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Thread: Pries open one eye and looks about...

  1. #1

    Default Pries open one eye and looks about...

    I popped back in over the weekend for a quick wing stretch... Mostly because I had gotten another letter from Virtrium that the person who has the master plot in the community where my lair is has gone missing.

    This is the second time this has happened since October... And now the guild's web site has gone missing...

    I briefly pondered deconstruction just so I'd have the novians, but as I flew over the once bustling collection of guild towns which are now mostly vacant plots, I became aware of just how futile the whole thing is...

    A big lair full of high tech tools is only useful if you either have people using those tools or if you yourself have things that need building, or if someone other than you ever sets foot into the place just to say "wow, that's a crazy amount of work"... With the guild essentially gone there is little point in me logging in and spending hours building more stuff no one will use, or even see.

    It seems to me that Istaria's 'end game' for Dragons is lair shaping - and as Gifted we live essentially forever... So I'm looking at an eternity of hauling rocks?

    In this regard I have to ask, what have the folks who have played pretty much non-stop for so many years *do* in Istaria? I realize Istaria is mostly a social game at this point, but folks have to be doing something other than sitting around discussing the unchanging virtual weather right?

    In that 'other' MMO they dealt with the level cap by creating an almost infinite number of money sinks in the form of a zillion different 'things' that one can purchase (trinkets, mounts, fluff items, gear, etc.), which of course costs money and which of course keeps one doing daily quests or some other grindy thing to keep the cash flowing (time sinks). They keep the players so busy window shopping that they don't notice they're on a treadmill and not really getting anywhere.

    Maybe two years ago (you know how the memory is after sleeping for six months) I sold a very rare, very powerful crystal for what I figure was something near the GDP of the Order shard... And with the way Istaria is with money, I'll not have to work again for the rest of my life, and those of several alts. So the acquisition of money isn't something I see myself doing... In fact, I've tried to spread some of my wealth around by posting very generous commissions for building things, but rarely does anyone take up the offer... Few are in a position to need money, so bribery does little to get work done.

    Then there's the ultimate guild sport - raiding... I've been playing around in Istaria on and off since the box hit the shelves, but this is something I've never done in Istaria. I read about people lamenting the lack of 'hunting parties' for top-tier named critters these days... Is this the same sort of raid deal, just with an Istarian twist? If so, I might try my hand at it - are Dragons of the Helian persuasion still combat gimped? If so, I'll have to reallocate my points into melee first...

    In short, I'd love to come back and play some more, but I just have to find a different tack for my sails - I've killed countless numbers of same model but bigger flora and fauna to reach level 98 adventure, I've hauled literal mountains from point A to point B to reach 90-something crafting, and I think I've invested as much time as I want to in lairshaping unless someone needs to use the tools I have available.

    My current year of account time is up in a week or two... I've subscribed to the game in yearly increments since VI took over, even though I only play for a few months out of the year typically... I'm a believer in the design ideals of the original Istaria and I hope that my yearly contribution inches things closer to those ideals, but I have limits on the repetition I can handle - so I take extended breaks...

    I guess what I'm looking for is a reason to keep logging back in occasionally, if only to justify the subscription. What keeps the other circa 2004 players playing?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Pries open one eye and looks about...

    I'm glad you brought this up, Raeshlavik. The timing is good, too, because your post does come at a time when we at Virtrium are looking at what to do in the coming year to build Istaria. And as a game designer, it always interests me to see people's answers to the question I believe you were ultimately asking... What keeps someone playing a game past reaching the "end" of the game?

    I learned an interesting lesson on just that over the holiday, actually. The "big present" my son wanted for Christmas this year was the latest Assassin's Creed game for the 360. He got it Christmas morning, and we basically didn't see him for a few days while he played. He might have even missed a meal or two in there, and that's saying something for a teenage boy, as he devoured the game's content. When he came to me less than a week after Christmas with a triumphant smile on his face to declare that he "beat" the game, I found I was disappointed. In my mind here was this gift that we'd worked hard to get him, something he had looked forward to for months... and he was "done" with it within a week. And it was from a designer's point of view too that I was disappointed, because I could only imagine the feeling that someone from the team would have if they knew he was "done" with something that took them months (years?) to make in less than a week. I asked him "Well what now? Do we trade it in for something else?" because in my mind "done" means no need to play it again. And here's where the lesson came... My son looked at me shocked, as though I'd totally missed something and replied "No! I haven't finished it yet, I'm just done with the story. I have ... " and he begins to list things that he has to do with the game still, and it's quite the list. And then he reminded me how he hasn't even finished everything in the first Assassin's Creed game and gives me a list of what he has to do there.

