About a certain lin ein the delta 169 notes...

[Shur]

Greeting V'Tieru will now attune you to the Rift destination pad if you have previously completed the ARoP.

this implies that the rift will now be reachable by teleport. According to the lore laid down in ARoP, this should not be possible, as the rift is not a place. If i recall the lore properly, it is the exact opposite of a place, it is no place.

Being a place which is no place was supposed to be the whole big complication of getting to the rift, which was a major portion of the ARoP: how does one get to a place that is nowhere and nothing? Allowing us to merely teleport there rather cheapens it. As well as being redundant considering the requirement of completing the ARoP: anyone who has completed the ARoP has the rune required to get there, a second method of getting there is redundant.

[Raptress]

The only gate that goes there is the Gate of Embers and the Rune of Teleportation is being changed to port the player to the Gate of Embers chamber, if I remember correctly from the patch notes.

[Vaz]

In the ARoP, you are supposedly using the Gate of Embers to go to the Rift. Now the game mechanics finally match that.

[Concoidal]

this implies that the rift will now be reachable by teleport. According to the lore laid down in ARoP, this should not be possible, as the rift is not a place. If i recall the lore properly, it is the exact opposite of a place, it is no place.

Being a place which is no place was supposed to be the whole big complication of getting to the rift, which was a major portion of the ARoP: how does one get to a place that is nowhere and nothing? Allowing us to merely teleport there rather cheapens it. As well as being redundant considering the requirement of completing the ARoP: anyone who has completed the ARoP has the rune required to get there, a second method of getting there is redundant.

I thoroughly agree. This is not a bug fix, this is not an improvement to the game - it is some dev's missguided attempt to "fix" what he considers an exploit - "the porting to the rift with a full disk" - which the rune permits. I consider this a priviledge earned through the passing of the AroP and certinly the "only" crafting benefit for Ancient Dragons... oh yes there is a slight increase in flying speed.

Also note that this is going to cause some issues with candidates for Ancient that fall off the edge... as we all do sooner or later. Reading the intended use of the rune it would bring you back to the Ancient Council and you'd have to port out again - two trips instead of one with the associated time loss and memory leaks and other issues we see porting every day.

It would be so much better if instead of this double porting and use of a gate (yes I know the original script called for use of the gate - but it was supposed to be a gate to "nowhere and anywhere"... ) The full inplication of the lore could be built-up and applied without any changes to code and the ensuing bugs and problems and provide the Ancient Dragons with the porting gift they have earned. Talking of problems - as an example this proposed change currently doesn't work - yes you do get sent to Vi'tieru but the gate doesn't work so - right now for Ancients there is no access to the rift in Blight.

I'm not happy with the direction the game is going for dragon crafting (what I enjoy doing mostly) it is tedious enough without taking away one of the few benefits! It isn't an exploit - it is an earned priviledge.

By the way... if it isn't supposed to be "used" why is there an opening in the wall just below the pad that is at exactly the right height to allow an Ancient Dragon to Fly through? Seems intentional to me considering how everything else is shaped in the rift!

[Creme]

This is not a bug fix, this is not an improvement to the game - it is some dev's missguided attempt to "fix" what he considers an exploit - "the porting to the rift with a full disk" - which the rune permits. I consider this a priviledge earned through the passing of the AroP and certinly the "only" crafting benefit for Ancient Dragons... oh yes there is a slight increase in flying speed.

There is also the added capacity that one gains upon becoming an Ancient.

Also note that this is going to cause some issues with candidates for Ancient that fall off the edge... as we all do sooner or later. Reading the intended use of the rune it would bring you back to the Ancient Council and you'd have to port out again - two trips instead of one with the associated time loss and memory leaks and other issues we see porting every day.

What about the leak that all players, other than Ancient dragons utilizing this method have to deal with by making 1-3 long runs and ports through several hubs depending on the from destination and the to destination? I doubt that it was the intent that Ancients be allowed to avoid these memory leaks, not to mention completely be free of any and all porting fees with a full cargo disk, 600c per port through each gate.

Talking of problems - as an example this proposed change currently doesn't work - yes you do get sent to Vi'tieru but the gate doesn't work so - right now for Ancients there is no access to the rift in Blight.

The gate does work and you can still port with your disk to the rift, so your "ancient priviledge" is still intact insofar as taking your full cargo disk into the rift and then taking the "shortcut" directly to your bind. As it stands, this proposed "fix" if it's to eliminate/discourage cargo disk rifting, is still much much faster, cheaper and more convenient than flying a full cargo disk from travertine, admantium, violet azulyte crystals, cobalt, t5/t6 gems, even mithril and marble for that matter than paying for the multiple ports and loading times.

I'm not happy with the direction the game is going for dragon crafting (what I enjoy doing mostly) it is tedious enough without taking away one of the few benefits! It isn't an exploit - it is an earned priviledge.

