Talked with newbies: here are their game stopping issues and hints

[Dhalin]

You can also use a hotkey with the assist command in it while you’re targeting yourself, and it will select your last target.

So you can do…

1 Action Target Self
2 Cast Spell Primal Health V
3 Action Assist

… instant healing and no loss of target.

Well, see, now nobody ever said that actually does that.

I'll have to try it and see if it really does pick up the target I had auto-attack set on.

RE: Thaalia:

Auto-attacking something to death takes 10x longer than using, say, Gold Rage on it. What good does Auto-Attacks do, when I need that thing to die *NOW* but can't, because I had to heal myself with, say, Primal Health, and now I'm spamming either /cne or trying to click the mob I had, or running around spamming the /sne keybind...

[Vahrokh]

Well, see, now nobody ever said that actually does that

Because almost nobody feels the need for it. By your repeated posts around it's evident you have some uncommon issue at fighting mobs. The only "macros" I had in the last 7 years are to wave at people with colored text and to loot nearest.

Sure WoW had a *competitive grade PvPer* hotkey system but Istaria is way, way slower at fighting and generally way way easier than PvPing in arena in WoW (where those features are indeed the deal maker or breaker).

[Velea]

This thread is getting off topic and the posts are getting very "personal" rather than discussing a topic.

Please let the thread return to a discussion about what we could do as a team (both player and developer) to improve the new player experience.

[Dhalin]

This thread is getting off topic and the posts are getting very "personal" rather than discussing a topic.

Please let the thread return to a discussion about what we could do as a team (both player and developer) to improve the new player experience.

Don't look at me; I'm the one trying to dodge/defend against constant attacks against me/my character/my methods/my preferences because they don't agree. I guess, because I'm not a veteran, my preferences don't matter or something, because they've been playing the game longer, or they have more uber characters or something *shrugs*. I guess it is good that I'm a fairly patient person, but even I have my limits.

Anyways.......

Back on topic, it'd be nice if we had a mini-map. Most MMORPGs coming out these days have it, and players coming to Istaria from any of those MMORPGs would likely find themselves confused or getting lost without one. I know I did for awhile and I still do get lost from time-to-time when I'm playing my biped who can't fly straight from Point A to Point B, so it'd be really nice if we could either have a minimap, or at least, a right-click option in the map to remove its border and buttons, so we could leave it on-screen full-time for a kludged minimap. Currently, the huge black border with buttons takes up way too much screen area to use it as a minimap.

Also, in that same spirit, if we were going to go the kludge route, how about reducing the minimum size of the map window? I'd like to resize it even smaller but there seems to be a hard-coded limit as to how small you're permitted to make that window. The average minimap in other MMORPGs is about half the size of that limit, with no borders around it.

[Teto Frum]

Personally I find mini maps terribly annoying, as long as there is an option to remove it from screen, I could careless if its added. But it has to be removable for those that dont want it if its added.

[Dhalin]

Personally I find mini maps terribly annoying, as long as there is an option to remove it from screen, I could careless if its added. But it has to be removable for those that dont want it if its added.

I agree.

I'm a huge fan of OPTIONS.

I don't know about some games that I've seen minimaps on, but I know that WoW's is collapse-able down into this tiny little bar that you can barely notice (I think it is actually removable altogether if you use an addon).

But yes, options, options. Let the user decide.

And besides, all other windows in Istaria are toggle on-off anyways, there's no reason why a minimap wouldn't function the same way.

[Thicklesip]

I don't know if it's part of the default UI setup, but I already have a minimap: my map is perpetually open in the corner of my screen, kept small enough to be unobtrusive but big enough that I nearly never have to resize it to look at anything.

Rather than making a "mini map" a la WoW, I'd suggest (if anything) that it be merely possible to have two independent copies of the map open at once. That way if anyone so desired, they could have one copy permanently open and a "backup" copy to play with when the first isn't enough. Of course I can already spy the coding headache from here, but that's my two cents.

[Dhalin]

I don't know if it's part of the default UI setup, but I already have a minimap: my map is perpetually open in the corner of my screen, kept small enough to be unobtrusive but big enough that I nearly never have to resize it to look at anything.

