Rite of Passage level cap

[Sunuke]

I have been noticing that the majority of hatchlings that start Rite of Passage (RoP) are so inexperianced that they have no chance of making it unless the community walk them through step by step.

The hatchlings that make an effort in learning to play their character generally start RoP at a later point and you also see them stay and grow to a level 100 dragon.

Sofar it seems there are only a few Helians around.

Personally I think this might have to do with the level required to create the needed items.

I think it might be better to have the hatchling create all items so they need to have a specific skill but also make the hatchling scales as a requirementand all ability quests up to that level.

This way the hatchling will be more capable to go through RoP.

It should still be possible to start RoP at current levels but finishing would require a more experianced player.

[Tcei]

I disagree very very strongly about adding the hatchling scale quest as requirements to RoP.

As far as "experienced player" If someone hasnt learned to play their dragon by the time they're 30, chances are getting to lvl 50 isnt going to make that much of a difference. The play style doesnt change all that much over those levels as you dont get any new abilities during that time. Least to my knowlege. As far as knowing your way around the game; many of the areas that RoP leads you to are lvl 70-100+ areas more than likely a hatchling will never have been there reguardless of wether they're 30 or 50. I've seen pleanty of hatchlings in a wide variety of lvls ask for directions/help thru these areas. Playing longer does not always equal knowing where everything is.

Really the only advantage of waiting till later is that you can hit a few of the trash mobs a few more times before dieing, unless you wait till you are 90 or so, in which case you can solo all or most of the RoP.
As for the scale, its nice I agree; but its not the be all end all of scales that some folks like to make it out to be. Really I'd only even consider getting it because its a cake walk compared to getting comps for a normal lvl 50 scale. If we do add it the RoP, the difficulty in obtianing it needs to be upped considerably.

As for the feeling of those who fly early, leave early, Lantua was lvl 31 when he ascended, and Im still here playing nearly 4 years later. Infact I've observed over the years that players on both sides of the divide leave in roughly equal numbers. Many of them from boredom.

Quite frankly Im happy with the way RoP is now.

Sorry for the slight rantishness of this post. This is a touchy subject for me due to harassment I recieved ages ago. I really should learn to just ignore these types of things >.>

[Uhlakk]

Not sure I understand you right, but..... could it be you want the hatchi do all his stuff alone?

In my opinion it supports the teamplay and solidifys the community. If all hatchis do their RoP alone, where will be good RP than?

I enjoyed beginning my RoP with lvl 30 and pass every step as far as I could. For the hard stuff I had to do some good RP to get help. I guess everybody enjoyed it.
I waited to ascent till I had my lvl 50 Lunus hatchling scale, but it was a part of my RP.

And yes, most hatchis who want to fly very early take the path of the LUNUS, because minimum requirements start by lvl 30.
Helians need a higher Craftlvl as Lunus, if I remember it right.

Maybe that's the reason. But, finaly all have their own choice.

[Sunuke]

The idea wasn't to make those scales part of RoP but a requirement just like having all adventure and craft quests finished.

It's true that the hatchies won't know where to find specific monsters nor can kill them but this is where the teamplay comes in.

When it comes to making your items yourself like the statue and mirror.

In my opinion this should be something the hatchling should do without receiving bonus from machines.

Why you might ask.

So they put in more effort to get to this point.

Would it still be possible to power level a hatchling through RoP?

Of course, it would just be some what more difficult.

RoP needs to be one of the hardest quests in game. Just like ARoP.

I'm glad you remained in game after ascending at level 31.

[Dragonboy]

There is a saying that good people shall always suffer due to the bad people.

The good people are those that actually try to do things for themselves, make sure they have all the requirements or only ask for assistance at certain fights.

The bad people are those that don't want to do anything for themselves, want to be guided from location to locations every single minute of them being online, ask in one channel for help and getting verbal assistance while in another channel saying that nobody is willing to help them.

It really reminds me of a comic from Control-Alt-Delete (20070205) called Real Life. (got a link but not sure if it is allowed to be posted in this part of the forum)

I was online yesterday evening (for me in Europe that is) when a specific player was asking in 4 different channels that I know of (Crimson Dawn, Dragon, New Player Assistance and Marketplace) about people doing all sorts of stuff for him/her among which was crafting a mirror for RoP. While I had little personal dealings with that person I do tend to count him/her to the second catagory after what I have seen over a longer period of time.

