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Thread: Talk to the Team: Neo Schools

  1. #1

    Default Talk to the Team: Neo Schools

    Currently there are five schools that are in partial stages of development that are known as the Neo-schools. These are Monk, Flame Disciple, Berserker, BattleMage, and Druid. These were begun in 2004 by the original designers of Istaria, but were never fully completed. They have been made available for limited testing on Blight. In addition, three more schools have had some design along these lines: Spiritist, BloodMage, and Reaver.

    This Talk-to-the-Team is designed to gauge your feelings on these schools and whether any design time should be put into them, as well as others that are envisioned, to bring them up to speed.

    1. Assuming the abilities for Neo-Monk/FlameDisciple were completed through level 100, would you like to see these schools replace the current Monk/Disciple schools?

    By replace, this would mean that the levels you have already acquired in Monk or Druid or another school would not be lost. Monk would become Neo-Monk, Druid to Neo-Druid, and so forth.

    2. Would you prefer that some abilities (such as the Supers for Neo-Monk) be obtained only through questing?

    3. Would you like to see all of the Disciple schools revamped in the same manner as NeoMonk/FlameDisciple?

    4. Currently, Neo-Druid is setup to use mana. Would you like to see this implemented?

    5. If you are in favor of question #4, would you also like to see other schools revamped to use mana? Such as BattleMage, Wizard, etc?

    6. The idea behind the NeoSpiritist concept is that Spiritists draw their magic from their enemies or themselves in order to cast spells/use-abilities. Would you be interested in seeing more details on this?

    FAQ:
    • How does Neo-Monk/FlameDisciple differ from the current schools? Neo-Monk and Flame-Disciple utilize a system by which you create attack chains that culminate in powerful attacks. You would start with an Opener ability, then Follow-Ups, and then a Closer attack. Finally, you would make use of a Super attack that is meant to really end the chain by doing massive damage to your enemy or enemies. These Monk-related schools are meant to be powerful, fast-attacking, and exciting combat schools.
    • How does Neo-Druid differ from the current school? It actually is very much the same, except that it uses mana instead of just ability recycling. By using mana your abilities can recycling much faster than normal as the limiting factor is mana instead of time.
    • How does Neo-Spiritist differ from the current school? Neo-Spiritist uses a system by which you draw life-energy from your enemies or yourself and use that energy to cast your spells/abilities. This energy can be stored in specially prepared objects called Phylacteries for later use. By drawing life-force you are actually doing damage to the target (i.e. yourself or your enemies).
    • Why revamp Spiritist? To give Spiritist a purpose and execution that is more in-line with lore and also to make the school into one that is different, interesting to play, challenging, and useful in both solo and group combat.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Neo Schools

    1-3: ABSOLUTELY... I know a few Istarians that have been waiting many years for something like this.

    4-6: Alternate resource pools is a bit of a stretch considering it would require more rework in itemization (which may already be hurting due to work needed for some crafting schools?).

    First priority (IMO) for adventure school revamps should be to make the non-viable schools both viable and distinct. That is, there needs to be a reason one would choose to focus on that school OTHER than mastering one or two skills or gaining attribute points to supplement another primary school.

    The suggested changes for Monks/Disciples would be a huge push in the right direction.

    Caveats: I've played Istaria off and on since initial release, but never long enough to really see the top tiers or multiclass. However, I've been playing and analyzing/writing about MMORPGs since the early EverQuest years. Weigh my opinions based on that as you see fit.

    Major kudos for putting this on the plate!
    Conodar Banestorm (Human)
    24 Shaman, 34 Spellcrafter/12 Blacksmith

  3. #3

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Neo Schools

    1. Personally, I would like to keep the existing monk/disciple as is. I am enjoying the class as is. Make the Neo a distinct new path. Perhaps a master of all the monk paths found a new way to focus the monk paths into a Neo path, and is adapting it for others to learn as an alternative to the standard thought.

    I have not played druid, so I'm not sure where to go there.

    2. I have no problem questing for abilities (my main is a dragon. LOL)

    3. Sounds like a good goal, but a low end priority in my mind, with the number of other things that are BIG issues right now.

    4. Honestly, I'm rather against this. Darn near EVERY game under the sun is using mana. I much prefer the unique flavor of our game here without it. We're not WoW, nor do we want to be. If I want mana, I'll go play Diablo II (or III when it comes out)

    5. Nope.

    6. Sounds like an interesting concept. More information would not be looked down upon.
    SiLang Drag 100, Dcra 100, Dlsh 100 100M Hoard Ancient Dragon of Flight of the Order Shard
    Parcasta Storm Disciple 44, ARM 88, BLK 100, CRP 25, ENC 23, FIT 88, GTH 80, JWL 40, MIN 80, MSN 82, OUT 100, SCH 100, TLR 10, WPN 88, WVR 21

  4. #4

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Neo Schools

    1-4: YES. Those classes need some love. SO a replacement sounds like a great idea. Changeing the classes to use mana seems like a good idea also. Would make the hunting with the classes more challenging and more fun.

    5:
    I would be very sad if wizard got into mana to. Why not make some total new classes? Maybe if to many classes went the mana path, maybe some will leave.

    I am thinking, what about Illusionist? Mind used spells and abilities, and uses mana. Abilities that takes control over the enemy you're fighting.
    Abbie: 100 Sorcerer, 100 Wizard, 100 Conjurer, 100 Chaos Warrior

  5. #5

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Neo Schools

    1) No would not like them to replace existing schools
    2) nope shoulld be part of lvling up
    3)No , to me the schools are too confusing its a learning curve big time on what attacks to do when not like basic chain attacks
    4,5,6)

  6. #6

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Neo Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by AmonGwareth View Post
    Currently there are five schools that are in partial stages of development that are known as the Neo-schools. These are Monk, Flame Disciple, Berserker, BattleMage, and Druid. These were begun in 2004 by the original designers of Istaria, but were never fully completed. They have been made available for limited testing on Blight. In addition, three more schools have had some design along these lines: Spiritist, BloodMage, and Reaver.

    This Talk-to-the-Team is designed to gauge your feelings on these schools and whether any design time should be put into them, as well as others that are envisioned, to bring them up to speed.

    1. Assuming the abilities for Neo-Monk/FlameDisciple were completed through level 100, would you like to see these schools replace the current Monk/Disciple schools?

    By replace, this would mean that the levels you have already acquired in Monk or Druid or another school would not be lost. Monk would become Neo-Monk, Druid to Neo-Druid, and so forth.

    2. Would you prefer that some abilities (such as the Supers for Neo-Monk) be obtained only through questing?

    3. Would you like to see all of the Disciple schools revamped in the same manner as NeoMonk/FlameDisciple?

    4. Currently, Neo-Druid is setup to use mana. Would you like to see this implemented?

    5. If you are in favor of question #4, would you also like to see other schools revamped to use mana? Such as BattleMage, Wizard, etc?

    6. The idea behind the NeoSpiritist concept is that Spiritists draw their magic from their enemies or themselves in order to cast spells/use-abilities. Would you be interested in seeing more details on this?

    FAQ:
    • How does Neo-Monk/FlameDisciple differ from the current schools? Neo-Monk and Flame-Disciple utilize a system by which you create attack chains that culminate in powerful attacks. You would start with an Opener ability, then Follow-Ups, and then a Closer attack. Finally, you would make use of a Super attack that is meant to really end the chain by doing massive damage to your enemy or enemies. These Monk-related schools are meant to be powerful, fast-attacking, and exciting combat schools.
    • How does Neo-Druid differ from the current school? It actually is very much the same, except that it uses mana instead of just ability recycling. By using mana your abilities can recycling much faster than normal as the limiting factor is mana instead of time.
    • How does Neo-Spiritist differ from the current school? Neo-Spiritist uses a system by which you draw life-energy from your enemies or yourself and use that energy to cast your spells/abilities. This energy can be stored in specially prepared objects called Phylacteries for later use. By drawing life-force you are actually doing damage to the target (i.e. yourself or your enemies).
    • Why revamp Spiritist? To give Spiritist a purpose and execution that is more in-line with lore and also to make the school into one that is different, interesting to play, challenging, and useful in both solo and group combat.
    #1-3: I don't know, I haven't much experiance with neo.
    #4: I tried neo druid once and found the mana setup to me extremely clunky; but then, there was no way to actually tell how much mana you had... to my knowledge... and I never seemed to regenerate any. So the mana system definately needs work. However, there is a reason every other game has mana. It's a good idea. TIME shouldn't be the main limiting factor on abilities... honestly, I don't know about the rest of you, but i'm tired of being stuck autoattacking while i wait for every single ability cooldown on multiple action bars!
    #5: Definately.
    #6: Of course! The more information the better.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Neo Schools

