Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 46

Thread: WoW, This Game is Terrible

  1. #21
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Dralk and in my lair, where else?
    Posts
    2,029

    Default Re: WoW, This Game is Terrible

    Anyway, this is getting derailed here people! Back to why WoW sucks!

    WoW does not suck.
    WoW is the blatant demonstration at how a copycat, mediocre graphics MMO with limited potential can become THE blockbuster if managed by competent people.

    Istaria is the blatant demonstration at how the best and still most potential TODAY of every MMO ever made can become the vastly under-estimated fall behind of all because in the past it has been in the hands of under-capitalized, shady management.


    WoW does its dirty job of being another Blizzard money wagon maker with no big pretense, you can clearly see expansion after expansion how they humbly COPIED others ideas (ie EQ and later Warhammer Online for achievements and more).

    WoW attracts the kind of wholesale idiots who make up for 99% of the world population, that's a design objective of WoW, not a design defect and does it admirably.

    I wish Istaria attracted 10k players. That would change things a lot and would finally give it a chance to express itself.

    Istaria is getting old without being given a chance to show off. Graphics are too obsolete, network code too unresponsive, mechanics too outdated, economy not existant. Yet in powerful hands it could have become a Great Game with 500k subs, something of the class of LOTRO.
    Istaria will be forever a true pain for me to recall, because I love it so much and now its current developers love it so much but I don't see a realistic way back to popularity and therefore to growth, funding etc.
    Vahrokh Vain - Ancient dragon level 100 adv 100 craft 34M of untainted, fireworks and other crap free hoard.
    Isarion - Reaver Healer Spiritist, many craft classes.

  2. #22

    Default Re: WoW, This Game is Terrible

    Quote Originally Posted by Kesqui View Post
    Note, I haven't played other games for very long - I've only played Istaria. Why? Because the entire reason I play is to play a dragon character. No other game gives that, therefore I'm not going to play any other game. I won't even be playing WoW with the transform-to-dragon-mount thing, because that's not the same as being able to PLAY as a dragon. I played Rappelz for a little while, and I learned I HATE PVP with a passion.

    I have (somewhere) three ORIGINAL Horizons discs. Bought at £40 apiece. In 2003 the subscription fee was also more expensive. I quit in 2004 because I couldn't *afford* to play any more... especially not a game that so dreadfully gimped the "draw" character class. I came back in 2009 because the "draw" character class still only exists in Istaria.

    And you know what? If it'd get more content into the game, and get the content players were asking for into the game, I'd BUY expansion packs, and although I know that the developers are against it, I wish there was the opportunity for microtransactions. ANY money to keep a game I love running = good money. Please, Virtrium, LET me throw you a couple of quid here and there to get little doodads in the game that aren't important to gameplay but look cool in, say, my lair. I tossed hundreds of pounds at Virtual Horse Ranch for custom horse colours, for goodness' sake... but I didn't want extra subscriptions.

    [sarcasm mode]Oh that evil money-grubbing Istaria, playing a dragon isn't free after the first fourteen days, how dare they charge a subscription at all![/sarcasm mode]
    There are games and websites much on Istaria's level that are run, in most cases, purely on the money that can be collected from subs. Making the player pay huge sums of money for the disks is outrageous because of that fact. All that money goes straight into the developers' pockets because, hey, it's a cash cow--all it's about is the money. I'm aware that everyone needs money to make a living, but it's the fact that such a huge sum of said money goes toward anything but the game that money came from.

    I don't mind buying the games and expansions, sure. Just so long as they are stupid-expensive. But they are.

    Alright then, how about the subs? Surely, since the game already costs so very much to buy, the subs must be a bit cheaper to compensate? Nope. Didn't think so.

    I'm not saying I don't agree with the idea that money going into the company = content going into the game. Hell, if it meant I could make games I enjoy better, I'd donate money to the cause. It's the fact that huge amounts of that money don't even go toward the game's development. Kind of like WoW and Blizzard. I don't know about Istaria, but they don't accept those kinds of things, as you've said, so I can't really compare the two.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kesqui View Post
    In 2003 in Horizons there were the European shards (good luck playing with your friends if you were an ex-pat American living in the UK...) and the American shards. In Europe we had Ice, Wind and Earth. I don't remember what shards there were in the North American region. In 2004 - shortly after I left - they merged the EU shards into Unity. And, of course, now it looks like all the American shards have been merged, and we have a mere three shards.

    Although I can transfer to Blight for free, I can't transfer to Order for free - and if I transfer to Blight, that character can't be transferred back out.
    The points you're making are all in the past. In the past WoW didn't exist. Does that equate to saying that This game was more popular than that one because at some point in time Istaria was more popular and at some point in time WoW wasn't?

    The reason I'm not playing WoW now is because I don't like it now. The reason I play Istaria now is because I like it now. As I said in another post here somewhere, the changes that are made to a game can't simply be ignored because "it used to be like this, you know." Changes, deliberate or otherwise, wanted or not, for the "right" reasons or the "wrong", have made this game at current better than WoW. Less servers means less need for world-hopping--oh, I've already said all this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kesqui View Post
    Can you actually provide a cited reference for a death that's directly attributable to World of Warcraft?
    Admittedly, no, I can't. The only reason I brought it up is because I remember watching it on the news one day. They'd reiterated about it constantly for quite a while. Watching the full hour, seeing it over and over, I assume that my memory hasn't completely failed me of yet.

