Leasing a lair or plot

[Dragonboy]

Many new players have made us happy with their presence lately and because of this and an annoyance I had when I returned to the game over a year ago gave me the idea to post this.

I see many newby players who are quite shaken by the amount of coin that is required to buy a lair or plot, even had 1 player ask me once where the lair is that they were supposed to get for free which was quite a disappointment to hear that it was 600s-2g in price range.

Back in the days when lairs were new on Unity (not saying that it was better) but I recall buying both Rakonar lairs (800-900s each) in the Dralk region it cost me less then to buy a single lair or plot now 4 years later.

Actually I have 2 suggestions to propose…
1. Cut down big time on the price to purchase a lair or plot.
2. Implement a rental or lease system were players are forced to pay a specific amount of coin to a NPC in the player town or closest racial town. Allow for daily, weekly or monthly payments which the player has to keep track of him/herself (until the regular purchase price is paid over time).

While the lag is probably going to kill me for suggesting this, but giving people easier access to a home for themselves might be one extra encouragement for them to stay if they like the game.

[velveeta]

i am kinda sorta liking the basic concept.....just not sure if and when these types of things could be implemented....

i don't mind the idea of 'renting to own' a plot for a period of time, not a bad idea.......especially for newbs......
as long as it is clear that they would not be getting their novians or rent money spent back if they default.....and that renting is a one shot deal - at some point you will have to buy the plot or go without...
renters should not get the same priviliages as outright owners....

[Sigi]

Cutting down the price isn't an option unless people who allready bought expensive are compensated.

Renting or leasing is better though I think there should be an restriction on plot size too. So only the small plots can be rented out?

On the other hand, saving up for a plot isn't that bad or difficult, you have to work for your levels and for your plot. (did you tell them they had to build it too? Or do they think it comes pre-build?)

[neva]

Lairs and Plots can be pretty expensive, however I guess the other thought could be, do enough Trophy Hunter quests and you can make a pretty good amount of money. Since 2 quests of the same type equals about one silver or more.

Though admittedly, if you had no silver, this means you have to do about 800-1000 of these quests before you can actually get a plot or a lair.

Now to play some more of the devil's advocate on this idea...
why do new players want a plot/lair anyhow? The best they can do is /sit/ on it for awhile because you have to get your crafting skills high enough to even begin to do t1 prep work, and then not alone do more crafting stuff to get into the higher tiers.

I remember back when I played way when, I was hired for work and I help an elder dragon on his lair. I would make him the resources, place them away in his consigner and he buy them from me.
So I build, tell him, "your order is ready." and he pay me. It is actually how Isk got so much freakin' silver at first. However I don't think that many players today have that kinda funds, I may be wrong.
But maybe if you guys wanted to help a new player get a lair/plot, have them help you out on yours and pay them.
Not Only does this promote some community build and community strength, but it helps them get their crafting levels up so that when it comes time, they too can work on it and already have the experience in how to get it done.

Now, on the other side of the fence--

Bringing down prices would make it easy and renting/leasing a lair could teach younger players some responsibility. This would teach them how to keep up with fees and how to manage such things, which is what we all have to do in the real world with creditors.. evil people..
I guess if they don't pay, then they get a warning, and after the warning, they would get kicked out and the lair/plot would go back to being a empty plot/lair. Having them lose all there resources they put into the lair/plot.

Ofcourse, that could also piss off the player...

Then you have a ton of people also wanting to rent plot/lairs, and a ton of them would get tied up..
And I think we would have lack of plot/lairs again...

So, if you wanted to do that, could make another living area for such concept-- or--
Just make an area with cheaper prices? *shrugs*

I guess to me a 120x120x144 lair for 680s was actually a pretty good deal, let along up to 750s. >.>

Maybe, the idea is nice, but I guess because I had to work for my lair, I just support the concept of hard work pays off.

[Dragonboy]

On the other hand, saving up for a plot isn't that bad or difficult, you have to work for your levels and for your plot. (did you tell them they had to build it too? Or do they think it comes pre-build?)

Yes I told that player that they don’t come pre-build.

why do new players want a plot/lair anyhow? The best they can do is /sit/ on it for awhile because you have to get your crafting skills high enough to even begin to do t1 prep work, and then not alone do more crafting stuff to get into the higher tiers.

I remember back when I played way when, I was hired for work and I help an elder dragon on his lair. I would make him the resources, place them away in his consigner and he buy them from me.


