Nothing to do, Nowhere to go, No one to see

[awdz]

I think Raeshlavik made some good points. I always assume public chats (ones with bots in them) are local to everywhere on the shard. In-character actions and conversation on the shard should not require (()) in public chats. If you are doing a roleplay that you do not want interrupted by other activities on the shard, perhaps a player made chat is a more appropriate place for it?

Personally, I think the parentheses are overused in public chats. IMO, a question about where to find something in Istaria, a question about whether there is something available on the connie, or a question about with whom a questor needs to speak, does not need parentheses because a character may ask another character about that if face-to-face.

[Xepher]

I think Raeshlavik made some good points. I always assume public chats (ones with bots in them) are local to everywhere on the shard. In-character actions and conversation on the shard should not require (()) in public chats. If you are doing a roleplay that you do not want interrupted by other activities on the shard, perhaps a player made chat is a more appropriate place for it?

Personally, I think the parentheses are overused in public chats. IMO, a question about where to find something in Istaria, a question about whether there is something available on the connie, or a question about with whom a questor needs to speak, does not need parentheses because a character may ask another character about that if face-to-face.

And some DO ask these questions ICly, there's nothing wrong with that. However, if you play a character that does not typically ask for help because thats just how they are, asking OOCly and thus in brackets is often a much more 'logical' approach, so you aren't doing something thats out of character. My character as an example would not ask directions to all sorts of places during quests etc, but when I first started playing, I REALLY needed to ask a lot of questions.

Not trying to argue or anything, just stating a small point =]

[LungTien Temeraire]

Raeshlavik, I was certainly not intending to correct you or to lay down any rule. I have only been told that the RP in the Dragon chat, without ( ), is normally set in a clearing, with trees, grass, rocks and water. Rhe 'should' isn't like a 'must'.
If you was considering your character was going to Carmo from the clearing, then I have misunderstood that and I apologize.

[Tcei]

As a relative new comer to the RP on Order I'd like to point out that there are a lot of rules, and no two people have the same opinion of what those rules are, which makes breaking into the chat a bit tricky.

There seems to be a wee bit of self-appointed RolePolice crackdown action going on - my most recent encounter was when I was logging for the night and posted in Dragon: "*trots off to the tavern in Carmo to grab a bite to eat and rest off a few deaths" which was immediately followed up with "((That should have been posted in (()) as the RP here is in a clearing))"

Umm, yeah? So what did I do wrong? Carmo doesn't exist where 'Dragon' is? Do we not talk about deaths as Gifted who get to cheat its eternal grip on a daily basis? I'm just curious and like I said, I'm new here...

Another recent example was when C'gan answered a question he thought was directed at him and got "*arches an eyeridge at the human who appeared out of no where and answered a question not directed at him" - I realize some folks don't like humans, but this was simply being rude.

Just remember you reap what you sow - if 'Dragon' isn't a nice place, no one will frequent it. If you really feel you need to correct someone, mention it (nicely) in a tell, don't belittle them in public chat. If someone appears confused as to the location or environment (there's no entry text on the channel to set the scene, so new folks have to simply guess), play up a nice description or something rather than OOCing at them.

That whole 'attract more bees with honey' thing applies here.

Dragon has seen many different versions, its most common appearance is that of a clearing normaly with a water source some rocks and cliffs and/or lava source. It has been described as a cave, converted to in game locations such as Dralk, or even described as a non-physical place, i.e. we're all mindspeaking. Alot of it depends on who's in the channel at the moment.

In truth it's an ooc channel that's sees lots of rp usage, simply because we are so spread out over the world. As a result there's no "official" location for Dragon. Nor has there ever been an agreed upon appearance for the location by the players. The whole use of brackets for ooc stuff in the channel is simply common courtesy, and is encouraged but, Its not, nor has it ever been required.

As for the rp "police" sounds like some people need to lighten up and let others play the way they want to play. But meh. Thats my inner rage demon talking.

[BrightCat]

Yes, and I thank you for that xD Its actually sparked a bit of RP for Xeffer, recently!

