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Thread: Gauging Interest

  1. #21

    Default Re: Gauging Interest

    Quote Originally Posted by LOVWYRM View Post
    well spoken, Fyre
    I agree.
    I missed something it seems, would like to join the channel you are talking about.
    If you want to have me in- pls invite me

    Happy to have you LovWyrm. Anytime.
    I am usually there European am time I think? US late night time.

  2. #22

    Default Re: Gauging Interest

    I`m kinda shocked about what you say Raesh- and not thats it is new to me.

    I`ve lost some good friends to all that drama and the circumstances you describe. I thought this was history until a friend left some days ago- and you too. No matter what is said: As long as we loose 1 player due to all that- nothing has changed.
    I have no idea what to do, I can only advise to leave DC if you do not feel good there.
    Order has enough good populated chats with lots of experienced dragons, who will happyly greet new players welcome.
    YOU told me to play a dragon!

  3. #23

    Default Re: Gauging Interest

    Quote Originally Posted by LungTien Temeraire View Post
    I don't think the entire shard will roar at someone if this one don't use brackets when some are RPing. This could make the new players confused.
    I think there is a lot of nice players in the order shard, and maybe a few aggressive. Why all this fuss just about 2 buttons, '(' and ')' ?
    Should we forbid the RP on the DC? Lastly, if you dislike the DC, so much, you could still join other channels, like 'happy hunting', 'market', 'Roleplay'...
    The entire shard doesn't roar. One person roars, and the rest are silent. New players take the silence to mean everyone is in agreement, even if that is not the case.

    I agree that there shouldn't be such a big fuss, but am saddened by players leaving the shard. I would like to find a solution so that everyone feels welcome on the shard, and so that everyone can rp the way they want to, whether it be casual/ light hearted with some silliness, or hard core with epic storylines. I would like to promote tolerance that goes both ways. Roleplayers please don't insist on strict rp'ing rules in DC. However, if a new player comes online blatantly talking about current affairs, their latest shopping trip or using 'leet' speak, a private tell to kindly explain things would be best. Don't berate them in the public room.

    This is a game we all love. Let's work together to promote new subs, friendships, and shard growth.

    Chaos- Stop stealing out players! (only joking).

  4. #24

    Default Re: Gauging Interest

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyrethorne View Post
    The entire shard doesn't roar. One person roars, and the rest are silent. New players take the silence to mean everyone is in agreement, even if that is not the case.
    apart from the afk or busy ones, or the 'roaring' tells, I agree that we shouldn't stay silent when a new player is attacked by an aggressive one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyrethorne View Post
    Roleplayers please don't insist on strict rp'ing rules in DC. However, if a new player comes online blatantly talking about current affairs, their latest shopping trip or using 'leet' speak, a private tell to kindly explain things would be best. Don't berate them in the public room.
    That is what I do ( I'm not the only one) : tell politely to the new player that, when there is RP on the DC, the olders use brackets to avoid confusion and ask them if they can do this as well, not with notices, but with suggestions.

  5. #25

    Default Re: Gauging Interest

    Quote Originally Posted by LungTien Temeraire View Post
    I don't think the entire shard will roar at someone if this one don't use brackets when some are RPing. This could make the new players confused.
    I think there is a lot of nice players in the order shard, and maybe a few aggressive. Why all this fuss just about 2 buttons, '(' and ')' ?
    Should we forbid the RP on the DC? Lastly, if you dislike the DC, so much, you could still join other channels, like 'happy hunting', 'market', 'Roleplay'...
    Unfortunately this isn't about me... It's about the impression a new user will get upon first encountering the vocal minority, who happen to own one of the two TV stations in town.

    They ran me off, and I really *wanted* to play on Order - spent an extra $50 to get there, and just spent another $50 to leave. How does this bode for the curious 'trial account' who can just as easily go somewhere else?

    I agree that there are a lot of nice people on Order, which is why I'm being so darn aggressive on this - because most of them are too nice and too invested in the server to make huge waves and Order has to grow population-wise to stay viable... The folks at Vi are really quite nice, but it's still a business.