I'm thinking you might have changed something in a pref/def/etc file somewhere; the smallest I'm allowed to resize the map takes up quite a good chunk of the screen and at that size, the huge black border on the left side of the window takes up too much of the map window's space and I can't seem to get rid of the area above the map either, where the location numbers, zoom in/out buttons, etc are shown.

Now, if it is possible to make some modifications to the data files to allow the user to get rid of that stuff, and shrink it a little smaller, then hey sure, that'd work. An dyeah, allowing 2 copies of the map to be open simultaneously woudl fix the problem. We can have 2 chats, why not 2 maps?

[Armameteus]

I know when it came to my map issues, it was the lack of the easily-accessible. Having to press the hotkey every time I needed to get my bearings was pretty tedious.

So, I just made my map collapsible, using the auto-hide feature. Then, whenever I wanted to see it, I could just mouse over the spot I'd set it to and it would open up, I'd get the info I needed and then I'd move the pointer away and it would close again, leaving the screen bare again. Plus, as such, I can leave the map large so I'm not squinting at the screen because it just disappears anyway. It works for me and, to be honest, I actually prefer it over a minimap.

[Thicklesip]

I'm thinking you might have changed something in a pref/def/etc file somewhere; the smallest I'm allowed to resize the map takes up quite a good chunk of the screen

I most certainly did not. If I'm cheating, it's by using a modern resolution, on a modern widescreen monitor. A bunch of screencaps from a few days ago (when I accidentally left it open extra wide, whoops) have it at about 515 by 277 pixels big. That includes borders, buttons, everything. Given that I have 1920 by 1024 pixels as total gamespace (windowed mode yay) that's aboooout 1/16th my screen dedicated to Not Getting Horribly Lost. I have at least twice that in chat boxes, easily, and about as much for hotkey bars, so I don't find it intrusive at all.

YMMV applies as it always does.

Armameteus, that sounds like a really super handy trick, I'll have to try that out. Thanks!


[EDIT] to add that the auto-hide feature sounds like something that should get more billing than it currently does. Does the tutorial mention it towards the end, or wherever it'd be appropriate? I've been playing on and off for YEARS now and I was, at best, only vaguely aware of it....

[Valkadesh]

I know this thread is fairly old, but I'd like to add my input on something and don't feel I should start a new thread just for that.

As someone who played the trial, and is a veteran of the old days of MMOs (UO,EQ,AC,DAoC,etc) I'd say the sole factor keeping me from playing is likely the UI/way you interact with just about everything. I recall the long ago when quest text wasn't even put in brackets, and you had to guess the magic keyword to make an NPC respond. I remember the olden days of slash commands. The problem is, I don't remember them fondly. The games, the characters, the races, the beautiful worlds that were constructed will always stay with me, but I'm never going to miss having to do a cryptic dance to get the game to do what I'm trying to do.

Basically what I'm getting at here is, the UI could use a bit of a revamp. I'm not sure how possible that is, or if it is possible if the changes that would need to be made are even feasible, but it is what is is. The small community here looks great, the game has depth and a wide world to go out and explore, and as someone who misses both of these in modern MMOs, I would make a home in Istaria in a heartbeat if I could get over the UI. Try as I might though, I'm officially spoiled, and while I can see the beauty in the old graphical styles, and can appreciate the "days of old" style gameplay, I just can't get much real enjoyment out of it all when interacting with it is a struggle.

Sorry, not trying to come off as a rant, just a bit disappointed with myself and that I know I'm probably never really going to find a similar game in the future because developers just don't build worlds anymore. Closest we got a shot at was Vanguard and SoE ripped that apart in their traditional fashion )=.

[Jorev1]

I know this thread is fairly old, but I'd like to add my input on something and don't feel I should start a new thread just for that.

As someone who played the trial, and is a veteran of the old days of MMOs (UO,EQ,AC,DAoC,etc) I'd say the sole factor keeping me from playing is likely the UI/way you interact with just about everything. I recall the long ago when quest text wasn't even put in brackets, and you had to guess the magic keyword to make an NPC respond. I remember the olden days of slash commands. The problem is, I don't remember them fondly. The games, the characters, the races, the beautiful worlds that were constructed will always stay with me, but I'm never going to miss having to do a cryptic dance to get the game to do what I'm trying to do.

Basically what I'm getting at here is, the UI could use a bit of a revamp. I'm not sure how possible that is, or if it is possible if the changes that would need to be made are even feasible, but it is what is is. The small community here looks great, the game has depth and a wide world to go out and explore, and as someone who misses both of these in modern MMOs, I would make a home in Istaria in a heartbeat if I could get over the UI. Try as I might though, I'm officially spoiled, and while I can see the beauty in the old graphical styles, and can appreciate the "days of old" style gameplay, I just can't get much real enjoyment out of it all when interacting with it is a struggle.

Sorry, not trying to come off as a rant, just a bit disappointed with myself and that I know I'm probably never really going to find a similar game in the future because developers just don't build worlds anymore. Closest we got a shot at was Vanguard and SoE ripped that apart in their traditional fashion )=.

Istaria does not use a keyword system to uncover quests, at least not the ones I have seen. They are automatically offered and the NPCs have icons over their heads indicating they have a quest. I don't recall Horizons using keywords at launch either.

I think you are confusing Istaria with classic EQ which utilized a keyword system. Personally I think the keyword system, and the non use of icons over questgivers heads was a superior system because you had to figure out whether an NPC had a quest or not. It was not a given. Sometimes the conversation revealed nothing, sometimes it lead to a quest being offered by that NPC, and other times it would offer information to be valuable somewhere else.

MMOGs sadly nowadays are being dummied down so every lazy person can solve all aspects easily. I miss having to use logic, game knowledge, and intellect to uncover and solve real quests.

[Raeshlavik]

As someone who played the trial, and is a veteran of the old days of MMOs (UO,EQ,AC,DAoC,etc) I'd say the sole factor keeping me from playing is likely the UI/way you interact with just about everything. I recall the long ago when quest text wasn't even put in brackets, and you had to guess the magic keyword to make an NPC respond. I remember the olden days of slash commands. The problem is, I don't remember them fondly. The games, the characters, the races, the beautiful worlds that were constructed will always stay with me, but I'm never going to miss having to do a cryptic dance to get the game to do what I'm trying to do.

True, Istaria meets players half-way; this isn't Zork by any stretch of the imagination, but then again is isn't "right click NPC, look on side bar and map to figure out what to kill, where, and how many".

It's my opinion players have gotten a bit spoiled by the current crop of MMOs which are trying desperately to remove any real sense of 'adventure' from the game by making everything as obvious as possible. Heck, in that 800 pound gorilla MMO, the quest givers are even put on the minimap for you... Just so you don't miss one as you ride the rails from hub to hub.

Just a year or two ago I would amaze friends when we were alt-ing and, as my new Tauren of the week, I would run off in some random direction to visit some quest chain they had never seen... And these are folks who've played the game since shortly after launch.

Adventuring... It's not just a moniker you get because you carry a sword! (chuckle)

Nowadays the hard part is figuring out how to get to the exclamation mark on the map.

Basically what I'm getting at here is, the UI could use a bit of a revamp. I'm not sure how possible that is, or if it is possible if the changes that would need to be made are even feasible, but it is what is is. The small community here looks great, the game has depth and a wide world to go out and explore, and as someone who misses both of these in modern MMOs, I would make a home in Istaria in a heartbeat if I could get over the UI. Try as I might though, I'm officially spoiled, and while I can see the beauty in the old graphical styles, and can appreciate the "days of old" style gameplay, I just can't get much real enjoyment out of it all when interacting with it is a struggle.

Sorry, not trying to come off as a rant, just a bit disappointed with myself and that I know I'm probably never really going to find a similar game in the future because developers just don't build worlds anymore. Closest we got a shot at was Vanguard and SoE ripped that apart in their traditional fashion )=.

No worries.

Istaria, like other MMOs of it's vintage, is very complex and the UI sort of follows suit... Eve Online has a much more convoluted interface in my opinion and it's again due to complexity, it's also a circa 2003/2004 MMO.

Now you will find agreement here that the UI elements could use a little sprucing up. When the UI was made, the common monitor was 1024x768, so these days everything seems really tiny and the text is microscopic. You get the big icon bar in the big MMOs now, Istaria has these itty bitty bars. The big MMOs automatically populate the bars as you go, Istaria knows you'll have 500 things to stick there eventually and leaves that up to you. The big MMOs have this giant 'accept' button on the quest UI, Istaria expects you to read... It's just from a different era.

[Valkadesh]

Istaria does not use a keyword system to uncover quests, at least not the ones I have seen. They are automatically offered and the NPCs have icons over their heads indicating they have a quest. I don't recall Horizons using keywords at launch either.

I think you are confusing Istaria with classic EQ which utilized a keyword system. Personally I think the keyword system, and the non use of icons over questgivers heads was a superior system because you had to figure out whether an NPC had a quest or not. It was not a given. Sometimes the conversation revealed nothing, sometimes it lead to a quest being offered by that NPC, and other times it would offer information to be valuable somewhere else.

MMOGs sadly nowadays are being dummied down so every lazy person can solve all aspects easily. I miss having to use logic, game knowledge, and intellect to uncover and solve real quests.

I might have been mistaken, it's been a long time since I played the trial(probably over a year or so now), but from what I recall you had to respond back with particular phrases in parts of the intro quests and/or click on key words to advance them. I know it wasn't nearly as difficult as original EQ. I just remember having a difficult time to actually get the quest text to respond/update when I tried it last.

I'm by no means suggesting things go the way of the WoW quest system, where you're handed everything and you don't even need to read the quest text to blindly march out and stab the requisite number of critters, rinse and repeat until the next quest hub. I'm religious about reading quest text and eat up game lore. There's a line between dumbing something down though and unobfuscating it. Overall, I just felt that while not impossible, it wasn't worth the level of frustration that interacting with the game using it's UI at the time presented.

[Jorev1]

You should try playing again. There is a completely true free to play option if you play a human character since Istaria has no cash shop or other form of RMT.

[AmonGwareth]

Valkadesh, I understand how the old way might have been frustrating (having to greet every npc and chat with them by clicking all of their links to find out if they had something). But, in the last 7 years we've done a lot of work to improve how the game handles quests.

For example, for the majority of the quests in the game you now:

a) Will see a floating question mark above their head if they have a quest available for you.

b) When you greet the npc they will list all of the quests they have for you.

A new change that is coming (I can't remember if its on live yet or not) is that if a quest you already have wants you to talk to a npc that npc will have an icon over their head. Another change we're working on (again, can't remember if its live or not) is improving the brightness of the quest icon so that you will notice it from a greater distance.

We've made these changes because starting in 2006 we really began ramping up the number of quests in the game, first with New Trismus and the two Tutorial Islands, and then later with Lesser Aradoth (tier1). And most recently with Dralnok's Doom (tier6) and the Dalimond Peninsula (tier2). Not counting Trophy and Town Marshall quests, there are many hundreds more quests in the game than back in 2004 and 2005.

[Frith-Rae]

Perhaps be more specific on the way the UI needs to be changed.

Because honestly I've found the Istarian UI since day one the "best" of any of the "newer batch" of games just because you can hide/resize/move ANYTHING and EVERYTHING!

Whereas in most of the games sent out then and now, things are locked into positions and you can't move things around without addons or other tricks.

But the Horizons UI - oooh...the lovely customization options out of the box...*ahhh..sighs happily* LOL

[Dragonboy]

Because honestly I've found the Istarian UI since day one the "best" of any of the "newer batch" of games just because you can hide/resize/move ANYTHING and EVERYTHING!

This... I have played 4-5 different MMORPG's so far, All more recent then Istaria except maybe SWG (don't know when that game went live) and I just love the ability to change everything.

Heck I would even want some things smaller. Like the "Health, XP adv, XP craft, Bulk"-Bar... I would love to see a tiny mode were we only see numbers instead of still having the red bar for health (for example... Health : 3144 / 3144) and same goes for the screen that shows the enemies health when selected. I would love to lose the colored bars. Except breath bar.

As for all the changes... Seeing the marks on the NPC's which have a quest is a good change. As long as the devs don't make the questgivers or the location of the questmob visible on the map. Didn't like that in WoW.