Roleplay

[LungTien Temeraire]

I think the point was that there's no need to be naming names here. Stuff like that never ends well, no matter the intentions.

Well, in this case, I'm sorry. I consider Hraefn as a nice and experienced roleplayer, whether she has fur or not... I wasn't meaning to start a new issue about it.

Well, sure, it's all subjective, and there will always be people who will RP whatever they like regardless of what anyone else thinks. I cannot and will not say that people are not allowed to RP a "giant flying hamster." But I definitely will say that I won't be involved with that RP, and that others may say the same thing.

Indeed, if one doesn't even try to listen to anyone else and keeps doing as he wants and being rude, that is rather bad, and the ignore button is there.

Yes, the reality of a fantasy world is subjective, but if you want a character to be accepted outside of a small group of friends, then it really ought to at least attempt to tie itself to game lore.

Sure, and as I said, as long as a large group of roleplayers agree to interact and roleplay with one, then it is all right

About the manner to interact with new players, I think I have rarely got issues. I usually starts with a greeting, and then I ask them if they know how the larger part of roleplayers are roleplaying. Maybe the larger parts of new players, indeed, doesn't know the rules, nor the difference between IC and OoC, nor why they should use brackets when there is a roleplay around.

If they don't, I explain them how the elder roleplayers do. I also consider, except in a roleplay channel or when some are already roleplaying nearly. About being an elder, I think only mutual respect between players (whether they are experienced or new) can work.
About having a title, this one should be explained at the beginnning of the interaction, as I believe there are a few chances that the new player could know it and its true meanings.
Again, this is a matter of how the new player is,

[Raptress]

Well, in this case, I'm sorry. I consider Hraefn as a nice and experienced roleplayer, whether she has fur or not... I wasn't meaning to start a new issue about it.

Oh, I know you weren't! I was just pointing out why that post got the reaction it did. It's alright. :3

[Eelime]

This is a chatlog and an example of how this whole situation started, I was there that day. Since we are to the point where you, Eelime, seem to want to absolutely -insist- that the people who try to help and where there that day are in the wrong and why the argument branched out as it did. This is a snip of it. **'s are to avoid naming anyone.

** says, '<!--color r=.3 g=.3 b=1.0> hello'
** says, 'hello '
** says, 'hello'
** says, '<!--color R=0.5 g=0.3 b=0.1> ((Please use brackets guys.))'
** says, '( gee srry)'
** says, '(sorry, i am ever in role play, i am sorry you do like it)'
** says, '<!--color r=.3 g=.3 b=1.0> (i was simply saying hello "gives a shrug and then wanders off '
** says, '(yes, and it was rp'
** says, ')'
** says, '<!--color R=0.5 g=0.3 b=0.1> ((Don't take offense, it was a simple reminder >.>))'
** says, '(V_V k)'
** says, '<!--color R=0.5 g=0.3 b=0.1> ((But in RP you usually don't use 's and stuff.))'
** says, '<!--color r=.0 b=.0 g=.9> (( Incorrect reminder so an appoligy would be appropiate ))'
** says, '(well.......i am experienced in role play.....i ll stay on it )'
** says, '<!--color r=.0 b=.0 g=.9> (( It's a textual interface, whats wrong with enhancing it with facial expressions? ))'
** says, '<!--color R=0.5 g=0.3 b=0.1> ((Excuse me? No, I am not appologizing for reminding someone of the rules))'
** says, '<!--color R=0.5 g=0.3 b=0.1> ((You can type out a description easily to smile at someone, not use a smily or something of that sort, **.))'

The conversation gradually degraded into an argument at this point.

As I said, we really do try and help the newbies, but when others jump at the people who where asking nicely to refrain from using stuff such as smilies in RP. Then you have a problem, you can see they even attempted to point out the mistake and help.

** says, '<!--color R=0.5 g=0.3 b=0.1> ((Excuse me? No, I am not appologizing for reminding someone of the rules))'
** says, '<!--color R=0.5 g=0.3 b=0.1> ((You can type out a description easily to smile at someone, not use a smily or something of that sort, **.))'

Is where it took a large down turn. Sure, ** said that you were wrong and said you should apologize, but saying, "** says, '<!--color R=0.5 g=0.3 b=0.1> ((Excuse me? No, I am not appologizing for reminding someone of the rules))'
** says, '<!--color R=0.5 g=0.3 b=0.1> ((You can type out a description easily to smile at someone, not use a smily or something of that sort, **.))'" in return doesn't help anyone.

