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Thread: Queen Shaloth suggestions

  1. #1
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    Default Queen Shaloth suggestions

    I am opening this thread to allow people to offer actual changes to THE EPIC of Istaria.

    Some will want her harder others will want her easier.

    I am going to ask that people stay civil and only post suggestions not disagreements. I think the Chaos section of hte boards has a topic for that. Please leave that there.

    Suggesstions from me:

    ================================================== ================================

    I still feel she is too easy. I'm certain many will disgaree, but as I said we have a thread fo that.

    Make her all around harder (more armor/resists) and rely less on heals of her crew. That woudl appease those who dislike her heals and make her a challenge yet. I would prefer the crew that heals her stay.

    This is the first EPIC that needed treated like a raid from other games and I very much approve.

    Stun and Mezz imuunity. I've killed her without her doing damage. Chain stunning is not fair to players or epic mobs.

    More HP: an even 1 million is suitable for a goddess.

    Perhaps letting her do more melee damage not just spell use.

    Multicast like valkor

    Ethereal blade like a reaver.

    A version of ethereal paroxysm.
    Ignem Infernum - Abi in malum rem.
    Ixatchitxl the Defiler - Fafnir who? I was here first!
    Think! Its not illegal...yet.
    Adventuring: aka Genocide, Graverobbing, and Temple Desecration.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Queen Shaloth suggestions

    Moderator's Note:

    The previous topic regarding Shaloth was deleted. Please respect the forum rules when posting and allow this one to be a discussion and on topic.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Queen Shaloth suggestions

    Well I'll start by saying I've not tried her yet so my opinions dont come from having battled her yet.

    Overall other than having to switch a weapon, shuffle a few training points and change the way i hunted slightly....I've found the new content much easier than I had expected and hoped. On the queen all i can say is I'm disappointed how fast she was figured out and from what ive read of time of kills how easy she can fall. If she's getting killed in 6 minutes as some claim she needs to be much harder, even once figured out the toughest thing in game should be taking a lot longer than that. I can't comment on how she's getting killed because ive avoided all those posts, I'll figure her out myself when i get there like all the other bosses. BUT however it is its way to short of a battle if its less than half hour in my eyes.
    Last edited by Velea; August 31st, 2009 at 11:42 PM. Reason: Swearing is still not allowed ;)

  4. #4

    Default Re: Queen Shaloth suggestions

    I'm gonna go with Stun Immunity for sure, if not 100%, then at least a shield that goes up/goes down every 15-30 seconds or so and alternates.

    I'd say that would depend on the frequency of her spiritual blast, unfortunately with her current state of being mostly chain stunned, she really hasn't gotten enough off for me to be able to time that.

    Mez immunity does/doesn't matter to me, as if you want to kill her, you'll have to break the mez, which might allow players time to heal off her spiritual blasts--again, this would depend on the frequency.

    I want her adds to stay.

    I'd have to say that the number of players needed to kill her should be such that a lower population shard would be able to muster up enough players to form 1-2 groups.

    I think the fight should last a minimum of 30 minutes. I agree with Teto here.

    I'm gonna say I like the 999,999 number for her HP . It's not that far off from her current 930K+.

    I'm gonna vote no on the eth parox; her spiritual blast is more than enough of an AOE that she doesn't need another one.
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  5. #5

    Default Re: Queen Shaloth suggestions

    This is just purely a curiosity question on my part....

    What's the point of having her have so many hit points that you must beat on her repeatedly for 15, 20, 30 minutes over and over again? I've seen fights in other games last that long, and have never personally seen the attraction. In my opinion, it is like a long-winded stalemate that eventually turns into a win on one side or the other.

    Please understand that, again in my opinion, the circumstances are different from a battle I participated in in DAoC (I think it was, might have been EQ). There the battle waged on for that long, but the creature (a dragon perhaps?) had abilities that would teleport people out of combat range (basically toss you back to a "bind point"), would kill any and all in a tight melee range with a PBAOE, and various abilities like that. It made the half hour (plus) long battle have people coming and going constantly, times when different characters were needed in close (or far away).. The challenge always was can the right people be in the right place at the right time to take the creature down. Wish I could remember details better, but unfortunately old age has set in and I only have vague recollections of who I played the game with, not who it was we were fighting.