    1) No, please do not replace the current working schools. I see no need to replace schools. If you wish to put in the effort and make these neo schools complete, just think of some exciting new names and bring them to the table. Please do not replace the current schools.
    2) I like this idea very much, more quests is always a good thing ;)
    3) Potentially, yes. The idea of chained attacks working in the manner described sounds like they can become versatile warriors.
    4) NO! If the only change to Druid/Neo-Druid is to implement Mana instead of spell-timers, I cannot see this game mechanic adding anything. Actually, I forsee battles becoming shorter by firing off more spells quickly, but wait times between battles becoming longer as mana recharges... no thanks! As for longer (epic) hunts, running out of mana mid battle would drive me away very quickly.
    5) Clearly my answer would be no thanks! :) But, in the interest of debate... how would this affect Epic spells (Volcano, mana potion, Volcano, mana potion.... hehe)?!? And how would your mana pool be determined (some combination of power and focus)?
    6) I like this concept, but this sounds like what Bloodmage should have been, not Spiritist. Just something to consider.


    Ultimately, I don’t much like the mana idea, but if you’re trying to increase the intensity of battles, why not just decrease all timers by 10 percent?
    --- iuvenilis --- [Officer of The Alliance]
    Demonslaying since July 2004

  8. #8

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Neo Schools

    1. Assuming the abilities for Neo-Monk/FlameDisciple were completed through level 100, would you like to see these schools replace the current Monk/Disciple schools?

    - Yes, ONLY as an additional class.
    - NO, if replacing old classes.
    Somehow I just know it wouldn't go smoothly, be implemented as planned,
    and would result in extreme distress to the players, with Possible
    Deletion/Retaking of said classes.

    2. Would you prefer that some abilities (such as the Supers for Neo-Monk) be obtained only through questing?

    - Yes, More quests are a good thing. Biped schools should have more
    Quests for abilities than just Lvl 10 and 20.

    3. Would you like to see all of the Disciple schools revamped in the same manner as NeoMonk/FlameDisciple?

    - Cannot answer regarding differences, don't have a Disciple Alt at
    current time. Overall feeling is same as #1

    4. Currently, Neo-Druid is setup to use mana. Would you like to see this implemented?

    - NO, I'm with SiLang on this one. For many the same reason he stated.
    I don't want a Cookie-cutter game, no imitations or replicas of WOW,
    trying to put Istaria into that mold would be a disaster.

    5. If you are in favor of question #4, would you also like to see other schools revamped to use mana? Such as BattleMage, Wizard, etc?

    - NO, same as #1.

    6. The idea behind the NeoSpiritist concept is that Spiritists draw their magic from their enemies or themselves in order to cast spells/use-abilities. Would you be interested in seeing more details on this?

    - Very odd/Strange/Disturbing. I am not sure what game I have been
    playing for almost 8 years now.
    That description was the exact understanding I got from the Spiritist
    Trainer when I first learned that school. (The missing quest for that
    school used to teach you to make Spirit Orbs - along same line as your
    suggested Phylacteries. But they had no implemented use after that
    quest.)

    Quote from Istaria Wiki:
    Spiritists tread in areas of magic that others will not. They directly manipulate the ethereal essences of life to their own ends. Their spells pass right through physical defenses such as armor to tear at the very fabric of life itself.

    Since the update Delta 203-206 (24.05.2011), Spiritists are now considered hybrid (semi-prestige) schools and requires to be at least level 10 in Mage school.



    FAQ:
    How does Neo-Monk/FlameDisciple differ from the current schools? Neo-Monk and Flame-Disciple utilize a system by which you create attack chains that culminate in powerful attacks. You would start with an Opener ability, then Follow-Ups, and then a Closer attack. Finally, you would make use of a Super attack that is meant to really end the chain by doing massive damage to your enemy or enemies. These Monk-related schools are meant to be powerful, fast-attacking, and exciting combat schools.
    How does Neo-Druid differ from the current school? It actually is very much the same, except that it uses mana instead of just ability recycling. By using mana your abilities can recycling much faster than normal as the limiting factor is mana instead of time.
    How does Neo-Spiritist differ from the current school? Neo-Spiritist uses a system by which you draw life-energy from your enemies or yourself and use that energy to cast your spells/abilities. This energy can be stored in specially prepared objects called Phylacteries for later use. By drawing life-force you are actually doing damage to the target (i.e. yourself or your enemies).
    Why revamp Spiritist? To give Spiritist a purpose and execution that is more in-line with lore and also to make the school into one that is different, interesting to play, challenging, and useful in both solo and group combat


    - I'd be curious to read this LORE and see why Spiritist isn't in line with it.
    From my experience with Spiritist, it has a purpose and ability that other
    classes don't - It's spells bypass Armor and strike the Spirit/Life of the
    target directly. The only thing Lacking is an Epic or School restricted
    Ability that hits with Major damage.