While I personally would prefere the requirements raised to perhaps 50/50 and maybe some lairshaping as well (to allow attunement of Draak to be finished), but I also know that this would only hurt the people who may be low, but at least try to do something for themselves.

It is just a sad but true fact that whatever you do to change any quest there will always be people that prefer other people do it for them eventhough it is barely 5 seconds work and for the other maybe 10 minutes (for example no exact numbers, but could be near the mark with school changing, equipment changing, porting durations).

[Shian]

If you did have the hatchling create everything... you would need to be level 70 craft to craft the obsidian bricks.

That's insane. Some people do not like crafting and have a difficult enough time as it is getting to 30, especially when one is most of the time doing it alone. When was the last time you heard someone casually offer their help getting a few levels in crafting to someone they do not RP with?

Yes, when they do the ROP at 30 they are very inexperienced, but so what? They are playing the game and that is what is important. I'm in a guild where nearly all of us ascended at 30 and while as individuals, the inexperience shows, it gives us a nice excuse to support each other as we grow.

The question asked out of the shell is 'when do I get to be an adult'? If that answer was 50/70, it would seem so far off that it may be seen as a waste of time. You get a whole 20ish levels before you do your Ancient ROP...

Yes, there are these 'bad seeds' that demand help at every step, but most of the time it is simply because they do not know any better or don't have any support like a guild or an IG family to guide them. Raising the level cap will not change these types of players, it only delays the inevitable.

[Drakarr]

Raise the caps? No, but I think that having as a req all the adv and craft quests done to the current lvl reqs would be a good thing. that would be the lvl 30 adv and lvl 20 craft quests. Not so much to ask but in general it would get them a little more knowledgeable on how to play their dragon.

So far in the last 2 weeks I've come across 3 hatchies that I've talked to who had only done the Gerix line....nothing else, not even the craft. They hadn't even finished the Gerix quest cause they were "too hard" Come to find out one still had their Skalkaar scale on and hadn't even finished the NT quests either...

[neva]

I have to disagree with this myself. Ulharisk did his RoP at lvl 30 with the craft around 20-25. I am also a very good player for someone with only the experience up to that point and I learned very quickly how to avoid, move when needed to move, and actually know what I can handle and can't handle very early on in the game.

I actually learned more from the RoP, because the community made sure I know the way from point a to point b and that I could run the entire stretch without being caught. I had to do this 3 times back to back without being caught. It took me two tries, but on the third I got it.

If there is players who are inexperienced by the time they hit RoP and do RoP, it isn't because they are inexperienced, it is because the community allows them to be and doesn't force that player to have to do some research, do some skilled running, and learn.

No, I think RoP should remain the way it is and let the player, along with the community, decide if they are really ready for what awaits them around the bend.

[Frith-Rae]

Raise the caps? No, but I think that having as a req all the adv and craft quests done to the current lvl reqs would be a good thing. that would be the lvl 30 adv and lvl 20 craft quests. Not so much to ask but in general it would get them a little more knowledgeable on how to play their dragon.

So far in the last 2 weeks I've come across 3 hatchies that I've talked to who had only done the Gerix line....nothing else, not even the craft. They hadn't even finished the Gerix quest cause they were "too hard" Come to find out one still had their Skalkaar scale on and hadn't even finished the NT quests either...

This! I'm one of the "old timers" who back in the day waited for the ROP to even be put out - then I got my butt to 30/35 (craft lunus) - and my entire guild helped me through the rest of it. And yes, I've been here since a month after launch.

Actually, the guild helped me level my craft to. Back in-da-day you had crafting parties - where groups of dragons and bipeds could get to together and power-level each other in crafting...*chuckles*.

In Any case - I'm ok with it staying 30 adv. adn I'm ok with that meaning that if you choose to Ascend at 30 (as I did), then you better understand you're going to need help - and not just one or two dragons either.

Now I am for hatchies not needing a biped-crafted item as well - or being able to make it themselves. I've never liked the idea that either of the dragon Rites required a biped crafted item.

I do also agree that requiring at least some of the dragon-quests to that point would be acceptable. As quoted above, wether through player ignorance or just not reading or misguiding by the game (I've not played a hatchling since Frith ascended I have no idea how detailed the guidance is on dragon quests), players are not getting the fact that their dragon abilities are tied to the dragon quests gotten at each of the dragon cities every 10 levels. Requiring that at least Tier II in Adventure/Craft is done would assure that someone WOULD inform them when they asked about Rites.


