Closing up Shop

[Shinkuu]

I totally agree with what Velea said, it mirrors what I've said in
other threads about RP.

Instead of letting the "bad apples" win by driving you out of the
community, might I make a suggestion?

Put them on IGNORE. If enough of the community did that, those
wishing to irritate the entire community with their RP would lose.
Keep in mind, there are those that want to RP with an unusual
twist Vs those that wish to make a negative impact on the community.
It is the Latter I am talking about here.

let these words be the words on the wind....*heaves a sigh*
what Sephi said!

Andaras

I do not mind folks who want an unusual twist. My only problem with this suggestion is I suspect there would be no one to RP with after that, which would be pretty much the same thing as leaving the RP community. Essentially, I AM ignoring them to be honest. That is the whole idea behind moving to private and saying "frell that junk".

[Shinkuu]

Its a whole other type of player who doesn't want their character to "learn and grow" and just remain the same regardless of how illogical that is.

I mean to me - any gifted that hatches into gifted life with a family is...wierd. Unless you and your family were all killed and gifted together, that shouldnt' be happening. When the game first lauched, dragons understood that. We were ALL Orphans, it wasn't anything special, it was a *given*, because we all died seperately and were gifted/chosen seperately. But just because we were all orphans didnt' mean we all acted no better than freshly welped pups. Dragons die at different stages in their life to become gifted - just because you're a hatchling doesn't mean you were hatched yesterday and died and got gifted.

"They can't RP with you hiding under a bush."
"They can't RP if you can't speak the language or in some way communicate where they can undersatnd you easily."
"They can't include you if your character refuses to be included."

People STOP ASKING if you RP like that! I swear, this seems like common sense to me but I've sen it happen over and over and over again. Someone who would be a good RPer and would have things to contribute if they just loosen up their holy character concept so that they COULD be included.

But here's muy problem with this. THen people like myself - we get left out. We either RP with the "insanity" or we have noone to RP with. Noone logs in and pokes me and goes "hey we got some great RP over here if you'd olike to join" because they know I am a good Rper and I love RP. Never once have I had that happen.

Instead I wander a dead gameland, desperately seeking RP in public chat channels because the Rpers who got sick of the crap isolated themselves wihtout telling the rest of us where they went - or if we were even welcome.

And then what happens is that small group of RPers gets smaller and smaller - because people move on, leave the game, get busy. And then the one or two great RPers who might be left, like yourself - quit the game because they think RP is dead.

And I dont say that to be disrespectful or mean or offensive. I just want others to know the frustration of the "qualified but not included." SO when those like me login and see people griping aboue the state of RP and that they went and isolated themselves with their chosen group - what did they expect? When that chosen group dries up - what do they expect?

You gotta have fresh blood influx to keep it going - which means those "isolated spots" need to at least have players out and about looking for the good newbs who might be good additions. And us older players who are still looking - if we don't know where to go we can't find ya!

I agree with your top part there easily. If your character never changes at all and never grows and learns... Then... I honestly wonder what the point of playing them is? I thought the whole fun of the experience WAS to watch your character grow. Sometimes they even grow in ways you did not predict... Though some times that is not so great as I found out.

There is no reason a Hatchie, even who IS gifted, could not come from a family, have a family still or even have a gifted family for that matter. However, for them to KNOW they are gifted would require their death and it is a bit unfortunate for them to have died so young.

However, there are many who choose to play their Hatchie as not Gifted or as not knowing they are Gifted because they have yet to die. In those cases a family is perfectly acceptable and appropriate.

Take Zarla and Tsume, they were essentially gifted since before they hatched as they died BEFORE they had even hatched but they did not know that and their parents had no clue they were Gifted... They grew up thinking they were as mortal as anyone else and were shocked when they came back and their mother died of the pain of losing her whole family because as far as she knew they did die and were not coming back...