Yay! x3 Trying to figure out some sort of plot for him instead of just attacking people. That'll get old pretty fast I think. I'll make it up as I go!

[Raeshlavik]

Raeshlavik, I was certainly not intending to correct you or to lay down any rule. I have only been told that the RP in the Dragon chat, without ( ), is normally set in a clearing, with trees, grass, rocks and water. Rhe 'should' isn't like a 'must'.
If you was considering your character was going to Carmo from the clearing, then I have misunderstood that and I apologize.

Yes, I try to pose an entry and exit from the channel when I come and go so that folks know if I'm 'there' or 'away'. It's a habit from *way* too much IRC roleplay I think.

And no worries Lung, as I mentioned, I'm the new guy here and was merely wondering if I was missing something in the setting. I'm certainly not upset or anything, I just want to make sure I know what's expected of me and using my confusion to illustrate the problems other new folks to Order might be having.

[Veruliyam]

I just jumped in with all 4 feet, and **** the Breaths of Fire.

Aucapoma

[Nyoko]

If I may, I must admit the past couple of weeks I have been one of those 'rp police', not because I don't want people to play as they want to play, but that is because I finally became frustrated with how things were. There were an influx of new players, a couple who forced rp (God mode as we call it) on my character, completely interrupting anything I was doing, because they wanted attention, and a person can only take so much of that. It doesn't make it fun for others. It makes me not want to get on because I am afraid of running into these people and being God moded, again.

Also, I have tried to tell people in tells a couple times, and instead get it thrown right back at me. In fact, a couple days ago, I will admit I finally lost my temper with a new player, in the Dragon channel, because of all the junk that's been going on, and I am deeply sorry for that.

I understand people wil not go to the Dragon channel if it isn't a nice place, but I'm truthfully tired of trying to be a nice mediator and having to repeat myself so many times it makes me wonder if people are really listening, or just want to continuing ruining some people's fun, even if they don't see it as that.

To me, there is really only one rule to multi-person roleplaying. Think about the other people you are roleplaying with, don't force yourself upon them, and understand that there are people at the other side of these characters. And think about what they see, not what you see. You can't control or force yourself on another person or Character. You cannot speak for that character, or do actions for that character, or have the senses of that character. That could be why also, there's been a problem with roleplaying.

Anyway, that's my rant. Sorry if its long and please don't take it the wrong way.

[Raeshlavik]

After a little analysis of this issue, going back over the many threads in the past regarding the same thing, and watching a few new players on Order try to get their feet under them this last week - I think I know what the issue is...

The 'Dragon' channel.

'Dragon' is publicly visible, open to all, and is either the most populated channel or right under 'Marketplace' given the time of day.

Anyone new to the server will see this and choose to join 'Dragon' as 'Marketplace' is pretty clear that it is analogous to the trade channel in any other MMO. Istaria also brings players in with playable Dragons - any new wide-eyed hatchling who divines the complexities of the chat system in the first place will naturally head straight for 'Dragon'.

The problem seems to be that a lot of the established players on Order use 'Dragon' as their own personal meta-world; they know everyone there and what their foibles are, they know what the generally accepted scene is, and they understand the do's and don't's of the 'Dragon Channel' world. 'Dragon' also hosts some very strong personality types who have no issue carving out their niche with either words or deeds... Or high explosives if required.

So, ultimately, what this boils down to is that some of the established folks are trying to RP on what amounts to a busy street corner in the middle of town.

The issues are that random people passing by this street corner might only be looking for directions and not a dissertation of the proper use of parenthesis to denote IC and OOC chat. The person passing through may be a younger person who thinks this RP thing is really cool, but doesn't have a lot of experience and will GodMode or Monty Hall quite a bit - but given time and encouragement might be a huge asset to the town in general.