But the biggest issue in determining wether someone stays after ascending isn't the level they ascend at but wether they've established any relationships in game to that point - and wether they feel the game is interesting enough to stay now that they can fly. If they haven't bothered by 30, they ain't gonna bother by 50. If they're only staying in game to see if its "worth playing" after they fly, that doesn't change at 50 anymore than it would change at 30. They've just spent 20 more levels frustratedly running around instead of flying, 20 MORE levels being under-developed (as hatchlings were designed). Now that's fine if they choose to do so, but I don't feel a need to require it.

As for those 100/100 hatchlings - well they're just crazy. Everyone knows that .

[Tcei]

But the biggest issue in determining wether someone stays after ascending isn't the level they ascend at but wether they've established any relationships in game to that point - and wether they feel the game is interesting enough to stay now that they can fly. If they haven't bothered by 30, they ain't gonna bother by 50. If they're only staying in game to see if its "worth playing" after they fly, that doesn't change at 50 anymore than it would change at 30. They've just spent 20 more levels frustratedly running around instead of flying, 20 MORE levels being under-developed (as hatchlings were designed). Now that's fine if they choose to do so, but I don't feel a need to require it.

As for those 100/100 hatchlings - well they're just crazy. Everyone knows that .

This is what I've been trying to say for ages now.. I just never could word it right. Forcing players to wait until this player created ideal of 50/50 isnt going to suddenly improve the quality of the players no more than its going ot keep more players in game.
Being there for the new players (mind you that doesn't necessarily mean holding their hand) to help/guide/ or just be friends with will improve the quality and longevity of the player. Had it not been for Frith, Deth, Saphire, and many many others during those early days I'd likely not even stayed around to even start RoP.

[Kesqui]

I'm a returning player - someone who remembers hoard leak (and loot drops for hoard? You've got to be joking!) and who waited months for the RoP to exist, let alone be able to play it. And yes, when the requirements came out, my partners were *very* disappointed that their adventuring-only dragons would have to do twenty levels of pointless-to-them crafting grind... and I was horrified that my *crafting* dragon would have to do 30 levels of adventure grind (oh, yeah, and 250K hoard..... I ate SO many iron hammers). Up to that point it had been looking like there would be a play-time requirement and not necessarily a level-based one.

I sure wouldn't want the level requirements to be *raised* although I certainly do agree that doing the ability quests is a beneficial thing.

I left not all that long after Kesqui ascended for financial reasons, not boredom or disappointment after gaining flight. She was a level 32ADV/42CRA dragon when I asked to have her restored (without much hope, since she'd never *been* on Unity) and she popped into my login box.

Now, what I would like to see is things like *reasonable* crafting things need to be done by the player (i.e. if the minimum requirement is level 20 for crafting, the player has to do the Tier II crafting themselves - not that they have to be able to do tier IV crafting!) - and maybe the required collected drops from mobs being a "you have to kill the mobs and loot the drops yourself" thing. But that's probably a bit of irritation from an event over the weekend where someone *demanded* that my hatchling player (Yeah, I want to do RoP AGAIN!) should give him the silver golem fragments from her kills ... simply because she hasn't started the quest yet, and he had. Unfortunately, it's soured Kas' opinion of other hatchlings in an RP sense... unless they're extremely polite!

My problem with hatchlings these days is the lack of patience - and the lack of desire to do things for themselves, even if that means it takes longer. Becoming an adult is about finding your feet in the world so that you appreciate having your wings

[Fyrethorne]

I too find this a touchy subject.

The majority of RoP tasks are lvl 50+ quests. If you embark on those quests at lvl 30, with the help of other high level players, you are essentially being power leveled. You cannot hit the mobs, you cannot do the crafting, you are in effect a bystander at your own RoP. I see level 33 'adults' and I think to myself "Hmmm. I wonder who did your RoP for you", because it is obvious you didn't do it yourself. If you approve of power leveling, and like others doing the work for you, I can see why this would appeal.

At lvl 50, you still cannot complete the RoP solo, however, you can contribute. You can hit the mobs, you can do all your own crafting with the right set of craft scales (I know this as I am Helian, and did all my own crafting for my RoP at lvl 50-55). It still requires a team effort from your guild and friends, but the difference is, you are a part of the team, not a bystander while someone does the work for you.

I understand that everyone has their own opinion, and wants to play the game their way, that is their right. My opinion is if you want to do your own RoP, wait till lvl 50. If you want to have others do it for you, go ahead and start at lvl 30.