    My lesson from this little conversation is that while someone might be "done" with the game, that apparently doesn't mean they're finished with it. Though he's reached the "level cap" with the first character (or file in this case), he's by no means left ready to leave the game and move on to something else. And I realized that this applies to Istaria as well, both from a player's and designer's perspective. While we as a team might work for months to develop new content for Istaria only to have a player finish it within a week's time, that doesn't mean they are necessarily finished with the game. The key for me as a designer is to look at what can be implemented in Istaria that would give players that feeling of "I'm done, but I have more to do." I look forward to hearing the responses of players of Istaria, but also of those who have experience with other games that they have played for years, even if it is only off and on. It's quite probable that something someone posts here can be another key lesson that I and the other members of the team can take back and apply to Istaria in some way or another over the next year or two.

  3. #3
    Member C`gan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pries open one eye and looks about...

    Well, let's see.

    Tagath started in December of 2003 (12/26/03) and on 1/1/11, he made 100 adventure. He is just NOW getting to his ARoP and hasn't gotten lairshaper up to 100 yet.

    I started in March, 2004 and I'm only starting to get my construction classes to 100. So far, I have 3. My one and only adventure class, warrior, is somewhere higher than 50, but that's about it.

    What do we do with our time? Help others. Hey, we're doing a raid here and need some damage dealer (Tagath). Oh, I want to find a plot, but don't know where to look (me). How do you plan this plot/lair out (Tagath and/or me). Can I get some newbie equipment (both of us).

    The trick to this game, like so many other MMOs is being PART of the community, not just watching it whiz by from pad to portal. If you're bored with one aspect of Istaria, by all means find another. So you've gotten your dragon all up and done. Have you tried a biped? Have you tried multiclassing a biped in a pair of pumpkin pants only? Have you ever raspberried Mohs or tossed a bucket of water on Ravager? Ever roasted marshmallows on Surtheim? Trust me, there's a lot more that goes on in Istaria than simple gaining of armor and equipment, building a plot or lair, and leveling to 100s.

    Other things to do: Set up a consignment shop for being Istaria's premier hoard dealer. Or set up one somewhere and advertise for better sales on components and then keep it stocked (Order shard has one in Bristugo, player built). The key is to find something you LIKE to do and can be involved with what goes on at the same time. However you balance that, you make it work. Me, personally, I like finding where the plots are near resources and finding people who will own them and build the crafthalls to match the materials. Look at Acul (mine), Last Stand (Fandarel's), South Gate (Oasis') plots. If you're bored, I know a wonderful couple spots in Harton Valley that could house a carpentry hall and silos for maple, plus an essence channeler.

    This from a guy who the community elected as the WorldProjects Team Lead just because he had a to do list of what needed built around Istaria when the first community meeting came up after Merger.
    Last edited by C`gan; January 3rd, 2011 at 05:36 PM.
    C`gan Weyrsinger, blue Tagath's rider, WorldProjects Team Lead Emeritus
    Tagath, blue Lunus "for the breath weapon"
    Located in sunny Acul on Trandalar, Order shard

  4. #4

    Default Re: Pries open one eye and looks about...

    As C'gan said - figure out what YOU Like to do most (and yea that can change!) and Istaria wil usually (though in small numbers perhaps) allow you to feed that.

    I'm not one for alts (in all my games). I certainly have zippo desire to level up any biped (or another dragon) character in Istaria. I too have subbed nonstop since the game started, and taken long breaks like yourself when I get burned out on the game.

    What keeps me coming back really is wanting to be a part of the community again. Keepign in touch with peeps on the forum, and reminding me that way of the game's people that I love to hang out with, kill stuff with, craft with - whatever with.