Essentially, if you're going to roleplay in a public channel you have to approach things as if you were in a LARP situation - the folks around you wont be clued in to what is going on and will look at you funny, and you'll be explaining over and over and over what it is you're doing. Good LARP folks can bring a mundane right into the action and even get them to participate a bit - maybe even get them interested in participating in the next game. (bad LARP folks will get you kicked out of the hotel - but that's a story for another time )

Anyways, long story short, 'Dragon' is the first face someone will meet upon waking up on Order. The choice is; will 'Dragon' be a fun helpful place that gets new folks invested in the server, or will it be the clique-y equivalent of the smokers area behind the gym in high school?

That choice is up to the residents of 'Dragon' - but if you want more players, the choice is an obvious one.

[Raeshlavik]

To me, there is really only one rule to multi-person roleplaying. Think about the other people you are roleplaying with, don't force yourself upon them, and understand that there are people at the other side of these characters. And think about what they see, not what you see. You can't control or force yourself on another person or Character. You cannot speak for that character, or do actions for that character, or have the senses of that character. That could be why also, there's been a problem with roleplaying.

Agreed. The best 'rule of thumb' is to always leave an out.

Bad: Kayden leaps up and playfully bites Nyoko's tail. (Note that there is no option for Nyoko here as the action is already done. The action is playful and doesn't really achieve much, but it is resolved already and can't be worked with.)

Good: Kayden leaps up and attempts to playfully bite Nyoko's tail. (My action is the same, but simply adding 'attempts to' allows Nyoko to change the outcome and/or work with the action such as pulling his/her tail out of the way or simply being nom'd on.)

This is all stuff we old tymers know, but new players might not get yet. I've had a lot of success in the past with a simple explanation like the one above.

[LOVWYRM]

Very wise and mature words, Raeshlavik.
Much appreciated!

[Nyoko]

I will agree and disagree with you. And leave it at that. When I was a new player, I saw the Dragon channel was an rp channel and the new player channel was a place to ask questions. And before I rp'd, I took a couple days to analyse exactly the scene in the DC before actually throwing myself in. But that is just the way I do things.

As for your examples, not quite what I was talking about, though I can see the difference. I have no problem with someone saying they bit Ko's tail (poor Ko, always being picked on.) The thing I was talking about was more like:

*<So and so> walked in and fell into the pond and Nyoko saw this*
See how this definitely left me no room? They are doing actions for my character. How do they know I wanted Ko to see this? Maybe Ko was totally engrossed in something?

[Silverblaze]

I often hear issues about roleplaying on Order. Makes sense, it's the RP server right?

Yes and no...

At a certain point, one has to realize, some people equivilate role playing to "lookatme!" This behavior in my opinion is in poor taste, but thats just me, I'm trying to stay objective here.... This leads to non roleplayers groaning and covering their eyes/ears (or saying something derogatory) and roleplayers thinking and perhaps saying...negative things about said individuals.

It seems there are people who do not tolerate that very much. (No surprise to me They simply want to pick up a new persona, act within the bounds they set and enjoy this time as a new persona. The reasons why they do this are irrelevant.

I simply think the arguement or complaint about others roleplay style or in some cases lack thereof...(not pointing fingers keep in mind)...is pointless.

People will not always agree. Thats why when refferencing LARP and TT gaming. (Live Action Role Playing - Table Top) people have core groups, almost like cliques. Within these groups people are close knit enough to have a similar outlook on their gaming, roleplaying etc. When an outsider shows up, they are often ostracised....

may need to be highlighted to read...skip to the word "which" for a coherent post please.

-insert treatise here: often times after a trial basis people accept small differences in style or the group/new person adapts as needed. On the internet without face to face contact, there is no incentive to change whatsoever...which of course leads to problems...

moving along...


which leads to all sorts of bad feelings, and the negative connotation associated with role players of all kinds by non roleplayers. SImply put it is brought on by actions from within.

Where i am going with this is simple...those groups kept to a managable number of like minded individuals...work fine because they are small (small ish) and the people they do not like or agree with or what have you are not there to cause problems. When playing on a macro level (MMO) it is much harder to pick and choose, so to speak.

There are few solutions to this issue, none of which are good, hence the arguement/complaint being pointless, there is no reason to worry about what is beyond your control. A valid concern, yes, but nothing to worry about.