Common Sense is anything but Common I am afraid. I agree with that aspect being frustrating but there is another side to that as well... Many, especially newer, players are themselves a bit shy. They do not want to jump boldly into a group of established people out of fear that they will be rejected and thus their RP will go bye-bye before it even began. You have to be a little patient with them and just try to ease them into something a bit more comfortable some times. Zarla especially tended to warm up to the shy Hatchies and got good results... Back when she was public.

You make a valid point about getting left out in the cold but honestly I do not know you, have never seen you In-Game, cannot find you. How am I supposed to "Poke" you? How am I supposed to tell you anything when you do not exist to me? You may as well not play the game as far as I am concerned because you are a non-person to me the same way I am to you because you cannot find me and do not see me.

If we are ever going to solve THAT problem we need to make a place where such role players can get together. In my case you may be in luck because I have a Channel open that I keep fairly Private but I would welcome the good RP'ers there... The channel is Moyo Lake, but be warned... If you bring Evil there ICLY I will destroy it and it will be forced out ICLY. Moyo Lake is Zarla's Fortress of Solitude as it were and she and others protect it fiercely.

As for the what do you expect part of your post... I expect to stick to those who do not require my Character to have to be insane to play around to be those I deal with and to for all intents and purposes ignore the rest of the world as if it did not exist.

As for the second question in that regard, well, when that group dries up, then I will be done for good. What purpose would I have to keep playing when that circle is gone? Wonder where a lot of the other RP'ers went? Yep, the same place for the same reasons. They left the Public Channels because they could not take the crap there and did not want their characters ruined by it so they went underground instead. (Odd that you have to go underground to play a Good character) When that underground movement dissolved then they quit altogether and now they are gone or just barely checking in.

What does that leave for the Newbs? Leaves them with just the scum and villainy because all the rest have long since realized that they cannot beat the hordes of evil and so have left to what amounts to another reality. Does that suck for the New Folks? Yes, yes it does... Does that make some of them leave practically as fast as they came? I bet it does... Is that unfortunate? Yes... Yes it is... Because that does shed the New Blood and prevent it from becoming the new life blood of the community...

What can we do about it, that is my question to you and any other? I am not going to lower myself to the standards of the Public RP anymore. I am done doing that and will not be complacent any longer. ENOUGH OF THAT. I COULD play in the Public and totally Ignore all the bad elements... It would make my posts very odd but it could be done... Is that what is required? Should I do that? Could be a big turn off for some to know that if they do not tow the line they will fall off the radar altogether... but I suppose I do not care if we lose some of them...

As for the meeting, I still say let us make a thread on the boards first. We can all come and read here when our time allows so there is not so much stress on schedules. From THERE we can then do in-game stuff if we wish but I see no reason why we cannot start very well here first to help out with crazy schedules especially with the Holidays.

[velveeta]

let me start by saying i play mostly on blight, so i don't really roleplay ingame (unless you count my whole cheese queen persona) - but i am very experienced in paper rpgs, so here are my thoughts for whatever they are worth -

coming up with uber characters is a mistake of noobs. experienced players know you take what at first seems like an average, dull character and you make them unique.
admit it - do you know any other cheese queens? i bet not. and velveeta is just a saris. but i make her more than any other black and white, gold head pieced saris in the whole realm of istaria. I made velveeta unique, not any fancy, anti-lore creation of my mind. you don't need to be demonspawn to be an individual, you just have to make yourself one.

everything else discussed so far is a matter of manners. serious (and polite) roleplayers who even sense their roleplay is unwanted in public chat will take that rp to private channels. these roleplayers would not think of imposing thier game on unwilling or uninvolved gamers. this particularly goes for newbies - it's hard enough to be new to a game without stepping unwittingly into someone else crap.....

those times that i do go to order and i break a rule, i am graciously reminded of where i am. i am grateful for these reminders and regret any and all offenses given while a guest on the honored and honorable order shard.

