Dragons without wings

[meepsa]

I've been trying to make a mod where the wings of the dragons wont load, but so far I have no luck, I know that I have to edit .def files (the one I tried to edit was "dragona_u_geo_wings01_n"), but yeah, no result so far

I've also tried to edit the flapping animation of the dragons ("dragona_u_track_flightflap" im guessing), but I think I found out how to do that (edit float maxDist...could be wrong here, so if I am, someone please correct me)

anyhow, if anyone knows how to do this please help me out lol.

oh btw, if it doesnt load the head too (somehow I think these 2 are linked, due to the dragon ghost mobs near chic appearing without wings AND heads the first time they were put in) I guess thats where I decide not to do it

[Solitaire]

The heads and wings are not linked. But the wings and dorsal fins are. You can get rid of the wings but it would leave gaping holes on the body where they were attached. The resulting appearance would not be pretty.

[Raptress]

I've also tried to edit the flapping animation of the dragons ("dragona_u_track_flightflap" im guessing), but I think I found out how to do that (edit float maxDist...could be wrong here, so if I am, someone please correct me)

I'm pretty sure the track files are related to sounds. If you're talking about changing the rate at which the dragon flaps, that's been done in this thread.

[Firebrand]

I'm pretty sure the track files are related to sounds.

Right, track files associate animations to their sound effects and set how the sound effects have to be played.

[meepsa]

Thanks for the quick replies everyone!

*facepalms* should've known the track files were for the sounds...guess I kinda forgot the logic after having been away for roughly a week

The heads and wings are not linked. But the wings and dorsal fins are. You can get rid of the wings but it would leave gaping holes on the body where they were attached. The resulting appearance would not be pretty.

hmm, that doesnt sound pretty at all, but still I'd like to see it (making this for a friend who was wondering what dragons would look like then, so she could switch it on and off if she liked it), so could you please put something like a tutorial up here? *hatchling eyes*

[Solitaire]

I don't have much time to research it and test things out right now because I'm in the beginning stages of moving from Wisconsin to Florida. But most likely what you would need to do is just comment out the line "string itemName = dragon_u_geo_wings01_n.def" in the dragon(a)(j)_u_char.def file. Comment out the { and } before and after it too. This is a best guess by taking a quick look at the def file. It might or might not work.

// is what the client uses for a comment.

FYI the "dragonj"is hatchling (j stands for juvenile). "dragon" is adult. And "dragona" is ancient. Make sure you are modding the correct file.

[Guaran]

This would be an abomination and must not be persued!

Wingless dragon sea monsters are ok tho.

[Solitaire]

This would be an abomination and must not be persued!

Actually, I was kicking this around as a monster idea a while back. A race of dragons that were cursed by Drulkar for defying him. Never got very far with it, though.

[Nayuaka]

Actually, I was kicking this around as a monster idea a while back. A race of dragons that were cursed by Drulkar for defying him. Never got very far with it, though.

I really like this idea, and the fun lore that would result from it.

[Armameteus]

I agree. This could add a whole new layer to dragon lore, all about what they did to displease him, possibly acting as a sort of backing to the beliefs of either faction. Colourful dragonic insults could arise (something like "naka duskael" (sp?) but of another word translating loosely to "wingless" or some such)
"The followers of Helion are naught but *insert dragonic equivalent to "wingless" here* betreyers of our Lord Drulkar."
...Er something like that.

The idea of 'water dragons' without wings, but perhaps an equivalent of swimming prowess (because there is a fair bit of water in Istaria) could prove rather interesting. No race can technically swim at current, so introducing one that could (to a race that is already unique no less) might act as an even greater incentive to play a dragon, whether you want to fly or swim.

Of course swimming physics would have to be made a bit more advanced than slowing the character and triggering a 'drown timer' to start ticking down, wouldn't it? Hm... =\

And, of course, if both happened to be implemented, the two would have to be obviously distinguishable between each other, rather than just having an absence of wings. Maybe make the cursed ones really... ugly or something too?

