Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 87

Thread: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment

  1. #21

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment

    Quote Originally Posted by awdz View Post
    I like the idea of refurbished gear being available for tiers II - IV as well as tier I. By the time they get to the higher tiers, they will most likely be looking for crafters who can make properly tech'd gear anyway. I do not see how it hurts to have something minimal available to the desperate. It's not like crafters are falling over each other looking for business at the middle tiers.
    I like this idea, mostly.

    I have reservations that by doing such we will be programming the new
    players into believing that the Imperium will provide them with everything.
    With this early training and experience of "the Empire will provide all" they
    will get frustrated when they hit "the end" of those provisions. At the risk
    of sounding negative, I honestly feel like you are attempting to "cure
    stupid".

    To me, it would best serve if players were trained from the beginning
    how to get the best gear. Think raising a Child, it is the early formative
    years (levels) that will create the foundation. Teach them yes, just don't coddle them and give them what they are whining for.
    Vendors should steer the new players to look for Crafters for their
    specific needs.
    *Yoda voice* Mighty Dragon Crafter? Icabald, You seek Icabald, Yes!

    I'd really really really like to see a system where the Crafters can have
    their name(s) and possibly an Item Displayed as advertisement.
    An Imperial Vendor can show players a list of Available (Online) crafters
    for a specific set of gear. (Modified Player search - Crafting - Trade - Tier/Lvl of skill = List)

    Para-Quote Sephi here -- My words are the wind.....

    Andaras

  2. #22

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment

    Quote Originally Posted by Holth View Post
    There is a big difference between making the game too easy and making the game easy to play. Istaria is not easy and it's also not easy to play. The easy to play part is what needs to be fixed to retain new players.
    I think just about everyone agrees here.

    It has been suggested before in another thread that the best way to get folks the things they need is to teach them how to craft. Example: Blacksmith trainer gives you a quest to make "x" number of bronze bars.
    Blacksmith trainer then gives you a formula to make "x" number of bronze mining picks.
    Blacksmith trainer gives you a quest to make "x" number of sandstone bricks.
    Blacksmith trainer then gives you a quest to make "x" number of sandstone essence siphons.
    Rinse, repeat till you have all the tool forms you want.
    What if someone doesn't want to craft? Are we going to force everyone to craft, and make their own stuff, when every other MMORPG on the market encourages a player-driven market?

    Now honestly, with the way consignment systems work, and the lack of gear obtained from quests, trying to force a player-driven market isn't working in Istaria.

    That's why this suggestion is about as good as we're gonna get to allowing people access to unteched gear. If they want tech'd stuff, then yes, they gotta go tot he market or make it themselves. And trust me, trying to fight things with unteched gear at T3+ sucks. But it is better than being absolutely stuck because you're using T2 tech'd armor at Lv41+ and are having serious trouble killing mobs with that old outdated equipment.

    These quests can be added to every beginner crafting trainer for all formulas and techs. This way new players are taught how to craft, given what they need to craft, and don't spend days running around in circles trying to understand crafting. Seeing that you have to do "a" to make "b" but you also have to do "b" to make "a" is what causes frustration and loss of new players.
    Again, not everyone wants to craft. Crafting is monotonous, and quite boring to some players. Other players love it. Myself? I'm on the fence. I can do it, but not a lot of it at once. Trying to get up to where you can make your own platemail takes at least ten times longer than leveling an adventurer school capable of equipping that plate armor to 11. Let's not forget that once you get to Tier 3, leveling Armorer gets a whole lot worse, due to the fact you're forced to work on Alloy metals. So I don't think it'd be all that "off" to say 20x the time to level through one tier to make the armor for your next 10 levels of adventurer.

    I think that new players should receive something from their first adventure school trainer that gives them access to a full set of refurbished armour and weapons. Their first crafting trainer should also furnish them with a refurbished level 5 cargo disk along with the tools and basic resource forms they currently get. And an explanation of how to get the quests as I listed above.
    The problem with Refurb armor, though, is that you might as well be naked, there's not much difference. I say, normal un-tech'd armor is the way to go.

    Heck, if you ask me, instead of making vendor armor, give bipeds quests every 10 levels for every school that allows you to quest 1 piece of basic armor. do a quest, get a weapon pertinent to that school. Do another quest, get a body armor for that school/level. Do yet another quest, get another piece of armor, maybe legs. Make it similar to the dragon quests.

    The thrill (or "hook" of Istaria) is learning to do things for yourself.
    Unless you're being forced to do something you don't really have any interest in doing. Then it is the most giant turn-off possible.

  3. #23

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment

    Was thinking about this and couldn't make up my mind if it would cause problems further down the road (IE when they hit T2).

    My way of thinking is to cheat a little bit. Yes allow unteched items to be sold, but instead of putting them on the individual trainers, put them on the New Trismus consigner instead.