    There are more people in the guild I'm in on Chaos than there are -people- on Order. We have nights where there are more people in EoI guild-chat than people in DC and Market combined on Order...

    It's a simple business equation for an MMO; people = income, and Chaos just got hardware upgrades...

  6. #26

    Default Re: Gauging Interest

    Quote Originally Posted by LOVWYRM View Post
    I`m kinda shocked about what you say Raesh- and not thats it is new to me.

    I`ve lost some good friends to all that drama and the circumstances you describe. I thought this was history until a friend left some days ago- and you too. No matter what is said: As long as we loose 1 player due to all that- nothing has changed.
    I have no idea what to do, I can only advise to leave DC if you do not feel good there.
    Order has enough good populated chats with lots of experienced dragons, who will happyly greet new players welcome.
    Thanks Lov, I didn't want to go, but I simply wasn't happy being a paying extra for a couple player's private world.

    It just got so frustrating to see new players getting hammered in DC for things like simply not understanding the established scene or shunned by the channel because one of the resident "moody misunderstood bad-guys" took a dislike to them - all while the 'it's not so bad' players hid in private channels...

    I kept hearing "We're all not like that" from people here on the forums, but in four months and 50 levels I never saw but one of those people (Thanks for showing me around on my first day Sephiranoth).

    I did get to see Shagreth (or one of the others of similar cloth) kill a hatchling (probably an alt) in the middle of New Trismus though, which, unfortunately, is about the most memorable thing from my time on Order... The rest of the time it was me versus a big, empty world with nothing but DC for company.

    That's Order's "New User Experience"... For me at least.

  7. #27

    Default Re: Gauging Interest

    I heard about violence- and omg..

    We just were discussing this subject amongst some older drags.
    Its not that we hide our heads in the sand
    vice versa-
    And yes-we all are not like that- and we are the majority.

    But it is one thing to ruin ones good reputation trying to clean the house,
    knowing that there will be no help from VI,
    and another, to try to offer good alternatives.

    I do not fear confrontation- but this is a game in the end.
    If some misuse it as therapy for personal problems,
    I am not interested to spent my precious breath and jump in.

    and yes- its still busines.
    as long as VI tolerates such behavior in a public channel-
    there is nothing for the others players left to do.
    YOU told me to play a dragon!

  8. #28

    Default Re: Gauging Interest

    I play on Order and enjoy Order, I have been on both Chaos and Blight of the current servers and became gifted on Spirit, though Teto was born on Order. I had never played a dragon so had no idea of how unharmonious that part of the community was other than hearsay.

    After having yet another new guildmate complain about rude treatment from the established dragon community I started a thread on here about rude behavior. Like always Id say the thread defended the established characters right to be rude and demand a certain playstyle adhered to or else. My example centres around ROP start but is no real different than this thread about players trying to moderate a boted room. DC is not a player moded room and any attempt to moderate it by a player should be discouraged by developers and players alike.

    Ive recently off my blog talked 4 people into trying Hz, well none are still here and reasons for leaving were similar to what weve all heard, lack of available equipment for sale, market for anything they want to sell, and finally 2 left because of what they described as a very closed and rude dragon community.

    Having never been a dragon I couldnt really dispell or agree with their opinion of the dragon community. Until now, recently I've added a dragon to my account. I was aware if Teto just showed up as a dragon one day people would be willing to help me do whatever I wanted or get me whatever I needed. So I didnt let anyone know, not my guild or my closest friends. My findings were shocking and changed my outlook towards order. I found the overall Dragon Community to be extremely busy and to have absolutely ZERO interest in anything I may say or do....UNLESS I was looking for a spot as a peon of little consequence in someones RP all nicely laid out for me. I know people get busy, we are all playing, but we also have our own playstyles and perhaps we could all be more understanding of others. This is no different than real life and the constant "melting pot" VS. "ethinc diversity" argument countries have been struggling with forever.