    My dragon - the one and only character I"ve ever had - is not 100/100/top hoarde. She's 90 and she's been 90 since Ancienthood launched. I've never had a real reason to level up those last 10 levels - so I've rarely battled in the last few years, doing mostly crafting and trying to RP as much as I can find it.

    I get burned out on crafting, I take my breaks. I think "gee..I should get to 100, go through the ARoP.." but for whatever reason (that's another thread ) I have no real push to do so.

    Now I will say one of the reasons I keep paying for my account is also so my lair won't get taken from me - for I know if that were to happen I would truly never return. The grind is just too much.

    I would like for there to be a reason for me to get to 100/100/100 - to really feel a need to get to "end game". But I guess not feeling Istaria really has an "end game" outside of the single dungeon and a handful of elites - to push to leaves me crafting when I bother to login.

    But time and again what motivates me to login is getting back with the community and getting back to my character's development.

    I'd love to have some game mechanic I truly enjoyed, to tel the devs "ooh more of this is awesome!" but there isn't. I wish there was more "end game" content of course, but the problems I have with combat and fighting make even getting to 100 DADV a chore and excerise in anger/frustration for me (again another thread).

    But I do still find reason to login, even after taking breaks. So as C'gan said - figure out what you WANT to do and what you ENJOY doing, and then advertise advertise advertise. I know there are regular groups that get together to fight content on Order - through advertising/announcements/communication. If you want to reestablish your lair as a lair of usefulness - ask around and post around and the community will tell you what it needs. If you want to setup a Connie to serve a purpose, post around and the community will gifve you that feedback.

    Figure out what you want adn then communicate it to all and you'll get at least a few other players I'm sure who will journey with you!
    Frith-Rae BridgeSol
    Great Elder of Keir Chet K'Eilerten
    Iea has returned.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Pries open one eye and looks about...

    I was in game when the game was in Beta way back when. I initially started with my Dragon, Tidebearius, but wanted to roll a biped just for the fun of it.

    I am part of a fantastic guild and love the fact that I can do solo things or group up and play round a bit.

    I remember the days of world projects, the cleansing of Feladan and that rebuilding. I also remember freeing the dryads and other events with the game...those things I miss as well as the anchors. It would be nice to see those again, but to be honest, I am not so sure we have the player base for that.

    This game is extremely unique in that you can multiclass both adventure and crafting, (biped that is) and have limitless options if you so choose to do them.

    I have taken breaks here and there and was gone at times for a couple of years to try other games out, but I always come back to the staple game for me. I am a crafting fool...and honest believe that Istaria has the best crafting around. I am working on maxing all my crafting and currently have 16 100 crafting classes. When I am done with that, I plan on doing the same with adventure as well as finish my plot.

    There are tons of things to do...I can get into the heat of battle whenever I wish or just relax, chat with friends....and do my grinding. Other games might offer something similar, but I love the mature level that this game seems to exude and find it quite refreshing....even after all these years.

    There are plenty of things to do, and yes...population might be a problem to some, but this is a relaxed refreshing game...at least that is my 2 cents worth.
    16 100 crafting classes....getting closer


  6. #6

    Default Re: Pries open one eye and looks about...

    Quote Originally Posted by Velea View Post
    I'm glad you brought this up, Raeshlavik. The timing is good, too, because your post does come at a time when we at Virtrium are looking at what to do in the coming year to build Istaria. And as a game designer, it always interests me to see people's answers to the question I believe you were ultimately asking... What keeps someone playing a game past reaching the "end" of the game?
    Thanks. Yes, that is really the question I was getting to.

    For me it's always been community - hence the reason I always find my way back here... Istaria has the best community out there.

    The thing that typically sends me packing again is rarely, if ever, do I actually see anyone from this fantastic community... It's basically several very nice people using a very think IM client.

    If I had to point at one thing I think would improve Istaria, it would be consolidating the player-base... Not combining the two servers (notes the ninja sent by the Order folks walking away dejectedly), but creating a reason for most of the players to be in the same area at least some of the time.

    Istaria is almost too big for its own good... I did most of my adventure levels without really seeing another player - and crafting can be even worse. Istaria is a great world for 3000 simultaneous players, but we're currently a few BBs in a box-car.

    If you're looking for things to spruce up, I think making the capital and seat of power for the living races a bit more, I dunno, useful would be a step in the right direction.