---To address the problem of a lack of number of players or silence... one has to go where people are to meet and interact, that may mean playing on a different shard for a time.

In regards of a lack of thigns to do....this game will almost never have that problem. I've been playing since it began. I play in spurts of very tenacious time consuming gameplay 2where I accomplish much and then hit spurts of leisure play where I do little, I assume it evens out to a moderate amount of playing. I still have muc hto do on several characters. One must set goals and wish to accomplish things to enjoy their time. If you truly cannot find somethign to do. I do not know what to say.

[Dragonboy]

Apparently the main problem that we are dealing with here is that people want to role play, but they cannot tolerate people role playing differently then they do. Namely the “RP-police” whom I don’t know and frankly don’t want to know.

After reading various posts about the alleged role playing problems on Order I have to say that the hardcore players are going to have to be more tolerant with the newbies, also BOTH the oldies and the newbies are going to have to respect each other and together work towards a NEW and improvised unspoken and unofficial system of role playing rules.

If neither the oldies or newbies are interested in doing this I personally would vote to make Order like Chaos a non role play server with 1 Roleplay channel on both servers for those that wish to role play (far away from both the marketplace, dragon and new player assistance channels).

I really want to say that I think role playing can be cool (not that I do it often, but that beside the point), but when new players who are starting their trail account on Order find the need to leave Order and go to Chaos after a few days into their trail the older players on Order are going to have to take a real good look at them selves about the way they are treating the new role players.

Not to mention all this eternal whining on the forums about "role playing this is not good, role playing this is even worse". Maybe you have forgotten this, but potential players read forums as well. Think about that for a change or is the secret that you don’t want new players?

I am really sorry if I offended anyone by this post but saying we need new players and at the same time driving them away seem really freaking stupid and this must end.

[LungTien Temeraire]

Apparently the main problem that we are dealing with here is that people want to role play, but they cannot tolerate people role playing differently then they do. Namely the “RP-police� whom I don’t know and frankly don’t want to know.

Nor do I.

After reading various posts about the alleged role playing problems on Order I have to say that the hardcore players are going to have to be more tolerant with the newbies, also BOTH the oldies and the newbies are going to have to respect each other and together work towards a NEW and improvised unspoken and unofficial system of role playing rules.

Personally, I am just telling to the new roleplayers how the olders are roleplaying and not how the new ones must roleplay

If neither the oldies or newbies are interested in doing this I personally would vote to make Order like Chaos a non role play server with 1 Roleplay channel on both servers for those that wish to role play (far away from both the marketplace, dragon and new player assistance channels).

The Dragon chanel on Order is, I think, the main RP channel, but the OoC discussions, there, are certainly not forbidden. The channel is not only the RP clearing, and a player can stay out of the RP as he comes on the channel

I really want to say that I think role playing can be cool (not that I do it often, but that beside the point), but when new players who are starting their trail account on Order find the need to leave Order and go to Chaos after a few days into their trail the older players on Order are going to have to take a real good look at them selves about the way they are treating the new role players.

I haven't seen any mistreated new player on the Dragon channel.

Not to mention all this eternal whining on the forums about "role playing this is not good, role playing this is even worse". Maybe you have forgotten this, but potential players read forums as well. Think about that for a change or is the secret that you don’t want new players?

I don't think that.

I am really sorry if I offended anyone by this post but saying we need new players and at the same time driving them away seem really freaking stupid and this must end.

I don't know who is driving new players away but I agree.

[Xepher]

The issues are that random people passing by this street corner might only be looking for directions and not a dissertation of the proper use of parenthesis to denote IC and OOC chat. The person passing through may be a younger person who thinks this RP thing is really cool, but doesn't have a lot of experience and will GodMode or Monty Hall quite a bit - but given time and encouragement might be a huge asset to the town in general.