A simple. "I'm sorry, I was just reminding them of the rules and did not mean to offend in anyway" and "Though it is easier to use smily's, it's more encouraged (on this server) to type out a description of smiling instead."

Would have saved everyone a long drawn out argument with hurt feelings.

Humans are very odd creatures. Logically, in the above situation, you were the correct one, and shouldn't have the apologize or anything. But, unfortunately, humans have feelings; pride, etc.. that can be "hurt".

To me, it's a lot easier to try and please the other party, while also keeping my ground on the matter (by apologizing, yet saying that you were right in the matter) than to tell them that they were wrong and that you wouldn't apologize, so that an argument can be averted. And, if they persist, maybe try once more, but if it continues after that, try to drop the subject if you can.

I understand that some people find it hard to do what I said above, but like I said; most of Order are older, or if not are usually quite mature, and so have the experience, or should, to know it's a lot better to let someone else feel like they were right and try to avoid an argument than to make it so you feel right and greatly increase the chance of argument.




Also, I'm sorry, my post was made right before bed, so I may have been misunderstood (I tried to avoid this but failed :S sorry). I'm not saying that the people were actually there to just troll or cause problems (I doubt anyone on Order would do that) but, that it seemed like they were, to any newbie that was in the area.

When I witnessed what I saw (and I wont say specifically if it was what Star posted or not), that's what it seemed to me. That someone was overreacting to a newbie breaking the rules in New Trismus, an area to me that should be considered very much like the New Player channel (as in, the RP rules shouldn't be held so tight there, as long as it is within reason and that the newbie follow the rules after they learn them), someone stepped in to try and defend the newbie or state and opposing opinion, and then later it escalated into an argument were insults were aimed towards a helpful player that is notorious (to me anyways) for always being there to help new players.

That is how it seemed. And, even though I know to think "well, this probably isn't how it went down exactly", most people don't think that when confronted with what I saw. And what I saw shouldn't have been help in an open place where so many newbies could witness it and be turned away from Order because of it. It's sad to think that someone could think that a whole server is bad just because of one argument between a few people, but it's true and can easily happen.

Order is known for it's nice and open community, anyone can tell that from looking at the forums, but when you go in-game to find two or more older (based on their characters) characters arguing, throwing insults such as claims of trolling among other things that I've mentioned previously, it just ruins the image of Order.

I tried to explain how it seemed (from a newbie perspective), and said that the argument needed to just stop, and even though I probably did this horribly and probably got misunderstood (mostly on my part. I have a hard time getting people to understand what I actually meant when I type something as you can probably see xD), the others agreed that the argument needed to stop and did drop it.



Again, it's not about what did happen, but what seemed to happen.


Edit; Also, I wanted to say that this post will be my last in this thread. I feel like I'm doing more bad than good with replying to this, and that wasn't my intention. I just wanted to get my point across that scaring newbies away, intentionally, on accident, or otherwise, is never a good thing for any reason. If they're truly bad-apples they can be reported and dealt with by the CSR's/mods/devs, you shouldn't argue with them, or anyone, over something in a game. (And a mean an argument that can and probably will grow into an argument of insults).

Anyways, I'm sorry if I offended anyone with what I said, was just trying to help.

[LOVWYRM]

Eelime,
I saw your join- date, so I assume you are a new player

Maybe you do not know that there is not only one "rule" how to rp.
Only if you want to rp with with those who follow that special rule..

We have other kind of rp on Order, we have "light" rp on Order, or no rp at all.
You are either not forced to rp in a special way, nor forced to rp at all.

Feel free to join other chat channels and see what is going on,
feel free to inform other new players about that.

And btw-"elder" or "ancient" are only words.
Everyone gets that respect and acceptance, that he/she personally deserves

Happy gaming

edit:.. and frustrated or appaled new players will not put someone on ignore or report someone- they will just leave the game.

[Raptress]

Maybe you do not know that there is not only one "rule" how to rp.

Well, aside from the stickied Order server guidelines on this forum that don't really get heeded by anyone because they are ultra-strict, there are certain guidelines that the majority of the server follows, and it's those guidelines that I point out to people. Knowing these guidelines will make a player's stay on Order much less prone to conflict. There have to guidelines of some sort to keep something like RP flowing smoothly.

You are either not forced to rp in a special way, nor forced to rp at all.

No one is forced to RP in some special way. No one is forced to RP at all. The only things that I personally ever point out to new players are things like OOC brackets, which are used by pretty much everybody, the differences between IC and OOC, the fact that power-playing is bad form and will often cause people to get upset, etc.