[Raptress]

Solitaire was talking about water dragons as a monster, not a playable race. :P The devs said a while back not to expect any new player races anytime soon if ever and adding swimming to the mix.. well. I don't think it'd ever happen.

I like the idea of them as monsters though. Makes more sense anyway; what self-respecting dragon would want to be friends with a fallen race of dragons that defied their god?

[Armameteus]

Solitaire was talking about water dragons as a monster, not a playable race. :P The devs said a while back not to expect any new player races anytime soon if ever and adding swimming to the mix.. well. I don't think it'd ever happen.

I like the idea of them as monsters though. Makes more sense anyway; what self-respecting dragon would want to be friends with a fallen race of dragons that defied their god?

That's what I meant though; water dragons would be a separate race within dragon society, but still under the 'acceptance' of winged dragons, just trying to live life and follow their convictions, while some help the war effort. The cursed ones would be evil, monstrous, psychotic, perhaps ugly, maybe even lacking in certain abilities that normal dragons have (having breath attacks, flying obviously, primal abilities, etc.) whilst water dragons would be... well, the opposite. A cursed one would be easily distinguishable from other dragons and of course hell-bent on destroying everything that Drulkar stands for, that being pretty much every other dragon in existence.

A shame that they wouldn't even consider the idea though. I mean, I know that if it's not completely outside of the game's ability, it would still be a huge amount of work, but it's kind of depressing if it's just glanced over. Other races have been introduced before as well as other major changes, from what I've heard. To be told outright, even though most people still say you should always give out ideas anyway and even in light of the achievements of the past, that any really major suggestion (not just about new races, but any large change/add-on/fix in general) is simply never going to happen, period, is... a bit disheartening.

*sigh* But this is tipping dangerously close to the point of wavering confidence. Forget I said anything.

[Raptress]

It looks like you're talking about two separate things, when the water dragons that Solitaire mentioned are the cursed dragons, not a separate thing from them. He was saying they were water dragons because they were cursed.

Also, I didn't say point-blank "it will never happen." I said I personally am of the opinion that it will not happen. I'm not a dev. I don't know. :P

The thing about the playable races and the massive events like freeing Feledan from the blight was that Istaria had a much bigger team back then. All that stuff happened before AE had to file for chapter 11. Huge stuff like that just isn't as possible now when the team is small.

[Armameteus]

Yeah, I was sort of implying two different things on purpose; one race being hideous, evil monster versions of dragons and another being a new playable race. Two birds with one suggestion, I suppose. I mean, if they went out of the way to make mobs like that, why not go the whole nine yards and use a similar type of skeleton to create a new sub-species of the traditional dragon? They could probably do some interesting stuff if they implemented the ability to swim. (*cough*underwatercities*cough*)

And, sorry, I wasn't meaning to imply that you were a dev or knew everything or any of that. Just sort of the fact of the matter, because I have seen suggestions that have gotten glanced over or completely shot down on purpose (not just a "we don't want to bother considering it", but a full-on "we're not going to do it because we don't want to and no amount of begging of pleading from any number of players is going to change our minds. Deal with it." kind of thing). That's really what I was talking about. When we're given nothing apart from a "we don't want to" reasoning for not considering a suggestion, rather than a reasonable, thought-out statement for why it can't be done or why it would mess up the game or something. Again, sorry, I didn't meant to make it sound like I was getting up in arms at you specifically.

Also, yeah, I know that the team is sort of small and doing that kind of thing would take a lot of time and effort. But, then again, like I said above, if they did actually go through with making a brand new mob (meaning a new skeleton, new skins, probably new sound effects, lots of programming in respect to things I couldn't even begin to understand with my limited knowledge of computer... stuff, etc), with a brand new plethora of lore to accompany them, possibly with new abilities we've not seen before, etc... Well, yeah, it seems like a lot to go through, especially if it would only take a few tweaks to turn a monstrous demon into another wonderful species of dragon. Even if swimming wasn't programmed in, they could at least let them breathe underwater and not have movement hindered or something; it would result in essentially the same desired effect.