    Rae I'm sorry your experience mirrored that of my guildmate, my friends and my own. I believe we met a few times over meals at the Carmo tavern and had a few short but fun conersations. Im not a heavy RP kind of guy or are most I hang with, I do enjoy participating in the odd RP scenerio, but overall play how I enjoy and thats IC acting out what my toon is doing ingame, not creating some elaborate scenerio where everyone has roles and all thats done is typing on that gaming session, I think the heavy RPers have to accept that HZ is a game as well as their RP canvass.

    Theres no reason all the different playstyles can't harmoniously blend to create a realm with so much more than just one of the styles to offer. Ive realized order isnt the perfect place I once thought it, but its still a friendly place and a fun place to spend your time, I know I'll be making a more conscious effort to make new players feel more welcome, whether I agree or disagree with how they play.

    I'm all for whatever solution makes this easy, if its a second Dragon Chat room so be it, but I hope an end comes to the days of players thinking any public chatroom needs moderated by them.

  9. #29

    Default Re: Gauging Interest

    Quote Originally Posted by LOVWYRM View Post
    I heard about violence- and omg..

    We just were discussing this subject amongst some older drags.
    Its not that we hide our heads in the sand
    vice versa-
    And yes-we all are not like that- and we are the majority.
    My apologies Lov, I didn't mean to insinuate that anyone had their head in the sand. I merely meant that DC isn't so bad when you can escape it to some other channel.

    Quote Originally Posted by LOVWYRM View Post
    But it is one thing to ruin ones good reputation trying to clean the house,
    knowing that there will be no help from VI,
    and another, to try to offer good alternatives.

    I do not fear confrontation- but this is a game in the end.
    If some misuse it as therapy for personal problems,
    I am not interested to spent my precious breath and jump in.
    I understand completely, and this is the reason I've sort of decided to champion this cause - I have no reputation to lose even though I've been 'around' since the beginning, and, now, I don't have to live on the same server with those who may take affront to what I have to say. (And I can be quite wordy when I put my mind to it, so there is certainly no lack of breath to waste )

    Quote Originally Posted by LOVWYRM View Post
    and yes- its still busines.
    as long as VI tolerates such behavior in a public channel-
    there is nothing for the others players left to do.
    Vi will tend to be very 'hands off' on this subject because they also have a reputation to protect - they cannot play favorites no matter the consequences.

    That leaves me, and anyone similarly up-in-arms, to try and solve the problem. So far I've only highlighted the issue to gauge interest and gather feedback.

    As you mentioned above, the majority of Order aren't the problem. Well then, it would appear to me that the majority might want to consider spending more time in DC...

    It's not like you have to 'fight' the current DC crowd; but with enough of the rest of Order present in the chat room for a while, and with the amazing abilities the folks on Order have shown in regards to writing and role-based interaction bringing 'Istaria' back into the channel, the current oligarchy would have to adapt or leave.

    Basically, if DC is to have a future as an RP channel - make it a good one full of welcoming people who have the desire to get new players into the world, rather than running them off with barked ((orders)) and 'holier than thou' attitudes...

    This is what we do on Chaos - "Eyes of Istaria" has NPA (our version of DC) staffed 24/7. This gives us the controlling interest in the channel and allows us, just by force of opinion, to sway things back on track when the occasional problem shows up.

  10. #30

    Default Re: Gauging Interest

    Quote Originally Posted by Teto Frum View Post
    Rae I'm sorry your experience mirrored that of my guildmate, my friends and my own. I believe we met a few times over meals at the Carmo tavern and had a few short but fun conversations.
    And I'm sorry you had your opinions of Order shaken so. The server has such promise, if one can only get past the relatively harsh barrier to entry.

    And I do remember those few meetings at the Inn in Carmo now that you mention it; thank you for reminding me. It made those few DP I was resting off all the more enjoyable. (I refer to them as Dragon Points considering how many I manage to collect each session...)