I do occasionally point out to a player that I feel is truly new at the whole RPing thing when I feel that their character is pushing the boundaries of "fair" or "believable", but I only do so because I know that that player may encounter serious problems with other players down the line over it. I know that saying such things can get tricky, so when I do this I make sure to phrase everything very carefully. In no way do I say that they can't play whatever they want nor do I force them to play a different way.

If someone doesn't want to RP at all, then all I ask is that they respect those that do by saying that they don't RP and their actions are OOC.

I give advice about how things on the server normally work. If they ignore it, so be it; I tried. I don't force anyone to do anything.

[Frith-Rae]

I wandered off the server several months ago because I got tired of seeing totally unrealistic "dragons" in RP channels that were public (not private groups, the totally public RP chats..).

I got tired of everytime "waking up" and meeting a new hatchling who I invariably had to then explain to them that my dragon wouldn't consider their existance even possible, therefore my RP int he channel would have to be limited. Because 5 headed invisible vampire blighted wolf bird wingless cat dragons just broke my dragon's brain too much...

Personally I don't see why just a regular Istarian dragon can't be creative being a regular Istarian dragon, working (mostly) within the confines of the lore and reality given to us. I can bend it, but when a 13 footed, 3 tailed, hatchling feeding, energy sucking, zombie brain dragon hatchling comes up and wants to have a casual conversation - again, my brain fries...

So when I do get back in game I hope I'm not finding myself again excusing myself out of meaningful RP because I simply can't make the "dragon" in front of me exist in my character's mind. Who for the first 7 years of this game, never ran into anything odder than a blighted dragon (which can totally exist..lol). (in public channels, private RP groups agree on their own rules!)

Now in all that time, I've tried to help many beginners to RP in as friendly was as possible. Granted I'm sure the 15th time I said "look, I'm going to have to step back from RP because honestly I can't get your creature to exist in Istaria realistically" I probalby wasn't as nice as the first time, but most players took it well and accepted that other than superifcial stuff I wasn't goign to get too involved in their "save me/teach me/help me" plots as hatchlings.

And a few even retooled their characters (through RP) as I helped them understand that if they went too crdazy they may find more resistance like mine than cooperation in RP.

I remember explaining to several that if they wanted people to respond properly to their roleplay that internet shorthand or smilies might end up goign ignored, as many saw those as OOC - not what their CHARACTER saw.

So if someoen RPed to me with a smilie or shorthand, I would say (OOC I understand you're RPing and interacting with me but RP usually prefers things typed out if you need help just ask, but FYI my dragon won't respond to smiliies and such in IC) and then I just ignored that part of their conversation, and helped them figure out how to say/describe things further if they needed it.

The "RP Police" have always existed in this server, and other RP servers - taken on by various people, some nicer than others or more patient than others - as we try to "herd" our server and keep it in that "RP" direction. This is neither great nor horrible - it is just reality of gaming.

Unfortunatley misunderstandings happen, and text is often interpreted entirely wrongly (Yes there have been studies actually! LOL).

So I just hope that when any player goes to "correct" or "help" or advise" another player, try to think of what you're saying withe the meanest tone you cdan think of - so maybe you can think to say it in a more positive way.

To me, just coming out and going ((please use brackets for OOC, smilies are OOC and therefore you are not RPing so use brakets)) (and yes that's basically how I took those statements summed up...) isn't the *best* way of phrasing that. But that's me. I tend to be longwinded as you can see...

LIke I said, when I ran into such uses I just explained, usually in a longwinded way, that generally smilies were considered an OOC expression so my ICily my dragon would only be reacting to their words even if OOC I knew what they meant. Usually by being long winded things are less likley to be taken the wrong way or thought to be said "snippily" or something. Whereas if you only say ((please use brakets for OOC)) or ((Smilies aren't allowed in RP)) and leave it at that, someone could take it however - without the extra explanation to help relate tone and meaning.

For me, sitting in that situation, I would have just gone "Greetings! How are you today!" and ignored the simple smiley *shrugs*. I'd really only point it out if they were sticking around to RP and repeatedly using smilies or internet shorthand to get their point across.

If someone's runing by and pops some "non RP" stuff at me, I continue to stay IC and ignore it. They're just running by. There's really no need to correct every single person who comments.

But that's my opinion, as an Ancient Eldery Cobwebby old dragon...

[Veruliyam]

Yay!

My albino is safe!

>.>

<.<

[LOVWYRM]

(I do agree with you, Raptress )

[Shinkuu]

My biggest pet peeve in Istaria; Dragons with fur. It makes me ROFL at the complete lore fail, but at the same time I want to burn all their fur off. :|

Not one of my more favorite things but not my biggest peeve really.