    The portal system makes it trivial for folks to get around - perhaps Tazoon could serve as some sort of overall quest hub for all levels. Bristugo is the defacto 'capital' right now due to the portals and it's where everyone kinda sits around and people watches - imagine if Tazoon was working and had the same sort of central portal hub thing going on, especially if people could make use of all the buildings... Let the Empire charge rent to place consigners or have storage there and sink a bit more money while making it easier to find things and spread some of the wealth around.

    When a new player asks for, well, anything - the answer would be "Tazoon".

    It might make world events a less contentious too - go for it, attack Tazoon with a massive Aegis army - outside the walls. If you're inside, you're mostly safe. If you want to fight back the undead hordes, there's the gate - get going!

    If you really want to go for broke; have your own Cataclysm... Force the living races to fall back to Tazoon and overrun all of the unused towns with level-appropriate WA. Blight anchor the world - make us work together for our right to live here.

    But, that's just my pie-in-the-sky take on things.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Pries open one eye and looks about...

    Very good points C'gan. Thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by C`gan View Post
    The trick to this game, like so many other MMOs is being PART of the community, not just watching it whiz by from pad to portal. If you're bored with one aspect of Istaria, by all means find another. So you've gotten your dragon all up and done. Have you tried a biped? Have you tried multiclassing a biped in a pair of pumpkin pants only? Have you ever raspberried Mohs or tossed a bucket of water on Ravager? Ever roasted marshmallows on Surtheim? Trust me, there's a lot more that goes on in Istaria than simple gaining of armor and equipment, building a plot or lair, and leveling to 100s.
    You are very correct - community is key in something like Istaria. It can be tricky to break into the community here though, where everyone knows everyone and has for years. I've been fairly successful in the past, though apparently I need to do it again.

    As for a biped, yes. It was, for me at least, equal parts confusion (what stat does what for this class), frustration (I now have four opinions on which stat does what), and apathy (not the beetles, again...).

    Maybe I should try it again.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Pries open one eye and looks about...

    Quote Originally Posted by Frith-Rae View Post
    As C'gan said - figure out what YOU Like to do most (and yea that can change!) and Istaria wil usually (though in small numbers perhaps) allow you to feed that.

    I'm not one for alts (in all my games). I certainly have zippo desire to level up any biped (or another dragon) character in Istaria. I too have subbed nonstop since the game started, and taken long breaks like yourself when I get burned out on the game.

    What keeps me coming back really is wanting to be a part of the community again. Keepign in touch with peeps on the forum, and reminding me that way of the game's people that I love to hang out with, kill stuff with, craft with - whatever with.
    I'm not much of an alt person either and tend to stick with something until it's 'done' - hence the reason I eventually made it to adulthood; it took me four years, but I did it.

    There is that carrot VI has put in front of me called ARoP and the completionist part of me is all aflutter to do it, but at this juncture I think it would be more work getting the people together than it's worth. I just hate interrupting several people to come work on my silly quest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frith-Rae View Post
    Now I will say one of the reasons I keep paying for my account is also so my lair won't get taken from me - for I know if that were to happen I would truly never return. The grind is just too much.

    I would like for there to be a reason for me to get to 100/100/100 - to really feel a need to get to "end game". But I guess not feeling Istaria really has an "end game" outside of the single dungeon and a handful of elites - to push to leaves me crafting when I bother to login.
    Yeah... You're right. I should log in and decon my lair so that when I have to move I'll at least be that much further along.

    I don't think Istaria really can have an end game, it's far too story-based. Unfortunately this leaves us with a lot of ancients hanging out on everything like so many multi-ton pigeons waiting for the next big threat to the living races.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frith-Rae View Post
    I'd love to have some game mechanic I truly enjoyed, to tel the devs "ooh more of this is awesome!" but there isn't. I wish there was more "end game" content of course, but the problems I have with combat and fighting make even getting to 100 DADV a chore and excerise in anger/frustration for me (again another thread).

    But I do still find reason to login, even after taking breaks. So as C'gan said - figure out what you WANT to do and what you ENJOY doing, and then advertise advertise advertise. I know there are regular groups that get together to fight content on Order - through advertising/announcements/communication. If you want to reestablish your lair as a lair of usefulness - ask around and post around and the community will tell you what it needs. If you want to setup a Connie to serve a purpose, post around and the community will gifve you that feedback.