    I'll agree with the other responses #6 needs more detailed Information to
    be shared so we understand what you are talking about.


    Andaras

  9. #9

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Neo Schools

    To Question Number 1

    No with a twist ,

    I would like these to be a "Master class " meaning you need to be completed the school above as a requirement also I would recommend that they need all 5 base schools to 100 to be able to be allowed to pick up a Master class. Now before you start saying that that's to hard we get to ranking 215 or what ever and then we are bumped down to a lower tire like t2 hears a thought there are a great many bipeds running around out there with 100 on all adventure schools nothing to challenge them so they leave this would alleviate that issue for the moment and build a group environment for your new dungeons and other content .

    For question 2
    For master classes i would like to see all ability's quest related because If your in a master school you should know the lay of the land and it should be a decent challenge to obtain Master Ability's

    For question 3
    I Do not play much on peds but i can speak for the dragon side of the game
    Master classes for dragon should be faction based and the following criteria must be met 100 adv 100 craft 100 lair shaping all rops completed also something i would love to see for us old Dragons in walkers that roam the server is the classes are elemental based Like Lunus would get Lightning aka storm and Healian would get water aka Ice

    Reason Why I Bring this up
    3 reasons
    1. From a Player point of view it would be soooooo much fun Learning new tricks and starting epi from a lower level and working his way up all master ability's would be boss / epic quest line based

    2.This could balance the population between lunus and Healian if its done right Healians would get some nice new spells that could compare to gold-rage

    3.From a business prospective for players that are seriously board this will expand by leaps and bounds the "Life of a player" and keep them interested
    also help with world projects and get the radical towns built up again with a bigger player base

    Question 4
    Unclear on this would the mana be in replace of the cool time or is it in-conjunction with it? How fast dose mana get replenished and a slue of other questions .

    Question 5
    still Unclear on this

    Question 6 More details are always welcomed !!!
    Face forward and you should be able to hear it now the only thing plugging your ears is your own fear. There is only one enemy and one of you so what is there to be afraid of ? Abandon your fear turn and face him, Don't give an inch. Now advance Never stop If you retreat you will age Be afraid and you'll die NOW SHOUT OUT YOUR NAME !!!

  10. #10

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Neo Schools

    1. No I like the current schools as they are.

    2. Yes The more quest the better. Even better still is school class quest. Just think Dragon.

    3. No For the same reasons as one.

    4. No Plz for the love of god no.

    5. No Plz for the love of god no.

    6. Yes
    Nothing But Love! That's what makes Dragons Fly!

  11. #11

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Neo Schools

    1: no
    2: dont care
    3: no
    4: no
    5: no
    6: no
    Last edited by Trust; June 8th, 2011 at 04:46 AM.
    Tempus fugit, memento mori.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Neo Schools

    For background - I have a STMD 43 at the moment, and a 60 SPR.

    1. Assuming the abilities for Neo-Monk/FlameDisciple were completed through level 100, would you like to see these schools replace the current Monk/Disciple schools?

    By replace, this would mean that the levels you have already acquired in Monk or Druid or another school would not be lost. Monk would become Neo-Monk, Druid to Neo-Druid, and so forth.
    I am enjoying the schools as they are. I have heard the ICED and FLMD are tough to level though.

    2. Would you prefer that some abilities (such as the Supers for Neo-Monk) be obtained only through questing?
    Extra quests are always good :)

    3. Would you like to see all of the Disciple schools revamped in the same manner as NeoMonk/FlameDisciple?
    No - I really like my STMD.

    4. Currently, Neo-Druid is setup to use mana. Would you like to see this implemented?
    Yes and no... let me explain:
    Yes - if this could stimulate consumable mana potions and perhaps help with an economy.
    No - if it is going to be a hassle having to lug mana potions around. What if you run out mid battle? "Sorry groupies, have to port back, buy mana potions, and run the 30 minutes again to the uber-battle". Perhaps there is a better way to do this.

