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Thread: Blight Delta 177-discussion

  1. #1

    Default Blight Delta 177-discussion

    What is it?
    The carrot and the stick?

    I do not understand the policy behind some changes.

    A patch in advance/ realtime with fixes of bugged quests,spells, techs/ items
    would have been appreciated more than a nerf of cot / cleanse.
    YOU told me to play a dragon!

  2. #2

    Default Re: Blight Delta 177-discussion

    "Dragon Hoard items now have coin values."


    Ouch. This is going to adversely affect the ability of hatchlings to acquire the hoard needed for RoP, I fear...

  3. #3

    Default Re: Blight Delta 177-discussion

    "Dragon Hoard items now have coin values."
    a totally rediculous change, this is going to grief hatchlings....

    whats the point of making such a change?
    Chromos - 100 Ancient Lunus, 100 DragonCrafter,100 Lairshaper
    Titles - Expert DragonCrafter - Expert Lairshaper

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Blight Delta 177-discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by aine View Post
    "Dragon Hoard items now have coin values."


    Ouch. This is going to adversely affect the ability of hatchlings to acquire the hoard needed for RoP, I fear...
    Quote Originally Posted by Cromos_Swordbreaker View Post
    a totally rediculous change, this is going to grief hatchlings....

    whats the point of making such a change?
    What for Istaria's sake are you two talking about? Hoard item drops are high enough for a hatchling who actually fights mobs instead of focussing way to much on trophies to reach the requirement. My hatchling Gallinthus came from Skalkaar with lvl 8 and 45k hoard only from killing the constantly agro after re-spawning lvl 4 skalkaar tiny grass beetles. Not to mention that bipeds have absolutely no use for it except for charity.

    I recently tried to offer many hoard items for free with my low level biped to a passing hatchling and it was refused so not all hatchlings are even interested.

    Another remark about the Delta 177.
    I never knew Snarl or Menacing Presence did crush damage, let alone require a damage type change. I like it nonetheless.
    Rvlion- LvL 100:100:100 - 59.3M - Lunus Ancient
    Gallinthus- LvL 100:42:41 - 6.9M - Hatchling
    Lohasbrand– LvL 4:3:0 – 1.0M - Hatchling
    Sslion- LvL 25 Mage, 25 Warrior, 10 Cleric, 6 Druid, 6 Monk and a few Craft Schools

  5. #5

    Default Re: Blight Delta 177-discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonboy View Post
    What for Istaria's sake are you two talking about? Hoard item drops are high enough for a hatchling who actually fights mobs instead of focussing way to much on trophies to reach the requirement. My hatchling Gallinthus came from Skalkaar with lvl 8 and 45k hoard only from killing the constantly agro after re-spawning lvl 4 skalkaar tiny grass beetles. Not to mention that bipeds have absolutely no use for it except for charity.
    1) Some hatchlings do very little hunting, preferring to focus on crafting. Since I believe hoard levels affect skills, they need hoard readily available from other sources.
    2) Giving hoard a coin value means bipeds can pawn hoard items for coin instead of consigning them or just giving them away. They suddenly do have a use for it besides charity.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Blight Delta 177-discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by awdz View Post
    1) Some hatchlings do very little hunting, preferring to focus on crafting. Since I believe hoard levels affect skills, they need hoard readily available from other sources.
    2) Giving hoard a coin value means bipeds can pawn hoard items for coin instead of consigning them or just giving them away. They suddenly do have a use for it besides charity.
    1. Everything that a hatchling crafts can be hoarded, while this is extremely rediculously low it is possible. Anyway the discussion was not about focussing on crafting, but reaching the RoP requirement of min. lvl 30 adventure.
    Which will require fighting various hoard dropping mobs unless a player wants to let himself get powerleveled by trophies provided by another player. In case of the last choice the provider can also provide 250k hoard.
    2. While I am a dragon and love my hoard I can also understand things from a biped point of view that from a non role play point of view you dont always want to carry a large amount of junk in the hopes that a hatchling might actually be interested.

    It is a matter of choice... A biped should always have a choice to give the hoard away, sell it on consigner OR sell it at the pawnbroker like every other item we dont want to sell on consigner. A lot of times I hear saying that bipeds delete hoarditems... Which is also their choice since they looted it. Atleast selling it to a pawnbroker would make it more usefell to bipeds.
    Rvlion- LvL 100:100:100 - 59.3M - Lunus Ancient
    Gallinthus- LvL 100:42:41 - 6.9M - Hatchling
    Lohasbrand– LvL 4:3:0 – 1.0M - Hatchling
    Sslion- LvL 25 Mage, 25 Warrior, 10 Cleric, 6 Druid, 6 Monk and a few Craft Schools

  7. #7

    Default Re: Blight Delta 177-discussion

    Greetings

    So, why not make the dragons able to craft crystals?
    That may be enhance the economy and give a possible equation to being dependend on the bipeds.
    Is it a difference that the hoarditems now have a coin value on them?
    Wasnt it possible to pawn them without a coin value?