[neva]

I too find this a touchy subject.

The majority of RoP tasks are lvl 50+ quests. If you embark on those quests at lvl 30, with the help of other high level players, you are essentially being power leveled. You cannot hit the mobs, you cannot do the crafting, you are in effect a bystander at your own RoP. I see level 33 'adults' and I think to myself "Hmmm. I wonder who did your RoP for you", because it is obvious you didn't do it yourself. If you approve of power leveling, and like others doing the work for you, I can see why this would appeal.

At lvl 50, you still cannot complete the RoP solo, however, you can contribute. You can hit the mobs, you can do all your own crafting with the right set of craft scales (I know this as I am Helian, and did all my own crafting for my RoP at lvl 50-55). It still requires a team effort from your guild and friends, but the difference is, you are a part of the team, not a bystander while someone does the work for you.

I understand that everyone has their own opinion, and wants to play the game their way, that is their right. My opinion is if you want to do your own RoP, wait till lvl 50. If you want to have others do it for you, go ahead and start at lvl 30.

Actually I did help attack the Shadow Dragon in my RoP. I did allot of distant attacks, sure I missed allot, but I did hit every one awhile(though it was like 0-5 points of damage).

Actually a few times they were telling me to get back further cause I was trying so hard to get in on it. I'm a stubborn player like that.

[Frith-Rae]

Mm Yes, the mobs realy like tasty under-rated hatchlings..*grins*

I understand that everyone has their own opinion, and wants to play the game their way, that is their right. My opinion is if you want to do your own RoP, wait till lvl 50. If you want to have others do it for you, go ahead and start at lvl 30.

But that's just it. You can wait till 50 but even as you point out, you're still NOT doing it "on your own." You're going to need the same number/level of people helping you at 50 than at 30. Sure, at 30 you can't do ANYTHING alone - but the one thing I think everyone CAN agree on is that the ROP isnt MEANT to be done alone. So yea, you can hit stuff at 50 you miss at 30..but you're no more "independent" or "worthy" of flight than anyone who chose at 30.

If you want the statement "do it on your own" to be actually true, you gotta go for 100 -and even then you might need a healer. Anyone who flies below level 100 should have the same "tag" as "well you did'nt do that all on your own did you.." Its just a silly judgement people make on a game mechanic. As if it reflects on the attitude or personality of the player - which, just from the small faction posting here, clearly it doesn't.

And its not anything like being power leveled - there are no levels to be gained involved. Its run vs. fly. Now if someone was say getting their levels FROM 30-50 by tagging along and gaining levels that way, THAT is powerleveling .

I always find this disconnection between dragons who were in since day one and dragons who came in once the ROP was in place. Those who were "lucky" to have adult dragons to look at when they started the game seem to feel it should be more elitest to have wings. Those of us who were here and waited months to even be able to fly, don't usually appear to have that attitude.

And I will have it said that we did try to get other standards in game for the ROP AND AROP. The devs really didn't listen much though. *smirks*

[Kesqui]

At lvl 50, you still cannot complete the RoP solo, however, you can contribute. You can hit the mobs, you can do all your own crafting with the right set of craft scales (I know this as I am Helian, and did all my own crafting for my RoP at lvl 50-55). It still requires a team effort from your guild and friends

Incidentally... two hatchlings at level 57 *can* do the Rite of Passage together, without additional help, if they're willing to collect a few death points along the way.

We *almost* did ours on our own (other than crafting the obsidian and granite bricks - Kesqui did the granite bricks and dug up the obsidian that someone else kindly made into bricks for my partner and I) - at two points we were offered help, and we accepted that help, but if that help hadn't been there we'd have managed Esh (both spawns of him, since we didn't know he'd spawn once for each of us if we both talked to Talon!) on our own, and we had a strategy prepared to deal with Lem that would have worked eventually. Not to say we don't appreciate the help we had - it certainly sped things up - but if it hadn't been there, we still would have been able to do it.

We managed Kaa by the skin of our teeth, the Entombed was a long fight (both times) but not particularly hard, the Crystalline Golem was just plain funny because *he* couldn't hit *us* and the Shadow Dragon was... a little disappointing. We'd expected that one to be a lot more difficult, that we'd NEED to ask for help on it. But as it was he had three or four level-eight skeleton mage friends and didn't get a chance to throw a single attack at us. We don't even know which of us struck the (only) blow against him.