    But, no, I don't have anything I can actually cite. Then again, if you look something up on google, I'm sure you'd find it somewhere, eventually. Regardless of whether or not it's legit, hearing even rumors about something like that is enough to at least put me off of it. Again, this whole thing is more about my opinion than actual evidence, so I'm really just stating what I've heard and following my gut. Even if it's not entirely true, I still don't feel right about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kesqui View Post
    There are a few.... odd... players in Istaria, too. Heaven forfend you should be minding your own business, playing as a dragon hatchling, and accept a group invite from another newbie dragon hatchling. You've got an even chance of getting someone who wants to show you "dragon mating positions". *sigh* Yes, it really, actually happened in game. Creepy.
    Why doesn't anyone realize, no matter how many times I say it, I'm not trying to put Istaria into the "perfect" category by any means. I know there are weird people on here. I've had the unfortunate chance of encountering one. I just told him to bugger off, but, yeah, it was still pretty messed up. The reason I prefer Istaria over WoW is simply because it occurs far more in WoW.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kesqui View Post
    I wait with bated breath to see the videos of you soloing Reklar, Valkor, Fafnir, Son of Gigaroth, the Rift Bosses.... that'd be AWESOME fight footage.

    I suspect that in WoW you would be able to play certain content "solo" as much as you like - it's just going to make things take longer, or be a bit more tedious, or change how you play a bit.

    Playing Istaria solo is similar - your hunting style has to be different, the creatures you hunt are different.
    And the same goes for this comment too. Never said Istaria was perfect. Just said it was better. It still has these problems and after being told so many times in this thread, I'm well aware of that fact. Really, it's when people don't take the time to hear the whole story that they jump to conclusions like this. I've already said this. It's not perfect and I'm aware of that. There, I said it again.

    I'm not happy about the fact that, if I want to fight those bosses, I'll have to group up with people. I hate asking for help in MMOs (for good reason) and even with Istaria's community, it's practically hard-wired into me by now. You bug somebody online, nine times out of ten, they get hostile. That's just how it is on big MMOs. Istaria isn't like that, and that's great, but it doesn't mean I actually like to bug other people to help me. If I could, I would solo them. However, it's obviously not possible, given what you and many others have said over and over again. Do I think it's a flaw? Yes, I do.

    [sarcasm mode]There, I said it; Istaria is flawed! It's not perfect! Oh dear god, the world is ending! I'm admitting Istaria's not perfect![/sarcasm mode]

    You'd think that, since I never openly stated it was, people would get the idea that I like it more, but not to such a degree that I think it's perfect. I didn't think it was something that needed to be said. I'll have to remember to be more blunt next time I rant. Or, is it more obvious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kesqui View Post
    In real life you don't see people who know everything there is to know about Biochemistry and Blacksmithing and Gemcutting and Sculpting, yatta yatta yatta... people tend to either be a "journeyman" at multiple trades, a "beginner" at ALL trades or a master of one or two related trades.
    And, once again, as a result of not reading my responses to other people, I find myself repeating... myself.

    I compared it to real life in the sense that grouping up with other people easily is in fact non-existent. You can't just ask someone to be a friend and they'll say "sure". That's not how life works. However, in many MMOs, they force you to buddy-up with multiple people to combat a single challenge. This I find annoying because, in more cases than not, if you attempt to ask people to help you on WoW, you get shunned. Why? Because, as Shian put it, being anonymous somehow gives people the right to also be a jerk, as most seem to believe.

    Istaria is better than WoW because, at current, it's not like that at all. If I did ask for help, nine times out of ten, I can expect to either be accepted from the get-go or at the very least politely told that they're too busy. Which would you choose? The countless hoards of jerk-offs that call you some derogatory word for even asking? Or the Istarian community that, at the very worst, will tell you they're sorry that they can't help out? Kind of a no-brainer there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kesqui View Post
    I have an Istarian character who is a Confectioner. She may someday be a confectioner/alchemist. Because someday I'd like to be able to make some of the fancy-coloured dyes that are only available at Master alchemy level. But I really, really, really can't be bothered training her up in everything else (not least because I don't LIKE playing a biped particularly).... even if I know I can train her up in all of them.
    And, like I've already said to someone else, it's all your preference. I don't like the bipeds much either. I mean, the biggest attraction that brought me to Istaria was the ability to play as a dragon, yeah. Add to that, they're actually a pretty good beginner creature if you ever want to play the game, because right now they're really simple, with few classes to worry about (Not that a few more wouldn't be welcome, but that's beside the point).

    Does it mean I'll never play as a biped? Probably not. I've wanted to try a Sslik for a while, but I'm the type of guy that likes to "finish" a character before going onto another one. So it might be a while until then. Does that mean though that I'm not going to try for a max in every singe class? Heck no. I take it as a challenge. Would I give it every last ounce of my effort? Too right I would. Why? Because I can. If that's not your cup of tea, then it's just not. Am I trying to dissuade you from playing WoW? No. I'm just stating my opinion. If you don't like the idea of grinding up your character (or at least trying in come form or fashion to gain them a fair number of levels), then don't. I'm not forcing you.

    What your saying is almost like you're attacking my opinion. It's my opinion, not some rule you're being told to follow. Basing any argument on opinions is pointless because they don't get anywhere. People all have different opinions. Unless you're giving some form of valid argument against it (Ie. finding some reason other than "I don't agree") to oppose my statement, then I don't even have any reason to be defending myself.

    So, to reiterate once again, it's my opinion and nothing more. What you've just said is your opinion. And nothing more. I don't have to take it any more seriously than you do for mine.

    *sigh* Anyway, back on-topic...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kesqui View Post
    Games need money to survive. If the cash cow stops giving milk, they starve and die. EVERY game needs a cash cow... they aren't being run "out of the goodness of someone's heart".
    Refer back to the first response of this... set of responses. I don't know what it's called. "Response tree"? Whatever it's called, it applies here too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kesqui View Post
    Please explain this to Virtrium, that I should be able to experience all of the game's features with just one character. I would like to have a dragon confectioner character. I would like my dragon confectioner character to be able to make alchemical dyes. I would also like my dragon confectioner/scalecrafter/lairshaper/crystalshaper/alchemist/warrior to be able to join the Cleric school. Kesqui's always wanted to be able to cast Group Heal.

    Whoops. I've gotta have at least two characters to play those schools - a dragon and a biped. And I don't like playing bipeds.
    You forgot your "[sarcasm]" "[/sarcasm]" tags.