    Why?


    • The New Trismus consigner is one of the 1st places a new player hits once they enter New Trismus
    • It's a focal point on New Trismus
    • Gives the impression of greater availability of trade (this is the cheeky bit)
    • The trainers are spreadout across New Trismus and Lesser Aradoth, a new player would not be able to reach the likes of Sslanis without running the gauntlet of the mobs to get there
    • With formulas and already made versions of the items on a trainer, which of the 2 is a new player most likely to buy?

    The other option I like is the one where the beginner training quests give you the correct gear to use. For example Dragon quests in New Trismus already do that and give a player scales and a claw to use (and teach making them).

    Also agree that the level 5 Standard Sandstone Cargo Disc should be available to buy, or given by a quest.
    Chasing
    Chaos Shard
    Scarlet Dawn


  4. #24

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment

    It's a catch-22 now with the crafting verses the gear you need to play.

    To be Truthfull I think Tier 1-5 Unteched Armor/Weapons/Spells and Tools should be sold by npc's.

    Lets be truthfull this is not going to harm crafters income much. As this will promote more players to stay with Istaria longer. And thoughs players will then not get fustrated when looking for a crafter to make stuff for them. Now they can get the very basic and later when they find someone they can get what the realy want.

    I also think a new NPC is realy realy realy needed. A Orders NPC were a player can place a open order to be filled for coin. i.e. I place a Order up for a Tier 3 E-bolt with Tech-3 Stun/damg inc. and Range.

    I would just use the crafting interface to let buyers pre-build the iteams as they wished built. Then put the iteam up on the Order's NPC for crafters to come buy and see what wishs they can full fill today. The coin go's to the craft the iteam drops into the buys vaults.
    Nothing But Love! That's what makes Dragons Fly!

  5. #25

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment

    I thought the whole point to having blighted armour and weapons/shields drop off of mobs was so that if someone chooses not to craft they don't have to. There is already a system in game for pure adventurers to get a full set of armour and weapons by hunting for them. And blighted gear is already teched. Some of it with better techs than crafters can make.

    My concern with putting pre-made armour and such on trainers is this .. what will stop someone from buying a basic scalemail helmet from a trainer and dropping a socket tech on it? Now that helmet becomes exactly the same as the best player crafted helmet. Ditto for weapons and shields. Instead of selling basic armour/weapons on trainers would it not be much easier to spread out the loot drops of blighted gear on lower tier mobs so anyone that chooses to not craft or hire a crafter can loot what they need.

    Thaalia of Order

  6. #26

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment

    Quote Originally Posted by Holth View Post
    I thought the whole point to having blighted armour and weapons/shields drop off of mobs was so that if someone chooses not to craft they don't have to. There is already a system in game for pure adventurers to get a full set of armour and weapons by hunting for them. And blighted gear is already teched. Some of it with better techs than crafters can make.
    Blighted armor?

    Are you serious?

    I didn't hear you say that, did I?

    One, it can take hours and days and months to get a full suit of any particular type of armor to drop from WA mobs..... oh, did I mention you have to fight WA mobs for this Blighted Armor? The same WA mobs who slaughter you unless you're at the top of your game past NT (if you were, you'd have tech'd, crafted gear). And even then, if a Blighted Armor DOES drop, it might have something stupid like +stat you don't care about, -stat you DO care about.

    My concern with putting pre-made armour and such on trainers is this .. what will stop someone from buying a basic scalemail helmet from a trainer and dropping a socket tech on it? Now that helmet becomes exactly the same as the best player crafted helmet. Ditto for weapons and shields. Instead of selling basic armour/weapons on trainers would it not be much easier to spread out the loot drops of blighted gear on lower tier mobs so anyone that chooses to not craft or hire a crafter can loot what they need.
    Since when are there Socket Tech Kits? Did they add those? Last I checked, to put a socket on a piece of armor, you had to place the socket on it during the item's creation. There are some tech kits out there, but mostly for dragon techs unless they changed it.

    I think my idea of putting in quests for Bipeds is the best one: Let Bipeds do quests every 10 levels for a suit of armor and a weapon pertinent to their school.

    It makes Biped School leveling a lot less boring and monotonous, gives Bipeds a little extra XP and coin from these quests, plus a piece of basic armor.

    Win Win Win for everyone.

  7. #27

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment

    ( Yesterday on Order-shard:

    2 new players, x and y in
    market and in 2 diff open guild chats, at different times
    (but within the about 5h I was on):
    X: " Hi I`m a new player, can someone make me (beginner armor)
    (no answer, cause only a hand full of players on)
    some time later same question
    Lov: "Sry, I`m drag- can`t do"
    X: "why?"
    I made a tell
    X:"Why?"
    Lov: "I send you a tell"
    X"where?"
    tried to explain
    X: "how do I install all that chats?"
    Lov" sry I`m not a native speaker, can`t explain"
    Lov (in 2 chats)"can someone pls help me here?
    Someone kindly helped.
    This went on for a while-next time I looked X was gone.