    Quote Originally Posted by Teto Frum View Post
    Theres no reason all the different playstyles can't harmoniously blend to create a realm with so much more than just one of the styles to offer. Ive realized order isnt the perfect place I once thought it, but its still a friendly place and a fun place to spend your time, I know I'll be making a more conscious effort to make new players feel more welcome, whether I agree or disagree with how they play.
    Perhaps I should try again after my ARoP, when I tire of hauling rocks... I'll create a biped on Order and simply steer well clear of the Dragons.

  11. #31

    Default Re: Gauging Interest

    Quote Originally Posted by Raeshlavik View Post

    Basically, if DC is to have a future as an RP channel - make it a good one full of welcoming people who have the desire to get new players into the world, rather than running them off with barked ((orders)) and 'holier than thou' attitudes...
    This is the rub. Dragon channel wasn't a RP channel until sometime in the last two years. These same arguments came up when Order was created at server merge. All that we got from the gods at the time was the rp rule sticky that Zideon put up in the forum. We thrashed it out and Dragon channel then stayed the ooc help channel it had been.

    I am an old dragon who remembers the days before dragon channel existed. I remember when it was first made on Spirit shard and all the mass invites to every dragon who logged in. At the time it was the safe place from the insanity of the biped rp zealots. I remember when we were shocked to log in and discover we had been "gifted" with a bot.

    Times change, it seems the rp zealots are now dragons instead of bipeds and they did a coup on dragon channel while too many of us were sleeping. The battle for that channel is lost. We aren't likely to see any more word from the gods then we did when Order was born. This is why I went ahead and made Dragon-OOC. I can only hope that the new players will see the name in channel lists and stop by. We are dragon channel, old style.


    Dracaena

  12. #32

    Default Re: Gauging Interest

    I'm sorry, I was going to stay quiet, but I need to say something. So far, in this thread and in the rant thread, all I've heard is griping and complaining, but hardly any suggestions in which to change things besides, these people are rude, so I'm leaving.

    I love rp. That's the whole point I joined this game and and this server. When a friend of mine told me we could rp here, I jumped on since another game I played sortof exploded on itself (literally, the server got struck by lightning or something)). I've been here for almost a year, and I've had some fun, but truthfully...all the griping is wearing even me down. Its a constant battle. "Don't rp here, Don't do this, too much drama, not enough drama."

    I don't think it has anything to do with clashing rp's, clashing ideas, or anything else. I think what needs to be done is everyone needs to take a step back and look at themselves. Everyone is so busy griping about someone else, that nothing good can come of it.

    Making an Dragon-OOC channel is cool. I know I would probably not go there because I never have been big on OOC. When someone passes my Dragon on the Istarian street I'm all IC. But listen to you all. You make me not even want to meet someone else, because all I'm going to be done is being griped because my rp is too heavy, or my rp is too light, or I can't do this here, or do that there, or this is for this.

    Now if someone's willing to come up with something constructive, I will jump on that bandwagon right there and help along. But truthfully, all I've heard here, and in the rant, is people so busy complaining about others, how can they possibly enjoy anything.

    Alright, I've put in my confusing two coppers, I'm going to shut up now. I just had to say something because truthfully, reading through this has frustrated me to the point that I just don't want to rp anymore, just so I can make you guys happy.



  13. #33

    Default Re: Gauging Interest

    I'm sorry, Nyoko, if my words have annoyed you. I have to say that I truly enjoyed when I was roleplaying with you in the Dragon Chat, and I'd enjoy that again, whatever you want to do with your character. I have not really understood what the "RP drama" is meaning, though...

  14. #34

    Default Re: Gauging Interest

    I joined the dragon chat yesterday as my hatchling, Awdzy. On entering, my first view was of a half-zombie dragon (player character) lying in a bloody, oozing mess on the ground with no one actively help him. This went into an interesting roleplay with my hatchling ultimately proclaiming the half-zombie an abomination. I thought those participating did a good job of roleplay.

    That said, I do not think that kind of scene is anything a newbie should be expected to deal with. Those using it are so entrenched into that channel, that I do not think it reasonable to expect the intense roleplay to move. Therefore, I think Dracaena's creation of the Dragon OOC channel was a good idea.