However, this all makes me glad I avoid NT even more than usual. I knew it was a cesspool of Drama usually Dragon based but I was unaware of the this group of RP Fascists.

[LungTien Temeraire]

this group of RP Fascists.

I wouldn't use this term, myself... some are just more exigent about RP than some others, but everyone has specific tastes.

[Veya]

I may be a little late, but I have NEVER seen animosity towards newbies.

The newer RPer in Stars' post didn't seem to mind after it was explained, and I've even seen that kind of cooperation first-hand, so I don't know what you guys are trying to point out here. Really it's just offensive to those who are actually trying to follow the rules on the server. :\

[Andaras]

"To me, it just seems like the "Police squad" goes there becuase they want a power trip, "enforcing" the rules (which is impossible for them as they have no power nor no right to "enforce" anything)."

Amen! It is totally a power trip to those doing these things.
I had the *coughs* pleasure of encountering some of this type
years back in New Brommel. They stood around in town and talked
smack about once PVP was allowed they would PK all the NooBs,
steal their stuff, and force others to accept them as the Rulers.
Thankfully they left and never came back once WOW was released.
It would never happen, but it was a Power trip for them while
they did this.

Myself, I go back and forth between what I type as part of my
RP. it all depends on how coordinated my fingers are that day/night,
and if I can manage to spell correctly or am having a Stcpyhepalillnligenngged
day. (Spelling typing challenged). I also cut others tons of slack,
in case they have slower-than-rabbit typing speeds. In their cases,
it is easiest to use typing shorthand.

As for RPing a Character, that is the persons choice. I DO agree
that they stick within the world RP. Some of the RP of late has
gone totally against the Imperical Lore. Vampire Dragons, for Istaria's
sake?? *Tail twitches in irritation*

We do not have Vampires in Istaria. However, if we did, I am fairly
certain they would be classified as Undead, and Undead happen
to be servants of the Withered Aegis.

IMO You cannot _stress_ CANNOT Be Gifted AND Undead.

If any RP rule was to be enforced, I would place that one first.
NO RP is allowed where a player is other than a member of the
LIVING Races and not working against the Empire.

Andaras

[Starstilanxs]

Andaras, you ENTIRELY missed most of the point here. Did you read all the previous posts?
There are no elitests here, we try our hardest to help newbies with the rules and regulations of the RP server. Did you read the official rules for the server? It is in the forums and stickied. I said in my previous post that 15% of those rules are enforced by me and the rest of the Order server RPer's.

Going around and bashing us because you had a bad experiance in the past is entirely uncalled for.

[Nambroth]

How truly unfortunate that those who are vocally "Anti-roleplay" are pushing those that would role-play off of the role-playing server. My reasons for remaining are quickly dwindling. I had really been hoping to work on more dragon art resources...

If someone is new and is not sure about the difference between In Character or Out of Character (most especially in the main/local/public chat), I will politely explain about the use of brackets (( )) [[ ]] and such. I have had a mixed bag of reactions... in the past more often than not it was met with understanding and often those players went on to keep playing and enjoy the game. I know of a few that sub even to this day! But recently it's been met with hostility or quite frankly just ignoring the request. Out of Character chat, leetspeak, smilies, and talk about real life going-ons in the local/public chat (in person if you will) is actually against server rules. Despite all of this I have never acted abrasively or rudely to someone new or that repeatedly goes against this. I have always asked politely, and in the few cases that it got overwhelming I left the area.

It's unfair to blame everyone for a bad experience unless everyone is actually contributing to it (which I see every evidence that this is not the case).

[LungTien Temeraire]

How truly unfortunate that those who are vocally "Anti-roleplay" are pushing those that would role-play off of the role-playing server. My reasons for remaining are quickly dwindling. I had really been hoping to work on more dragon art resources...

If someone is new and is not sure about the difference between In Character or Out of Character (most especially in the main/local/public chat), I will politely explain about the use of brackets (( )) [[ ]] and such. I have had a mixed bag of reactions... in the past more often than not it was met with understanding and often those players went on to keep playing and enjoy the game. I know of a few that sub even to this day! But recently it's been met with hostility or quite frankly just ignoring the request. Out of Character chat, leetspeak, smilies, and talk about real life going-ons in the local/public chat (in person if you will) is actually against server rules. Despite all of this I have never acted abrasively or rudely to someone new or that repeatedly goes against this. I have always asked politely, and in the few cases that it got overwhelming I left the area.

It's unfair to blame everyone for a bad experience unless everyone is actually contributing to it (which I see every evidence that this is not the case).

I have rarely, as far as I remember, encountered rude new roleplayers when I started to tell them about roleplay on Istaria. It might be luck, but I am always greeting them at first, before to ask anything, and then explain quietly and directing towards rules, on the forum.

[LOVWYRM]

it seems that for some of us/you the situation is unbareable atm.
This is sad!

Why don`t we/you just come together and talk ?
Find a solution together?
I`m sure some vet-Order players will help and moderate the discusssion.
I`m sure a solution even a concililiation can be found.
Those who are concerned might decide who joins the meeting and invite.

Neither Order nor the game can affort to loose players
due to smoldering conflicts.

[Miravlix]

I spend days on trying to find the right way to make the original post. I failed in some ways, since the focus is on the fact that I dislike some part of other peoples roleplay, instead of the fact I feel there should be room for this hatchling thats really an ancient vampire wolf dragon.

The point is, live and let live.

Stop going to NT where you are guaranteed to find the most cases of people offending you, your effectively seeking out the most possible trouble.

You decide how you RP and I decide whatever I'm offended by someone saying "Hello :-)" to me, you don't decide for me, you don't get involved ruining my RP and fun and just as I try to stay out of your stuff.

[Raptress]

Stop going to NT where you are guaranteed to find the most cases of people offending you, your effectively seeking out the most possible trouble.

Where else are they going to go looking for RP exactly? It's NT or channels pretty much. Also, looking for RP in basically the only physical location in the game where RP spontaneously occurs isn't "seeking out trouble" to me.

The people who point out OOC brackets and whatnot are not trying to "ruin" anyone's RP. They are trying to show players who may not know that there are some general guidelines that many people follow on the server that helps keep RP in "bounds" so to speak.

Perhaps there are times that things are said that perhaps could have been said in a better way, but that doesn't mean the people who bring up RP guidelines are doing it for any sort of mean-spirited reason.

[Shinkuu]

Adressing the second issue, you say there are roleplay police in NT? When someone types 'u' instead of 'you' or has smilies instead of actually typing out "smiles" that breaks immersion and as such, most everyone who roleplays will inform them of this. If you look at the rules, it states that you should ask them to refrain from doing so. The rules that are actually laid out for Order are extremely strict on what you can and can not do but we don't follow those to the precise word. In fact, I would say we follow about 15% of the rules given.

Everyone has a right to roleplay out their character by crafting, lairshaping, questing, talking to NPC's, this has -always- been the case and no one says anything against it. But it could be put into terms such as "I have gained more seasons of experiance!" vs. "I have leveled a bunch!" Immersion is the key point in roleplay, that is why it is called -roleplay-. You are playing out a character who is in a fantasy world that is completely unaware that they are in a game.

I have some trouble incorporating the Game World into actual RP some times as well I will admit. I cannot talk about level of things so instead I talk about the strength of things. My characters train and get stronger or gain more knowledge. I even figured out a clever reason why Trophy Hunters give you EXP which is hard to explain otherwise. I manage to sometimes give reasons why I cannot wear certain things as certain classes when in reality it can make no sense at all...

The grinding part of crafting though is very hard to justify so often I just consider it something that is happening in the time you do not actually see and converse with me. If I am off grinding a craft and you run into my character there in the slave mines I will often not really RP that I am there. I rarely RP that I am in NT buying and selling things or the like of this or that I am traveling all over the world for various reasons. In those times my characters are essentially not there. I wish I could honestly make my In-Game character invisible while I take care of such things so as not to give the ILLUSION that I am actually ICLY present.

I VERY VERY rarely RP with my In-Game Character because of how limited their motions are and because doing so wastes my time when I should be grinding my tail off to get up to end levels. So instead I only Text RP.

[Miravlix]

Where else are they going to go looking for RP exactly? It's NT or channels pretty much. Also, looking for RP in basically the only physical location in the game where RP spontaneously occurs isn't "seeking out trouble" to me.

The people who point out OOC brackets and whatnot are not trying to "ruin" anyone's RP. They are trying to show players who may not know that there are some general guidelines that many people follow on the server that helps keep RP in "bounds" so to speak.

Perhaps there are times that things are said that perhaps could have been said in a better way, but that doesn't mean the people who bring up RP guidelines are doing it for any sort of mean-spirited reason.

And as always you and the others shows why we have drama, your not willing to compromise and make room for everyone, but keep doing your stuff even while you get told again and again it annoys people.