    It's a different situation when the character you've chosen to play is deliberately shaped to be different from every other character in the game. WoW's doesn't quite fit, because it's two whole factions that are different from one another. Istaria's is one single type of creature, making it unique, rather than simply "different from these guys, but the same as these guys". I like to think of it as a game within a game. It does encourage you to play as other creatures to be able to utilize other abilities, but it's not forcing you to be one of every creature to get everything in the game. Just either dragon or biped. Two characters is not asking much.

    WoW's character system on the other hand works on the basis that the two factions are different from the other, but the creatures within each are incredibly similar to one another in terms of abilities/stats/weapons and armour, etc. However, each type of creature within that faction also follows a very linear plot progression based around their race. Even though they're part of the Alliance, Elves have to follow the elven plot and cannot take part in human plots, for example. This makes experiencing the full, all-encompassing plot tedious because it's sort of like playing the same character over and over, just through different storylines. Essentially, it's asking you to play as one of every character to get the full story, even though many characters are tediously similar. That is asking too much.

    Much of what can be done in Istaria is different. As far as I've seen, Dragons have their own major plot based around their race, but can still interact to a degree into the biped's plots, though, of course, not to a very intimate one. To experience the full biped plots, you need only choose a biped and start playing because you can literally do everything every biped can do as only one biped. You don't need to switch races over and over, playing the same general type of creature to experience numerous plots. It's either Dragon, with their own plot, or biped with their own plots. Far less demanding for a player then WoW.

    Again, it's like a game within a game. The dragon campaign or the biped campaign. For WoW... it's just a mess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kesqui View Post
    Because the game population is too low to support having more. Historically there were more, and if the game had a huge boost in population they'd probably have to open more shards simply to reduce lag issues.
    Refer to me second response in this "response tree" (yeah, I still don't know what it's really called). Stop living in the past.

    As for the future, yes, Virtrium would likely need to make more servers again. But that is not for us to see. For it is currently the present, and my argument is not based on where both games will be in so much time, but where they are now. For all I know, in 5 years, Istaria could become the single most popular MMO of all time. Same as WoW could fall of the face of the earth and vanish forever. We just don't know. Right now this game is, in my eyes, better than WoW (not perfect, mind you, but better).

    Quote Originally Posted by Kesqui View Post
    The 97th Fire Opal Golem I fought pretty much was the same battle as the second Fire Opal Golem I fought... they don't come up with new tricks. And if I was supposed to switch to some other mob for "new experiences" ... well, that doesn't work with the "playing solo" aspect very well. Fire Opal Golems just happened to be the most efficient mob to fight in order to gain experience for what I was doing.
    When I said that, I was referring to the hypothetical difficulty system that I already talked about before. In which, by increasing or decreasing the hypothetical difficulty, it would cause said mob to react in battle accordingly. Easy = easier battle, but with little reward, hard = harder battle (perhaps only doable in a group), but with huge reward. The idea was that this would allow a player to solo everything, with little reward, but still be able to experience the full content of the game. Harder difficulties would then create the need for groups, as well as make the mobs smarter, stronger, use different abilities/attacks, and so on. Hypothetically, it would solve the problem of forced grouping up to a point so players could get a full play-through of the game up to the "final boss" (if there is one) and still allow for repeat run-throughs of the battle(s) in which said mobs would employ better tactics as listed above, thus making the battle slightly different every time and ensuring that the game play not go stale very easily, still allow group play, amass greater reward every time, etc, etc, etc.

    This was all my attempt at finding a solution to the forced-grouping problem that many MMOs employ today. I was speaking as if it were existent in WoW, Istaria and other various MMOs. Which it's sadly not. Yes, Istaria does it too, with those final bosses, but WoW does it even more so throughout the entire game. I don't mind missing out on a few bosses as much as I do missing out on a massive chunk of the game itself. WoW does this. You want proof? Ask Shian.
    Chaos: Gael Tycarren--Dragon
    "I just... want to remember."

  3. #23

    Default Re: WoW, This Game is Terrible

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahael View Post
    Money vampires?

    See http://www.geeks.co.uk/7282-activisi...heap-games-you

    So it's no wonder WoW has so many overpriced 'services' nowadays...

    Yeah. Screw innovation, bring more sequels to sequels! NHL series anyone? Hah

    I used to play original MoH:AA and Call of Duty, as well as BF1942. But the sequels? Meh... (I know I know, only CoD is published by Activision).
    Oh, don't even get me started on the audacity that is the "Guitar Hero" era of gaming. Biggest. Scam. Ever. *considers starting a whole new rant about that now*

    As for knock-off sequels? Nergh... I don't even want to think about that. So many good game series'... ruined. So many deep plots... destroyed. So many memorable characters... forgotten.

    I suppose Blizzard aren't the worst then, I'll give you that.
    Chaos: Gael Tycarren--Dragon
    "I just... want to remember."

  4. #24

    Default Re: WoW, This Game is Terrible

    Quote Originally Posted by Vahrokh View Post


    WoW does not suck.
    WoW is the blatant demonstration at how a copycat, mediocre graphics MMO with limited potential can become THE blockbuster if managed by competent people.

    Istaria is the blatant demonstration at how the best and still most potential TODAY of every MMO ever made can become the vastly under-estimated fall behind of all because in the past it has been in the hands of under-capitalized, shady management.


    WoW does its dirty job of being another Blizzard money wagon maker with no big pretense, you can clearly see expansion after expansion how they humbly COPIED others ideas (ie EQ and later Warhammer Online for achievements and more).

    WoW attracts the kind of wholesale idiots who make up for 99% of the world population, that's a design objective of WoW, not a design defect and does it admirably.

    I wish Istaria attracted 10k players. That would change things a lot and would finally give it a chance to express itself.