    So back to the original question... What would the point of giving her tens of millions of hit points be but to keep a group in one place for a long period of time playing "wack a mob" while the healers kept them alive?

  6. #6

    Default Re: Queen Shaloth suggestions

    Well, I don't see the point of upwards of a million HP, but I can concede that 999k is not enough of a difference from ~930k to not make the fight last more than another minute at most.

    Other MMOs (newer ones) have a series of challenges you have to beat to even get to the boss, so it could easily take 4 hours to work your way through an escalating series of challenges until you get to the big bad guy. Then that fight can last anywhere from 15 minutes to 45 or longer, depending on group composition, gear, luck, etc.

    We don't have that here, in that you can get to Shaloth in about 5 minutes. As she is currently the BIG BIG EPIC, there needs to be something to make the end reward a relatively large battle.

    The teleporting thing sounds very cool; it reminds me of Fafnir fights where the entire group is usually running around in many different directions. It's one of the reasons that Fafnir is my personal favorite fight (all the exercise you get--350 calories easy).

    However, if she is not made stun immune (partially or fully) OR her evasion bumped up against stun attacks, then the only answer I can see is bumping up the duration of the fight, by increasing her HP so that she has more opportunities to have a stun not land (like potions fade or enhances so there are misses here and there) or by giving her some automatic attacks (like Fafnir's glow is an ability that works whether he's stunned or not and so is Valkor's bats). But in a way, that would be making her a copy of them and I like her uniqueness currently.

    Having been permastunned by 2-3 carrion crawlers and watch my health erode (quickly), I can sympathize with Shaloth. Of course, it's a bit of payback, we've all been on the receiving end of a level 100 strider on one of the Satyr Islands.
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  7. #7
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    Default Re: Queen Shaloth suggestions

    I also suggest possibly letting all players in the group have a chance of looting the Myloc queen hair, like Daknor hunts.

    I think that is connected to a quest however an may not be possible, but would allow more people to make the banners and murals, or multiples without the need to camp just to decorate a plot.

    Creme explained my hit point opinion very well.

    Also a living godess should have some impressive numbers to back up her title.

    They'd be cosmetic at this point anyhow really.


    I very much agree with stun immunity.
    Ignem Infernum - Abi in malum rem.
    Ixatchitxl the Defiler - Fafnir who? I was here first!
    Think! Its not illegal...yet.
    Adventuring: aka Genocide, Graverobbing, and Temple Desecration.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Queen Shaloth suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Silverblaze
    I also suggest possibly letting all players in the group have a chance of looting the Myloc queen hair, like Daknor hunts.

    I think that is connected to a quest however an may not be possible, but would allow more people to make the banners and murals, or multiples without the need to camp just to decorate a plot.
    Heh :P

    I think she's about as far from being camped as a shard full of 100 ancients and wanting to kill Gritus Maximus

    Wanting the hair might be one of the few things to encourage players to kill her (other than for fun that is ). We let whoever needs quest credit completion loot the hair, if it's for their first plot/lair. After that, it'll be rotation until everyone that joins other fights gets the hair for any other properties. If multiple new players are in group, then we'll give them looting rights in the next kill they're present for.

    Other groups like randoming.
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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Queen Shaloth suggestions

    Well then maybe only if she gets a lot harder.

    As is I retract my opinion on the hair matter as I was ill informed of a few things about Daknor.
    Ignem Infernum - Abi in malum rem.
    Ixatchitxl the Defiler - Fafnir who? I was here first!
    Think! Its not illegal...yet.
    Adventuring: aka Genocide, Graverobbing, and Temple Desecration.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Queen Shaloth suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Velea View Post
    This is just purely a curiosity question on my part....

    What's the point of having her have so many hit points that you must beat on her repeatedly for 15, 20, 30 minutes over and over again? I've seen fights in other games last that long, and have never personally seen the attraction. In my opinion, it is like a long-winded stalemate that eventually turns into a win on one side or the other.