    I dont like them to be pawned, because this negates their real value and sole reason.

    At the current state, what craft (crafted by dragon) items are of importance for a biped. The other way round there are some.
    Thats why I revive that old suggestion of dragon crystalworking, so the dragons could even this a bit.

    And about the changes in the OP, I would appreciate a detailed explanation as I dont yet understand the changes.

    Xz

  8. #8

    Default Re: Blight Delta 177-discussion

    Let's not count chickens.... some things look like nerfs on paper, but in game, it may have a different effect.
    Remember when Gold Rage was changed and the howls of "nerf!" only to realize that it made the ability recycle faster?

    As far as the 'it'll be difficult to get to 250k' goes, it has been mentioned there are other ways to get hoard besides charity. Hopefully there will be some bipeds that will still stock the cosigner.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Blight Delta 177-discussion

    While such things as the ones named before in this thread I see still as minor change, IF I compare them to some others...

    How about that they lower the dragons evasion from - 8- a level to - 6 - a level??

    That is -200 evasion for a L 100 dragon!

    Im pretty sure the dodge ability cant compensate that especially if its like the ones the bipeds have!
    Dakoren Ironhand - Multiclassed Half-Giant
    Krondel Bloodclaw - Ancient Dragon

  10. #10

    Default Re: Blight Delta 177-discussion

    The hoardable change is probably to lower DB utilization. On Chaos, if you look on the NT conny, there are literally hundreds of 'antique daggers' and 'ornamental spears' - each taking up precious DB resources until they time out and end up back in someones vault, where they take up precious DB resources.

    As for the functionality of this change, I seriously doubt your average hatchling will see much difference. The three Dragons I've run through 30+ in the last couple months were all well into the 250k hoard range as a byproduct of simply getting to 30.

    If the hoardables drop rate is lowered in accordance with hoardables now having coin value, it will merely mean we might have to go back to the old ways; pre-RoP crafting parties for a day or spend a day as a guild hunting Aegis and/or beetles with the 30+ hatchling(s) - it's not a big deal really and gives us things to do as a group.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Blight Delta 177-discussion

    I don't see the point of making CoT less friendly to use. I don't see why that or making Cleanse less effective will enhance the game in any way. Making things less don't make this game better.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Blight Delta 177-discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Dakoren Ironhand View Post
    While such things as the ones named before in this thread I see still as minor change, IF I compare them to some others...

    How about that they lower the dragons evasion from - 8- a level to - 6 - a level??

    That is -200 evasion for a L 100 dragon!

    Im pretty sure the dodge ability cant compensate that especially if its like the ones the bipeds have!
    As you're an ancient and have much more experience than I, can a Dragon actually dodge? I ask because I've never seen it.

    I just assume I'm going to get hit - I'm the size of a house. I'd guess that in melee it borders on impossible to miss me actually.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Blight Delta 177-discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonboy View Post
    It is a matter of choice... A biped should always have a choice to give the hoard away, sell it on consigner OR sell it at the pawnbroker like every other item we dont want to sell on consigner. A lot of times I hear saying that bipeds delete hoarditems... Which is also their choice since they looted it. Atleast selling it to a pawnbroker would make it more usefell to bipeds.
    Why don't they want to put it on the consigners?
    "Ohoh...someone is actually trying to sell something, I see an attunement coming. LOL" - Teto Frum


  14. #14

    Default Re: Blight Delta 177-discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by LOVWYRM View Post
    What is it?
    The carrot and the stick?

    I do not understand the policy behind some changes.

    A patch in advance/ realtime with fixes of bugged quests,spells, techs/ items
    would have been appreciated more than a nerf of cot / cleanse.
    You mean all of those tons and tons of fixes that are in there? Go look, there are lots of em.

    Cleanse wasn't altered at all. Stun was altered so that it can't be cleansed. Mezzes and Roots, however, can still be cleansed.

    CoT was linked because it was supposed to have been linked, like other spells, in the first place. And because it encourages players to do something other than spam CoT on everyone.

    Dragon hoard items were given coin value because quite honestly when new players enter the game and loot hoard items but can't do anything with them they are confused or see it as broken. And bugs early in the game can contribute to players leaving. Now, they can sell them to the pawnbroker.

