Aughundel NPCs

[Aaelefein]

Mostly a bug report, but also a slight rant...

Dauga the Gatherer and Fulthas the Miner trainers have 0 forms for sale. The other three trainers have as said, very few forms.

1) I hope the other trainers of these schools still ahve the Jman formulas availble for those in need,

2) I was a bit surrpised to see these are being sold by way of Lore tokens.

It is part two that makes this sort of a rant...not only that they are sold by lore token, but 200c for Expert metal Bar? 250c for Expert Mining Pick and Tree Axe? That seems excessivly cheap and it makes what we hunters collect essentially worthless.

[LOVWYRM]

I sign the rant.
I`m not the only one, who can throw away her/his form collection.
I discussed this with a friend last night. He was very sad about this.
Makes no sense to go for forms anymore. Food for the pawn brokers.

[Takora Drakan]

Indeed. Considering that the expert forms costes back in the days 300s and more at the vielo, which was high, but affordable if you put effort in it.

[Creme]

Mostly a bug report, but also a slight rant...

Dauga the Gatherer and Fulthas the Miner trainers have 0 forms for sale. The other three trainers have as said, very few forms.

1) I hope the other trainers of these schools still ahve the Jman formulas availble for those in need,

2) I was a bit surrpised to see these are being sold by way of Lore tokens.

It is part two that makes this sort of a rant...not only that they are sold by lore token, but 200c for Expert metal Bar? 250c for Expert Mining Pick and Tree Axe? That seems excessivly cheap and it makes what we hunters collect essentially worthless.

I don't know the connie cost of expert forms on Order, but on Chaos most expert forms run in the 1s-5s range, with a few posted at 10-15s. Sometimes the processing forms can be steep, but I've seen them as low as 5s also on the connies.

200-250 lore tokens would likely cost more than the 1-5s price that most forms list for on the consigners.

[Sigi]

I don't think 200 - 250 loretokens is cheap.

[AmonGwareth]

I sign the rant.
I`m not the only one, who can throw away her/his form collection.
I discussed this with a friend last night. He was very sad about this.
Makes no sense to go for forms anymore. Food for the pawn brokers.

Maybe you should consider looking at what forms they have. Trainers will not possess every form, rather they will be selling the basic forms. enough to get someone started at that tier. Processing forms and maybe a couple finishing forms. Nothing more.

[AmonGwareth]

Mostly a bug report, but also a slight rant...

Dauga the Gatherer and Fulthas the Miner trainers have 0 forms for sale. The other three trainers have as said, very few forms.

1) I hope the other trainers of these schools still ahve the Jman formulas availble for those in need

Not all trainers have been converted to sell forms yet

[Aaelefein]

It's not 200-250 Lore Tokens (Well unless using beginner Lore Tokens), it's 200c to 250c in value of Lore Tokens (Beginner = 1c, Jman = 5c).

And...yes, that is cheap for a a form that used to regularly consign for 10s and I've seen as high as 50s for the Expert Spell Shard.

I stopped posting them on the connies because they kept falling back to my vault, so I just stock piled them instead. Then when I saw someone needed them, or because I have let it be known I collect them, people search me out.

Back to the lore tokens though, not counting the time it takes to go through the dialog, I can earn 400+ Journeyman Lore Tokens in under an hour...so yeah...200-250c worth of Lore Tokens seems cheap

[Velea]

So just so I'm understanding what is being talked about here...

It isn't that the forms aren't available on the Augh. NPC's, as I thought was the case from the first post.

The problem is the price of them?

I'm really quite confused by this thread, to be honest. On the one hand, it seems that the perceived bug is that there are not formulas available. But then from other posts, it seems that the perceived bug is the cost in tokens of the formula.

Can someone unconfused the poor tired dev?

[GalemThawn]

Bug Report: Dauga the Gatherer and Fulthas the Miner trainers have 0 forms for sale. The other three trainers have as said, very few forms.


Rant: I was a bit surrpised to see these are being sold by way of Lore tokens.

[Aaelefein]

Addition to my previous reply...

For some comparisons...

As someone mentioned, the basic resource forms when the Vielo were still in game were 300s...I know...no one had one and I needed the Expert Fabric Spool.

Then there are the Master Resource forms...

The basic (Bar, brick, orb, board) ones you MUST go to the Eastern Dead to retrieve and unless one has a high adventure rating as well...can expect at least one death per trip

Imperial Outpost Master Forms...those mighty forms (Not counting blighted) are 54-56s in value and require Rank Tokens (1 = 4s) and not sure if you can, but it would require between 11,000 and 13,000 Journeyman Lore Tokens.

So yes...at the prices of 200-250c worth of Lore Tokens...yes...cheap, very cheap

[Aaelefein]

So just so I'm understanding what is being talked about here...

It isn't that the forms aren't available on the Augh. NPC's, as I thought was the case from the first post.

The problem is the price of them?

I'm really quite confused by this thread, to be honest. On the one hand, it seems that the perceived bug is that there are not formulas available. But then from other posts, it seems that the perceived bug is the cost in tokens of the formula.

Can someone unconfused the poor tired dev?

Velea...as posted in the patch notes...the miner and gatherer NPCs in Aughundell are supposed to have forms as well...they have 0 forms...none, nada, zip. That was the original reason for posting this in the bugs section.

Because the forms seem so excessively cheap and are sold via lore tokens, I also wasn't sure if this was intended or a mistake. If intended than it's not a bug, but that's where it becomes a rant-lite...for it seems excessively cheap and those forms should probably be removed from the loot tables.