    Please understand that, again in my opinion, the circumstances are different from a battle I participated in in DAoC (I think it was, might have been EQ). There the battle waged on for that long, but the creature (a dragon perhaps?) had abilities that would teleport people out of combat range (basically toss you back to a "bind point"), would kill any and all in a tight melee range with a PBAOE, and various abilities like that. It made the half hour (plus) long battle have people coming and going constantly, times when different characters were needed in close (or far away).. The challenge always was can the right people be in the right place at the right time to take the creature down. Wish I could remember details better, but unfortunately old age has set in and I only have vague recollections of who I played the game with, not who it was we were fighting.

    So back to the original question... What would the point of giving her tens of millions of hit points be but to keep a group in one place for a long period of time playing "wack a mob" while the healers kept them alive?
    Why would people (me included) be so stupid as to go solo against the shadow dragon. Personally I havent been killing any epic mobs lately, but I think that for some people it feels more like a challenge when the fight lasts longer. Call it a larger sence of achivement... Eventhough it is nonsense since the endresult was already crystal clear when your group attacked a particular mob.
    Rvlion- LvL 100:100:100 - 59.3M - Lunus Ancient
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    Sslion- LvL 25 Mage, 25 Warrior, 10 Cleric, 6 Druid, 6 Monk and a few Craft Schools

  11. #11

    Default Re: Queen Shaloth suggestions

    Well If it was me and again I havent fought her I'd be looking for another way to make her harder than increasing her hit points if shes already got 930k. But increasing her hit points can change the inevitable, it as Creme says allows for more variables to come into play. Killing the epics should require a group to be near flawless and opening up the time window needed increases the chance of group error more than anything.

    All the epics are pattern kills(in any game), i was hoping it would take longer for anyone to figure out the Queen, but to me from what ive read and heard she's now in SOG category, a no brainer if shes falling in 6 minutes with Disneyland lineups for getting in the kill group to get quest reward. Maybe its just me and i'm not as good as a player as the ones butchering the queen but Fafnir, Daknor and Reklar still pose risk, one wrong move and your in big trouble. Valkor has been made a little harder just by roaming now, changing the aggro to kill unless your camping a spot waiting.

    I'm not sure what should be done changes can come from the ones that have killed her, but to me from what ive read something needs done. Maybe put her resistances on a randomizer after each kill so the next group has no idea what they are getting.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Queen Shaloth suggestions

    Well having been on a kill after the heart damage was fixed "for real", I think the heart is doing proper enough damage. When it let you hit for 1 or 2 damage, it didn't make much sense. Leaving it like that, or increasing her HP I disagree with, since in the end it will just lead to lag and disconnect issues if the fight lasts a long time.

    The +1500 heart damage + her adds not spawning last week did make it too easy. That has been resolved. Her adds are spawning again and the heart changed:

    The current way the heart dmg seems to work is like ethereal damage. In the same way that ethereal dmg bypasses normal armor, heart damage bypasses whatever special armor she has. The damage lets you hit for your normal damage amounts. So you are fighting a boss with 937k hp with your normal damage output (or pretty close from what I remember). This seems fine to me.

    I still believe that a single full group of ten players should be able to take her down. Multiple groups in the same place for a long time is another lag fest. When this happens the fun goes in the crapper.

    As far as killing her in 6 minutes, I am pretty sure that is accomplished using BHM, possibly on multiple toons. I would ask the rest of the shard to get in on a successful kill as she is now before agreeing "OMG too easy 6 minutes!11!". I think our kill took between 15 and 30 minutes (I'll go back and check the logs to be sure). And this was with a well thought out group, with some high rating toons. We did not use BHM. I think in all fairness to the rest of the shard, she is probably difficult enough. Her spirit blast takes off about 3/4 health from a typical player, if she's made stun immune the fights would be even more difficult, but likely could be compensated for by switching out 1 or 2 damage dealing toons for healers. It would depend on the frequency of the hits.