I think crafting has by far been improved for everyone: disks are super fast now, can port with multiple varieties, almost all t6 resources are now in game and most are unguarded. It seems overall like a win-win for crafters. Crafting is a huge part of this game and if the intent was to allow players to reach their binds with full cargo disks in a matter of less than a minute, then cargo disks would have recall capabilities. Building a t6 grandhall should not be an easy thing, whether one be an ancient or an adult dragon or even a hatchling. Using this method cheapens the effort entailed, in my opinion. But, if that's the intended game design, then it should be so stated, heck even make it one of the tips on the loading screens.

By the way... if it isn't supposed to be "used" why is there an opening in the wall just below the pad that is at exactly the right height to allow an Ancient Dragon to Fly through? Seems intentional to me considering how everything else is shaped in the rift!

No idea, perhaps no one expected players to be intentionally flying full cargo disks through it? I know that in the AROP dialogue, I never saw any mention of the special ancient shortcut via the rift with your cargo disk--attached and full.

[Creme]

It occurred to me (after edit timer elapsed) that this is actually available not only to ancients, but to any adult dragon that has started his AROP. So technically I guess you would have to consider it a pre-AROP priviledge.

[Concoidal]

You in your other form and your guildee have certainly made plenty of use of the priviledge. So no problem there. I did forget about the capacity... Thanks.

My point is that there is plenty to be fixed in this game besides focusing on what one single dev thinks is an issue in game play - fix the leaks before causing more.

Crafting has been improved - indeed - but this is not an improvement. It would be a set-back.

If the blight rift atunement is "fixed" I have not seen it work yet - tried with three different toons... two ancient dragons and one adult.

... and no... adult dragons that have started their AroP are not able to fly over the gap. At least not mine. And yes - they can port and then walk around to the north wall and jump off... but that seems different somehow.

[Shian]

A... gameplay issue? It's an issue in breaking lore, point blank.

And last time I checked, the purpose of the rift was to have adults go through thier ROP.

That's why the creatures up there drop little more than useless trinkets so people don't go up there to hunt and break immersion. It's certainly not an intended 'feature' to be able to craft up there.

Be thankful the devs aren't hurting us all for these antics and returning it back to the way it was when cargo disks would just detach when one reached the edge of the world, leaving you or a GM to go fetch it.

Concoidal I think you should just leave it be. It can be much worse.

[Creme]

You in your other form and your guildee have certainly made plenty of use of the priviledge. So no problem there. I did forget about the capacity... Thanks.
... and no... adult dragons that have started their AroP are not able to fly over the gap. At least not mine. And yes - they can port and then walk around to the north wall and jump off... but that seems different somehow.

I don't know what you can get to from where or in what (adult versus ancient). I nor my guild, nor any of my friends have ever used the rift to avoid long flights.

I am appreciative of the speed increase to disks and have felt that the change has made crafting so much better.

I'm sorry that the extra 100m you have to run now to get your disk to the rift has left you bitter to the point that you would falsely accuse others of using the same methods you feel are a priviledge due Ancients.

returning it back to the way it was when cargo disks would just detach when one reached the edge of the world, leaving you or a GM to go fetch it.

That would resolve the situation. I know there are players that have gone afk on long hauls and wound up flying across the world. I wonder if one cannot just bang against the end of the world like you do on autorun if you ran into a wall.

[Shian]

Yes it would, but it would hurt legitimate players as well. (Oh no, baby is crying/stove is on fire/I fell alseep/whatever, I have 25k m to go I should be fine going afk)

Is closing this loophole worth hurting legitimate players that would now have to wait a week to get thier disk back via GM? It's always a difficult question regarding exploits of this nature. Is stopping the exploiters worth hurting normal gameplay.

[Xarog]

What the hey?

So let me see if I understand this properly...

Not only do dragons have a method of teleporting with a cargo disc attached, BUT, apparently some dragons feel entitled to this benefit. AND THEN, despite the fact that this is a blatant exploit, the devs "fix" it by not really fixing it at all?

Frankly, I'm disgusted. Either fix the loophole or give me my teleport/recall rune so I can also go to the ends of istaria and get my materials to where I want them to be within moments. I'm a player of this game and I have a reasonable expectation to be treated fairly. Giving certain parts of the shard population a way to circumvent game mechanics is clearly unacceptable.

Edit : Seems to me this problem would be easily solvable by preventing the arop rune from working while a player has an attached disc. Why not try that instead? And then the people who are complaining because it interferes with ARoP lore would be satisfied too...

[Creme]

Is closing this loophole worth hurting legitimate players that would now have to wait a week to get thier disk back via GM?

I cannot answer that. That is why I'm asking whether or not you could just wind up bouncing at the end of the world (like you would against a wall when you're on autorun and hit the side of a building). That way your cargo disk doesn't wind up unrecoverable. Generally if I run to get a drink or something while I'm flying my disk, I hit the back arrow to stop myself from flying, because I've overflown my target before (travertine to Falathein) and I don't want to have to fly back over the island again.