    Y: " hi, I`m a new player, the trainer says I need that tool, can some pls make that for me?"
    player A: "which tool?"
    Y:"dunno"
    Players B: which school?"
    Y:" not sure"
    meanwhile other players tried to help.
    You all can imagine the following conversation.
    Then silence for a while.
    player C:"Y, are you still here?"
    Y:" yes"
    Player C: "Did you get your tool?"
    Y: "No- can you make it?"
    Player C:"what do you need?...................random

    At a certain point, all involved were frustrated and exhausted.
    They/we talked about thats impossible to help.
    Some did not answer to Y anymore (which I can understand)
    Y left the game (and the group he/she was invited to)with the famous last words: "bye all, sry for bothering"

    An exception? All too blonde to play Istaria?

    Sry for that long post- np for me if its deleted cause its derailing.
    But did not want toplace it on rant forum, cause it fits here in my eyes. )
    YOU told me to play a dragon!

  8. #28

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment

    I agree, Lovyrm, this is rather frustrating. How could players help Y if this one don't even tell them how they could help him and what he needs?
    There'll always be people like that who'll come, then leave quickly... like some, sometimes who just spam the channels asking for dads, dads and not caring about anything else... then, one or two days later, they disappear to never come back.

  9. #29

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment

    you got me wrong Lung.

    I felt pitty for the new players!
    And for us, who sometimes get tired to help the 1000. new player
    cause Istaria is so hard to play as a beginner.
    Even more difficult for those , who`s choosen Istaria to be their first mmorpg.
    YOU told me to play a dragon!

  10. #30

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment

    Re: Joe's idea and that being "like the Connie"

    Hence my suggestion was more angled to the idea that the NPC selling the items and giving the quest for the items - not really be selling the Player crafted items.

    I was trying to explain how the NPC would give out the craft for 6 Helmets, and the person who made the helmest would turn them in, get coin and XP like a normal quest.

    This NPC would also sell the same Helmet it was asking the person to craft - but the items he would be selling *are not from the player, they are always for sale not dependent on someone crafting them* So you get around the connie issue because this NPC is "always going to have 5 Blahblah Helmet to sell" regardless of wether anyone has done the quest lately.

    But he still provides the quest to make such things to help beginning crafters in XP and Coin and learning. AND lorewise/immersion he can make comments about "needing them to put up for sale" so that way it gives the ILLUSION that the crafter is supplyign the NPC (gives that rp/lore reason and makes it all nice and pretty together). But would never leave anyone out in the cold if someone hadn't done the quest in 3 months.

    Because the NPC would still always have 5 helmets for sale.

    Make sense? This way it looks nice and rounded and immersive, still gives craft coin/xp, and still supplies basic items needed (For someoen who wasn't crafting that at the time or whatever).

    I like this idea way way better than just plopping an random NPC in the middle of town who has dozens of Basic tier I items for sale.

    More quests and more coin to gain are always a win win win win!
    Frith-Rae BridgeSol
    Great Elder of Keir Chet K'Eilerten
    Iea has returned.

  11. #31

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment

    I'd say no as it would ruin the need for crafters. Especially since more and more techkits are getting ingame
    Dakoren Ironhand - Multiclassed Half-Giant
    Krondel Bloodclaw - Ancient Dragon

  12. #32

    Default Refurbished Mark II

    Yes.

    Considering the IMMENSE improvement that proper teching can make and the joy of a customized set of weapons, armor, and spells I think this would easily leave a market open for crafters. In fact I think that it could actually give the Crafters a good base price to go off of.

    Example: "Well that steel longsword you bought from the merchant costs two silver. This one is customized to you, colored, and teched so it will cost you five silver."


    I sell my old creations all the time and they are ALWAYS bought by someone without question or exception and I do not think that would change with this alteration. It could also help give people a full appreciation of the upgraded versions of the standard issue. In this way it would allow crafters to actually seem more skilled than your average smith or outfitter etc. It shows that most people can only make very bland items but the Crafter is a master who can create very specially designed items.
    "Nothing Is Never Not... everything is never."-Vacuus, Lord of Nothing

  13. #33

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment

    No to vendor equipment at any tier. Please remove this reliance upon NPCs to provide our equipment apart from the capped Training gear handed out when you join a school.


    Blighted Equipment.

    I like this, which is already in game. All that needs to be done is increase the drop rate and perhaps the variety of items.
    I believe there was already moves to reduce the amount of negative stats and techs as well, if not, it should be done.
    If you don't loot the bit you need, get it deconstructed and remade by player crafters.

