Dragon Breath

[Litarath]

I've perused the forum and did the search, so I didn't see a topic about this, but out of curiosity...

Why not make it possible for us to put TPs into Dragon Breath? Its a class related ability right? That class being that of the dragon adventurer... We can put TPs into T&C and Primal, but what about Dragon Breath? I know of a couple people who'd like to build their dragon so that their breath was their most powerful attack; scales built for that are nice... true, but why not let us use Dragon Breath too as an ability to train? I'm thinking that since Primal and T&C both have a cost of 3 TP to upgrade skill, that it could be the same for Dragon Breath.

Just a thought, and hopefully something for you to consider as well.

~~~Litarath

[velveeta]

hmmm never thought about it before, but i wonder too.....
must be some reason for not having tp for dragon breath, that would be awesome......
there are the quests to master it, of course, but that is a thought.....

[awdz]

dragon breath is not based on primal skill? when you look on your skills list, does it give dragon breath as one of them, or is dragon breath an ability (like cloak of thorns is an ability for a druid, based on nature skill)?

[Litarath]

Dragon Breath is not based on Primal skill, its an ability based off the skill Dragon Breath

[Sereamha]

So far as I know, chance to hit is based on Dragon Breath, and damage is based on the Power stat I believe.

[Litarath]

It gets skill added to it based off Power, Strength, Dexterity and Focus, just as T&C gets skill from Dexterity and Strength and Primal gets skill from Power and Focus.

Skill affects chance to hit AND damage, so if we could add TPs to Dragon Breath itself, it would help us make our breath weapon more powerful and accurate.

[LOVWYRM]

I support that idea- breath needs TP too!

[Guaran]

I actually do not support this idea.

I DO support increased skill in Dragon Breath granted per level. Perhaps more only for the adult and ancients. The existing base skill can apply to Hatchlings.

Dragon Breath should be the innate, primary, defining attack for dragons. It's been slightly improved about a year ago, and chance to hit improved some. I think there is still room for more improvement.

Before the thread gets derailed in "dragons are too powerful" arguing, I will point out that the only way a dragon can be powerful is to max out training points in tooth&claw. Other schools require little to no training points to attain highly effective "attack" levels. Or usefulness levels. Dragons should not have to spend half of all training points in the primary skill.

So my suggestion would be additional skill gain/level in some or all 3 of the skills breath/claw/primal.
*PLUS*
Ability to train dragon breath.

Or simply increase the breath skill gained per level by 25% from what it is now for adults and 50% from what it is now for ancients.

Doing it this way vs using training points, makes the adult and ancients feel more naturally powerful. And the skill increases without taking training points away from claw/spell.

[Hraefn]

Guaran's idea sounds pretty awesome.

[Litarath]

Interesting point, Guaran.

However, could you explain then, how a hatchling that went to 100 before ascending to Adult or Ancient could ever increase skill in Dragon Breath after they ascended with that method, if adults and ancients gained more skill in Dragon Breath than a hatchling?

By that take, it would mean that someone who wished to play to a 100 hatchling would lose out all that ability to gain Dragon Breath skill from being adult or ancient and thus when they finally chose to ascend. If they did so, they would be unable to get all that boost of 25% for adult and 50% increase for ancient.

Second, would not such a thing actually limit an adult's Dragon Breath as well? since most dragons that I've seen don't do the Ancient Rites until at least 100 they would not get any further Dragon Breath skill when they finally ascended. Could you also offer a way that could help?

Third, I'm not saying we have to gain more primal/T&C per level as well (although that would be nice because with the quests that would give us base of 1100 <3) Dragons currently get 10 into Dragon Breath per level, 9 primal and T&C (although with quests that comes out to 10, in a roundabout way). Yet, they can still choose to 'max out' Primal and T&C with TPs, why should we not have the same for Dragon Breath?

On another note, not to make this a biped vs dragon topic either, but to illustrate a point. There are some classes that get 11 points into a particular skill. Take Wizard for example, they get 11 points into Energy, but can STILL train that particular skill even higher if they so wished.

Back to the point of TPs into Dragon Breath, as previously stated, there are a few dragons I've talked to who would like their Dragon Breath to be their core attack.... and so being able to add points into this stat would help make that so. One could also think of it being kinda like a Gold Rage of Dragon Breath.

It would be another way to even further customize your character depending upon how you wished to play them.

[Takora Drakan]

By all means, but I don't expect that a hatchling can as good breath as fire as a adult or ancient. It is like of you tell a child to run against a adult, the adult will outrun the child because they can take bigger steps.

Ancient is the final evoultion of a dragon so to say, to the big bangs should be available only in this stage.

And I don't want to start not a biped vs dragon thing, but just one example:
When a biped wants to play the best healer that is possible, they have to max out several schools to get the skills and abilities, like druid, shaman, healer, cleric, spiritst etc. When a dragon wants to be the best they have to get ancient. Just a comparison. If you want to max out something, you have to take out steps that are possible, and that means you have to get ancient if you want to max out your dragon stats and abilities.

If people want to stay hatchling/adult for whatever reason that is fine, but never expect that they will be as strong or outmatch an ancient.

[Guaran]

Interesting point, Guaran.

However, could you explain then, how a hatchling that went to 100 before ascending to Adult or Ancient could ever increase skill in Dragon Breath after they ascended with that method, if adults and ancients gained more skill in Dragon Breath than a hatchling?