    Combined with the change of new schools getting better training gear these changes should help out the newbie game and make them more survivable (which was one of the complaints we had seen). More players is good, right?
    "Alea iacta est" -- Julius Caesar

    Toot shouted, voice shrill, "In the name of the Pizza Lord! Charge!" (Jim Butcher's Dresden Files)

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will spends it whole life believing that it is stupid." -- Albert Einstein

  15. #15

    Default Re: Blight Delta 177-discussion

    Answering as a low-level newbie biped...
    Quote Originally Posted by Xoshara View Post
    Why don't they want to put it on the consigners?
    Because the consigners are already heavily loaded with low level hoard items and/or they've hit their 5/50/150 conny item limit. Both of which have prevented me from putting hoard items up for sale.
    Last edited by Tysharina; January 19th, 2010 at 02:02 PM.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Blight Delta 177-discussion

    Hmm, my thoughts:

    Dragon Hoardables: I'm sure that very few people worry about whether or not you donate t1-t3 hoardables really. They give such low hoard, that any T5 biped wanting to give to Charity, could go out and kill some T5 monsters and get thousands of hoard value in a few minutes.

    I'm sure that the coin value on T4-T5 hoard items will be too low to consider pawning them unless the market is really slow. Why PB a T5 hoardable for, say, 1s-2s when you could get 10+ out of it at the consigner? I think people will still consign T4-T5.

    Otherwise, if the vendor price is too high, then lots of people will get rich quick. However, newbie bipeds now have a way of making money early-level, especially with all of the formulas costing coin. Ridiculous amounts of coin.

    Where does a lowbie biped get coin? They have to go out and kill junk. A lot of junk, to get that kind of coin. It takes what, at least 50 silver to obtain a full set of Beginner Outfitter recipes alone? Where the heck is a <Lv40 biped supposed to get 50 silver? My biped at Lv36 can adventure for 2-3 hours and maybe get 10-15 silver, tops.

    Allowing them to vendor hoard items is actually a good idea. Just make sure that the coin value on T4-T5 is lower than the usual consign rates on such items and we'll be fine.

    I can't really comment on CoT/Cleanse, as I don't have a character high enough to have seen such things, but the changes to Snarl/Menacing Presence/Mighty Roar/etc sound cool, once they work out the bugs. Gives me more abilities to use in combat.

    The only thing I will comment, is where it says that Menacing Presence uses the "Wing Buffet" animation... is that a good thing? The #1 complaint behind Galewind (I assume uses the same animation) is that the animation takes too long, taking at least the time of 2 auto-attacks, where your dragon stands there and can't do anything else.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Blight Delta 177-discussion

    CoT got various tiers by design unless the game programed itself. One of the purpose was so we can buff others - I don't see what's wrong that. Did folks complain about this or something? Also having coT removed by certain damage threshold means we have to rebuff which I'm not sure how it enhances gameplay (like having to equipt the boarmask to use it, then re-equipt in mid-fight - annoying).

    I like buffing noobs with coT, and they appreciate it very much.

    And somehow here's a feeling stun mobs a coming on the cheap..

  18. #18

    Default Re: Blight Delta 177-discussion

    Re: cleanse and stuns.

    IMO stuns are the only "mez" type that cleanse benefits the most. Mezzes and roots break upon damage. Stun doesn't.
    Quote Originally Posted by Random Poster
    I'm gonna post in this one too!

  19. #19

    Default Re: Blight Delta 177-discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Creme View Post
    Re: cleanse and stuns.

    IMO stuns are the only "mez" type that cleanse benefits the most. Mezzes and roots break upon damage. Stun doesn't.
    Stun is also the one that makes the least sense for a spell to be able to remove. Hence the change.
    "Alea iacta est" -- Julius Caesar

    Toot shouted, voice shrill, "In the name of the Pizza Lord! Charge!" (Jim Butcher's Dresden Files)

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will spends it whole life believing that it is stupid." -- Albert Einstein

  20. #20

    Default Re: Blight Delta 177-discussion

    While I don't understand the reason why stun should not be cleanse-able (I get those freezing effect things all mixed up), it just sounds like stun has been made a lot more powerful. Flip it to where we use it on Withered Aegis - they can't remove it from one another now either, right? So which classes benefit - wizard has a stunner ability, does this mean when they use it the opponents stay stunned? What other classes/abilities/spells can stun and thus may be more useful now?

    I want to be very clear on cloak of thorns - I don't mind a linked timer, but I do expect to be able to cast it on anyone I target if the timer for it has recovered. I have long been irked by my overfull spellbook, but it is worth it to me to keep the lower tier buffs scribed and thus available for "younger" characters. Please do not take away my ability to help those less capable than me with it if I choose to.

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