    Figure out what you want adn then communicate it to all and you'll get at least a few other players I'm sure who will journey with you!
    I'll work on finding that 'thing'. Thank you very much for your thoughts on the subject, you gave me quite a few things to think about.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Pries open one eye and looks about...

    Quote Originally Posted by Raeshlavik View Post
    There is that carrot VI has put in front of me called ARoP and the completionist part of me is all aflutter to do it, but at this juncture I think it would be more work getting the people together than it's worth. I just hate interrupting several people to come work on my silly quest.
    I quite like helping people out on ARoP.... not least because I am grateful to the folks who helped me, and I feel I can best show that by assisting others where and when I can.

    If you're on Chaos and need a spare set of wings and claws and fangs, send Kesqui_unity a tell.
    - Kesqui - Formerly of Ice, now of Chaos, lair in Liak
    First Rebirth 12-12-2003 / Ascended to Ancient 12-12-2010

  10. #10

    Default Re: Pries open one eye and looks about...

    Quote Originally Posted by Raeshlavik View Post

    In this regard I have to ask, what have the folks who have played pretty much non-stop for so many years *do* in Istaria? I realize Istaria is mostly a social game at this point,
    This is mostly the reason why i play. and talking with others the reason they play also


    second reason i hang around is because this is the only mmo with dragons, when another mmo with dragons come out the Hasia clan will go for a long slumber in their lair

  11. #11

    Default Re: Pries open one eye and looks about...

    Flame and me play Istaria 7 years now. Without a break.

    To be honest, there still are things that I would like to do, but do not have time-because we are always too busy ingame.
    E.g. play the new t2 content with my hatchie.
    I took me time to explore the new landscapes-and it was worth it!!
    So many little things you might not see if youč out there for crafting or fighting.
    I want to finnish doom quests with LovsKin on Chaos.
    I would like to test new content on blight.
    I want to fight Reklar to(finally) get the scale or Valkor`s claw.
    I need the the queen`s drop to put the banner on my plot.
    I need to improve my lairshaping.
    I should learn more about bipeds.
    Play quests that are not finnished.

    So what am I doing atm?
    3 of my closest friends bought big plots and build them atm- I help a bit- and its fun.
    Some folks from my chat channel startet with Doom quests. I help- its much fun.
    A very dear friend lost all his high level chars and levels a human atm (free2play)- I give some support.
    We do epic hunts on weekends (no Reklar no Queen:-(( )

    So what did I do the last 7 years?

    I`m opti as a drag could be (in my eyes)
    I have all scales a drag needs (and that are much^^)
    We have 2 plots and a lair, Flame has a biped who is gonna be uber soon.
    Thats all^^

    edit: Sometimes I organize an event or two^^
    YOU told me to play a dragon!

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Pries open one eye and looks about...

    Imho the very concept of "end game" is wrong.

    With MMOs getting larger, richer and involving people to spend years of their life it makes no sense to have an hard ceiling to what they can do.

    Of course content does not produce itself and I know of people who would play 18+ hours a day in a new game till they finish it. It's normal, it's the same that happens with long awaited good books after all.

    In this regard I'd have such a list of possible improvements that would make the forum crash (!)

    In the mean time, Istaria should improve its crafting (I am not telling blasphemy, the craft system is huge but repetitive every 20 levels every school) but most of all define a new open ended model. Or at least a model where a player *feels* his growth even if he sees it'll take many years of game to do it.

    I don't know how to share an example without mentioning other MMOs (I played a bunch), there's one that is based in space that managed to create a ton of mini-games and where human relations allow to form organization with thousands of players in an ethernal conquest of the best regions.

    As of now Istaria has its player base as "minigame" (let's call it "DracoBook.com") but passing the years it is bound to shrink, no tangible initiative to attract new players seems to happen. This is the only criticism I can make to Vi given their numbers, have yet to find an explanation why the horror at trying getting more players. They won't come because you add revamped T2 nor the existing playerbase has numbers enough to "recruit" enough friends. There's really some advertisement to be done, one that works.
    Vahrokh Vain - Ancient dragon level 100 adv 100 craft 34M of untainted, fireworks and other crap free hoard.
    Isarion - Reaver Healer Spiritist, many craft classes.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Pries open one eye and looks about...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vahrokh View Post
    Imho the very concept of "end game" is wrong.