    Istaria is getting old without being given a chance to show off. Graphics are too obsolete, network code too unresponsive, mechanics too outdated, economy not existant. Yet in powerful hands it could have become a Great Game with 500k subs, something of the class of LOTRO.
    Istaria will be forever a true pain for me to recall, because I love it so much and now its current developers love it so much but I don't see a realistic way back to popularity and therefore to growth, funding etc.
    Words... of a poet. You, sir, speak for every gamer that ever played a game they love, only to see it die for so many of the wrong reasons and watch as a game they know is a mark of shame upon the world skyrocket into the heavens for all the wrong reasons. What has happened to Istaria is a travesty, just as what has happened to WoW is too a travesty on the gamers of this world that aren't mindless automatons that will accept the grey mush that is served to them in the form of a video game.

    ...Perhaps all is not lost though. I've always felt that, no matter how beaten down something can get, there's always a chance that it can stand again to continue the fight. I like to think I have that kind of willpower. I also like to think that others do to. Even though the "good guys" don't always win in real life, perhaps Istaria and Virtrium (or at least some future company that has the same dedication) can defy that stereotype and come back one day with a vengeance. Maybe it won't be 'this' Istaria, but a newer, better version, more up to date and known to the public. Not an "Istaria 2"--no, I don't want this game going the way of most evil sequels, that kill plot and ruin game play--but a remake. Like a phoenix from the ashes, "The New Istaria" or even reverting back to the original title "Horizons", as though a new dawn awoken upon the masses as realization hits:

    "This is the game. WoW? Suck it." They could put that on the cover of the disk case.
    Chaos: Gael Tycarren--Dragon
    "I just... want to remember."

  5. #25

    Default Re: WoW, This Game is Terrible

    Quote Originally Posted by Armameteus View Post
    All that money goes straight into the developers' pockets because, hey, it's a cash cow--all it's about is the money. I'm aware that everyone needs money to make a living, but it's the fact that such a huge sum of said money goes toward anything but the game that money came from.
    *shrug* I wouldn't be so sure that so much money goes into "anything but the game". Game servers aren't cheap to run, neither is it cheap to keep developers on staff. I work in IT - and believe me, I see first-hand how expensive it CAN be to keep just a simple brochure website running.

    I don't begrudge anyone earning a living, even if they're making more money than me.

    Admittedly, no, I can't. The only reason I brought it up is because I remember watching it on the news one day. They'd reiterated about it constantly for quite a while....
    But, no, I don't have anything I can actually cite. Then again, if you look something up on google, I'm sure you'd find it somewhere, eventually. Regardless of whether or not it's legit, hearing even rumors about something like that is enough to at least put me off of it.
    Fair enough; I don't put that much stock in rumour, and prefer to see actual evidence and proof. Anyone could be axe crazy - for all we know, there could be an axe-crazy member of this conversation. Some people might nominate me for that position seeing as I keep snakes, simply because "snake keepers are tattooed motorcycling weirdos". (I look like a librarian.)

    But I refuse to tar fellow gamers with the "some people who play X game might be axe crazy, therefore they're ALL axe crazy" brush.

    And the same goes for this comment too. Never said Istaria was perfect. Just said it was better. It still has these problems and after being told so many times in this thread, I'm well aware of that fact. Really, it's when people don't take the time to hear the whole story that they jump to conclusions like this. I've already said this. It's not perfect and I'm aware of that. There, I said it again.
    And I'm not arguing that Istaria is perfect - or that it's fundamentally flawed - I'm just saying that a number of things you've mentioned as being bad things about WoW may ALSO be bad things about Istaria.

    I'm not happy about the fact that, if I want to fight those bosses, I'll have to group up with people. I hate asking for help in MMOs (for good reason) and even with Istaria's community, it's practically hard-wired into me by now. You bug somebody online, nine times out of ten, they get hostile. That's just how it is on big MMOs. Istaria isn't like that, and that's great, but it doesn't mean I actually like to bug other people to help me. If I could, I would solo them. However, it's obviously not possible, given what you and many others have said over and over again. Do I think it's a flaw? Yes, I do.
    And, as I said - if you don't get out of that mindset with Istaria, you will find that there are bosses you CANNOT fight on your own and you MUST rely on the assistance of strangers - or friends you don't know yet, as I tend to think about 'em on Istaria at least. Even to progress your own character to ancienthood (and likely to progress your character to adulthood unless you're going to go for 80+ADV/80CRA hatchling).

    Why is it a flaw to ask players to hunt in packs, to help each other, and to provide content where if you refuse to hunt in a pack you can either try (and fail) or just not do that content? If you want a game that doesn't require multiple players, why play a multiplayer game?

    And, once again, as a result of not reading my responses to other people, I find myself repeating... myself.
    I read them. I am responding to what you have said in my own way - as I felt that MY responses to your points are different enough to the responses of others to your points that they were worth making.

    I compared it to real life in the sense that grouping up with other people easily is in fact non-existent. You can't just ask someone to be a friend and they'll say "sure". That's not how life works. However, in many MMOs, they force you to buddy-up with multiple people to combat a single challenge.
    I suppose I see things a bit differently - I have to ask total strangers for help, assistance or services every single day, and I get asked for help or services by total strangers every day too. The only difference for me is that in-game, it's not important if someone doesn't want to help me (or if I don't want to ask, or I don't want to help) because it's just a game. In real life, I have to obtain the help of others (or help others) and it DOES count and HAS to be done, no choice about it.

    Istaria is better than WoW because, at current, it's not like that at all. If I did ask for help, nine times out of ten, I can expect to either be accepted from the get-go or at the very least politely told that they're too busy. Which would you choose? The countless hoards of jerk-offs that call you some derogatory word for even asking? Or the Istarian community that, at the very worst, will tell you they're sorry that they can't help out? Kind of a no-brainer there.
    Which is fair enough - as I've said, I don't PLAY any other games, so I don't know how WoWers react to new players asking for help, and I don't really fancy trying WoW because they don't have the one thing I want to play if I'm playing an MMORPG. Until and unless there's another MMORPG with player dragons that does them as well as or better than Istaria, you won't get me on another MMORPG.

