so this is a crafting game?

[Blue Hasia]

this this is a crafting game right?

here is a handy spreed sheet to show how unbalanced the crafting is in this game. This sheet shows mostly only one time use items that i could think of off hand please feel free to let me know if i miss anything. and things on the least are things that can sell on a connie

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?...thkey=CIuTq90M


as can be seen on this sheet dragons dont got much as a fun craft school(in fact nothing) and since bipeds control this type of craft (usable items) money flows from dragons to bipeds.

not on this list because i could not confirm this are socket crystal tech kits. i could not confirm if that was in game and if a biped only craft.

note, only things that are one time use belong on this list, disk are an exception on this list since it seems biped disk can be used by dragons but dragon disk can not. spells armor, weapons are not one time use items and are usually custom ordered and dont end up being on a connie

[Dhalin]

I wouldn't be surprised if this thread gets locked because it is a "Dragons vs Biped" theme, but you know, you're right and this wouldn't be the first time this type of thing was said.

Dragons get zero craftable consumables whatsoever.

Dragons, however, need said consumables just as much (moreso, since we have no Gifts except Dragon's Gift and Velocity) as bipeds do.

The least they could do, is give us the ability to make crystals... while not consumable, they would still at least be sell-able on the connie and would be something that dragons could make, that bipeds would actually have a use for.

This has also been suggested many moons ago, but they show no signs whatsoever of even considering the idea of allowing dragons to make crystals, even though it makes perfect sense.

[Blue Hasia]

The least they could do, is give us the ability to make crystals... while not consumable, they would still at least be sell-able on the connie and would be something that dragons could make, that bipeds would actually have a use for.

their lies a problem if their not consumable then it turns into a one time craft deal, like teched spells. Teched spells are not a large market most of the time everyone gathers the material themselves and makes it or pass the comps over to some one who can craft it at no charge.

[Dhalin]

their lies a problem if their not consumable then it turns into a one time craft deal, like teched spells. Teched spells are not a large market most of the time everyone gathers the material themselves and makes it or pass the comps over to some one who can craft it at no charge.

Unless, of course, it involves materials they cannot get on their own, like azulyte crystals.

Bipeds cannot gather azulyte.

If Dragons were able to craft crystals (we COULD also make CONSUMABLE crystals that have similar effects to potions and scrolls, and of course, they can't/wouldn't stack), then the bipeds would have no choice, but to buy from dragons or have dragon friends or dragon alts make said crystals.

[Jorev1]

But dragons can fly.

[Dhalin]

But dragons can fly.

So, because dragons can fly, that means that dragons should be entirely 100% incapable of contributing anything to the marketplace whatsoever beyond farming tech comps, forms, and techs?

[Jorev1]

So play a biped, no one is forcing you to play a dragon.

[Shinkuu]

There is a HUGE disparity in the amount of work each has to do in order to craft ANYTHING.

Bipeds have 19 Crafting Schools! Many of which are needed in order to allow others to function at anything other than an abysmal rate.

Dragons have... 2 Crafting Schools. Oh wow... So hard... They level Dragon Craft alone and are able to become rather good at harvesting all they need to harvest and make most anything they need to make. Wish it was nearly that easy as a Biped.

Also Dragons can Build Lairs by themselves with JUST those 2 Schools. Now let us look at how that goes for a Biped (keeping in mind Lairs are MUCH larger than Plots are)

For a Biped to make a Plot Solo they must master Fitting, Mason, Weaving, Enchanting, and Carpentry. However to make any of the tools they will need to be able to do any of that they also need Blacksmith or Tinkerer. To mine, gather, and process raw mats sometime this year they need Miner and Gatherer. They also need Tinkerer to make the Disks they need and their Cargo Gear because they do not come with nearly the same amount of immense personal storage as a Dragon.

Now add to that the fact that they must wear Cargo Gear (Clothes) and hold a tool while doing this material gathering while a Dragon by contrast can be fully battle ready the whole time.

Dragons can also fly back and forth WITH their Disks giving them serious hauling speed advantages.


