isn't my topic so I shall leave Galde to argue its side although I agree with logic of it, buuuuuuut I just have to say this:

edited

[Galdethriel]

This is again a whole why cant class x have that ability from calss y argument, which will lead to nothing. Classes and skills have their purpose as much are they tied to their respective classes and skills.

But a thing to consider is that this affects more than just classes. As said, a biped who wants a rez needs only switch to a basic school, level 10, bam, basic rez. But if you play a dragon... 90, ancient, end-game. And that is the ONLY rez you can choose from.

And getting all easier doesn't make the game better, it makes the game worse and boring.

Right. Sorry. Should I be asking for a biped nerf rather than a dragon extension?

And it's not like I'm trying to shove every biped skill onto dragons. I'm not trying to make them uber-powered killing machines.

Even just one, tiny, minor rez, earlier on. That's all I'm suggesting. Its not half as easy to get as a biped rez, and its not half as efficient. Maybe we could have a scribable rez which has a high primal requirement.

edited

~Galde

[AmonGwareth]

This is starting to get out of hand, I can feel it. Keep it in line, no attacks.

[Ulkjen]

I can easily see what galde is talking about. It would be a great deal more helpful to at least put someone back on their feet. Might not have more than 5-10% hp, might cost some hoard, but at least they are on their feet. I think the entire idea is to not have to wait for your friend to walk back. Maybe haev them be 'sick', like the death penalty stat reduction, for a small ammount of time. At least they wouldnt have to walk theirselves back.

[Galdethriel]

I can easily see what galde is talking about. It would be a great deal more helpful to at least put someone back on their feet. Might not have more than 5-10% hp, might cost some hoard, but at least they are on their feet. I think the entire idea is to not have to wait for your friend to walk back. Maybe haev them be 'sick', like the death penalty stat reduction, for a small ammount of time. At least they wouldnt have to walk theirselves back.

Yes, that would be great.

This is starting to get out of hand, I can feel it. Keep it in line, no attacks.

Apologies, but derogatory comments frustrate me. :/

~Galde

[Raptress]

I would be in favor of some sort of rez that does not have an hour long cooldown, no matter how weak or inferior it is to a similarly-levelled biped version that is obtainable before going through most of the ARoP. (Perhaps quested at 30 or 50?) The only reason I see a need for it is because of situations I've seen, several times, helping hatchlings on their RoPs. A lot of times, these groups are all dragon. There was this one time where there were two or three ancients in the group with their rezzes on cooldown and we had to hold the Shadow Dragon while the hatchling ran all the way back from Harro.

I guess for me, the issue is really just the cooldown. I don't mind the fact that it's obtainable only at high levels, or that it has a hoard cost (but then again the only character of mine who has the dragon rez eats hoard points like candy anyway XD).

And, to briefly flirt with the biped vs. dragon argument, I don't really see why anyone would be opposed to dragons getting a secondary, very inferior rez. The people who want to play dragons are going to play dragons, and if a bunch of players are dragons, doesn't that sort of cause any biped in a mostly dragon group to be pressured to play as a healer/rezzer instead of what they actually want to play? I don't mean to say that dragons should be able to take up a full healer role, I'm just saying that the ability to rez is so vital in a group environment that having it be more accessible can hardly be a bad thing.

[Drevar]

But would you agree then that bipeds should be able to fly and have an ability that can hit for 3k damage every 15 seconds? If your goal is parity, then I too demand parity. For every complaint of "bipeds can do this or that" I can counter with "dragons can do this or that" as was stated before, it gets you nowhere.

What will be the next ability you want after regular ressurects? Will you pick up another biped school and decide that Dragons also "deserve" an ability that lets them evade the next special attack, or one that halves an enemies attack speed, or perhaps a ranged bolt that ignores armor, maybe a 100% chance of your spells landing for a short time, or a boost to the damage a group does for a while? Almost every class has something that makes it special (and some are severely lacking).

All these new things that have been given to dragons, some of them "versions" of biped ablities, and yet it is still not enough. I wish you could play a launch day hatchling and see how rediculously good you have it now.

Drev

[Hoberton]

OK, Twist on words to make a point:

And, to briefly flirt with the biped vs. dragon argument, I don't really see why anyone would be opposed to dragons getting a secondary, very inferior rez. The people who want to play dragons are going to play dragons, and if a bunch of players are dragons, doesn't that sort of cause any biped in a mostly dragon group to be pressured to play as a healer/rezzer instead of what they actually want to play? I don't mean to say that dragons should be able to take up a full healer role, I'm just saying that the ability to rez is so vital in a group environment that having it be more accessible can hardly be a bad thing.

And, to briefly flirt with the dragon vs. biped argument, I don't really see why anyone would be opposed to bipeds getting a secondary, very inferior fly. The people who want to play bipeds are going to play bipeds, and if a bunch of players are bipeds, doesn't that sort of cause any dragon in a mostly biped group to be pressured to play as a dragon/flyer instead of what they actually want to play? I don't mean to say that bipeds should be able to take up a full dragon role, I'm just saying that the ability to fly is so vital in a group environment that having it be more accessible can hardly be a bad thing.

The point being: Healers are able to get the rez ability because that is what they do. Having a healer along in a group is not a bad thing. I have never wanted to be a Dragon in a group that needed a healing class. To say I can't play a Dragon in a group because I HAD to play a healer is not knowing much about the person playing the healer. We all play what we want.

Rez comes from the LIFE skill, which Healers and Clerics are the only 2 classes that get it.

Yes, I have 2 Dragon characters which I play.