Then you have a ton of people also wanting to rent plot/lairs, and a ton of them would get tied up..
And I think we would have lack of plot/lairs again...

So, if you wanted to do that, could make another living area for such concept-- or--
Just make an area with cheaper prices? *shrugs*

I guess to me a 120x120x144 lair for 680s was actually a pretty good deal, let along up to 750s. >.>

Maybe, the idea is nice, but I guess because I had to work for my lair, I just support the concept of hard work pays off.

I also had to work hard for my lair, first I had to grind loads of coins for the auctions when lairs were official and after me leaving Unity due to some bugs I suddenly had to grind another 1g because appearently prices had sky rocketed (for the exact same lair). So I know what hard work is, back in the day I earned all my coin from killing the Naghuk Ogres outside Harro. Because of this grind I think that something has to change. My biped has a rating 20 but is busy building his newly bought plot. Eventhough it might not be optimal a low level is able to build his home brick by brick and block by block…

Also the best way to level your building schools is by doing plot building… Or at least it should be.

Another reason for me to suggest this is because the average lair near a racial city is currently priced at about 1g-3g I guess, my Sslik bought his 60*40 plot near Sslanis for almost 3g (RP choice)… Those are just rediculous prices, no wonder that I have no neighbours. On this plot I cannot even build a guildhouse higher then T2 while my main’s lair was more then 1g less in price and can fit loads of Halls, Lairs and craft chambers in the entire tier range.

Actually I had a dragon adult doing some T1 lairshaping work for a while, but eventually he had his own lair and thus started working on his own lair.

[Akrion]

1. Cut down big time on the price to purchase a lair or plot.

This would accomplish nothing but further reduce the already extremely low value of coin. My characters easily have over 30g between them.(And that's between two level 100s that I hardly hunt with). That money won't ever be used for anything currently, I've got the property I want and won't be buying any more, so there's nothing else to use my money for.

On Order, someone new purchasing a plot is rarely ever an issue other than it being unavailable as there are plenty of people that are more than willing to spare a couple gold for a new player to purchase a plot or lair. (It's so easy to make that money back).

[Zullu]

As a new player the prices are not as bad as I thought they would be. Yes it will take some time to get a plot I agree but I think the hardest part honestly will be finding the right plot for me.

I do like the idea of renting a plot. This could be helpful for those that wish to get one sooner then most.

But personally for me I would rather see folks be introduced to working together to obtain plots and such things. I know it's hard to do but even a guild or channel (you could direct them too) that's sole purpose is to help these newer players out could be a step in the right direction.

I would love to run a guild like we had in beta and release where we would get together and adventure and we built a guild plot then worked as a team to get it up and going and from there we helped each other getting our plots up in the areas near by.

Granted as a player grows this would be hard to keep up as folks would outlevel each other. But even a monthly or bi weekly guild event where folks gathered to help raise coin or skill with the lower level players would help out.

Personally I think someone said it best in an earlier post...while the cost appears to be high, it should not take a dedicated person to long to obtain such a plot honestly. And once you do obtain it you will at least have a sense of accomplishment. And having played other games that had player housing it usually was not something that one could obtain very soon after starting/joining the game. Most of the time honestly it was reserved for high level players or maxxed players. At least here you can obtain it sooner, but yes it is a bit of task when first starting out.

[Frith-Rae]

I guess I'm ok with both ideas.

I don't mind the idea of plot prices being lowered - due to the fact that IMO silver is a bit harder to grind out in this game. As mentioned above, you may have to do upwards of 800 or so trophy turnins to get a gold. I as an elder player NEVER had a single gold to my name until it was lair-bid-time and it was donated to me to be able to afford my chosen spot at auction.

It also doesn't bother me that almost every plot available currently is less than what I paid for my plot at auction. That happens in almost every game as time goes on - things that were once harder to get become easier - because games and times change. To want other's to pay as much as you, or go through what you had to go through, simply because you had to, just isn't a philosophy I understand when it comes to gaming. Why does it hurt you if someone gets theirs a bit easier? *shrugs*

Though I also like the lease-to-own idea as well. If I rerolled at this point, or was a new player, this would be the only way I could see myself affording most plots. I could map out paying 100 silver a week and what I'd have to do - versus trying to save up to a gold. With the understanding that if I defaulted, I lost all my work - period.

The current plot prices are actually one of the reasons I haven't quit the game entirely. It just breaks my heart to think that if I ever decided to come back, all that lairwork would sit as novas because I could never again afford to buy a lair. The game just doesnt have the appeal for me to regrind out that money. So if I quit, and after I lost my plot, there would be no reason for me to return.

This would accomplish nothing but further reduce the already extremely low value of coin. My characters easily have over 30g between them.(And that's between two level 100s that I hardly hunt with). That money won't ever be used for anything currently, I've got the property I want and won't be buying any more, so there's nothing else to use my money for

But if you've got everyhting you want and aren't buying anything with it - how does it reduce the value of anything for you? It doesn't effect YOU at all.

And I don't know to me the "extremely low value" of coin seems to only apply to those have, not those who have nots. Coin to me has a very high value, because I spent much of my time crafting on my lair, I don't make much of anything else (so no selling), and I get frustrated if I try to hunt. So I craft on my lair. Meaning I don't earn 100 silver a year..lol.

I mean yea its great if you're a nice person willing to help a young player out. But the odds of say me, new player A, running into Rich Play B, and somehow finding out they'd give me a few gold for a plot are pretty low. I mean I would NEVER ask, and so that would be tough to figure out unless we just happen to be int he same guild and were on at the same time when such a discussion came up.

Course then there's the guilt from accepting such a donation. Some people just won't do it. And really you shouldn't have to need donations to buy what some consider to be the "main" or "2nd main" attraction to the game?

But maybe if you guys wanted to help a new player get a lair/plot, have them help you out on yours and pay them.
Not Only does this promote some community build and community strength, but it helps them get their crafting levels up so that when it comes time, they too can work on it and already have the experience in how to get it done.

Oh this still goes on. Its just run of the luck or lucky-by-mouth that you hear about plots that people are paying to build on. And again, this has to be fueled by players who have the extra coin. I really don't think this is a "majority" of players, but perhaps since I never ask people their fundage I really don't see it.

But yes there are lairs and plots out there that will pay per piece applied. If you ask around long enough int he populated channels you're bound to find out who's selling eventually!

However, Neva, I don't see the problem of running out of plots and lairs. At least on Order, I don't think we have enough players for that to happen, honestly. Especially since now that the turnover/takeback process actually works - its more on the rare side I find a lair TAKEN than for sale. And I see often endless empty plots in many communities right outside a main city. So even with leasing, if someone misses a couple weeks of rent it gets claimed back - until there's a huge player boom - it wouldn't really be an issue.

Now if there was a big enough player boom that Order is runing out of plots - well that means there's also a more stable economy and easier ways to grind out money as well - which means you could turnoff the lease option entirely because the *game has changed* (see above for what that means lol).

To me, crafting on your plot seems to be grind enough to play the game - even if you enjoy that type of grind - its a LOT of it to build anything. The idea of grinding out a gold or more first, in order to get to the part you'd enjoy - might turnoff more playres than it turns on. As the OP mentioned.

[Akrion]

But if you've got everyhting you want and aren't buying anything with it - how does it reduce the value of anything for you? It doesn't effect YOU at all.

And I don't know to me the "extremely low value" of coin seems to only apply to those have, not those who have nots. Coin to me has a very high value, because I spent much of my time crafting on my lair, I don't make much of anything else (so no selling), and I get frustrated if I try to hunt. So I craft on my lair. Meaning I don't earn 100 silver a year..lol.

I didn't say everything, I said I'm not buying any more property and that I won't be using the money for anything else. Because there is nothing else to use it for.

The last thing that makes it worth it for someone to actually make money these days is for plots. Plots are the only remaining thing to work towards making a good bit of money for. If you can afford a plot on your own within your first week of game play, what the hell is the point in even making money?

All that would happen from drastically reducing plot prices is get rid of the last thing that actually gives people a reason to pull in money outside port costs.

What then, after plots cost next to nothing, would the point in even having a money system in the game be? Or even putting effort into accomplishing anything, for that matter.

If there's anything plot/lair related that needs to be changed at all, it's the fact that most plot costs are FAR more expensive than lair costs. The biggest lairs in the game, that are master lairs at that, cost roughly 8 gold.. where as the 100x100s in Brandon's Shelf for example cost over 20 gold. Similar trend just about everywhere, really. Lairs that cost ~800 silver are surrounded by plots that cost ~3 gold.

[Radamanthas]

I just wanted to address a couple of things that I have read here, as they are boggling to me...

It seems to me that the general consensus here is that making coin in game is a 'grind'...I don't understand that at all. Coin can be had fairly easily, and even more so, as you learn your way around and gain more levels. When I first started out, I had my first 100s by level 15, my first 1g by level 30...and now, at level 100 adv, I make about a gold every 2-3 days just selling off the crap I accumulate simply from day-to-day hunting. If I actively 'grind' for coin (which I rarely do, as I usually have plenty of coin for my simple needs), I can make a gold every 8-12 hours. Now granted, a new player won't do that, at first, but given the price of plots and lairs these days, the new player really shouldn't have too much trouble coming up with coin to buy a plot...I see LOADS of plots and lairs going for under 1g all over. Perhaps the issue is that players want the *biggest* plots....dunno.

Which leads me to the second point...
If cost of real estate in game really is an issue for a player, they could give some serious consideration to joining a guild that has a guild community. Hard to argue that 1s for a plot is 'too much'. I don't know about other shards (I play on Chaos), but pretty much any guild community I have ever looked at has some plots still available for sale. I suspect more so, on other shards, as their populations are quite a bit smaller.

The last thing I wanted to address was someone mentioned that it is hard to find paid construction work. It is quite easy to find it - if you know where to look. One of my pet peeves is that this available resource isn't made more well known. The VAST majority of people I ever talk to have no idea it even exists, until I tell them. At any rate, on the Istaria secured login web site there is a link (at the left, under 'plots for sale' and 'plots for reclaim') that lists ALL paid construction work in all shards. And I happen to know that it IS updated regularly, as I just threw a couple of T1 chambers in my lair (paid work) yesterday for a new guildmate to earn some coin and experience on...and it is already listed on the web site. Looking at it right now, chaos has 89 structures needing work - all paid....at least half of which is T1-T2 work. Order has 66 structures...again, most of which is T1-T2. Anyway, the link to that page is here - although you may get redirected to the login page first.

[Kesqui]

Actually I had a dragon adult doing some T1 lairshaping work for a while, but eventually he had his own lair and thus started working on his own lair.

And I very much appreciated the chance to get the practice in to start on my own lair Once my guildmates are flying adults themselves, someone'll need more lairshaping practice

With your help I was able to get a very nice lair, in an appropriate racial city - and to me, the solution for expensive lairs really is "helping others and earning it."

[Shinkuu]

Lairs and Plots can be pretty expensive, however I guess the other thought could be, do enough Trophy Hunter quests and you can make a pretty good amount of money. Since 2 quests of the same type equals about one silver or more.

Though admittedly, if you had no silver, this means you have to do about 800-1000 of these quests before you can actually get a plot or a lair.

Now to play some more of the devil's advocate on this idea...
why do new players want a plot/lair anyhow? The best they can do is /sit/ on it for awhile because you have to get your crafting skills high enough to even begin to do t1 prep work, and then not alone do more crafting stuff to get into the higher tiers.

I remember back when I played way when, I was hired for work and I help an elder dragon on his lair. I would make him the resources, place them away in his consigner and he buy them from me.
So I build, tell him, "your order is ready." and he pay me. It is actually how Isk got so much freakin' silver at first. However I don't think that many players today have that kinda funds, I may be wrong.
But maybe if you guys wanted to help a new player get a lair/plot, have them help you out on yours and pay them.
Not Only does this promote some community build and community strength, but it helps them get their crafting levels up so that when it comes time, they too can work on it and already have the experience in how to get it done.

Being one of these new players I actually have to say that your suggestion honestly sounds better. Most of us will not really know what to do with a new lair or plot even if we had one so having an older player have us help them with theirs and teach us a bit about what we are doing while slowly feeding our coffers to the point where we can make our own is excellent all around.

[Dragonboy]

Being one of these new players I actually have to say that your suggestion honestly sounds better. Most of us will not really know what to do with a new lair or plot even if we had one so having an older player have us help them with theirs and teach us a bit about what we are doing while slowly feeding our coffers to the point where we can make our own is excellent all around.

This kind of information is already on the Wikia, with various craft guides and information about Construction work for both Lairs and plots, also the website of Crimson-Dawn has a lot of usefull player created guides.

The information is available for those that are interested and if anyone has a question it is free to ask.