[Shinkuu]

let me start by saying i play mostly on blight, so i don't really roleplay ingame (unless you count my whole cheese queen persona) - but i am very experienced in paper rpgs, so here are my thoughts for whatever they are worth -

coming up with uber characters is a mistake of noobs. experienced players know you take what at first seems like an average, dull character and you make them unique.
admit it - do you know any other cheese queens? i bet not. and velveeta is just a saris. but i make her more than any other black and white, gold head pieced saris in the whole realm of istaria. I made velveeta unique, not any fancy, anti-lore creation of my mind. you don't need to be demonspawn to be an individual, you just have to make yourself one.

everything else discussed so far is a matter of manners. serious (and polite) roleplayers who even sense their roleplay is unwanted in public chat will take that rp to private channels. these roleplayers would not think of imposing thier game on unwilling or uninvolved gamers. this particularly goes for newbies - it's hard enough to be new to a game without stepping unwittingly into someone else crap.....

those times that i do go to order and i break a rule, i am graciously reminded of where i am. i am grateful for these reminders and regret any and all offenses given while a guest on the honored and honorable order shard.

Dunno about all this Honor on Order TBVH but I do know of the Land Mines O' Poo of which you speak and you need a big sweeping detector to avoid them, let me tell you.

[Frith-Rae]

They do not want to jump boldly into a group of established people out of fear that they will be rejected and thus their RP will go bye-bye before it even began. You have to be a little patient with them and just try to ease them into something a bit more comfortable some times.

Oh I agree. I was referring more to those who consistently RP that way and then QQ about why people aren't inviting them anymore. I am the Idol of Patience , if its a new player or a hatchie or player I don't recognize Frith is all about dragging them out kickign and screaming out of that bush (or Feralness) and getting them to interact.

But if I've done this for your character for oh a few weeks in a row - that's where the patience starts to end and the "why aren't you changing accordingly?" begins .

You make a valid point about getting left out in the cold but honestly I do not know you, have never seen you In-Game, cannot find you. How am I supposed to "Poke" you? How am I supposed to tell you anything when you do not exist to me? You may as well not play the game as far as I am concerned because you are a non-person to me the same way I am to you because you cannot find me and do not see me.

If we are ever going to solve THAT problem we need to make a place where such role players can get together. In my case you may be in luck because I have a Channel open that I keep fairly Private but I would welcome the good RP'ers there... The channel is Moyo Lake, but be warned... If you bring Evil there ICLY I will destroy it and it will be forced out ICLY. Moyo Lake is Zarla's Fortress of Solitude as it were and she and others protect it fiercely.

Like that! How do you notify people! _ LIKE THAT _ . You're right. I don't know you in game and you don't know me. And honestly I'm mostly out of game right now so you coudln't find me in game if you wanted to (I hope to soon fix that..). But letting others know through others means (like this one) that your RP chatroom is actually open to others coming in and poking around. I would have had no idea that that was a chatroom you frequented, that was open to others to RP in (regardless of rules, no worries about evil - Frith is never evil). I would see the channel but not know I was welcome.

So you do it just the way you did it - by going (either in game or thorugh PMs if you see interseted posters or in forums this way) "Hey this is my chat room you're welcome to RP in it and here are the basic rules/settings" etc. .

As for the second question in that regard, well, when that group dries up, then I will be done for good. What purpose would I have to keep playing when that circle is gone?

And you're ok with that? That makes me sad! I mean I've been in those groups myself, in this game, in others. For whatever reason - they imploded/exploded/died out. I could have quit years ago when those people left, but I mean - why wouldn't you try and get to know new people? *shrugs*

I mean everyone has their line - someoen might think "Hey Frith you've had 3 RP groups blowup in the last 6 years why even try anymore to find new ones?" Well because I just love to RP so I am driven to find new ones when the others leave. Yea I could quit in a huff, abandon my dragon and a game. Same thing in WoW when my first two guilds died out - one guild of which I thought I had great friends in and we'd been together for over a year - guildleader quits and disbands the guild - BAM. So do I quit pissed off in a huff and leave something I find fun? Or do I pick myself up and find another guild and make MORE friends! I pick myself up and make more friends - and now I hvae even better friends than I had before - having even more fun!