    With MMOs getting larger, richer and involving people to spend years of their life it makes no sense to have an hard ceiling to what they can do.
    I agree. The game you refer to for your crafting ideas is essentially unlimited as it has no "levels" - it is truly skill-based. If I were a bigger fan of the Space Opera genera, that's where I'd be spending all of my time... And with real avatars and Dust514, I might end up there anyways. A friend of mine is a bit over 60 million skill points (5 years of play, non stop), and can't fly anything bigger than a logistics ship, so about half of the game is still new territory for him.

    The 800 pound gorilla of the MMO space is the exact opposite - they continually find ways to circumvent the levels leading to the current cap, and then rely on item acquisition to provide granularity once a player is there... You can be level 80 for a very long time and still feel as if you are progressing.

    That was until very recently where they cleanly divided the player base into 'hardcore raiders' and 'everyone else' by simultaneously providing two new races, switching around the race/class combinations, and pressing the big reset button for the world. This left the raiders to simply level 5 more levels and then get busy with the gearing for progressively harder instances, while everyone else rolled an alt and got busy exploring the new-old world.

    One thing that happened that I find interesting is that they felt the lower level parts of the world appeared empty, and spent quite a bit of effort forcing the player base back into it... It certainly did make the capitals feel more 'alive' when there were hundreds of people there advertising their wares, chatting about their latest adventures, or getting the next batch of quests.

    Hence the reason for my suggestion above.

    (When I play, I play on Wyrmrest Accord, which has the distinction of being the best RP server and the worst progression (raiding) server in the world for this MMO... So my observations are based on a great number of what we here would call 'good' players. )

    But, all of that MMO 'bling' comes with a pretty large time cost, and I have far too many hobbies to invest enough time into it to keep up with the friends who play it. That and the game is so big, with so many people, that it is impossible to build any sort of community in it.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Pries open one eye and looks about...

    Quote Originally Posted by Raeshlavik View Post

    For me it's always been community - hence the reason I always find my way back here... Istaria has the best community out there.

    The thing that typically sends me packing again is rarely, if ever, do I actually see anyone from this fantastic community... It's basically several very nice people using a very think IM client.

    If I had to point at one thing I think would improve Istaria, it would be consolidating the player-base... Not combining the two servers (notes the ninja sent by the Order folks walking away dejectedly), but creating a reason for most of the players to be in the same area at least some of the time.

    I agree. The most upsetting thing for me right now is logging on and seeing so few online. Recently I have been lucky to see someone I know more than once a week.
    I'd love for there to be something in the game to pull in new players and old players out of the woodwork especially, but the only thing I've experienced that does this are events-- either holiday celebration events, or spawning in random Aegis attacks like before... but sadly it has been said that is not going to happen. Perhaps I am just being nostalgic but that was always great for players popping out of the woodwork via word of mouth.

    Big crunchy ancient dragoness of Order

  15. #15

    Default Re: Pries open one eye and looks about...

    I'll only comment on the consolidating part..

    I think Tazoon would be bad for the same reason its always been bad - because its lagtastic/crashtastic for most players. Its why Its never been made a real "capital" city - because its never been unlaggtastic .

    I felt the devs took away from the greater odds of seeing people out and about starting with the first tier revisions - when Dralk and Chiconis (as well as others but those are the ones that effected dragons the most) stopped being the next steps for leveling dragons, the rate of seeing others in game dropped for me dramatically. They stopped having real "racial" sets of cities and just turned the whole tier system into a "clone" (IMO) of all the other games. When Chic was the next logical stop for both crafting and adventuring for dragons, and Dralk after that - you tended to see more players in both cities as they levled up. Now, other than running in for a training visit - you don't see anyone. To me, that was the "beginning of the end" of seeing people about in game wihtout taking special trips to places.

    But yea now the real "hubs" would be Bristugo and the New Player Island (can't remember the name I just blanked lol). If you want to see people odds are that's the best place. Almost the only place, anymore .
    Frith-Rae BridgeSol
    Great Elder of Keir Chet K'Eilerten
    Iea has returned.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Pries open one eye and looks about...