    So if you can't find a player to craft exactly what you want (my preferred option), then loot that is useful, usable or sell-able (connie or PB) is the answer, not an NPC vending machine.

  14. #34

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment

    Today I ran some hard numbers for gear. I was very surprised to find that the refurbished gear sold in New Trismus on the refurbished vendor is not all that much worse than basic player crafted gear.

    A full set of refurb bronze plate gives a player +156 armour value. Basic non-teched player made bronze plate +194

    A full set of refurb bronze scale gives a player + 84 armour value. Basic non-teched player made bronze scale +96

    So +38 for plate and +12 for scale. Not anywhere near as bad as I thought refurbished gear was.

    For weapons a refurb bronze battle axe does 10-12 dam and a non-teched player made one does 11-15.

    A refurb bronze dagger does 2-2 dam and a non-teched player made one does 2-3 .

    1-3 point damage spread difference for the axe and 1 top end damage difference for the dagger.

    Across all armour types and weapons, both level 1 and level 11, the difference between refurbished gear and basic player made gear is, in my opinion, quite minimal.

    Thaalia of Order

  15. #35

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment

    What if we made this vendor equipment (still say we should make these quested every 10 levels like dragon quests), we could put "junk techs" on them to prevent Tech Kits from being used on it, unless it is possible to put a "No Tech Kit" flag on an item?

    Just pick something that nobody would want on that particular item and put Tier 1 techs on it. Actually, you could do something stupid like put Dragon Techs on the biped armors to make the techs themselves useless, and to prevent tech kits from being used on the vendor gear.

  16. #36

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment

    Yes
    Message is too short, so Yes again

  17. #37

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment

    Quote Originally Posted by LOVWYRM View Post
    you got me wrong Lung.
    Ah, sorry for my mistake :(

    Quote Originally Posted by LOVWYRM View Post
    I felt pitty for the new players!
    And for us, who sometimes get tired to help the 1000. new player
    cause Istaria is so hard to play as a beginner.
    Yes, it can be hard, that is why we should do our best to help the new players... but don't feel bad, I know you are doing as much as you can to help *winghugs

    Quote Originally Posted by LOVWYRM View Post
    Even more difficult for those , who`s choosen Istaria to be their first mmorpg.
    Indeed... I needed time to adapt to Istaria as a MMORPG... the channel, tabs, windows looked hard for me at the beginning, as well as things about formulas, crafting, ... but I met, already on New Trismus, elder players to help me and show me important things. Good memories : )

  18. #38

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment

    A. Yes, but only for tier 1 and 2.

    Tier 1 basically already has this as refurb equipment right? Would this idea replace the refub vendor? For Tier 1 it should probably stay on the refurb vendor (at least for armor), just make sure that refurb gear has the same armor amounts as crafted (or maybe 1 armor less), as well as some basic techs applied at half the crafted tech amount. Example: Refubished Bronze Chainmail Chestguard, with something like +3 health. Not quite the full amount of crafted but better than nothing. Also, all would be the same in that all available chestpieces would only come with a small health tech (an amount thats less that Statistic: Health I). For tier 2, Refubished Iron Chainmail Chestguard, +6 Health could be sold by an Armorsmith trainer (would make sense to look there), but only use the trainer if theres one in Kion or Sslanis. Greaves could have, say + Strength, Mask + Focus, Helm, + Power, etc. Spread it around. There would still be a desire for crafted to be able to choose Adventure techs, slightly better values, etc.

    For crafting tools, a similiar idea outlined above could be implemented, only sold on trainers requiring the tool.

    I think this should only go to Tier 2 tho, items that take only a single tech. Crafted will be a better option, but not by a game breaking amount at the first 2 tiers. Plenty of time to get a player hooked, let them learn how the crafting works, and supply gear during a period when they may not know anyone in game. But Tier 3, double techs, should be player crafted only. By this time the player should know others to ask questions, have been pointed to New Player Assistance and Marketplace chats more than once by tutorials, etc.

    However I will echo some caution others have mentioned, making the game too easy would be a danger with this. Thats why for certain it must not apply beyond tier 2.

  19. #39
    Member velveeta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    le palais du fromage and industrial complex, cliffside, shepherd's mountain, blight
    Posts
    5,075

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment

    i would certainly support having the trainers trade appropriate level 'training' or 'refurbished' type items. basic food, weapons, armour - perhaps even pots?
    you can't cast a play in hell and expect angels as actors
    check out my game blog: https://velveeta3.livejournal.com/

  20. #40

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment

    However I will echo some caution others have mentioned, making the game too easy would be a danger with this. Thats why for certain it must not apply beyond tier 2.
    You ever tried killing Tier 3 mobs with untech'd Tier 3 armor?

    It is hardly "easy".

    But whatever. At least T1 and T2 would be a help.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •