Quite Surprised By This Turn of Events

[Destroy]

I must say that I am quite confused at the moment. The removal of Tazoon.com, the creation of these new forums, Dangit moving from Tazoon to here and having retained moderator powers, AE choosing to create it's own forums instead of help with a set of forums that have provided a decent place for people to discuss Horizons since the beginning of beta, etc.

I'm kinda awestruck.

I have a few questions that I'd like to ask here in the OT forum. I hope that I am not treated as some sort of outlandish trouble-maker like I ended up being dubbed at Tazoon.com - but more of a person who asks questions that are important to the people who sit outside of the subscribing community.

Yes, the can speak for themselves and your right in thinking that nobody asked me to speak for them. However, my one voice seems to often ask questions that other people might not feel brave enough to ask.

All that said, let's begin.

1) Dangit - how long ago did you know about the Tazoon.com Site going down and how long have you been speaking to AE about working here at their forums?

2) David Bowman, **if** the court rejects Tulga Games proposal (due to what many people are speculating as an illegal activity based on the multiple companies that were created by your "friends" to perhaps try to get you out of paying your bills)... what is next for Horizons?

3) David Bowman, you recently sent out an email to all of your past users asking them to come back and try Horizons once more. You claimed to have many new updates to the game as well as tweaks and fixes that will improve their playing experience.

As you very well know, more than 70% of your players have now left or are in the process of leaving. Most word of mouth for Horizons is quite negative, even from people who experienced the "new updates and patches" and quit simply because of them.

The email seems like a last-ditch effort to try and keep your MMORPG on life support just a little longer. There are some players who respect what your trying to do. There are some players who think your game should just pull the plug. There are some people who want nothing less that for you to be thrown in jail.

Each step of the way you have always come forward in a time of crisis and tried to snowball the people who know the truth about your game. You spin positive lights on things that nobody else ever could and you sometimes lie through your teeth to try to get one more month out of Horizons.

The question is: When does the bullcrap stop? When do you start speaking honestly to the people that quit and are NOT coming back? When do you apologize to those that WANTED Horizons to work and were not listened to for month after month? When do you apologize to the people that beta-tested your game and begged you not to release it because it wasn't finished yet?

In the words of Ricky Riccardo, "You've got some 'splainin' to do!"

I await your response, Dangit & David.

-Destroy

[Drachnyen]

Wel,, im not Bowman.. but I was one of the orginal testers who yes, recivied that same invitation. the email list used for that is old.. and im talking old as in it has the lists of the testers in the first closed beta release. so he's defiantly reaching back a long ways into the past to try and drudge up some of the veterens.

now to me this means one of two things. either

#1 theres a desperate need for subcribers and he's sending out some last ditch efforts to drum up busniess.

#2 Maybe he is finaly ready to settle down and listen to the players/vetrens/ former testers to improve this game and make it something both the players and devs can agree on.

Now I admit, beta ended on one heck of a sour note. large graphical holes, major memory leaks, the ungodly lag, and the myriad of other little annoying things.. like trying to cross the bridge to the trainers in chiconis and falling straight through for some unknown reason [;)]... after beta I pretty much vowed not to have anything more to do with this game, but when I got this recent invitation to rejoin I figured I would at the very least take the 7 days and give it another chance. I figure Bowman spent the time to dredge up all these very old players of horizons for a reason.. what that reason is im not entirely sure, but hopefully we'll find out soon, or theres going to be a lot of canceled accounts next week

[SirFrog]

First off I am not Dangit or DB :P

But the emailing of past clients of the game trying to get them to come back is not anything new. I have played several MMORPGs and each of the games that I have left has tried to get me to come back. Even your precious EQ.

As for explaining the relationship between Tulga and AE.. frankly that is none of yours or my buisness. That is a matter between the investers and the court. Do you question the relationship between McDonalds and Sysco Foods? No, why because it is not any of your buisness.

My advice to you and anyone else who feels they have been "Cheated" is find your copy of the "Original" (Pre-David Bowman) horizons and relish that. And while you are demanding explanations from people, could you get an explanation from Sam Walton why he moved the store three times in my home town, thanks.

[Dangit NotAChance]

Welcome Destroy,

I can answer a few of your questions. I have been talking to AE about having their own forums since I became a beta tester. I never really pushed the issue till about 2 months ago. I was getting about more than 5 pms a day at tazoon requesting the game info be updated on the site. When AE opened the community site, I saw it as an opportunity for AE to do their own forums and approached them with the idea again. Once again it was a lukewarm reception because AE didnt have the man power to run the forums.

I approached AE again and said, I would volunteer to administer the boards as long as they would support it. The subject of Tazoon came up and it was agreed that the community of Tazoon was important and needed to be preserved. I gave AE the contact info that I had for Ginesh. I know AE contacted Ginesh about tazoon and offered to merge tazoon into the community site. The details of the talks I dont know. I do know AE said Ginesh would be keeping tazoon seperate and would give Ginesh notice that they would not be able to host Tazoon. It was decided that the community forums would be ready to go live in a two to three week time frame.This was on a friday.On tuesday I was going to post on Tazoon that I would be leaving tazoon, and it would give me acouple of weeks to help get the forums ready.

that saturday Tazoon was down.I contacted thoseat AE that I had contacts of, and everyone I knew was surprised Tazoon was down as well.From Ginesh's posts it seems there was miscommunication and the database never came back online. Me andBangabeng(withBangabeng doing themajor scrambling) scrambled to get the community forums ready.

So believe what you will,There was no conspiracy to take tazoon.comdown.I and AE wanted tazoon.com to continue because weknow not everyone from that community would want to leave and come here. And Tazoon is a great community. Ginesh should be very proud of what he accomplished with it.

[imported_Frith-Rae]

Hey Dangit...can you please ask AE, or do this yourself...give us a rant forum! :).

This is my sole petition...

Unless you have access to the former posts on tazoon, then I'd like to ask that you go grab the Trophy Hunter Quest list over on Dragon Adventure forums :).

*BRING BACK THE RANT FORUM!!* *flies around holding a sign*

[Dangit NotAChance]

Rants, now there is a touchy subject, This is one I tossed around quite a bit. I wanted to give it time to settle and then see if we need one or not

[Vahrokh]

Dangit,

what kept Tazoon.com general chat "clean" was the presence of an official"venting the steam zone". I think it was very a good idea that in the long distance made the difference from other forums.

A difference that helped in focusing in content and player help more than in senseless and repeated blabbering about the same 3 - 4 recurrent themes.

If I may give you a friendly suggestion, I'd make a new rant sub-forum, that requires a sort of "double registration" or "double acceptance of some special ROC" so who ends up there knows exactly what he'll find and get.

Bye.

[Destroy]

First off I am not Dangit or DB [img]/Web/emoticons/emotion-4.gif[/img]

But the emailing of past clients of the game trying to get them to come back is not anything new. I have played several MMORPGs and each of the games that I have left has tried to get me to come back. Even your precious EQ.

As for explaining the relationship between Tulga and AE.. frankly that is none of yours or my buisness. That is a matter between the investers and the court. Do you question the relationship between McDonalds and Sysco Foods? No, why because it is not any of your buisness.

My advice to you and anyone else who feels they have been "Cheated" is find your copy of the "Original" (Pre-David Bowman) horizons and relish that. And while you are demanding explanations from people, could you get an explanation from Sam Walton why he moved the store three times in my home town, thanks.

First off, your right - your not Dangit or Bowman - so therefore you didn't need to respond to this thread... but you did, so I'll simply say this to you, Ilsefa: You've done your best to follow me around ever since you decided to up and leave after I told you (what, 7 months ago) that I would never allow crafters to outright SELL their wares to guild members. Ever since then it's been a preschool tit for tat with you. Move on.

As for your replies to my thread:

* There are millions of americans who follow all types of court cases. Enron, Scott Peterson, OJ, Martha Stewart, etc. Was it any of our business back then? Nope. The point is - it's all public record and the people have a right to know.

If YOU don't want to know - then don't read threads that you know might reveal such information.

And a couple of other points:

1) I never read about pre-Bowman Horizons.
2) Never once played EQ.
3) Sam Walton is dead.

[SirFrog]

First off, your right - your not Dangit or Bowman - so therefore you didn't need to respond to this thread... but you did, so I'll simply say this to you, Ilsefa: You've done your best to follow me around ever since you decided to up and leave after I told you (what, 7 months ago) that I would never allow crafters to outright SELL their wares to guild members. Ever since then it's been a preschool tit for tat with you. Move on.

Wow, step back and take your meds. Look at the name..SirFrog. Not Ilsefa, but SirFrog. It seems to me that you are the only one that has not moved on from whatever fight you and Ilsefa had what 7 months ago.

And as for you comment about me not needing to respond... Well as soon as you posted here you invited anyone and everyone to respond to the drivel you have posted.

As for your replies to my thread:

* There are millions of americans who follow all types of court cases. Enron, Scott Peterson, OJ, Martha Stewart, etc. Was it any of our business back then? Nope. The point is - it's all public record and the people have a right to know.

Yes it is a matter of public record but that does not mean that it should be drug about in the public eye. This trend of muckraking journalism is not what the public asked for it is what the media wanted to boost ratings.

If I want to know about such information I will take the time to look for it.

If YOU don't want to know - then don't read threads that you know might reveal such information.

If YOU don't play the game then don't post information you know will upset the playerbase in their forums. The simple fact of the matter is this is a forum for us the players (and potential players) to come and talk about the game (read Horizons). If you notice there is no forum to discuss AE or Tulga because that is not what we are here to talk about.

This is a game, it is MY GAME and I come here to enjoy it. This is a means for me to relax from the day to day garbage to which I have to deal. You and many others have forgotten that this is just a game. If AE goes under tommorrow then I have not been cheated, I have gotten exactly what I wanted: a few moments out of my life that I do not have to think about anything but what I will do next in the game.

And now I will take my own advice and stop feeding the Troll.

[Paladin]

Good on ya Destroy, keep asking them questions, you know the ones that will get no real answers. [:P]

Anywho, just thought I would drop in and say Hi, this thread looked pretty darn good to do that in.

It's a shame that Taz is no more, that was a great community at one time, one I was very proud to be a part of and help build. Then it became very very biased, and went against what Ginesh wanted. He wanted it to be a place where everyone could speak their minds, good or bad, and the community was strong because of that.

That community has been destroyed, and it makes me a bit sad.

[Destroy]

I've been told to shove off quite a bit by people on numerous sites and asked why I just don't turn my back and walk away. I was apologized to by Ginesh himself this morning - stating that if his site ever did anything to make me so bitter, he was sorry.

I've even been addressed by David Bowman, via IRC, in which he stated that we are a lot alike. We are both dedicated to our individual causes and we stop at nothing to follow them through.

That all being said: I really hope David comes here to answer my questions.

I remember the days of being Site Manager at HorizonsVault and being moderated "under the table" by Lyndrek for asking questions and making comments that were "Borderline Anti AE / Trolling".

I remember Bowman and Steve Escalante sitting in the back of a "secret IRC room" where they told the people in a devchat that they would take a list of all unanswered questions and answer them.

I compiled 75 unansered questions. 5 weeks later, after I begged day after day for them to keep their word to me and their players, they sent back 13 answers to 13 questions. Most of the answers were: "This is being talked about and will be addressed soon."

I watched as Artifact Entertainment's staff was unable to provide the fansites with a working XML database so that everyone could get an item, monster, skill list up on their fansites. Heck - they STILL don't have that XML completed.

I watched as Ross (AKA: Gale) sat in IRC with me and said that he didn't post a lot to the fansites in the beginning because he couldn't stand the trolls - and he also stated that he wished he knew who their characters were in the game.

More recently I watched as Dangit and Bowman worked together to take down Tazoon.com. A place where I didn't agree with everything that was said ... however I was happy that the players had someplace to post.

More players leave every day.
The 7 Day Trial is broken and bills your CC automactically.
The final court date is soon.
Ginesh feels wronged and is quite pissed off.
Many players are disheartened by the slap in the face over the Tazoon.com issue.
The game is still quite broken - almost a year after release... and the developers don't even know how to fix most problems.

Bowman - instead of writing emails to your players to get them to come back... you might want to start emailing companies who are looking for a good public relations spindoctor.

[Dangit NotAChance]

Destroy, you didnt watch me and Mr. Bowman take down Tazoon. And you are the one who is a good spindoctor. Take your accusations elsewhere.