    5. If you are in favor of question #4, would you also like to see other schools revamped to use mana? Such as BattleMage, Wizard, etc?
    No. Mana is super annoying. Always running out and having to chug potions.

    6. The idea behind the NeoSpiritist concept is that Spiritists draw their magic from their enemies or themselves in order to cast spells/use-abilities. Would you be interested in seeing more details on this?
    Details - yes. But I quite like the background and the way Spiritist work.

    FAQ:
    Want to know more? Visit the Istaria Wiki!

  13. #13

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Neo Schools

    I'm all in for adding them as normal schools, but please, PLEASE do NOT replace the old schools with them.

    for the rest I'm all in except 3, obviously because I'd like old schools to stay

  14. #14

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Neo Schools

    Lightening claw - pretty sure these are in no way intended for dragons. These are all biped classes.
    Frith-Rae BridgeSol
    Great Elder of Keir Chet K'Eilerten
    Iea has returned.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Neo Schools

    1. Assuming the abilities for Neo-Monk/FlameDisciple were completed through level 100, would you like to see these schools replace the current Monk/Disciple schools?

    No - Fix Monk and disciples, don't just replace them with another school

    2. Would you prefer that some abilities (such as the Supers for Neo-Monk) be obtained only through questing?

    Not relevant

    3. Would you like to see all of the Disciple schools revamped in the same manner as NeoMonk/FlameDisciple?

    No

    4. Currently, Neo-Druid is setup to use mana. Would you like to see this implemented?

    No - Leave Druid alone (it's not broken)

    5. If you are in favor of question #4, would you also like to see other schools revamped to use mana? Such as BattleMage, Wizard, etc?

    No - strongly against this

    6. The idea behind the NeoSpiritist concept is that Spiritists draw their magic from their enemies or themselves in order to cast spells/use-abilities. Would you be interested in seeing more details on this?

    No - Leave spiritist alone (it's not broken)
    Chasing
    Chaos Shard
    Scarlet Dawn


  16. #16
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    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Neo Schools

    I agree with Chasing's 11:15AM post (#16) above.

    Knossos

  17. #17

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Neo Schools

    1. Assuming the abilities for Neo-Monk/FlameDisciple were completed through level 100, would you like to see these schools replace the current Monk/Disciple schools?

    Adding new schools: yes. Replacing current ones: no.


    2. Would you prefer that some abilities (such as the Supers for Neo-Monk) be obtained only through questing?

    Why not. Both systems are fine to me.


    3. Would you like to see all of the Disciple schools revamped in the same manner as NeoMonk/FlameDisciple?

    Same as #1.


    4. Currently, Neo-Druid is setup to use mana. Would you like to see this implemented?

    Considering the FAQ: no.
    But if it was a separated new school and restricted to this school: yes.


    5. If you are in favor of question #4, would you also like to see other schools revamped to use mana? Such as BattleMage, Wizard, etc?

    No. Just no.


    6. The idea behind the NeoSpiritist concept is that Spiritists draw their magic from their enemies or themselves in order to cast spells/use-abilities. Would you be interested in seeing more details on this?

    More details, sure. Until it doesn't replace current school.
    Firebrandcrest Arma: Ancient Helian Dragon | Dragon 100 / Dragon Crafter 100 / Dragon Lairshaper 100 / Dragon Crystalshaper 100 (Order) | My MODs: Zexoin's and Firebrand's Sound Emotes Pack v2.5.4.0, Alternate Dragon Bolt Casting v1.4, Old Istarian Ambiance v1.0.8.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Neo Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by Frith-Rae View Post
    Lightening claw - pretty sure these are in no way intended for dragons. These are all biped classes.
    Why should peds get all the fun amon did say and others :)
    >.>
    <.<
    <.>
    Face forward and you should be able to hear it now the only thing plugging your ears is your own fear. There is only one enemy and one of you so what is there to be afraid of ? Abandon your fear turn and face him, Don't give an inch. Now advance Never stop If you retreat you will age Be afraid and you'll die NOW SHOUT OUT YOUR NAME !!!

  19. #19

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Neo Schools

    Please leave all the current schools alone if they have no problems then please dont change them.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Neo Schools

    I would want more details on a whole first. For example I would wish to keep Bloodmage, which Neo-Spiritist seems to be aimed to replaced or make even more obsolete than it already is.
    Avatar is of my character Akrion, snipped from Hrae's Hoard of Creatures by the excellent moss loving artist Nambroth. <3

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