We plan to go back, as adults, and see what we can do against him when we DON'T have a phylactery to blast him with.

Compare that to a level 30 hatchling... or Kesqui, level 32 when she did her RoP... and who was vastly underpowered when I picked her back up compared to our new-alt hatchlings. It was playing my alt up to level 57 that made me realise how much of Kesqui's RoP really was done for her - how much I didn't KNOW people did for me. Heck, Kesqui's gone up to level 45 and she's still dreadfully underpowered and not much fun to adventure with compared to my alt...

You really, really don't need the same amount of help at level 50 as you do at level 30 ... but if the requirement were raised to 50-ADV, I can see a lot of these "it took so LONG to get to level 30, I'm so BORED, I want to FLY" players leaving. Heck, it was knowing (after level 30) that I COULD start the RoP at any time I wanted that made it possible for me to keep my alt going to the level she is (and she was telling me "But... you're level 57, you could just do a few more levels and then get Gold Rage VI...." right up until I spoke to the Historian).

That said... those two hatchlings at level 57 would absolutely not have invited a level-30 hatchling to accompany them on the quests. The reason it worked for my alt and my partner is because we could keep an eye on each other and heal each other if it came down to it - or use Menacing Presence to draw aggro if one of us was taking a beating. You can't DO that with a level-30 hatchling to babysit; they're going to need all your heals (since in my experience it seems like mobs prey on the weakest member of a group!) and they're not going to be able to deal the damage to make up for the time you're taking to heal them instead of hammering the mob.

[Frith-Rae]

... but if the requirement were raised to 50-ADV, I can see a lot of these "it took so LONG to get to level 30, I'm so BORED, I want to FLY" players leaving.

Are you saying that's a good thing? I'm seeing that as a negative - introducing anytHing into the game that results in more people leaving (when this game has a small population to begin with) to me is not a good thing. If they're so bored they're about to leave, I don't see flying changing that. At least not for any long-term ideals - sure it may put off the bored player for a week or something; but once they see there's nothing else to do other than what already bored them they'd leave anyway I imagine.

And for symantics - you said two players at level 57..not level 50 - hey there's a difference .

I'm glad to hear you don't need as much help - sounds like a few of those fights have been nerfed or toned down (I remember the Sleeper as always taking a good size group of dragons...) than when I ran through it.

But yes you are right, group mechanics have been changed so that the level 30 will always be targeted (which also wasn't the case when I went through). But if you'd taken a level 52 that would have also been the case. Many players don't like this group dynamic change, which was a fix to the powerlevelers once-upon-a-time. When I did it, the higher level players could certainly pull aggro off me and so it was esaier to protect the young-uns.

But I again stick with the idea that the ROP wasn't implemented as a solo quest - people from time to time bring up raising the level requirement (its been brought up many times) and this is the answer I've understood in the past. Now certainly devs can change their minds - but as far as I am concerned I like an optional "forced grouping" depending on which level you conqurer it as. Back-in-da-day entire guilds came together on Ascension Nights and it was something you all did together and then celebrated. Noone cared that said dragon was only level 30 - it was great fun and a celebration - not a judgement.

It kinda saddens me to imagine hatchlings going through all that alone.

Which is why I hope they leave the option in - noone says you HAVE to - its your choice to wait or not; to feel some sense of accomplishment or whatever from a game - or not (as I don't regardless of what it is). But I think it would be a loss to the community to raise it to a point where ROP groups became "pointless" - there are so few reasons to do so in the game already (fight as a group).

[Shinkuu]

I can tell you from my experiences so far that many Dragon quests while not "misleading" can either at times be slightly bugged or very very very vague to the point of being unreasonable. Some get so vague that you do not even have the foggiest notion of where you are supposed to go to complete them.

So if you wanted to make them a requirement at least fix their text so that they point you in the right direction a bit better.

As for bumping up the crafting side of things I think it is really not a great idea. You should have the freedom to choose between being a crafter or an adventurer or both as you see fit. Choosing one path or another would just make you a bit dependent on the other class in the long run which seems like a good idea because that way you can support the Crafters with Mat hunts and coin while they support you with items.

As for needing Biped items...yeah...that makes no sense really.

[Kesqui]

Are you saying that's a good thing?

No, that's why I'm saying that although you really do *need* to be level 50 to have a hope of doing it yourself.... we'd lose too many people if they made that the programmed start point. And anything that loses players is bad.