[Sigi]

Back to the lore tokens though, not counting the time it takes to go through the dialog, I can earn 400+ Journeyman Lore Tokens in under an hour...so yeah...200-250c worth of Lore Tokens seems cheap

Well, good for you.

[Creme]

Back to the lore tokens though, not counting the time it takes to go through the dialog, I can earn 400+ Journeyman Lore Tokens in under an hour...so yeah...200-250c worth of Lore Tokens seems cheap

I sense a journeyman lore token quest return/drop rate nerf coming

[jerk-o]

Well, as a mid level spellcrafter (who has a few expert emblems), I get 46 lore tokens with one load of slabs, because I can carry 1600+ slabs in my disk plus inventory while wearing a complete set of ironsilk cargo gear. And the crafting quests only give 1 or 2 j-man lore tokens for completing the quest

[LaughingOtter]

And...yes, that is cheap for a a form that used to regularly consign for 10s and I've seen as high as 50s for the Expert Spell Shard.

I stopped posting them on the connies because they kept falling back to my vault, so I just stock piled them instead.

So, before this change, you had already stopped posting forms that aren't selling anyway? If the forms that didn't sell were not the same as the ones the trainers offer now, how does this change impact sales of those forms?

The purpose of this change was to give new players an optional route to acquiring a few of the basic forms, if it should happen that they cannot find someone selling them. A veteran player may be able to gather enough lore tokens to buy one of these forms very quickly, but that same player would have no problems with collecting the 10-50 silver to buy the same form on a consigner.

Obviously, part of the problem you're having with selling forms is that the game needs to have more players, so that a market exists for your forms. Once that market exists, I have a feeling that most of your potential customers will find it easier to get 10-50 silver together to buy form a connie than to do crafting quests for the lore tokens.

[Aaelefein]

So, before this change, you had already stopped posting forms that aren't selling anyway? If the forms that didn't sell were not the same as the ones the trainers offer now, how does this change impact sales of those forms?

Never said I stopped selling them, I'm just not putting them in a connie. I've done more sales out of my backpacks than through the connies.

You need to remember, it can take weeks to months for a player to move from Jman to expert level...much longer than the 2 weeks a form will stay in a consigner. It is much easier to wait for someone to ask for a form than to keep putting them back on a consigner.

And even as a Journeyman crafter (wow that was a logn time ago)...earning 40-50 Jman tokens would never have taken more than a couple hours, more of a hassle to stop what you are doing than anything else. Personally I'd rather just see lore tokens removed and everything (excpet speciality tokens, Ice/nature/imperial) and changed to a coin system

[SinOfSuns]

And even as a Journeyman crafter (wow that was a logn time ago)...earning 40-50 Jman tokens would never have taken more than a couple hours, more of a hassle to stop what you are doing than anything else. Personally I'd rather just see lore tokens removed and everything (excpet speciality tokens, Ice/nature/imperial) and changed to a coin system

Oh god, yes please! I've always disliked having to be the trainers' errand dragon just to earn the tokens to buy comps I've already spent hours grinding to be able to use! It seems like a pointless extra bit of run-around, and what's worse is since I can't spend coin on them, it doesn't matter how much I save up, I have to run off and drag loads of gems back and forth to appease the trainer-gods...

[Gnozzorg]

Personally I'd rather just see lore tokens removed and everything (excpet speciality tokens, Ice/nature/imperial) and changed to a coin system

I may not be your "average type" of new player, but I actually disagree with this one. Accumulating Lore Tokens actually added nicely to my feeling of achievement once I found out good and effective ways to earn as many of them in a short time frame as possible. Doing the NT Jeweler quests over and over with my first Tarbash Disk is a good example - several hundred Beginner LTs within a few hours was great. Finding out about the Formulatrons was the best thing ever, and selling back forms to the formulatrons actually got me my first "serious cash", i.e. a few silver coins, which I could then re-invest at the consigners for more forms.

Just recently I found out that doing the lvl 40-50 spellcrafter quests nets me a very high amount of JM tokens per disk when doing the "craft 15 granite bricks" quests, which are at optimum ratio for me because my only school at lvl 100 is Blacksmith. I am planning to go spellcrafter (and probably scholar if the quests are the same) lvl 40-50 just by doing this quest, and I am actually looking forward to it.

Changing all that to coin-based would probably not be a *problem* anymore for me after taking up a few low tiered building jobs other players pay for, but I still wouldn't really like it.

What change I would vote for to help newer players is this: Place informations about the Formulatrons at most craft trainers' dialogues, at least on NT. Paying full price for all forms is really hardcore for new players who don't know much about the game yet, because very early on, you have to work much harder for every single token than later on. Have everyone know as early as possible that there is a quick way to get many forms (although not all). I stumbled upon the existence of the Formulatrons by sheer accident, and I have been the source to that information to most new players around me since.

[Velea]

What change I would vote for to help newer players is this: Place informations about the Formulatrons at most craft trainers' dialogues, at least on NT. Paying full price for all forms is really hardcore for new players who don't know much about the game yet, because very early on, you have to work much harder for every single token than later on. Have everyone know as early as possible that there is a quick way to get many forms (although not all). I stumbled upon the existence of the Formulatrons by sheer accident, and I have been the source to that information to most new players around me since.

Thank you, Gnozzorg. This is an excellent suggestion and something I honestly haven't thought of in the many, many times I've looked at the new player experience to try to make it more friendly.

And is quite easily done as well!