I must also say that Istaria is not JUST a Crafting Game it is both Crafting and Adventuring. Dragons are also much better suited to getting Comps than Bipeds because it is INFINITELY easier to get to hunting spots with Wings and to get out of harms way if things go wrong.

However, should Dragons be permitted to make some things that Bipeds or both can use? I would certainly say: Yes.

Some suggested they could make Crystals, like the ones you put into sockets or one shot Crystals maybe a bit like Potions or maybe more like Charms. Either of those would be very useful and I would back them being included.

Should Bipeds have more things to sell than Dragons in terms of crafting? Here I must honestly say: Yes. Because it is a lot harder for the Bipeds, and they MUST diversify much more in order to make anything, they should have a fair bit more to offer than the Dragons who do not seem to even care for finer crafts that much in their outlook and attitude by game Lore. Dragons perhaps are simply too large and too lacking in manual dexterity to make many intricate things.

Last note here: You may purposefully have left them out due to not being one shot things but Spells can be made by either and in my experience it is much easier to make them as a Dragon. Dragon Crafting gives you all you need to get the Spell Shards, Essence Orbs, and to make the Spell itself where as for a Biped being as efficient once again requires mastering Miner, Gatherer, Spellcafter, and possibly Tinkerer.

[Shinkuu]

note, only things that are one time use belong on this list, disk are an exception on this list since it seems biped disk can be used by dragons but dragon disk can not. spells armor, weapons are not one time use items and are usually custom ordered and dont end up being on a connie

PS: I sell weapons, scales, armor, and claws on the Connie all the time quite successfully. Lack of real competition = easy sales.

[Blue Hasia]

shinkuu, you kind of missed the point of this topic, its about usable items and not about lair shaping vs plot building please save that for another topic.


also no one said if and when dragons can finally craft usable items it would be easy. i would love it to be hard and complex. but if the item is hard and complex i also hope the reward for the craft item will be well worth it.

[Shinkuu]

shinkuu, you kind of missed the point of this topic, its about usable items and not about lair shaping vs plot building please save that for another topic.


also no one said if and when dragons can finally craft usable items it would be easy. i would love it to be hard and complex. but if the item is hard and complex i also hope the reward for the craft item will be well worth it.

It was just an example of the immense gap in difficulty it takes to arrive at the creation of ANYTHING when comparing Dragon Crafting to Bipeds. As I mentioned later to make the things you are so envious of still requires any Biped at least 3 to 4 Schools to produce any one of them whereas Dragons can currently craft a Salable item, which you totally ignored, (Spells, especially teched ones) with just one class.

Speaking of which, unteched spells are required for making Scrolls so the wise Dragon might get the bright idea to work with a Biped and make them the spells they need for the Scrolls they want in exchange for a lowering of the price or a negation of it.

If your assertion is that Dragons can make NO item that can be sold or would be useful to anyone besides Dragons then you would be flat-out in error. If your assertion is instead that Dragons cannot make as many items that can be sold or would be useful to anyone besides Dragons when compared to Bipeds making items that can be sold or would be useful to anyone besides Bipeds then you are correct.

What I am getting at is that because the latter assertion is factual that I am of the opinion that indeed it should be altered in such a fashion as to lessen the utter domination the Bipeds currently have BUT also am of the Belief that due to the greater difficulty in creating items that the Bipeds have justification to maintain a solid lead in this regard. Essentially, a few more universally useful Dragon Crafted items would be great but only a couple because the Bipeds should still own that particular market and it seems to me the reason WHY the Devs set it up in that fashion initially was because of that particular disparity in difficulty they just were a little bit too harsh.

[LOVWYRM]

Very well stated, Shinkuu.
I sign everything you`ve said.
And in my opinion its not off topic! Those facts have to be considered too!

Though Blue I get your point.
And cause me and some of my friends ARE in urgend need of low level crystals,
and I am running out of t6 (stats) ones, cause I nearly gave away all I had,
I support the idea that drags should be able to make them.
I see a good market for this atm. At least on order.