By that take, it would mean that someone who wished to play to a 100 hatchling would lose out all that ability to gain Dragon Breath skill from being adult or ancient and thus when they finally chose to ascend. If they did so, they would be unable to get all that boost of 25% for adult and 50% increase for ancient....

The change is retroactive so to speak. A level 100 hatchy, would get the skill gain once they ascended. Your stats already instantly increase for adult and ancient: Power strength and focus all increase immediately for adults, and additional power and strength for ancients. These are the changes which have had the side effect of granting a bit more breath skill.

As far as also being able to train it on top of that, I don't see any reason why not.

[Litarath]

Ah, thank you Guaran for clarifying that, then, by all means, I'd support that there.

and Takora, yes, that is understandable, quite so. I'm not saying that a hatchling should be stronger than an Ancient in regards to that. My concern was that if one ascended 'late' that they would not be able to get such skill when they finally chose to do so. However, Guaran clarified that concern. A racial 'improvement' (adult & ancient bonuses) with 'age' would certainly be nice in regards to Dragon Breath along with being able to train the Dragon Breath Skill itself.

[BrightCat]

I support this because firstly; what are dragons know for? Breathing fire! It makes sense that it'd be one of their core weapons aside from TnC and primal. I'd like to be able to use my breath attacks against challenging foes and not have it miss all the time. The way it is now, I generally just use the breath attacks when I run out of other things, but it just ends up missing. :/ Okay, breath attacks don't miss quite as often as they used to, but they still aren't something I'd really rely on in a fight like the other abilities. But anyways, training points in dragon breath!

[ChromaticMind]

My best guess is that Dragons cant TP this ability because its a racial, not a class ability. Cant say for sure but I don't believe any of the other racials can be TP'ed either.

[Litarath]

I'd not quite agree; in the example of Saris and Elves, each has a racial initial 10 points into a class stat.

Life for Saris and Bow for Elves; if those are racial, then by that surmise, they should not be able to train them too even though they are also given by class training.

Even if it IS a racial ability, why would one not be able to train themselves to better excell at something that is innate within them?

[ChromaticMind]

You misunderstand, I am not argueing against being able to train dragon breath, I am simply stating my opinion as to why it currently isnt able to be trained.
I do not currently play a biped so I cant really speak to the examples you have given, but if you know of any racials that can be trained that are not also linked to a "class" trained ability, it may go further with the powers that be to make dragon breath trainable as well.

[Litarath]

To everyone who read or reads this topic; I wanted to give you an update on this suggestion, I'd sent in a ticket suggesting this idea, and here is the response I got. ^-^


Quote:

Hello,

Thank you for the well thought out suggestion.

I will pass it on to the design team for them to consider.

Thank you for playing Istaria,
Velea

/end Quote


So it seems that this idea may be implemented in the future, let's keep our hopes high!

[LOVWYRM]

thy Litarath, for bringing that in.
I support this idea!

[Litarath]

another note... in case the readers wished to see the ticket submitted, I'll post it here too and for those of you with further ideas, such as ones offered by Guaran and a few others, feel free to add them into this topic as well.

Quote:


Greetings,

I am writing to offer a suggestion for dragons. I've done some research on the classes that bipeds could take and this came to mind.
I've noted that every skill that a biped could gain from any class they take (i.e. bow, life, spirit, etc) could be upgraded with Training Points. However, when looking at dragons, I've noticed that they cannot upgrade their Dragon Breath skill.
As it is both a class ability and a racial trait, one would believe that a dragon, if they so desired could upgrade their Dragon Breath skill, much like Primal and Tooth and Claw.

Not only would this help further allow players to customize their characters, for both RP-reasons and player preference, but so too, would it assist in helping a dragon's breath be more accurate and damaging. I do understand there are a number of players who would like the opportunity to be able to train their Dragon Breath skill, instead of only relying on crystals and specialized scales to raise such skill.

In addition, as Dragon Breath is a class skill, in the same manner Primal and Tooth and Claw is, this could also potentially unlock possibilities for further Dragon Breath quests as well, such as Dragon Breath Mastery, but also, neither would that necessarily have to be implemented too, as dragons do get 10 into that skill per level. Although it could potentially add more depth to the class.

In regards to the values that could be used for dragons to upgrade their breath, I was considering, three training points to upgrade it, just as one would be able to upgrade Primal and Tooth and Claw.

I have also made a thread about this suggestion before too, however, there was no response and those involved would like to know what sort of road blocks, or difficulties this could impose upon the team. However, to note, a while back, armor was accidentally added in as a skill, before it was fixed after the next maintenance session. In light of that evidence, perhaps it would not be a very difficult skill to add as the accidental addition was quickly corrected.

Here is the link to the topic discussing my suggestion as well, perhaps it shall also offer more options to your team.

http://community.istaria.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=21476

Thank you for your time and consideration.


/end Quote


And the link, of course, will lead you right to this topic... so don't click it... unless you'd like to be sent back to the top of this page xD