Nobody has a problem with this, Raeshlavik. What we have a problem with is people who come in, do all this, and then continue to do so even after we have told them how things generally go in here, and that god-moding is not appreciated and brackets make things smoother and simpler. We were all n00bs at one point in the game, so this is understandable, but if somebody is nice enough to point you in the right direction, why not FOLLOW it instead of continuing to make grief for everybody else? If a random person in a street corner came up and started acting like a know-it-all, stubborn, immature child who keeps breaking the 'rules' even though they're aware of them, would that person not be grabbed and carted off to the nearest brig?

Just recently there was a new player in Dragon whom I politely spoke to about the use of brackets for OOC talk. Rather than acknowledge it and just do this simple task for the sake of keeping the peace, he ruffled his feathers, barked about being a physicist and he is the most logical, or some other ridiculous rant similar. His argument was because he was so logical and smart that he thought the brackets were too much extra work and that we should all change how we denote our IC and OOC talk (Which, by the way, 'denote' means to represent by a symbol... basically exactly what we were doing with brackets. Yeah, you're real smart buddy)and do things his way, even though -we- were here long before him and know the way things roll in the game better than he does. In the end, he decided to be immature and simply end his argument with "Well I'm not going to do it" and that was that. So you see, most of the time it isn't at all a case of the Elder and older players being rude or cruel or otherwise unhelpful to the newbies... its us losing our patience with constantly having new players come in who act up and won't take some damned advice. This 'town' really doesn't need any crazy drunks hanging about causing grief.

I am really sorry if I offended anyone by this post but saying we need new players and at the same time driving them away seem really freaking stupid and this must end.

No offense taken on my end. While we do want new players, there is definitely a 'quality over quantity' need on Order, for the most part. Its not entirely true, but we do tend to get a lot of people like I stated above, and otherwise those who refuse to improve. We could get an influx of 50 new players on Order but, if they are unwilling to cooperate with VERY simple RP standards and behavior... its just going to be more stressful than fun. Like a group of adults having to hang out in a kiddy park when it used to be a lovely bar/lounge.

By the way, Dragonboy, LungTien... you already know one of them The term "RP Police", I believe, started from a joke I made a year ago, and still bring up every once in a while when feeling playful and silly. The term as it is being used now, however, has greatly strayed off the path of what it was meant to be, as so many people now use and gauge it differently, and its really not meant to be so grandiose of a deal at -ALL-. I won't bother to explain here or now, but try to imagine how much of a disaster the RP community on Order might be if NOBODY said anything. Either way, people complain about the "RP Police" to no end, and yet... I've gotten multiple /Tells from people saying "Hey Xeffer, there's this new player and..." etc, basically reporting a disobedient and rude new player, and otherwise a lot of people who decide to choose me as a pair of ears to rant to when they've had a bad encounter with such a player. Seems such services aren't actually hated -that- much, eh?

[velveeta]

No offense taken on my end. While we do want new players, there is definitely a 'quality over quantity' need on Order, for the most part. Its not entirely true, but we do tend to get a lot of people like I stated above, and otherwise those who refuse to improve. We could get an influx of 50 new players on Order but, if they are unwilling to cooperate with VERY simple RP standards and behavior... its just going to be more stressful than fun. Like a group of adults having to hang out in a kiddy park when it used to be a lovely bar/lounge.


we don't even roleplay on blight and i get this......no offense to anyone, but we have a long history of casual visitors (curse maintain days.....) who feel that blight should change to fit them for the few hours they deign to grace us with their august presence.

fortunately, for our own sanity, we haven't seen many of those peeps for about or at least a year or so now.

i think peeps should be willing to at least try to fit into the existing population when they go to other shards.....i admit, i got a little chatty in the marketplace on order yesterday with my new alt, but i know several of the peeps there and there was no rp going on......
i certainly would never insert myself into ongoing rp without the knowledge and permission of the peeps there, and certainly would not include someone else so definately into a 'ninja' situation.....UNLESS i know the other person involved and was at least pretty sure they wouldn't mind (for instance, i might jump on luv's tail on order, cause i am reasonably sure she would just turn around and bite my measly alts in two.... ).

so forgive me in advance, orderites, for any offense and please feel more than free to let me know when i cross any lines (which will happen! )...i will try to stay off the rp channels!