[Shian]

This was considered a new mob:
http://community.istaria.com/gallery/pic.php?id=956
Now look at the date. Combined with the statement to not be looking for new mobs anytime soon implies that making new mobs is too slow to be worth it.

Especially using something as broken as the dragon skeleton.

[meepsa]

This was considered a new mob:
http://community.istaria.com/gallery/pic.php?id=956
Now look at the date. Combined with the statement to not be looking for new mobs anytime soon implies that making new mobs is too slow to be worth it.

Especially using something as broken as the dragon skeleton.

isnt that the thing thats coming in with Helian's Tomb or something?

but yeah, getting new mobs in is propably going to take a while, though I do like the idea of wingless dragons as "cursed/exiled" dragons.

[Solitaire]

The Azular will be part of Helian's Tomb.

Totally new monsters are a little time consuming but not prohibitive. In fact, there are a couple of new ones in the pipe at various stages of concept or completion. New player races I'm going to estimate will take at least 50 times the amount of work to create compared to monsters. With a monster, you create a model and skeleton, a texture to go on it and about 30 animations. With player races there are many many times the number of assets to create in models, textures and animations. If it is a non-bipedal race that uses tools, weapons and clothing/armor then we would need to create a whole new set of assets for those. And this is just on the art side. They also have to be designed and balanced on the server side. It is a huge amount of work.

We are not developing a version of the Wingless or "Da Al'rua" (if I have the Eilert Erdoten translation correct) at the present time though I do poke at the concept from time to time. I have written up a bit of lore for them but I must stress that this is entirely a personal idea at this point. There is no official development going on.

[Frith-Rae]

When we're given nothing apart from a "we don't want to" reasoning for not considering a suggestion, rather than a reasonable, thought-out statement for why it can't be done or why it would mess up the game or something.

Welcome to MMORPGs! =D

Seriously, If you get explanations (that are actually real and not fluff) consider yourself blessed. IStaria devs are better than most (though not the best IMO) devs with offering explanations, but they aren't perfect.

No group is .

And yea it frustrates me too, but its unfortunately par for the course..

[Romirez]

Dragons without wings

absolute blasphemy. :|



(i never heard of anyone even trying this. BTW)

[Clearbrooke]

absolute blasphemy. :|



(i never heard of anyone even trying this. BTW)

I wouldn't say Blasphemy... Look at Chinese dragons... They don't have wings!

Its a different style of dragons some like... Some don't... Western have wings, Wyverns have two legs with wings BEING their second set of legs (Personally my least favorite of the dragons, but they're still mythology.. I love Penguins and they look funky!!) Chinese are dragons that fly using the magic given to them by the 'gods' or whatnot, I don't know exact legends of them.. but I know I <3 how they fly *circles!!!*

now if Meeps is talking about just a grounded dragon like a Lizard or something.. Then yes, thats a lil degrading to dragons.. Thats a monster not an intelligent and magical creature or in Istaria's case, godlike...


Now what would look nice, is either a Chinese styled dragon (Which No thats not possible from a mod, that'd be stretching the dragon textures and body structure into a COMPLETELY different creature altogether) or simply a dragon that runs in the air or has sparklies behind it, then you have the complaints as you did the dryads 'Too much lag!!' Though I personally say screw the lag, its proof of magic in the dragon get over it, and turn the graphics down I have however, and I know others have too, seen my dragon bug out and not have wings (Instead graphical holes where wings should be..) that you might could tweak that bug and make a mod out of it... simply covering the holes with texture... But you'd have to take into consideration the missing head that tends to go along with the wings



Just a lil bit from someone who knows a bit of Dragon Mythology... and slightly agreeing with Meepsa... dragons are a species of their own, having from little cat-sized dragons that fly, all the way to the Chinese that're hundreds of feet long with no wings! None should be exiled or criticized because of their appearance or lack thereof... They are what they are ^.^ and should be respected as who and what they are