    You forgot your "[sarcasm]" "[/sarcasm]" tags.
    Probably because there was absolutely no sarcasm intended. I genuinely DO want to be able to play a dragon Healer or a dragon Scholar or a dragon Jeweller ... if I could program an MMORPG, it'd have nothing BUT nonhuman characters, all of whom could do a lot more than Istarian dragons can. Heck, if I could finance Istaria (and boy, I wish I had the disposable income to do so) I'd be asking them to introduce more schools to their "flagship" race.

    It's a different situation when the character you've chosen to play is deliberately shaped to be different from every other character in the game.
    Oddly enough, Caquix and Kesqui (and Malencontri, my ex-hubby's character, and my partner's original Atrinoch) both started playing on Istaria when it was still thought that there might be additional dragon classes added in like they had been in Beta (not just DADV and DCRA - LSH was added years later), that it might be possible to play as a pure crafter or pure adventurer (and ascend to adulthood)... and boy were all three of us shocked (the other two "fatally" as they stopped playing) when the ROP requirements were released.

    Two characters is not asking much.
    Other than asking me to play a creature I don't like playing, no, it's not asking much at all. I suppose I'm going with the stated policy on that one - "if I don't like the conditions that come with the content, I don't have to play that content." I don't like the conditions that come with being a Cleric or a Confectioner or an Alchemist... so I don't play one very often.

    Refer to me second response in this "response tree" (yeah, I still don't know what it's really called). Stop living in the past.
    *shrug* That's your choice - not to think about what could have been, not to think about what WAS. I am a player who played in 2003. I am a player who plays in 2009-2010. I remember both, and I remember why I bought the game (three copies of, remember) in the first place.

    The issues that plagued Horizons in the past are the reason the game is as it is now. I still can't play with my American friends.... because they stopped playing six years ago, when the game was still so borked that people were offended by the idea of playing a subscription-based Alpha release.

    It's far from perfect, and without personal experience of WoW I couldn't tell you whether WoW is bad or better. That said... they have an awful lot more players than Istaria-of-Today has.... the players can't all be insane.
    - Kesqui - Formerly of Ice, now of Chaos, lair in Liak
    First Rebirth 12-12-2003 / Ascended to Ancient 12-12-2010

  6. #26
    Member velveeta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    le palais du fromage and industrial complex, cliffside, shepherd's mountain, blight
    Posts
    5,075

    Default Re: WoW, This Game is Terrible

    i dislike wow. i would dislike it even if horizons did not exist.
    but i dislike wow because it doesn't suit me.
    it's a lovely looking game, and it must be doing something right to be so popular.

    i have played wow, and altho it is not for me, i have no prob seeing how it would be a great game for those who like that sort of thing.

    in the same way that d&d online, rubies of eventide, ryzom, flyff, or any other game you can name is not my cup of tea, wow is a terrible game to me, but that is because i am a console/pc gamer, not an mmorpg player - now that snake got me a copy of fallout: new vegas, i am not sure how much istaria will see me for the next few days or weeks (altho i need to make a concerted effort to be on, if i am ever to get the industrial complex done)......

    if you don't like wow, that's kewl with me, but many peeps here do play both, and i feel they have a valid and most important accurate viewpoint.
    so i listen to them with particular attention, even tho nothing i have heard so far is changing my opinion of wow....

    altho i wouldn't mind being hit with a mohawk grenade....
    you can't cast a play in hell and expect angels as actors
    check out my game blog: https://velveeta3.livejournal.com/

  7. #27

    Default Re: WoW, This Game is Terrible

    Quote Originally Posted by Vahrokh View Post



    I wish Istaria attracted 10k players. That would change things a lot and would finally give it a chance to express itself.

    Istaria is getting old without being given a chance to show off. Graphics are too obsolete, network code too unresponsive, mechanics too outdated, economy not existant. Yet in powerful hands it could have become a Great Game with 500k subs, something of the class of LOTRO.
    I agree with all you`ve said in this post, Vah.
    But not with what I quote:

    Istaria IS a niche- game. This is one of its fortitudes
    (besides the facts we all know: craft, drags , multi-class aso).
    With a special clientele.
    With a special community which has another structure like most other mmorpgs.

    We should make a fact finding soon to prove this.
    It could help to find out how and where to attract more/new players that fit in that concept and fit into our community.

    Do you really think Istaria could bear at least 10k new players?
    Not sure about this. Surely not if they come from WoW.

    In my eyes we need to make selective advertising to reach our target group.
    Then the population will grow of its own volition.
    YOU told me to play a dragon!

  8. #28

    Default Re: WoW, This Game is Terrible

    RE: Lov:

    Istaria is a game that I enjoy, probably purely because you can play a dragon and maybe the ability to build housing. And yes, I'd like to see the game expand, improve, its playerbase expand, etc, but as far as advertising, the problem with Istaria, is that it is so aged, and there's so much left undone that you can just see such things from the moment you log into the game for the very first time.

    The VI team has been hard at work in patching up some of this stuff, but to be honest, they're trying to clear a mountain with shovels.

    Don't get me wrong, I do like Istaria, but it simply doesn't give a lot of things that players expect upon trying a "new" (to them) game. They've played many of the other well-polished games on the market, and then they see an advert for this game (or they hear of it by word-of-mouth) and then they try it and they see the unfinished game that has existed for years and I can't frankly blame them for being discouraged.

    Not to mention, how one progresses their character is lacking in variety. Kill mobs... kill some more mobs, kill many many many more mobs. They added some quests in the T1-T2 areas, but you have to look around to find them and oftentimes, you are given quests that are NOT meant to be done solo at that level (like the NT quests that involve the blighted area on the far north of the island). Given that there's not many players around, trying to get someone appropriate level to fight alongside, well.... good luck.

    Crafting side, not much variety here. Equip a pickaxe/tree axe/harvest knife, target a node and click the gather key. Rinse, Repeat (starting out at only picking 1 per and needing 100+ before your bag fills up..... ugh) for several hours, stopping only when your bags are full, drag your stuff over to the machine and make/deconstruct items, Rinse Repeat until near-infinity. That gets boring after awhile.