    Testing that out I am not against. But even as she is now I do not think she will be killed on a regular basis simply because you still have to put together a group of a certain composition. There can be difficulties just accomplishing that. And she is still tough enough that one wrong move by any player in the group and the fight can go south. The fact that she is currently killable by a group on top of their game doesn't necessarily mean she has to be more difficult.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Queen Shaloth suggestions

    Masks aren't necessary for a quick kill, if the characters are built the right way and in the right class. A stun immunity on her would probably be a good idea. And I agree she ought to have a nice, round, number of hit points. or as close to that million as is reasonable ;-) The rotating resistance (note: resistance, not immunity) idea also sounds good, perhaps she could also switch up between being primarily caster in one fight, more melee the next. Keep the adds, maybe give her something akin to Fafnir's glow as a warning shot to those who want to avoid her spiritual blast, and increase the damage radius on it so they have to get well away from her. Something to vary the distances from which one can attack "safely".
    ~Without death, life is meaningless. Without evil, good is naught but arrogance. Without balance, nothing is complete.~
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  14. #14

    Default Re: Queen Shaloth suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Guaran
    As far as killing her in 6 minutes, I am pretty sure that is accomplished using BHM, possibly on multiple toons. I would ask the rest of the shard to get in on a successful kill as she is now before agreeing "OMG too easy 6 minutes!11!". I think our kill took between 15 and 30 minutes (I'll go back and check the logs to be sure). And this was with a well thought out group, with some high rating toons. We did not use BHM. I think in all fairness to the rest of the shard, she is probably difficult enough. Her spirit blast takes off about 3/4 health from a typical player, if she's made stun immune the fights would be even more difficult, but likely could be compensated for by switching out 1 or 2 damage dealing toons for healers. It would depend on the frequency of the hits.
    5-6 Minutes with or WITHOUT BHM, without added ice damage. Your kill took 21 minutes, but that was with a number of changes in dealing with the adds so she got health back a number of times. Once you standardized on a consistent method of "adds-management" the fight wrapped up relatively quickly.

    What is nice currently about the Queen, is that she is killable w/out having all 150 rated+ players. But I do agree that the group should be on top of their game, each fight should have a fair chance of defeating her as well as being defeated--but it should rely mostly on skill.

    Also, I'm pretty positive she's got shields like the higher evolved mylocs do, as I've seen a number of 0 damage hits.
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  15. #15

    Default Re: Queen Shaloth suggestions

    Well I for one think the queen is just fine the way she. How long it took one group versus another group or what weapons and or tactics were used is really kind of moot and to some degree just a bit of needless posturing IMO. I think the reward verses a long series of quests ending in her kill is justified.

    However, (since this IS a suggestion thread) I personally think getting to her is far to easy. The queen herself is fine. But when you can just run by (and or through) a bunch of high level mobs and have them not even give you a second look takes away from the challenge of the lab. Additionally, I don't agree that you can "stage" your group anywhere near the queen. It should be a battle all the way to her. No rest spots until she's dead. But that's just my two cents on it.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Queen Shaloth suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Anjinsen
    However, (since this IS a suggestion thread) I personally think getting to her is far to easy. The queen herself is fine. But when you can just run by (and or through) a bunch of high level mobs and have them not even give you a second look takes away from the challenge of the lab. Additionally, I don't agree that you can "stage" your group anywhere near the queen. It should be a battle all the way to her. No rest spots until she's dead. But that's just my two cents on it.
    I'm not sure the game supports room-by-room engagements (like unlocking doors after all mobs are killed); but I can say that the final "corridor" to get to the myloc sac room is now pretty deadly. It might just be lag, or not having enough speed buffs, but I very frequently get hammered in the corridor by harbingers and have seen more than a few dead bodies from others running in (or out) of the corridor.
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  17. #17

    Default Re: Queen Shaloth suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Creme View Post
    I'm not sure the game supports room-by-room engagements (like unlocking doors after all mobs are killed); but I can say that the final "corridor" to get to the myloc sac room is now pretty deadly. It might just be lag, or not having enough speed buffs, but I very frequently get hammered in the corridor by harbingers and have seen more than a few dead bodies from others running in (or out) of the corridor.

    I can't answer for your experiences, however, the last kill I was on, I saw 20 toons sitting back behind her getting ready to attack her. So I can only guess that it's not that hard just to get to her. My point was, there shouldn't be any. But it is only my suggestion. Enough said.......

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