[Shian]

What the hey?

So let me see if I understand this properly...

Not only do dragons have a method of teleporting with a cargo disc attached, BUT, apparently some dragons feel entitled to this benefit.
Frankly, I'm disgusted.

Actually, I would go so far as to say only one feels this way. I'm kinda hoping this one's words won't piss off the devs enough to just say 'screw it' and flip the switch back.
*Is one of those that tends to fall asleep at the wheel on occasion ^^;*

[Xarog]

Actually, I would go so far as to say only one feels this way. I'm kinda hoping this one's words won't piss off the devs enough to just say 'screw it' and flip the switch back.
*Is one of those that tends to fall asleep at the wheel on occasion ^^;*

Players know about it, and players are using it, and more than half the people I asked know this exploit exists (which points to it being "common" knowledge but not acknowledged in private).

Whether they feel entitled to it or not is irrelevant; the problem exists even if they're doing it while thinking they really ought not to.

[Xarog]

*Not acknowledged in public.

[Concoidal]

Players know about it, and players are using it, and more than half the people I asked know this exploit exists (which points to it being "common" knowledge but not acknowledged in private).

Whether they feel entitled to it or not is irrelevant; the problem exists even if they're doing it while thinking they really ought not to.

I certainly have no problem acknowledging that I use it and do so as a Dragon Crafter - not a super crafter - but one none the less.

What I am suggesting is that every one I know uses this Ancient benefit - to label it an "exploit" is throwing the baby out with the bath water. I suspect that the changes to the access to the Rift is only a step to trying to fix the alledged "exploit". This should be headed off. I also have biped crafters - they are hapy to use the dragon's capability to deliver cargo as needed. It sets up good cooperation - I could even see market analogies with bipeds buying cargo deliveries by dragons... heck - that's the way the Cenotaph's were built... Biped on site using resources carried in by Dragon air transport. It was glorious!

As far a "making the dev's mad" so they will "punish" us by reverting to lost disks and other such. Let me remind all of us that "we" are the customers and "they" are the employees. Last I checked "we" pay their salaries - "they" should be more worried about "making us mad".

[Concoidal]

[quote=Xarog;226274]
"What the hey?...

Frankly, I'm disgusted. Either fix the loophole or give me my teleport/recall rune so I can also go to the ends of istaria and get my materials to where I want them to be within moments. I'm a player of this game and I have a reasonable expectation to be treated fairly. Giving certain parts of the shard population a way to circumvent game mechanics is clearly unacceptable."


Hello Xarog, the rune was not "a gift" it was earned through a reasonably harduous and lengthy quest - I see nothing wrong with having any willing biped go through a similar quest with the lore attached to it - a better project for that matter than making some of the apparently proposed changes. There are all kind of positive ways to address this and treat every one fairly.

[Xarog]

Oh sure, why not?

And while you're at it, I'll take my armour of imperviousness that makes me immune to any and every mob attack. I've been wanting to solo that Reklar fool for a while now.

And then I'll take my weapon of uber pwnage so that I can one-shot that new queen, cuz I hear as it stands she's rather annoying to kill.

Games are designed with a certain balance in mind. It's obvious that cargo discs were provided in order to make it easier for players to move large quantities of resources, but without the ability to instantly move those resources to any point on the map. Recalling was disabled to force players to walk at least some distance, presumably to put a certain limit on just how quickly any amount of resources can be moved from one location to the next.

Your behaviour violates that principle, and thus it is an exploit, because it circumvents the intended game mechanics.

I am a also paying customer and I expect that the game mechanics function in a reasonable way - with the goal being to provide a meaningful balance between effort and achievement. I expect the devs to enforce this principle, and as such I expect them to put a stop to your wanton disregard of the way cargo discs should work.

[awdz]

I'm confused. What exactly can you do with the rift? It sounds like one or both of the following, to which I have attached my opinion based on the fact that ALL disks "prevent recall".

- Teleport/recall there with a disk from anywhere in Istaria, as opposed to finding a portal that goes there? No one can recall with a disk from just anywhere in Istaria; therefore, no one should be able to go to the rift with a disk attached.

- You can recall from the rift with disk attached?? This is absurd for items that "prevent recall".

Again, this is just my opinion based on the description of the items. I also do not know what in the rift, if anything, develops a dragon's crafting skills that it would make any sense within the lore to enable disks in there.

I know there are bugs/loopholes/cheats in game - don't know if a whopper of a biped crafting one ever got fixed - but that does not make them appropriate. I also am a customer and I disagree with those who insist on keeping the cheap exploits that were not intended game design. The biped crafting bug almost tore our guild apart; these things need to be fixed when identified.

[Deth]

My guess is the Rune of Transport allows you to teleport to the void with your disk as it is non-standard transport. Once there you un-attach the disk recall to your bind point and then re teleport to the disk with the rune of Transport.