And for symantics - you said two players at level 57..not level 50 - hey there's a difference .

True, there's a LOT of ability quests that've been done by the time you hit level 57, and I think my alt gained half a level, if that, during the RoP quest.

I'm glad to hear you don't need as much help - sounds like a few of those fights have been nerfed or toned down (I remember the Sleeper as always taking a good size group of dragons...) than when I ran through it.

I presume you mean the Entombed Will, not the Sleeper Both fights were twenty minutes long each, required both of our very close attention, and were long because we were concentrating on healing each other as needed instead of just trying to deal as much damage as possible. It'd have been a FAST fight with more people.

Esh would have been a similar-style fight if it'd just been the two of us and we hadn't spawned two of him - long, concentrating on keeping each other alive, because the damage will take care of itself.

But yes you are right, group mechanics have been changed so that the level 30 will always be targeted (which also wasn't the case when I went through). But if you'd taken a level 52 that would have also been the case.

The difference being that one hit from a high-powered mob is likely to kill the level 30 - but the level 52 has that much more armour and that much more health and is that much more likely to survive the first whack, which gives the non-targeted players the chance to heal or draw aggro (or both).

Back-in-da-day entire guilds came together on Ascension Nights and it was something you all did together and then celebrated. Noone cared that said dragon was only level 30 - it was great fun and a celebration - not a judgement.

It kinda saddens me to imagine hatchlings going through all that alone.

I don't have a big guild. My alt and my partner did indeed have three guests at our ascension, which we were happy about; we couldn't guarantee being able to be online when anyone else we knew would be there.

But I feel much more about it having *done* it myself instead of watching it be done. The difference between carefully picking your way into Draak, then taking on the Entombed as one of a pair, fighting and surviving by the skin of your teeth - and charging into Draak with high-powered help, and everyone spends five minutes at most taking turns gold-raging the Entombed, although you're standing out of the way because one hit from him and you need the cleric who's volunteered to come along...

I'm not saying "groups bad". I'm definitely not saying "raise the level requirement for RoP." What I am saying is that I think people should really push the advantages of waiting (hey, that level-50 hatchling scale is AWESOME.)

[Veruliyam]

The level 50 hatchling scales are awesome.

You can't make anything that compares, and I believe you cannot stumble upon a blighted drop either that is as good.

But to get them, you need to be a minimum of 50/40 and keep any bonus obsidian you gather from granite. And then stoneworking and scalecrafting scalesets, and T6 machines.

Or someone who can work obsidian into the required chest scales.

I did it recently, and I'm trying to do as much as possible on my own, because I'm crazy like that.

Aucapoma

[Frith-Rae]

Oh that's fine then, anyone can discuss the advantages if someone is asking - the only "real disadvantage" to not waiting is just having to wait longer flying .

Sorry I misunderstood - the whole "you're a better dragon/player/person for waiting until 50/60/80/whatever to go to ROP than 30" type arguments can sometimes be misconstrued because they happen so often . I don't like that people get mad at players for asking for help at 30 (or 50), it seems far too judgemental for something that could be so great.

I see comments in game and it rankles me since I was level 30ish when I went through mine, because it wasn't live when the game started and so all of us waited several months already.

I still remember staying up till 7 am Saturday morning to follow Kumu up the Peak of Storms with everyone else who had hung in there those last few hours to help him finish the Rite and he was the first Ascension on our Server. It was an emotional night for all us draggies.

I was actually saddened to hear a few weeks ago that the ROP can now be done anywhere instead of the Peak of Storms. Another great, atmospheric, group trip lost to make something simpler. To me it loses that idea of a ritual to just do it anywhere. Another sad change. Some of the great lore-centric-RP locations and events of this game are gone forever - to make things "easier".

There's just no comparison to the feeling of making it up to the Peak in all that dark-smokey-spookeyness (having fought your way through the ghosties often as not lol). Having to listen to the Hermit, getting everyone their token who has never been. Making that run through Dralk to the Hermit knowing at the end you're going to fly! And then flying for the first time, while all around your friends take wing with you in celebration of First Flight and watch as you circle the Peak (and figure out how to fly...).

Just one of the greatest in game moments I experienced over and over again with my friends. Going to dozens and dozens of Ascensions just to be a part of something that felt special.

Now you can do it in the middle of Bristugo - the journey and ritual of that final climb is lost

*sighs sadly*
/thread hijack for memories