I'm really worried that Istaria will fall apart.

[Vahrokh]

I don't know if I can address to Amon directly (in other games it's forbidden), but I'll assume that after so many years in the same boat this is a family and not just a game.

Lovwyrm posted something that went ignored:

Back to the topic
What we have to find out is:
Why do veteran players leave?
Why don`t new players stay?
Which is the best target group for our game (on the base of the features we already have)
and how /where can we intoduce our game to them?

Now, let's sit down and think.
/hands calumet

First of all, is there a problem? Ie someone acknowledges that *something* needs to be done at all?
I mean, beyond the drama that tends to invade every forum, there should be an analysis performed.

Components of the issue:
- We know for a (lucky) fact that VI, Amon, Velea etc. are doing their possible best for this game.

- We know Istaria has player numbers issues. I don't have figures but even in case the game is not slowly bleeding to death any more, the player base is sparse at best.

- We know Istaria has technical issues. In a certain way, Istaria is still a beta. The vast array of feature needs polish (I am not talking about redoing quests text). Example, the combat system in multiplayer conditions tends to desync and lag even with low numbers. Aggro mechanics are embryonal. Simulation in "quasi 3D". The very basic mechanisms of economy and items lifecycle required crutches, pawns tweaks, Nadia and much more.

- Imho Istaria has also gameplay issues. I.e. the WA don't aggregate the players in a convincing and strong enough way against them. Players don't log in with the firm idea to crush them, in fact they log in thinking about cutting some trees for a gazebo. Now, diversification of interests in a sandbox game is good but WA are so mild in their effects that are a minor nuisance.
The relations and economy flows between players are exclusively based on friendship, without a defined cash and items flow.

- We know Istaria had a suffered youth. Some scars of old mismanagement (ie the HORRIPILANT fame, everyone in other MMOs I talk about Istaria with, instantly become mad, froth at the mouth and want to hit me with a spiked club wetted in acid).
Other scars due to misfortune, others to technical issues etc. These scars are here to stay. The brand cannot recover.

- What's left in Istaria are the most enamored players of its current playstyle *and also* of all the developers we got those who like the current playstyle.
Hence any decision will be affected by this bias. That is that the game is kind of fine as is.

- We don't know Virtrium objectives. Are them enthusiasts whose mission is to let Istaria survive? Or are them interested at earning money out of it in the style of other MMOs? This is important, because in the first case they will support the game even below profitability but being happy with it they won't change it. In the latter case they'd have to report the balance to someone and it has to be positive. Else changes have to be made.

Consequences:
- low player base. On Order bordering unacceptable.

- continuous (despite the reassurances) player base fears of the game closing down. After all most of us have played other MMOs and witnessed them being closed when they fell below a minimum thresold.

- the natural turnover makes old players quit. Some new players enter. Some of them stay. But how many? Are them enough to keep the game running indefinitely?

- the thought that the game is fine as is, is shared among those who are left. But are those who are left a 100% of a playerbase, or 1% of the now missing playerbase?

Amos, as Game Designer (grats on that!) has to have an idea on what can be done.
I am sure he has to have a long term plan that is much broader than redoing quest texts or a dungeon.
Does that plan involve something to get Istaria back to say 10,000 players?
Because there are supporters hanging around (I am one: don't mistake my observations as negative attitude, I'd just not bother coming back here any more if I did not love the game *and* many players).
But those supporters are scared.
I have 3 plots, one of them almost fully built. But why should I come back and continue on such long committment (not without its moments of pure grinding) when I don't know if there'll be a tomorrow where the game is back to healthy numbers?

I don't even know if there is a plan at all to raise Istaria. The Developers seem happy as is, like they are preserving a Michelangelo.

At the same time, I go back in time... me with no less than 100 hatchies scurring around. Helping them on a starter island that is no more.
Me with the Ancients Dragons who sometimes come back but stay out for years.
Me selling my things and feeling happy. There was a market upon a time, not a zombie pawn chain.
Me in the elder, lush Aradoth with many friends, fighting those nasty black T2 golems. Before DB nuked the good of that land.
Me outside the oh-so-laggy Tazoon with a dozen of guildies killing those pesky level 31 skeletons.
Hundreds building epic structures together.

Now, why should I come back. Istaria remains the years old definition of "that game got so much potential" we used to say on Tazoon.com.
But now I feel a knot of sadness when the never ending desire to log in pushes harder. And I am paralyzed.

Now analyze me and you'll know why people stop playing and eventually what to do to restore Istaria. Something I beg you to do on my knees.