    Quote Originally Posted by Frith-Rae View Post
    I'll only comment on the consolidating part..

    I think Tazoon would be bad for the same reason its always been bad - because its lagtastic/crashtastic for most players. Its why Its never been made a real "capital" city - because its never been unlaggtastic .
    I agree that it's always been bad, but there's the possibility it can be fixed, so I tossed it out there.

    I remember back when Lagoon not only had NPCs there, but a lot of the buildings had furniture too...

    I was there last night with my new biped though, and on my laptop it ran pretty nice... Then again my laptop is essentially alien technology from the far future combined with the black sorcery of the Wizard of Framerate when compared to the high-end gaming system I had back in 2004 - which was probably about the same processing and graphics capability of the common smart phone these days.

    Living in the future is fun!

    Quote Originally Posted by Frith-Rae View Post
    But yea now the real "hubs" would be Bristugo and the New Player Island (can't remember the name I just blanked lol). If you want to see people odds are that's the best place. Almost the only place, anymore .
    That's been my experience as well.

    Basically, for the first ten levels you'll run across the occasional ancient lounging on top of the bank building or out in the resource fields, some folks restocking the consigner, and a half dozen new players running around. But as soon as you have to leave New Trismus and head for Kion, that's it - you're on your own unless you managed to pick up a friend/guild in that couple hours you were on the starter island.

    The other issue is that some large percentage of the player base is near or at the level cap - so even if a new player does manage to score a guild invite, they're pretty much playing by themselves unless they're really into the RP aspect of the game.

    In short, Istaria just isn't very new player friendly;

    After level ten it's a solo game in a vast, often confusing, non-linear, and highly dangerous world.
    (some folks thrive with this, but based on my observations of other MMOs, the newer generation of MMO player needs a bit more structure I think. I hear good things about the Tier-2 revamp - I plan to check that out as soon as my new biped is able)

    The game is wonderfully complex, and with complexity comes the need for a very complex UI - which some long-term folks still haven't completely figured out.
    (getting chat configured for something like NPA pretty much requires a new player to get help - unfortunately they cant get the chat configured to ask for help. I suggest making NPA official and default in the UI)

    Most of the players you do find when you are new are north of level 50 and the game will kill you if you group with them.
    (the grouping restrictions really should be relaxed if they haven't already, and maybe find a way to let players temporarily 'de-level' just so the ancients and uberpeds can interact with the occasional new player outside of giving them stuff)

    The most interesting facets of Istaria, in my humble opinion, are really lifer-only due to the time required to get to them - unrestricted flight and plots/lairs.
    (I assume this cant really be fixed, but I do see it as a source of frustration for the new player who dreams of 'being the dragon' and 'building the world' only to find out that, no, they really cant do that for a couple months minimum and only if they have the backing of a guild. I suggest finding a way to let new players dabble in these aspects of the game earlier in their term - 'renting' plots/lairs for short durations with a timed decon and novian return policy and a couple quests that let a hatching 'fly' for some timed duration to get from one quest hub to another - just to keep the desire alive - are examples.)

    These are just freeform thoughts, they may or may not apply, or even be good thoughts, so no guarantee of usefullness is expressed or implied.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Pries open one eye and looks about...

    Quote Originally Posted by Raeshlavik View Post
    After level ten it's a solo game in a vast, often confusing, non-linear, and highly dangerous world.
    Unless you make use of the chat channels and /who to find out if there are folks of similar level to you that'd like to group up.

    a couple quests that let a hatching 'fly' for some timed duration to get from one quest hub to another - just to keep the desire alive
    And here I thought hatchling-glide was perfect for that!
    - Kesqui - Formerly of Ice, now of Chaos, lair in Liak
    First Rebirth 12-12-2003 / Ascended to Ancient 12-12-2010

  18. #18

    Default Re: Pries open one eye and looks about...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kesqui View Post
    Unless you make use of the chat channels and /who to find out if there are folks of similar level to you that'd like to group up.
    True, this is the way one would find similar level players but it's problematic for two reasons:

    One, chat setup seems to be hard to grasp for most new players - at least this has been my observation during new player duty in New Trismus. (EOI, when it was fully operational, pretty much kept 2-3 people in NT most nights as ambassadors to make things easier for new folks. We were doing everything we could to bring in new players, so we felt obligated to show them a good time when they showed up.)