    However, when I first started, I had no idea what OOC meant. I did understand "help" though. I think it would draw those looking for help more readily if the chat was called DragonHelp instead. Also, I think the bot should be moved out of the Dragon chat channel to whatever the dragon help channel is.

    I know the Dragon-OOC channel has been going for a few months now and that those in it probably don't want to bother changing the name. I'm just offering my current perspective, take it or leave it.

  15. #35

    Default Re: Gauging Interest

    I think that unless a dev steps in and says "NO" to either OOC or RP in the dragon chat channel, then we will always have this disagreement. It will wax and wane as people come and go, but it'll still be a topic. All I can really suggest is that everyone be excellent to one another and party on.
    Seriously though, 'do onto others' and all that. If someone new comes into the channel why not help them? I don't see anything lost from that course of action. I have sent many new players a tell to the effect of "Hi, welcome! The trend in the dragon chat channel is to post Out of Character text in brackets. If you need any help let us know. "

    Is that wrong? I think it's a fair compromise?

    Honestly coming back after being away from the game for a while and reading this thread left me feeling pretty sad. I rarely roleplay in the channel (haven't for months), but some of my more fond memories were the lighthearted silly roleplays I used to get involved in in that channel, years back.

    Big crunchy ancient dragoness of Order

  16. #36

    Default Re: Gauging Interest

    There were roleplay yesterday, and not so rarely, recently.

  17. #37
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    Default Re: Gauging Interest

    okay i may be a little lost, but as i see it, someone(s) wants to have a roleplay and a non roleplay dragon chat channel on order?
    whats the problem?
    you can certainly create all the player channels you want, can't you?
    sorry if i am speaking out of turn, but what's to stop anyone from creating a ic/ooc channel to suit whatever purpose is desired?
    you can't cast a play in hell and expect angels as actors
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  18. #38

    Default Re: Gauging Interest

    Quote Originally Posted by velveeta View Post
    okay i may be a little lost, but as i see it, someone(s) wants to have a roleplay and a non roleplay dragon chat channel on order?
    whats the problem?
    you can certainly create all the player channels you want, can't you?
    sorry if i am speaking out of turn, but what's to stop anyone from creating a ic/ooc channel to suit whatever purpose is desired?
    That's basically the crux of the issue.

    The little point of contention is that the Dragon channel is botted and is therefore sort of the 'landing zone' on the server for new players who, due to the main draw of the game being its playable Dragons, tend to gravitate there.

    It appears that the reason folks have turned Dragon into an RP channel in the first place is because it was the most populated, being as it's the afore mentioned landing zone and comes with a built-in audience - which appeals to some of the more aggressive players.

    So, ultimately, new users are immediately - upon divining the complexities of the chat system - thrust into a barely-Istarian pocket dimension that can often be full of nasty semi-demonic blighted evilness swimming in a pool of it's own fluids, and is often a not-so friendly place where if you mistype your parenthetical demarcations, you'll end up with a rump full of teeth...

    And this is where new players are expected to ask questions, get help, and learn more about Istaria.

    Think of it as the textual equivalent of a new player porting into Bristugo from NT right as someone has kited an epic boss to the portal area - they sort of appear into a world of hurt that isn't exactly indicative of a normal Istarian day.

    That's the real heart of the issue from what I've experienced and others have mentioned.

  19. #39
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    Default Re: Gauging Interest

    Quote Originally Posted by Raeshlavik View Post
    Think of it as the textual equivalent of a new player porting into Bristugo from NT right as someone has kited an epic boss to the portal area - they sort of appear into a world of hurt that isn't exactly indicative of a normal Istarian day.
    Bad example. People are not bothered because of this, only because the Consigner happens to die...
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  20. #40
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    Default Re: Gauging Interest

    It may be a bad example, simply because it brings up a whole new and diferent set of issues, but aside from that he nailed it 100% in my opinion.
    Dragon Scroll; BLIGHT~Anam, Ahleah; CHAOS~Veruliyam, Ceruliyan, Jaguarundi, Spinel, Ssussurrouss, Chon; ORDER~Aucapoma, Susurrus

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