To me that's the nature of MMORPGs - groups mojve on things change - you can either dedicate yourself to those few people and then when they move on quit yourself and just give up something you find fun. Or you can do what the games mean for you to do - which is find NEW people to have fun with .

Which is why I find it sad whenever someone's "core" group moves on and they can't find it in themselves to find another core group. I mean I do understand everyone can only try for so long - but it still makes me sad .

What does that leave for the Newbs? Leaves them with just the scum and villainy because all the rest have long since realized that they cannot beat the hordes of evil and so have left to what amounts to another reality. Does that suck for the New Folks? Yes, yes it does... Does that make some of them leave practically as fast as they came? I bet it does... Is that unfortunate? Yes... Yes it is... Because that does shed the New Blood and prevent it from becoming the new life blood of the community...

Well at least we agree on the outcome. The difference to me is after a break I try to say "ok, let's try this again!!" - if you want to give up then give up *shrugs*. But if you do that, and accept that the above is the outcome - it does noone any good when you poke your head up out of your private RP and say "HEY YOU ALL SUCK".

Either get busy trying to help make the place better, or stay in the hole and quit when everyone you like quits.

I've seen DOZEN of these threads over hte years, and though I DO SHARE in the frustration of the "average" RPer trying to compete with it all. At the end of the day I say the same thing as I say to those RPers QQing about their shy mute character not having any interaction.

DO SOMETHING OR QUIT YER QQin

And I dont mean as in YOU Shinkuu - I mean "you" in the general sense. And in the nicest most respectful but honest way of saying that to all . I mean no disrespect, no insult - I truly do talk this way to my closest friends if they are complaining and not doing anything to change it (Over time!). I'm a psychologist, so ultimately, I believe in self-work and self-change .

What can we do about it, that is my question to you and any other? I am not going to lower myself to the standards of the Public RP anymore. I am done doing that and will not be complacent any longer. ENOUGH OF THAT. I COULD play in the Public and totally Ignore all the bad elements... It would make my posts very odd but it could be done... Is that what is required? Should I do that? Could be a big turn off for some to know that if they do not tow the line they will fall off the radar altogether... but I suppose I do not care if we lose some of them...

I think you (or anyone, not just YOU) can be a balance.

You have your private RPs, the ongoing channels where things are abit more to your liking. Then you have your "public RPs" where you, or I, or anyone, in their politest and most respectful mode try to help others figure out the ins/outs of RP. Realizing that we all had to start somewhere, and just because that person is RPing their charactrer that way doesn't mean they've "thought it all through" to the end.

As I've said in other threads, I know of at least 2-3 players who altered their lore-breaking characters and "grew" their characters into more generally accepted creatures through discussions with me. I tried to, int he most helpfula nd friendly manner I could, let them know that if they chose ABC then DEF could happen (they'd be ignored, they'd be not included, people would have problems iwth their character existing, that godmodding wasn't cool) etc.

Do I want to do that 24 hours a day - well of course not. But oftentimes those conversations with me end on a positive note - and the characters find a balance between what they want to do and what the "community" (Or just Frith-Rae) will RP out with them *shrugs*.

It IS possible. It does NOT require yourself to be "lowered" to their standard, but instead educate and bring them UP to YOUR standard .

[Shinkuu]

And you're ok with that? That makes me sad! I mean I've been in those groups myself, in this game, in others. For whatever reason - they imploded/exploded/died out. I could have quit years ago when those people left, but I mean - why wouldn't you try and get to know new people? *shrugs*

To me that's the nature of MMORPGs - groups mojve on things change - you can either dedicate yourself to those few people and then when they move on quit yourself and just give up something you find fun. Or you can do what the games mean for you to do - which is find NEW people to have fun with .