And, hey Joe: just two meaty sentences-and prob is solved?

[Dhalin]

Last note here: You may purposefully have left them out due to not being one shot things but Spells can be made by either and in my experience it is much easier to make them as a Dragon. Dragon Crafting gives you all you need to get the Spell Shards, Essence Orbs, and to make the Spell itself where as for a Biped being as efficient once again requires mastering Miner, Gatherer, Spellcafter, and possibly Tinkerer.

Except Bipeds get 10/level in Spellcrafting, while DCRA gets only 8, making a lot of T5 spells much harder to make if you're a dragon.

Due to this, dragons will need entire scale sets with full +Spellcraft buffs to make some of those at decent efficiency, while bipeds can nearly do it naked, given there's a good 100-point difference in skill there.

But I do suppose that since they can fly, and gather the materials easier... meh.

It seems the only way to actually *really* play this game, is to level one of each, and just suck the time losses in trying to level both characters up to max to really get to be able to experience the whole game.

Still, it'd be nice if dragons had at least -1- consumable that is needed by both, and cannot be made by bipeds. Just one. Not asking for an entire revamp of Dragons vs Biped, just 1 item type.

Crystals would really be nice; even if they were just weaker stat crystals (better ones would drop from WA, but still, a crafted T5 crystal should be superior to a T4 dropped crystal) as crystals can be quite difficult to get at times.

I have lots of sockets in tools and armor that are either empty, or filled with lesser-tier or filled with crystals whose stats aren't what I want/need.

[Shian]

I really hate that in every Dragon vs. Biped thread, the copout is ALWAYS "But dragons can fly" no matter what the argument is.

Yes, I would love to make a consumable item that is wanted by both. Even the thing we can craft bipeds cannot use.

[Kesqui]

I really hate that in every Dragon vs. Biped thread, the copout is ALWAYS "But dragons can fly" no matter what the argument is.

Yes, I would love to make a consumable item that is wanted by both. Even the thing we can craft bipeds cannot use.

Exactly.... bipeds can run very, very fast - and their T2 silos don't take up twice as much space with not even twice as much bulk in their plots. But the simple fact is that if I wanted to play a *biped* I could play any game out there... it's only Istaria that lets me play my race-of-choice.

I would also like to be able to make consumable/socketable crystals that bipeds want and bipeds can't make.

[Jorev1]

I find it disingenuous that someone who multiboxes several dragon characters is crying about not having access to biped abilities.
Is this an admission that leveling a biped takes skill and effort while leveling a dragon does not?

[LungTien Temeraire]

I don't want to take a part in any biped vs dragon stuff, but I'd say dragon crafting levelling takes a long time, and lairshaping levelling even more, requiring more resources, and more complicated crafted items.

[Kesqui]

I find it disingenuous that someone who multiboxes several dragon characters is crying about not having access to biped abilities.
Is this an admission that leveling a biped takes skill and effort while leveling a dragon does not?

Probably not, no.

Some of us do NOT want to play bipeds. If a biped character was my only choice in this game, I would not play *at all*. I don't care how "easy" or "hard" it is to level as one or another. What I care about is the shape of my toon. Yes, it's that simple.

No wings, no tail, no play.

But it sure would be nice to be able to craft something that a biped needs for once, so that I could, say, trade half a dozen of that for the half-dozen stone reaping potions I need. Or one or two of those for a special dye for a special scale.

[Jorev1]

As mentioned before, with your ability to fly, you have an edge when it comes to harvesting raw resources. Seems to me there is always a demand for raw or processed resources.

[Kesqui]

Sure, I can fly directly somewhere that someone else can walk to (and with the right gear, faster than I can fly). But I'd sooner make things that are actually properly *desirable* to have - like crystals, for example - that even a determined biped can't make for themselves.

Just like this determined dragon can't make her own reaping potions.

Not saying "make bipeds less fun/cool/difficult/whatever" ... just saying "would like fun/cool/etc adding to dragons."