    That's the main thing I think Istaria needs -- more Variety. Newer games (not JUST WoW, other games too) have you doing quests upon quests upon quests. You're asked to go out and kill some wolves for meat. Do that, then someone else wants you to go kill kobolds. Do that, then they ask you to kill some of those pesky bandits that have been raiding the area. Do that, then they ask for the bandit leader after you've softened up some of their numbers. Oh, while you're at it, go collect some buckets of grapes while you're out there killing those bandits and their leader. It has Variety. You're not parking it in one spot and killing the same mob for several hours to gain a few levels (or trophy hunting, which is even worse).

    Even with Linked Spawns, instead of parking it in ONE spot, you're forced to travel between two linked areas. You just add some annoying travel time to the mix, to make it take longer. Still the same mob, still the same drill hundreds of times over. And the problem of it is, said linked spawns aren't really intuitive -- you can sometimes search far and wide before you actually find the dang thing (it took me hours to figure out where the heck the stupid linked platinum fields were in Dralk, turns out the linked field is clear across the dralk area, some hundreds of meters away).

    So... in closing.... Istaria has a cool concept, and has unique elements not found in any other game. The problem is, there's a lot of unfinished/buggy/incomplete content, and it is far, far too grindy to stand up in today's MMORPG markets. It survives because of a handful several loyal fans who don't mind extreme repetition grinds. However, said people seem to be a minority, and a lot of newer people who try it, end up getting bored creating the 100,000th bronze bar in a row, or killing the 500th golem in a row.

  9. #29

    Default Re: WoW, This Game is Terrible

    While I'm certainly no fan of WOW I don't see the need to be flaming it either, game certainly doesn't suit me but seems to suit plenty of people so I'd say my opinion is certainly a minority one.

    WOW certainly has done Istaria no harm though, if anything considering it itself has turned a couple hundred thousand customer industry into a multi million customer industry, they've aided the cause. When you look at how small a piece of the pie any one game not called WOW wants or needs WOW so drastically expanding the market can't be bad.

    WOW may have forced existing games to make themselves easier, that is not even arguable to me, I lived through it in EQ and EQ2 when their market share was decimated by WOW and I honestly now feel I'm reliving it here with recent and upcoming changes. Obviously from plenty of ingame and conversations here opinions on whether that is good or bad varies person to person and then even some change to change.

    Istaria lost most of its population due to incomplete game mechanics at release, multiple bad direction ownership changes, and to this day BUGS....BUGS and some more... you guesed it BUGS. Will changing the game mechanics to have Istaria play easy and faster improve the population, maybe , but the BUGS have always been and will continue to be Istarias biggest population determiner.
    Last edited by Teto Frum; November 16th, 2010 at 02:08 PM. Reason: spelling

  10. #30

    Default Re: WoW, This Game is Terrible

    Dhalin,
    there are folks outside who do not mind that Istaria is outdated in some ways
    folks who hate to be hounded from quest to quest
    folks who love to live a life in peace ..and crafting
    folks who love it a bit more slowly and a bit more silent.
    folks who like it to solve the riddles of how to develop a char in Istaria.
    aso.
    That is why we have to look for our certain target group.
    We cannot change Istaria to WoW standarts (tech)
    but we can attract players that fit into our world.
    YOU told me to play a dragon!

  11. #31

    Default Re: WoW, This Game is Terrible

    and it is far, far too grindy to stand up in today's MMORPG markets. It survives because of a handful several loyal fans who don't mind extreme repetition grinds. However, said people seem to be a minority, and a lot of newer people who try it, end up getting bored creating the 100,000th bronze bar in a row, or killing the 500th golem in a row.
    Wait... what? Name a game that is not a grind at some point or another? I'm curious if there is one. Maybe it's because I was raised on consoles where you were rewarded for grinding, but I've yet to see a game that doesn't have you make 500k of something to get to 100 or whatever.

  12. #32

    Default Re: WoW, This Game is Terrible

    Saying Istaria doesn't have quests is actually a long-standing myth. When the game launched there weren't many quests, but since 2006 its been something we've worked hard to correct. There are now almost 500 quests in Tiers 1 and 2 alone, around 200 at Tier 5, about 100 at Tier 6 and fewer in-between. And they lead you from location to location just like in bigger MMOs as well as providing a variety of things to do (not just killing).

    Yes, we still have work to do. But to say there aren't any and you have to just stand around and kill monsters in the same field and there isn't variety is actually completely incorrect at some parts of the game.
    "Alea iacta est" -- Julius Caesar

    Toot shouted, voice shrill, "In the name of the Pizza Lord! Charge!" (Jim Butcher's Dresden Files)

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will spends it whole life believing that it is stupid." -- Albert Einstein

  13. #33

    Default Re: WoW, This Game is Terrible

    Ill agree with Amon and certainly give VI full props on what they've done with the quests since taking over. Plus I'll add unlike preVI what Istaria lacks in quantity of quests they make up for in quality of quests. I think though all but the middle tiers Istarias quest lines are enough. Unfortunately those are the most unrewarding and boring tiers to get through in any game , the excitement of starting out is gone, the thrill of being top end is far off still. The revamps of the middle tier is of the utmost importance to holding customers, especially with how much it contrasts now from the redone ones, hard to sell new players on patience like vets, this current top end over haul going on shouldve been left untill after the t3 and t4 revamps were live.

  14. #34

    Default Re: WoW, This Game is Terrible

    Quote Originally Posted by AmonGwareth View Post
    Yes, we still have work to do. But to say there aren't any and you have to just stand around and kill monsters in the same field and there isn't variety is actually completely incorrect at some parts of the game.
    Could we please please please have the Imperial Resource Parcels quests back? Those quartermasters look mighty lonely these days....