[Silverblaze]

Apparently the main problem that we are dealing with here is that people want to role play, but they cannot tolerate people role playing differently then they do. Namely the “RP-police� whom I don’t know and frankly don’t want to know.

After reading various posts about the alleged role playing problems on Order I have to say that the hardcore players are going to have to be more tolerant with the newbies, also BOTH the oldies and the newbies are going to have to respect each other and together work towards a NEW and improvised unspoken and unofficial system of role playing rules.

If neither the oldies or newbies are interested in doing this I personally would vote to make Order like Chaos a non role play server with 1 Roleplay channel on both servers for those that wish to role play (far away from both the marketplace, dragon and new player assistance channels).

I really want to say that I think role playing can be cool (not that I do it often, but that beside the point), but when new players who are starting their trail account on Order find the need to leave Order and go to Chaos after a few days into their trail the older players on Order are going to have to take a real good look at them selves about the way they are treating the new role players.

Not to mention all this eternal whining on the forums about "role playing this is not good, role playing this is even worse". Maybe you have forgotten this, but potential players read forums as well. Think about that for a change or is the secret that you don’t want new players?

I am really sorry if I offended anyone by this post but saying we need new players and at the same time driving them away seem really freaking stupid and this must end.

This goes along with some of what I was saying. Well said.

I can say I rarely play on Order due to hearing too mcuh badness. I rather enjoy role playing here and there, truly I do. However, if I don't want to put up with the problems I keep hearing about, I can't imagine many new people, would for long.

I have to maintain that taking things in stride when playing a game is likely a good idea too. People aren't always going to agree, that in my opinion makles things interesting. Why people get upset about it or as you said drive away/pick on folks who they don't agree with (while human nature and common among small insular roleplaying groups) is some what confusing in a game that could use all the players it can get.

Hence, "No where to go, nothing to do, no one to see".

It has been stated time and again that quality is preffered to quantity... while in some cases I agree. I don't think beggars can be choosers. (now I don't refer to any financial state of anyone, whatsoever, keep that in mind) I refer to the concept of people wanting more people to interact with, yet being picky about who they interact with.

It is balancing act, that seems to see more of the choosy side than that accepting side. Note I said SEEMS. I'm not often around to see new players driven off on any shard, but I can imagine how it may occur.

I'm with Dragonboy, whilst i may not like people, I think we need more blood and new blood. Use /ignore if they grate upon you(in general) so.

[LOVWYRM]

Velveeta- you can jump on my tail or paws - and I will give you a hug in return

Market place is without, uhhm let me say (oh I`m a good educated dragon)
extensive rp.

And there are a lot of chat channels where you can play and chat with people the way you are. Without rules and formalities.
I shall invite you there next time

[Raeshlavik]

Yesterday I transfered one of my Dragons back to Chaos, just to see how things are doing over there (and it was an excuse to give Vi $25 for xmas ) and wound up having several role-based encounters, which were sort of shocking for me as I certainly wasn't expecting it.

Even a few generic player encounters were "RP-ish" - One example was when I asked in Dragon if anyone had an obsidian power or strength chest scale I could buy; the Dragon that took the time to help me out met me in Dralk, roared a greeting to me when I showed up, was very well spoken and was certainly "in character", then sent me on my way with a hearty "Have fun little one." ... I actually felt bad because here I am on the 'general' server, not expecting anything more than a "hey dude", and rather than playing up the encounter I simply asked "How much do I owe ya?" - like some common rube.

Once I got over my shock I did dance around a little bit and explained my plans for rending the werewolf "Storm's Shadow" limb from limb now that I had scales of such exquisite make.

So, the moral of the story is; don't think that Chaos is anti-RP or something just because Order is the designated RP server. If Order is bringing you down with nothing to do, nowhere to go, and no one to see - you might want to take a short vacation on Chaos - if only for the different placement of, well, everything and some different folks to talk to. (and check out Crimson Dawn's guild town - that's neat!)