    Two, the chances of someone being out there near enough to your level to keep the game from killing the lower level player is pretty slim in my experience. I'm currently a 'new player' with my biped and at least on Chaos there just wasn't anyone in my level range at any time I was on last night... And I know how to use the tools to find folks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kesqui View Post
    And here I thought hatchling-glide was perfect for that!
    Again true, I had forgotten about the new glide function. Hopefully this sates the desires of new players looking for a truly "Dragon" experience until they hit around level 40.

    I know for me, having leveled a Dragon to around 30 about a half dozen times now and giving up, that at about level 30 it seems that the goal posts are still just so darn far away. At 30 I began to realize that every ten levels is essentially the same thing I did for the last ten levels, just with critters that hit harder and/or are a different color. I would really begin to question if the whole flight thing is worth another 2-3 ten-level sets of the same thing I've already done just to get to a quest line I'd have to find people to help with - when I've not really seen any people...

    The Tier-2 revamp has hopefully fixed this by breaking up the 'same quest, different critter' effect I'm so familiar with... I'll know soon enough.

    The work vs. reward for flight is skewed in my opinion... You have to rinse and repeat for quite a while to get something that might not be all that it looks like it is, and of course as a Dragon you don't have the option to multi-class and at least mix things up a bit... It's 50 levels of waiting for gold rage to come off cooldown before you can fly.

    I realize RoP can begin at 30 by the way, there is just no way a Dragon can do any of it without some pretty potent assistance that a new player probably wont have - and at 50 you can at least kill the non-named stuff, which makes getting help easier if all you need are the bosses.

    Getting access to true flight, even for a limited duration, a couple of times during the trek I believe would keep the enthusiasm up to actually get there, because it really is cool.

    Of course this is just my observation and others may be different... But I note I don't see near as many ascensions as I see hatchlings every time I'm around for a couple months, and I very rarely see a level 30-70 adult either - so who knows.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Pries open one eye and looks about...

    We seem to have strayed deep into 'suggestion' territory so, to get things back on Velea's target topic...

    "What keeps someone playing a game past reaching the "end" of the game?"

    I had to sit and really think the question over. I've hit the 'end' in several MMOs at this point...

    In EQ I spent a great deal of time raiding, but that was just the thing I did because I was still playing to hang out with friends I had gotten interested in the game.

    Shadowbane kept my interest for a very, very long time because, even though I was max level and well geared, the 'game of thrones' aspects of it were constantly fresh and invigorating... Imagine building your guild town in Istaria and then having to defend and repair it all the time, and if you were an expansionist guild, trying to take out other guilds for their lands and resources.

    It was brutal, but it was also probably the most fun I've ever had in an MMO... I do so wish Istaria had a server where the WA was actively trying to undo everything we were doing, giving us reasons to build weapons and walls and repair that which has been destroyed... Then it would matter not that everyone has achieved multiple 100s, we'd be too busy fighting our way to an anchor to save someone's guild town from destruction or crafting weapons and armor to replace that which has been wrecked in battle to worry about it much.

    The recent MMO was WoW... Though I found it pretty easy to cancel my sub and uninstall it even though a half dozen folks I know here locally are still playing it... Probably because I've 'beaten' it three times now, and by beating, I mean gotten to a point where I was repeating the same content over and over and over just to have a reason to log in. The new angle of just repeating random instances over and over quickly soured me on the expansion - that and I play a healer in most MMOs, and someone decided that the healer's job didn't suck enough so they made it even worse.

    I can also be found quite often in Second Life (with my highly customized Seawolf Dragon avatar) which is so open-ended it really doesn't qualify as an MMO.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Pries open one eye and looks about...

    Quote Originally Posted by Frith-Rae View Post
    ...I think Tazoon would be bad for the same reason its always been bad - because its lagtastic/crashtastic for most players. Its why Its never been made a real "capital" city - because its never been unlaggtastic ...
    That's not really the case anymore. I don't have issues in tazoon anyway.

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