    I love Istaria - it's the only game that caters to my particular gaming niche. Doesn't mean I don't wish things were done a little differently!
    - Kesqui - Formerly of Ice, now of Chaos, lair in Liak
    First Rebirth 12-12-2003 / Ascended to Ancient 12-12-2010

  15. #35

    Default Re: WoW, This Game is Terrible

    When a friend convinced me to get into Horizons (he had it pre-ordered and it was just about to come out), I thought the same thing: Why should I have to pay for the game and then also pay a monthly fee? This is from a player who played quake 3 and call of duty multiplayer games online alot. I didn't have to pay a monthly fee for those?

    But mmo's have new monthly events, seasonal events (typically), and so I decided to give it a try. Considering the expense of developing an mmo (Horizons was at 18 million $ when Ataria freaked out due to the cost and rushed it to market prematurely. Oh if they had only had just the tiniest bit of vision, spent a couple more million, and finished it up properly first...) and then the follow up cost of maintaining it, I don't hold it against them to both charge up front and then the monthly sub as well. But I do think free-trial periods are a great idea

    As far as the people being jerks in wow, well there is some of that. Luckily when someone kills you pvp, your gear doesn't take damage like when it does fighting against monsters. So it doesn't cost anything other than time to run back out and annoyance. But there's plenty of good people there too. If you are in a decent guild with friends it can be much better. The pvp part is optional, there are PvE only servers in wow (where all players are of the same faction) which is probably more similiar to Horizons.

    Even Horizons has had its' share of jerks.

    I played wow for 10 months in late 2006 to summer 2007, got to level 70, and then got sick of the rep grind and the scheduled raids where you HAD to be there. I mean, I can understand that because it can be such an undertaking that it requires everyones participation, and when key players don't show up the whole group could be sol. But it started to lose the "fun" at that point and was too much like a job.

    Horizons first year was full of fun community events, and was awesome. In between events it's something of a "make your own fun" kind of game, in which I found many ways to stay occupied. It really does help to have friends to play with and group with, or you can get bored. When that happens you take a break.
    Last edited by Guaran; November 16th, 2010 at 04:34 PM.

  16. #36

    Default Re: WoW, This Game is Terrible

    Quote Originally Posted by AmonGwareth View Post
    Saying Istaria doesn't have quests is actually a long-standing myth. When the game launched there weren't many quests, but since 2006 its been something we've worked hard to correct. There are now almost 500 quests in Tiers 1 and 2 alone, around 200 at Tier 5, about 100 at Tier 6 and fewer in-between. And they lead you from location to location just like in bigger MMOs as well as providing a variety of things to do (not just killing).

    Yes, we still have work to do. But to say there aren't any and you have to just stand around and kill monsters in the same field and there isn't variety is actually completely incorrect at some parts of the game.
    My apologies, I could have worded what I said a little better.

    Yes, Tiers 1 and 2 have made leaps and bounds of progress, and there are quests to be had, but I did discover that some quests do not appear solo-friendly (like, for example, the Defender of NT quest) in a game that is at times sparsely populated.

    What I really meant was, that in my current tiers of play (Tier3 for my biped; Late T4-Early T5 for my dragon), there are few quests and it really is "kill stuff" for XP. Tier1 and Tier2 are all done up nice, sure, but when you hit T3, the quests just... stop. There's a few here and there, but unless you're a dragon... there isn't much to _do_ at T3, though I do understand it takes time to develop this stuff.

    I'm trying to be patient; hopefully some more T3 quests are released within the next year, is my thoughts. Then maybe I can get some decent quest XP to get past this roadblock I seemed to have hit on my biped.

    I still have plans on trying out a couple more methods yet, but they both rely on the "kill thousands of mobs" strategy that I've been employing for the longest time now.

  17. #37

    Default Re: WoW, This Game is Terrible

    Given that everyone else has said everything much better than I could have.
    I only have one thing to add on the subject of people being murdered over WoW.
    9 times out of 10 this is a myth.
    As a vetran mmo-er of nearly 11 years I have heard this same thing in nearly every mmo I've ever played, and while it could happen, especialy in larger population games, its normaly made up by a person who either has a vendeta against the game/its players or the same folks that say Dungeons and Dragons leads to satanisim.

    I remember back in EQ there was a rash of stories about people commiting suicide over the game. Of all the stories only one had any grain of truth to it. As I recall, in that story, the guy was severly mentally ill and had gone off his meds. His family and friends appearently knew of this but chose to just sit by and do nothing, until he finaly lost it.

    I've played WoW and I've enjoyed it, its ease of play is a nice break sometimes from the gridiness of Istaria. The player base certainly leaves something to be desired. But as with anygame - even istaria - finding the right people to hang out with helps alot.

  18. #38
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Dralk and in my lair, where else?
    Posts
    2,029

    Default Re: WoW, This Game is Terrible

    Do you really think Istaria could bear at least 10k new players?
    At launch Istaria had a target of about 30k players (before WoW, these were the numbers to consider a MMO as succesful).
    IIRC the first month it actually achieved that amount, I was here to see ultra-dense sandstone crops both at all the starter islands plus Chiconis being ALL depleted because they had 1-3 hatchies each.

    Then the constant crashes (servers included) and the myriad of bugs, plus the lack of real content besides pure grinding would quickly kill the player base to 5k subscriptions. That number kept more or less steady for a good time.



    Saying Istaria doesn't have quests is actually a long-standing myth. When the game launched there weren't many quests, but since 2006 its been something we've worked hard to correct. There are now almost 500 quests in Tiers 1 and 2 alone, around 200 at Tier 5, about 100 at Tier 6 and fewer in-between. And they lead you from location to location just like in bigger MMOs as well as providing a variety of things to do (not just killing).
    Having played most of the old and new MMOs, I see where some other players come from.