(Please forgive me if I am pathetic)

[Nambroth]

don`t do Nam-please
you surely are not the only one, and if it was not that sad, I would lol.
Istaria is not that one dev, nor is the forum or the other devs.
Lets discuss it in public if it was an answer in the forum that annoyed you- and be sure I will assist you, cause my patience is running out too, or
if it was an answer to a ticket you send- send your inquiry to another dev, telling that you can`t live with the answer given.
At least this is what I gonna do in future.
We are customers, and we deserve the best service available.
Confusing answers, a patronizing know-it-all attitude and a massive absence of of empathy is no service or help at all.

I know Lov. I am sorry I am so annoyed/frustrated about this. I am usually so laid back but seeing so many things happen over the last month (or so) have really really disappointed me.

I wish I could speak my mind in a constructive way but even then I am worried about being banned for somehow baiting. Isn't that sad!! I am to the point where I feel I can't voice my crits without being punished. I am doubly frustrated because I feel that even though one person does not represent the game.. when they are a person in power, they do represent the game and the company!

But I am biased... I am said person in power on another place, and I know I represent my company and the product it produces because I am usually the only interface the customers/users have with the company. In this way I realize that what I say and my actions are viewed by the customers/users with great scrutiny. Sometimes that is not fair!, because I am just human too with work outside of my other job and real life issues, but jobs are often not fair and still need to be carried out with a level of professionalism and even-handedness. If I alienate the customers of my company by displaying a lack of patience, or a intolerance for feedback (bad or good) I know I am doing my company and the customers a great disservice.

[Nambroth]

Also, I want to second something that Vahrokh said.

Many are so concerned. All of the folks I talk to regularly that play Istaria are worried. I don't know how common our worry is.. but we worry because we love this game, and we're scared of it going away. For me, the population on the server I play is so low that it's already on the verge of just not being worth it, because I play for the community. I say the things I do out of love- I WANT this game to do better. I want to see the numbers up again and I want to have fun again! I too might be considered pathetic but I really am concerned. And being told 'don't worry' without a good reason why is even more unsettling.

[AmonGwareth]

You say you are concerned, you say you are worried that it will be shut down, and yet we have made many posts about this very topic. I will say again: The game is growing, it is in the black, why would we shut it down? We are not owned by Electronic Arts that requires you to bring in a certain percentage of profit or be shut down (like Earth & Beyond). We are self-owned, and we are careful.

If the game was dying we wouldn't bother creating new content or developing new systems or artwork. We wouldn't continue to post here, we would simply let it go.

But we do post, we do develop, and we do plan. We care. That in itself should be enough to show that the game is not dying or dead.

I wish I could speak my mind in a constructive way but even then I am worried about being banned for somehow baiting. Isn't that sad!! I am to the point where I feel I can't voice my crits without being punished. I am doubly frustrated because I feel that even though one person does not represent the game.. when they are a person in power, they do represent the game and the company!

You can speak your mind about the game. But if the issue involves members of the staff then posting on the forums is the WRONG WAY to go about expressing your concerns. You should voice concerns about the staff through proper channels using the support site.

If you follow the rules, use common sense, and carry a respect for all individuals no matter who they are or what their position is in the game (player, developer, lurker, etc) then you will not run afoul of anyone and will not need to be worried about being banned or having posts deleted or whatever.

[LOVWYRM]

WE-players an VI have initiated a lot of things in the last weeks.
We are moving forwards step bei step-
Istaria is a small game, which makes small steps-and that is prudential, makes it calculable.

There are some threads here atm, which deliver a lot of good new, and old ideas.
I wish someone could make an objective summary of all this suggestions in all threads(I tried it- I`m not too lazy to do that- its my poor English which would make it sound too amateurish)-
so the devs could give their statements to that, and we could discuss the single ideas.

[Nambroth]

You say you are concerned, you say you are worried that it will be shut down, and yet we have made many posts about this very topic. I will say again: The game is growing, it is in the black, why would we shut it down? We are not owned by Electronic Arts that requires you to bring in a certain percentage of profit or be shut down (like Earth & Beyond). We are self-owned, and we are careful.

I am sorry Amon. I don't mean to be a downer. I know you folks are trying to move forward and develop the game. I'm involved in some of the developments, actually. But all I, as a player, can see are the numbers online when I log in, and they are very low. It makes me worried. Thank you for helping to quell the worries.

You can speak your mind about the game. But if the issue involves members of the staff then posting on the forums is the WRONG WAY to go about expressing your concerns. You should voice concerns about the staff through proper channels using the support site.

I was unaware the support site should be used like this (and that the forum should not). Thank you for letting me know.

[AmonGwareth]

I was unaware the support site should be used like this (and that the forum should not). Thank you for letting me know.

No problem. For the record, I would refer everyone to the forum rules at http://community.istaria.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=16362

And the paragraph in particular is:

Grievances and problems with other members of the Istaria community, be they from the forums or in game, should be discussed in private only. If discussing a problem between the parties involved does not lead to a resolution, contacting a moderator or filing a support ticket is the next step, not posting on the forums. This includes posts which don't "name names" but imply an issue with a member or members of the community. Such posts will be deleted and the poster will be asked to discuss the matter privately.

[velveeta]

i just recently had a post deleted because it was an answer to a derail.......

not sure i am all that understanding about that, but i have to say i am trying to be understanding - but i have to say i am starting to agree with others about the possible heavy hand of.......don't want to say censorship......editing, yeah that is it, heavy hand of editing.
it does end up making it hard to figure out what will be acceptable and what will get you a smak on the knuckles with a stainless steel ruler.....

[AmonGwareth]

i just recently had a post deleted because it was an answer to a derail.......

not sure i am all that understanding about that, but i have to say i am trying to be understanding - but i have to say i am starting to agree with others about the possible heavy hand of.......don't want to say censorship......editing, yeah that is it, heavy hand of editing.
it does end up making it hard to figure out what will be acceptable and what will get you a smak on the knuckles with a stainless steel ruler.....

That too is covered in the rules linked above.

Topic “derailing� is not acceptable. This means that if your post is going to cause further posts after it to be off the original topic, the moderator has the option to move the post to a new thread, or remove it in order to keep the thread on topic.

For the record, these posts are derails and should also be removed or moved. Going to leave them though.

[Ahael]

Thanks for the info Amon! Maybe people are more nervous now, as the economy (not in-game, the real life one ) is not so good. I tried to talk about this earlier, but I think that reply got buried by a certain rather long wall of text But this also show people have an affection for the game. Why worry if you don't care?

Also, I have to say, I haven't seen this much developer dialogue anywhere in a long time. And I talk about other games too. All in all, a good thing and a good omen IMHO

How did that song go, "Always look on the bright side of life"...

[Teto Frum]

Minus the live events we used to have Istaria is in much better shape than ever despite the population problem. Beginner world is redone, new high zones, and monsters, T2 nearly revamped and coming live, several classes with new quest lines, and massive client improvements, and none of that even touches the first year of VI's ownership which was wasted cleaning up EI billing mess, restarting blight etc, etc.

I don't think anyones questioning VI's dedication Amon by wondering how we possibely survive with the current numbers, but if you guys say all is fine I'm ok, I would never question any of the development teams love of the game, LOL some of the decisions sure, but we can't all always agree. Istaria is the best MMO on the market to this day for adult players who don't want to feel rushed or led. If you ask me thats the majority of gamers, we just need to get them here to try it.

All I can control is the fact that VI will get my money every month and that I'll be ingame as much as possible. I do think alot of the reassurances as honest as they maybe, are being met with skepticism because alot of people have had their landlord or bank assuring them they weren't losing their house...their boss telling them their job is save. Lets be honest dieing games milk the client base for all they can before they pull the plug, I'm not implying in the least this is VI's plan but it can't help be in the minds of veteren gamers watching the shard populations plummet and friends of years pack it in.

Good luck I'll be here till the end, hopefully its years to come.

[Phillip]

I think Vahrokh got it all in one shot there. Well done.

Now look, this isn't about being a downer or anything like that. I wouldn't be here if I didn't love Istaria. I do have a tendency to be bold, as Vahrokh. We shared much on the basis of understanding and disappointments for this game and the reasons therein.

Maybe Vahrokh and I are wrong. We worry too much. We don't know enough. Or maybe through the years our voices fore-warned of what may be - equals to precisely what is now.

The current trend is familiar, I can't help but fear history may repeat itself. Hey listen: I would love to be wrong. Please, prove me wrong.

[Velea]

Please, prove me wrong.

No problem, already done. You're wrong. Virtrium has BUILT the game for two years now. We've HELD the game longer than any company. And even without spending thousands in marketing (as previous companies have done), the number of new people playing and subscribing to the game is seeing a steady growth. The number of long time subscribers who are leaving is right in line with what makes sense given the longevity of the game and the current real economy. And the number of people who once played the game long ago and coming back is higher than expected.

I'm really not sure what more "proof" people are looking for that Istaria is both stable and growing than that. I've said it, I believe Amarie has said it, Amon has said it... and yet this thread keeps going. So maybe at year 3, or 4, or 5 you'll start to believe it.