Which is why I find it sad whenever someone's "core" group moves on and they can't find it in themselves to find another core group. I mean I do understand everyone can only try for so long - but it still makes me sad .



Well at least we agree on the outcome. The difference to me is after a break I try to say "ok, let's try this again!!" - if you want to give up then give up *shrugs*. But if you do that, and accept that the above is the outcome - it does noone any good when you poke your head up out of your private RP and say "HEY YOU ALL SUCK".

Either get busy trying to help make the place better, or stay in the hole and quit when everyone you like quits.

I've seen DOZEN of these threads over hte years, and though I DO SHARE in the frustration of the "average" RPer trying to compete with it all. At the end of the day I say the same thing as I say to those RPers QQing about their shy mute character not having any interaction.

DO SOMETHING OR QUIT YER QQin

And I dont mean as in YOU Shinkuu - I mean "you" in the general sense. And in the nicest most respectful but honest way of saying that to all . I mean no disrespect, no insult - I truly do talk this way to my closest friends if they are complaining and not doing anything to change it (Over time!). I'm a psychologist, so ultimately, I believe in self-work and self-change .



I think you (or anyone, not just YOU) can be a balance.

You have your private RPs, the ongoing channels where things are abit more to your liking. Then you have your "public RPs" where you, or I, or anyone, in their politest and most respectful mode try to help others figure out the ins/outs of RP. Realizing that we all had to start somewhere, and just because that person is RPing their charactrer that way doesn't mean they've "thought it all through" to the end.

As I've said in other threads, I know of at least 2-3 players who altered their lore-breaking characters and "grew" their characters into more generally accepted creatures through discussions with me. I tried to, int he most helpfula nd friendly manner I could, let them know that if they chose ABC then DEF could happen (they'd be ignored, they'd be not included, people would have problems iwth their character existing, that godmodding wasn't cool) etc.

Do I want to do that 24 hours a day - well of course not. But oftentimes those conversations with me end on a positive note - and the characters find a balance between what they want to do and what the "community" (Or just Frith-Rae) will RP out with them *shrugs*.

It IS possible. It does NOT require yourself to be "lowered" to their standard, but instead educate and bring them UP to YOUR standard .

I am ok with it to an extent... The game play here, the game itself, is decent to look at and fun for awhile but the endless grind, the uncooperative nature of the(a) Dev, and the mechanics of it all are really not worthy of my continued attention and support. As a very close friend asked "Why should I pay for essentially a chat room?" because they are also here only for the RP. For me there are yet a few things I wish to experience before I leave forever I think but I would honestly say I am here 90% for the RP and only 10% for the Game itself. The game would have to undergo some intense alterations to change that and I cannot see that happening because of stubborn pride.

However, I understand why you find that sad. I would look for others but there are not many others to find. There are those I cannot and will no longer tolerate or RP with and besides them there is just crickets out there.

As for doing something, there is nothing I can do. That is the problem. I cannot change anyone but myself so in the end the only thing I can do is get away from them. I have given doing anything else a pretty good shot but it was fruitless. I may yet slam them all onto my Ignore list and go into Public again just treating them all as if they do not exist in my reality. It is going to be really odd for other folks but hey, they tend to break sane reality so I supposed I would be MORE insane to acknowledge them than to seemingly not know they existed huh?

The ones I have issues with are not Newbs. I have a lot of patience for New Players and am more than willing to try to work through their growing pains and try to get them on the right track. Making Mistakes is normal and fully expected and may even at times end up being interesting enough to run with. I suspect I am even a fair bit more willing to put up with oddities than you may be so long as I can logically wrap my head around them and why they exist I can tolerate them. However, my issue is not a matter of someone being naive or ignorant...

[Darkwing_Duck]

I do not mind folks who want an unusual twist. My only problem with this suggestion is I suspect there would be no one to RP with after that, which would be pretty much the same thing as leaving the RP community. Essentially, I AM ignoring them to be honest. That is the whole idea behind moving to private and saying "frell that junk".

Very true. already some players chased me out of public RP channels, but I don`t like putting people on ignore myself. XD but if the sircumstances call for it, I will ignore them at least for a few days. not to mention people do need to realize if they play a dark character, their character will be punished, even killed. so if they don`t want that to happen, then don`t RP that character s dark!
like me with ryzaak, and Negadragoon. both are dark, and I know that one day they might be killed off. And I`m ok with that. Ryzaak`s not gifted since he`s blighted, and a former aegis, so he would be permakilled. which I`m expecting, and will be transferring him to Chaos when the time comes. but that`s in the long run. XD

as for the community, I`m done with it. I`m still in public chat rooms, but only OOCly. i myself have been backlashed far too many times while RPing to even bother letting my character entering in those channels ICly.

as you said "frell that junk!" hehe! Farscape curses

[Shinkuu]

Very true. already some players chased me out of public RP channels, but I don`t like putting people on ignore myself. XD but if the sircumstances call for it, I will ignore them at least for a few days. not to mention people do need to realize if they play a dark character, their character will be punished, even killed. so if they don`t want that to happen, then don`t RP that character s dark!
like me with ryzaak, and Negadragoon. both are dark, and I know that one day they might be killed off. And I`m ok with that. Ryzaak`s not gifted since he`s blighted, and a former aegis, so he would be permakilled. which I`m expecting, and will be transferring him to Chaos when the time comes. but that`s in the long run. XD

as for the community, I`m done with it. I`m still in public chat rooms, but only OOCly. i myself have been backlashed far too many times while RPing to even bother letting my character entering in those channels ICly.

as you said "frell that junk!" hehe! Farscape curses

Nega is going to get his dark side WHACKED out of him by Dygath by the looks of it LOL!

That was a funny RP and I cannot wait to watch Dygath reforming him the rest of the way.

[Darkwing_Duck]

Quiting Istaria for a while..

I need to just get away from all the drama. and hate towards players.
I`m stuck in the middle of a hate triangle, and there`s no way out except quiting the game entirely...
so wish granted..
I`m leaving, and won`t cause anymore drama in game.
I`ll be posting a journel on DA with all the details, but for now, just saying goodbye...
I hate to leave as I love this game, but I cannot take the crap going on that I`m in the middle of.

*cries, and curls up in bed*

[awdz]

*gives Darkwing_Duck a container of delicious klava for comfort while he's gone*
i don't know what drama you were caught up in but i wish you the best and hope you find happier times on your return.

[Shinkuu]

Quiting Istaria for a while..

I need to just get away from all the drama. and hate towards players.
I`m stuck in the middle of a hate triangle, and there`s no way out except quiting the game entirely...
so wish granted..
I`m leaving, and won`t cause anymore drama in game.
I`ll be posting a journel on DA with all the details, but for now, just saying goodbye...
I hate to leave as I love this game, but I cannot take the crap going on that I`m in the middle of.

*cries, and curls up in bed*

: ( ... I will try to keep in touch regardless Reagle... Hate to see you go.

[Ashuran]

Open Roleplaying Decay for the lose. It's an old and well known phenomenon...

#2. So very much.

[Shinkuu]

Open Roleplaying Decay for the lose. It's an old and well known phenomenon...

#2. So very much.

For Reagle it is more a matter of harassment actually but the other part is happening as well.

[Darkwing_Duck]

Very true Ashuran, thank you for posting this!
I`ve seen a few overpowered or godmodding in the recent days, hense why I don`t bothing roleplaying in the public RP rooms anymore. I try RPing, and it`s like everything my character does, it`s overpowered by the "godmodder", and my even though higher level character, is overpowered, and eventualy beaten or killed.
Very disgusted by this I quit RPing in public chats. It`s either that or the other player RPs so off lore I can`t even understand what he/she is trying to get across. Some of my own characters are a little out there, and may have strange abilities, but I try my best to at least keep it within the game`s lore, and non of my characters are invincible even if immortal (gifted) not unkillable.