    I was in WoW beta and at day zero, both in PvP and ropeplay servers. There were 2,000 quests in 2005 which rapidly grew to beyond 8000 by the time I quit. The game was structured as regions where players would have 1-3 "main questlines" that would basically teach the player all the needed lore. Other multi-step quests would introduce the player to the local region lore and eventually give a quest to do in an instance. Finally there would be mundane grind quests to pad levels up.
    The player would have a drive, a direction (some criticize this of course as "too much direction") to roam the territory and learn it.

    Some of those multi-step quests were jewels of game design with original and enticing mechanics to deal with them (ie transforming in a pirate, grouping with some NPCs against scripted waves of mobs, being shot in air over hills...).

    Most of all, players would SEE when NPCs had an available quest (symbol on map, ! sign on head). Later on, some other MMOs would copy this very system and make it even easier, when I played WH the NPCs would have actual arrows pointing people where to go to do the quests.

    Now, I always found this lack of NPCs quest indicators to be a crippling problem for Istaria.
    They don't show as icon on the map, which is fine because Amon said he wants to game to be so.

    What's not fine is that NPCs (and the ! on their head of course) don't spawn and show up until you are smack on their face.
    This totally confuses a new player, it even confuses me when I go attune to portals and the attunement NPC just won't appear till I randomly walk on his face (tried on multiple computers, multiple OS, multiple net connections).

    Therefore, Istaria might have many quests, they just won't show up as soon as the NPCs with them are not the obvious ones in the center of the town but are i.e. one along a road (that will NEVER appear if you don't walk on him).
    Vahrokh Vain - Ancient dragon level 100 adv 100 craft 34M of untainted, fireworks and other crap free hoard.
    Isarion - Reaver Healer Spiritist, many craft classes.

  19. #39

    Default Re: WoW, This Game is Terrible

    Now, I always found this lack of NPCs quest indicators to be a crippling problem for Istaria.
    They don't show as icon on the map, which is fine because Amon said he wants to game to be so.

    What's not fine is that NPCs (and the ! on their head of course) don't spawn and show up until you are smack on their face.
    This totally confuses a new player, it even confuses me when I go attune to portals and the attunement NPC just won't appear till I randomly walk on his face (tried on multiple computers, multiple OS, multiple net connections).

    Therefore, Istaria might have many quests, they just won't show up as soon as the NPCs with them are not the obvious ones in the center of the town but are i.e. one along a road (that will NEVER appear if you don't walk on him).
    #1: I would be happy having _A_ minimap. The only way to get a "Minimap" is to open a map window, and size it small, drag it to the corner of the screen, but it has this HUGE ugly border around it that covers way too much screen area to really make it an effective minimap. I forced myself to get used to it, but it is still a clunky and kludgy solution to something that is in nearly every other MMORPG out there.

    #2: The "!" sometimes doesn't even spawn for me at all. When it does, it is this REALLY SMALL ICON that you can't even see even when you are standing beside them. Sometimes it is off screen if the person is, say, a half-giant and you're a Saris. To get close enough for the thing to pop, you have to be standing right beside them, but sometimes, their head is nearly off-screen when you stand that close depending on how far in you have the camera zoomed. Oh, and half-giants indoors? Yeah, you're not going to see the thing above their heads.

    Oh, and.... half of the time you go to "greet" someone (I wish I could just single right-click instead of having to target and THEN push a button or right click for a menu even when the NPC only has one function...), sometimes nothing at all happens for 10+ seconds and just when I think the NPC doesn't do anything but wave at me, I walk away... then this huge box appears out of nowhere.... uh.

    Then, sometimes, you see links and click them..... nothing. Wait.....wait.....wait.... close window, greet, try it again.... maybe this time it will actually work. NPC has several quests? Good Luck trying to click any of those individual links; they are far far far too close together. Half of the time I try to click one, I click the wrong one or I waste far too much time trying to move the mouse cursor 1 or 2 pixels so I don't click the wrong link (some reason we can't have a blank space between each link?). I mean, it is literally like this:

    Quest 1
    Quest2
    ThisQuest1
    Quest3
    ThisQuest2
    In a really small font (make the font bigger and the box is too small to read what's in it!). Some reason we couldn't do this?


    Quest 1

    Quest2

    ThisQuest1

    Quest3

    ThisQuest2
    Some reason we couldn't do it like that?

  20. #40

    Default Re: WoW, This Game is Terrible

    By the way Vahrokh, I saw this as I was scrolling up to close the window (getting ready to play WoW, lol):

    WoW does not suck.
    WoW is the blatant demonstration at how a copycat, mediocre graphics MMO with limited potential can become THE blockbuster if managed by competent people.
    In a patch released a couple weeks ago, they very radically updated the graphics. The Water effects are particularly amazing and I haven't seen that kind of thing in any MMO game. Oh, and my weakest computer continues to run WoW smoother than it does Istaria, even though it is 3-4 years old and barely meets the minimum requirements to even run WoW at its lowest settings.

    Edit: Here are two images:

    http://dragonsguild.hypermart.net/flyingoverwater.jpg

    This shows some of the water effects as seen while flying over water. Note the partially-submerged dock just to the left of the flying ghost-horse (which has corporeal armor, but a non-corporeal body and it leaves off little sparkles too!) and waaay in the distance, that green guy fighting that short brown guy to the left.

    Also note that the game's JPG compression routine isn't optimal -- it looks a bit better on screen than it does on JPG. Wish it had direct dump with no compression so I could use a *real* graphics editing software to compress it better, but oh well.

    http://dragonsguild.hypermart.net/fwaterripples.jpg

    Note the ripples (its part of the file name!) around the character's feet. Yes, moving in shallow water DOES cause ripples! Also note the sunlight upon water effect. It is done very realistically and nicely. The only small beef, is that ghosts floating above water creates ripples too, but maybe they cause air to ripple around them (those "ghosts" are actually steam elementals). Also note the water distortion of the guy's robes that are submerged, the view of them is distorted as you're looking through the water like what you saw with the dock in the first screenshot.

    "Mediocre Graphics"?

    I think not.
    Last edited by Dhalin; November 17th, 2010 at 11:25 AM.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •