Broken Items

[Velea]

In the discussion regarding potential loot items that would come from monsters in the Undead and Withered Aegis categories, many supported the idea of broken items. For those who aren't familiar with this, Broken Items are created using special formulas from items which drop as treasure. They are crafted through regular schools already in existence, but are used by adventurers. In addition to keeping these design goals, we also wanted to create final product items that while useful to players, would not completely surplant items that are customized for individuals through teched gear. Lastly, we want whatever items are introduced in the world to be ones that can be sold between players (both in parts or a whole item), but that once they are used by an individual will be something only that person makes use of, therefore the final product items will all be “Bind on Equip� items. And, of course, we wanted one system that can be implemented across all tiers in a manner that players can predict what is available as they reach higher levels and how to attain the items they want.

General Notes:

• Items will be balanced, and have requirements, based on the second half of each tier. (For example, T1 weapons will carry a level 10 as a min requirement, T2 weapons will have a level 30 requirement).
• Component parts will drop from higher level monsters in each tier so that as players approach mid-tier in level they will be able to begin to work toward a new item that will last them through the middle of the next tier.
• Skill and stat increases will go up for each tier, not just those tiers where a new bonus is added. (So a T3 weapon will have better overall stats than a T2 weapon, but both will only raise one skill, one stat and have one socket.)
• We won't be introducing armor at this time as part of the broken items system.

We'd like some feedback on the proposed design of the broken items system.

Broken Weapons
Broken weapons in particular will be made of at most three treasure drop components (though most will be 2) and two crafted components. In order to keep the treasure tables to where someone can realistically expect to collect the components, not all weapons will be available. We've tried to offer a list that includes various types of weapons, but limited to those which are most commonly used.

The proposed list of available weapons currently is:

• Bastard Sword
• Broad Sword
• Short Sword
• Two-Handed Sword
• Long Sword
• Dagger
• Battle Axe
• Large Axe
• Long Spear
• Mace
• Maul
• Warhammer
• Crossbow
• LongBow

Tier one weapons will provide a bonus to that weapon's primary skill and a single weapon socket. At tier 2, a stat bonus appropirate to the weapons skill will be added. At tier 4, a second stat bonus will be added. Tier 6 weapons will have a second gem socket added to them.

Broken Jewelry
Broken jewelry will work much the same as broken weapons do, but will not raise any particular skill What jewlery piece will raise what is listed below in table form.

• Bracelet: Armor, Health, Dexterity, Socket
• Earring: Health, Armor, Dexterity, Socket
• Necklace: Power, Speed, Focus, Socket
• Ring: Speed, Power, Dexterity, Socket

Jewelry will only ever require two treasure drop components and a single crafted resource.

Dragon Scale
Dragon scales are, as I'm sure you've guessed, a bit harder to create as a “one size fits most� than weapons or jewlery were. In order to provide scales that most dragons would want, yet still keep the tables down in clutter, the type of item being created as a final product will depend on a regular technique component to create a “Helian� or “Lunus� version in addition to two treasure dropped items. A single crafted resource will also be needed to make the final product for dragon scales.

To determine what scale will have what adjustments, we tried to take into consideration what dragons need most at what levels. Younger dragons seem to need protection to stay in a fight longer than they need to do more damage (small skill increases won't mean as much in the long run as giving someone more armor and health will, for example).

In order by tier, dragon scales will gain Armor, Health, Primal or Tooth & Claw skill, Power or Strength stat, Focus or Dexterity stat, Dragon Breath Skill.

Adjustment by tier
When considering how much adjustment to provide, we looked for values that were used in other items of the same tier.

Stats (Health, AC, Str, etc):

• T1 - 10
• T2 - 20
• T3 - 30
• T4 - 40
• T5 - 50
• T6 - 60

Skills:

• T1 - 6
• T2 - 12
• T3 - 18
• T4 - 24
• T5 - 30

Putting it all Together
Using the above proposal to create I've created a few example items:

Weapons:

• 1, Splendid Bastard Sword, + 6 Two-hand Slash, Weapon Socket
• 2, Exceptional Bastard Sword, + 12 Two-hand Slash, +12 Strength, Weapon Socket
• 3, Majestic Bastard Sword. + 18 Two-hand Slash, +18 Strength, Weapon Socket
• 4, Exceptional Bastard Sword, + 24 Two-hand Slash, +24 Strength, +24 Dexterity, Weapon Socket
• 5, Regal Bastard Sword, + 30 Two-hand Slash, +30 Strength, +30 Dexterity, Weapon Socket
• 6, Priceless Bastard Sword, + 30 Two-hand Slash, +30 Strength, +30 Dexterity, Weapon Socket, Weapon Socket

Jewelry:

• 1, Splendid Bracelet, + 10 Armor, Jewelry Socket
• 2, Exceptional Bracelet, + 20 Armor, + 20 Health, Jewelry Socket
• 3, Majestic Bracelet, + 30 Armor, + 30 Health, Jewelry Socket
• 4, Exceptional Bracelet, + 40 Armor, + 40 Health, + 40 Dexterity Jewelry Socket
• 5, Regal Bracelet, + 50 Armor, + 50 Health, + 50 Dexterity, Jewelry Socket
• 6, Priceless Bracelet, + 60 Armor, + 60 Health, + 60 Dexterity, Jewelry Socket

• 1, Splendid Necklace, + 10 Power, Jewelry Socket
• 2, Exceptional Necklace, + 20 Power, + 20 Speed, Jewelry Socket
• 3, Majestic Necklace, + 30 Power, + 30 Speed, Jewelry Socket
• 4, Exceptional Necklace, + 40 Power, + 40 Speed, + 40 Focus Jewelry Socket
• 5, Regal Necklace, + 50 Power, + 50 Speed, + 50 Focus, Jewelry Socket
• 6, Priceless Necklace, + 60 Power, + 60 Speed, + 60 Focus, Jewelry Socket

Dragon Scales:

• 1, Splendid Helian Chest Scale, +10 Armor
• 2, Exceptional Helian Chest Scale, +20 Armor, +20 Health
• 3, Majestic Helian Chest Scale, +30 Armor, +30 Health, +18 Primal
• 4, Exceptional Helian Chest Scale, +40 Armor, +40 Health, +24 Primal, +40 Power
• 5, Regal Helian Chest Scale, +50 Armor, +50 Health, +30 Primal, +50 Power
• 6, Priceless Helian Chest Scale, +60 Armor, +60 Health, +36 Primal, +60 Power, +36 Dragon Breath

[rizo/nawkia]

Speed Necklace @.@ I want! I do enjoy this idea so far looking forward to coming back sooner or later

[Guaran]

Extra jewelry sockets = good. This will help make jewelry crystals valuable. As they are now with only the neck getting to use them, there's no demand.

Broad Sword example: Will you be able to put a +65 Strength crystal in? If so, I think these look fine. If the Strength crystal doesn't stack, perhaps increase the str stat present on the weapon.

The Dragon Scales: Don't forget that a standard t5 armor scale has 75 armor, not 60, and standard t6 scales would be +90 armor. But I do think these will go over well. The extra Dragon Breath is nice. Perhaps put that on all the tiers? Try to get Dragons to use breath attacks more, this might help. Both the Lunus and Helian scales should get the dragon breath boost (which I think they do from your description).

we also wanted to create final product items that while useful to players, would not completely surplant items that are customized for individuals through teched gear.

Since the items will be crafted, I don't feel there should be too much concern for these replacing say existing teched weapons. We want to make something that adventurers will really want. So it should be the top end gear, and surpass the existing crafted stuff. Keep in mind that an adventurer will still need a crafters services to get a regular crafted weapon so he can start his journey of acquiring these exceptional pieces, which would eventually replace the crafted item.

Perhaps one of the "ingredients" in say the Bastard Sword example could be a regular crafted bastard sword with a weapon socket and some special crystal in the socket, which is used as the template to make the regal piece, and is destroyed or infused into it, in the process. A player could esentially turn in his original player crafted item plus the gathered bits, to the craft to combine it all into the new item. Would remove old weapons from circulation, keep the crafters who make the old ones in business.

But I do believe these should represent the best a player can get, perhaps aside from say demon drops or valkor/reklar items. (Some of those need improved btw).

All in all, I think this is off to a good start. Be glad when we can try this out.

[Knossos]

Best I can tell, there is no love for Druids on the weapon listing. A number of other schools use stavesd as weapon of choice.

Knossos

[C`gan]

Looks like the varying monk classes are left out as well, which use handwraps. Short bows are missing as well. Now, do the classifications on this also toss out the "fine" and "heavy" and "fine heavy" versions of the crossbow?

I think the idea is sound and I do like the addition of having a regular item crafted to make the superior items, such as the example of using a normal sword plus the broken pieces.

I also noted in your proposal, you've named both tier 2 and tier 4 "exceptional". Is there a different adjective you seek for one or the other (perhaps superior, grand, magnificent, excellent, masterwork, fortified, enriched, resplendent)?

As far as collected pieces go, are there going to be specific pieces you can combine for something more customized? For instance, could jewelry be broadened so that your stat choices on the finalized piece are determined by the drops you want to collect? Say you need pieces A and B for armor and health, while pieces A and C are armor and dexterity. B and C would be health and dexterity. That would make for a more personalized feel, plus require hunting a bit more to provide the right pieces. Extras would end up getting consigned (hopefully) as well so if you got A, B, and E (armor, health, focus) and you wanted A, B, and D (armor, health, power), you could trade the appropriate piece before crafting.

[Raptress]

I'm excited at the possibilities here, and I think things like this are exactly what are needed to put excitement into hunting (especially if some monsters are no longer dropping tech comps, which were the number one reason I hunted to begin with).

I do have to agree with Guaran though; if these items aren't in some way superior to crafted gear, putting them into the game is going to be a waste of effort. These items have to be things that players want. If crafted gear is better, then players will only want to make that crafted gear and will not want these weapons. So, I second his suggestions of requiring a "base" weapon so as to still require that a crafted weapon gets made.

[Velea]

A bit of feedback on what's been said already to answer questions.

Not all schools will always have a weapon available. This is intentional, as logically not all weapons can really be "broken" into pieces, and we're trying to keep the tables reasonable for drops. Thus while there are crossbows and longbows, there aren't shortbows for example.

The naming was a mistake on my part when creating the table. There is a different adjective for each tier.

And as this is not meant to replace more customized gear, no there won't be a way to combine the pieces. The system also doesn't work the way you suggested, C'gan. Each of those items would need to be created individually in all the various combinations. For gear customized such as you're suggesting, items with techniques will still exist.

Keep the questions and thoughts coming.

Edit: Saw Raptress's post after I'd made mine and remembered the thing I forgot. As I said, regular crafted items will be required for repairing (creating) the fixed item... but it won't be a whole weapon/item. It doesn't make "sense" to require a whole item when trying to repair a broken item.

[Kesqui]

Is there a reason the broken dragon equipment is dragon *scales* and not dragon *claws* ?

Also, I'm very, very used to "priceless" meaning "it's a hoardable item".
Priceless necklaces, priceless rings... they're hoardables.
Any chance the Tier 6 equipment could be called something different?

[xovian]

Is there a reason the broken dragon equipment is dragon *scales* and not dragon *claws* ?

Was also wondering about this. An accidental exclusion or by design?

[Velea]

Originally we'd thought about giving dragons claws rather than scales, as both would be the "weapon". But that would limit dragons to not having much worth working for under this system, so decided to go with scales instead.

Also, should have mentioned earlier that if there are weapons on the list that players feel wouldn't be as desired as others (perhaps duplicate in some manner), let us know. If we can "open up" by removing some weapons, we could add back on others. The list was generated to fit the goal of "does it make sense to be broken" and "keep it relatively short", but I'm not totally committed to that first one.

[Steelclaw]

Any thoughts (devs and players) about making these items decay instead of being attuned?

While they seem to be somewhat desirable, by making them attuned, the options for storing said items become vault or inventory -- thus detracting from their appeal.

I'd likely pass up a broken item because I have nowhere to store it once it's attuned.

[Guaran]

What about making say both the weapons and scales as having one open tech slot for which a drag-to-apply tech could be placed? Would allow for more customizability. Such as frozen tech on weapons, piercing winds and razor teeth on the wings and head, etc. Hopefully you could do this without removing anything on the proposed list, or if you had to, maybe remove the socket.

This level of customizability would be very easy to build in: in the formula, the item when it is being crafted has 1 open tech slot, with the only available tech choice being "weapon socket" (in the case of the bastard sword example). 2 open tech slots on the t6 items. Then during crafting, the tech slots could be chosen to be left open, or socketed, or in the t6 items 1 socket 1 open slot, 2 sockets, or 2 open slots. Then the open slots could take drag-to-apply techs.

Also, for the scales, any of them that are currently socketable, would be nice if the matching scales from this set would also have a socket. Example: all the chests and forelegs come with a single armor socket, the head with a single jewelry socket, in addition to the existing proposed stats (plz don't take something off ).

I like that the t6 sword has 2 sockets in addition to all the proposed stats. I'm guessing the +30 which matches the t5 is just a typo? Maybe make the t6 socketable scales also come with 2 sockets, just for the t6?

[Shian]

Any thoughts (devs and players) about making these items decay instead of being attuned?

While they seem to be somewhat desirable, by making them attuned, the options for storing said items become vault or inventory -- thus detracting from their appeal.

I'd likely pass up a broken item because I have nowhere to store it once it's attuned.

This. If they're attuned, I'd likely not bother either. I have enough troubles juggling vault space as it is. Also the reason why I don't use the new techs.

Something minor that hasn't yet been said, but the beauty of the old broken items (to me) was that they had lore flavor text on them. Perhaps I am alone in this matter, but I love items that hint at lore of the world I'm in. (My dragon owning a "Tooth of Drulkar" is just ducky )

[Holth]

I was going through my list of weapons and notice some of the weapons on the list are not used by level 10, 30 etc. :

Battle Axe
Two Handed Sword
Long Sword
Long Spear
Maul
Warhammer

Not sure if you are going to keep these new weapons in line with the current player made ones for level and skill requirements. If so, ones that could replace the above are :

Club
Hatchet
Large Axe
Hide Handwraps
Cloth Handwraps
Staff
Shillelagh
Short Spear
Short Sword
Shortbow

Thaalia of Order

[Guaran]

Best I can tell, there is no love for Druids on the weapon listing. A number of other schools use stavesd as weapon of choice.
Knossos

I noticed this too, but we do already have the bloodthorn staff and the demon staff. Figured maybe that was why.

Course if there is room on loot tables, be fine to add them to me. But these are spellcasting items, and to really stand out, would have to have something like +50 flame, +50 ice, +50 energy, +50 mind or something all stacked on the staff, or have tons of different staves (probably not a good way to go). I suppose if they did 2 different versions, one useable by mystics (druid, shaman, spiritist) that buffs all the mystic skills (nature, blight, spirit), and a second for arcane schools (mage, wizard, conjuror, sorcerer) that buffs all of those skills (flame, energy, ice, mind) that would be manageable.

I do hope they add a shortbow.

No one I know plays with a Bastard Sword. If they put that in I hope it has something to help it stand out, like maybe +50 Parry on the t5 or something.

[Trust]

Good idea, I like it. will pick nits later. really liked guaran's idea of leaving a blank slot for rub-offs. or better yet have the 'item' have all rub-off slots, and have the(unique to these items)techs be hunted/looted/crafted as well. that way each item would be unique and personal.
*e*, eh, just read the part about not wanting to surplant player made items. nevermind then. That philosophy while laudable has always been the bane of the loot system. how do you give the adventurers something to hunt for without dropping the crafters out of the loop.

[Xanthia]

I just have one question.


Will they look cool/different/unique/etc?


Maybe I'm the only one who cares. But I think if you make them look special as oppose to just recycling the old normal weapon textures we have now, that will make them even more desirable.

[LOVWYRM]

I really love the idea!

So only a kit is necessary to rapair brokem items?

Seems a bit easy for me-Old and long lost weapons, fix them with the tools and knowledge of "modern" ones?
Maybe the crafters- both drags and bipeds should have to learn a new craft school for that?

[lightning claw]

I Love these ideas !

Can i give you an idea for Lunus scales ?

* 1, Splendid Lunus Chest Scale, +10 Armor
* 2, Exceptional Lunus Chest Scale, +20 Armor, +20 Health
* 3, Majestic Lunus Chest Scale, +30 Armor, +30 Health, +20 tooth and claw
* 4, Exceptional Lunus Chest Scale, +40 Armor, (Something like Primal vengeance 5% ), +24 tooth and clwa , +40 Power
* 5, Regal Lunus Chest Scale, +50 Armor, Something like Primal vengeance 10% +30 Tooth and claw , +50 Dexterity
* 6, Priceless Lunus Chest Scale, +60 Armor, +Something like Primal vengeance15% +40 tooth and claw , +60 Dexterity , +36 Dragon Breath (Chance to hit )

I would give up my triple vengeance scale if something like the t 6 scale would make it in the game

[hallucin8]

EEEKKKK!!!! I LOVE IT
More jewellery sockets... O My Gosh!! MWAH, kisses all round.

As for what was previously mentioned, will stat xtals stack with the already stat increases on the weapons? I suppose it's not the end of the world if they don't, but making a triple socketed weapon and putting in the appropriate xtals would probably be overall more beneficial and easier than hunting for the broken pieces.

Call me daft, but how would one wear the t6 gear? Are you intending to make the level progression from the t5 items @ lvl 90 go to the t6 items @ lvl 100?

As for the ones you have currently chosen to leave out, I would strongly suggest a staff for mages, shillelagh for guardians, club (or whatever) for druids and shortspear for spiritists (seeing how you already have a long spear for spearman). Oh, and not to forget the handwraps for monks, they definitely need something. Should these not fall into your design, I would strongly urge you to consider these class additions for some pieces of (broken) armour.

I would also like to see further combinations on the jewellery. I support the stats-only part as we can easily use the sockets to compliment skills. Though I suppose we can just as easily boost other stats using the xtals too. However, same question as before, can we boost stats further using xtals that are already on the piece?

As a last suggestion, perhaps increase the bonuses on the weapons to be in line with that on the jewellery, ie t5/6 from +30 to +50. Given they are broken pieces and I can only bet some will be harder to find than others (whether by design or just some having a much higher demand), I would like to see that effort worth the reward. I know the intention is to not replace current player made weapons, but +30 just doesn't seem enough of an enticement.

There's my thoughts so far
Looking foward to it!