Suggestion: Generate additional revenue

[Midomiko]

Everything just described, and much of what I neglected to list, sounds very inconvenient. From my (limited) experience, it is. Without delving into "pay to play versus pay to 'work' at a game" (which I'll save for that other thread) I suppose I'd have to ask, "Why is this a bad thing?"

To oversimplify a response: it would be a bad thing because it directly allows a player to pay for a game mechanics advantage over other players. If your suggestion were along the lines of being cosmetic only, it might receive a more positive response - say (example) an option to have your cargo disc no longer appear as the little floating pile of boxes with a tarp, rather it appeared as a goblin with a grossly overloaded backpack, while offering no actual statistical variance from a standard disc.

I do understand all sides of this discussion, and by no means am I trying to come across as "nothing must change ever!!!" I want this game to continue forward, but I just do not see some of the options suggested as doing anything more than damaging the community that makes this game what it is. As others have said above and elsewhere, should there be some cosmetic-only options for small amounts of cash added to the game, to allow a minor influx of capital, then by all means great. But should there be options added which directly allow a player to gain game mechanics advantage over any other player who chooses (or is unable) to spend the extra however much money on it, that will only cause more strife than good.

It might just be that I don't see it as bad because...I don't know anyone who enjoys anything you just described. (E.g. Grinding, hauling, etc) I'd likely have more misgivings if it were anything combat related.

Ok, now people can call me weird. I don't mind grinding for construction purposes, and hauling parts to build up my own plot or the plots of friends/others. When I first started playing this game, on through when I left (due to no fault of the game, I was invited to rejoin people I knew through previous games in the release of EQ2 and didn't have time to play two games at once), and since coming back, I have loved the construction aspect of this game. The crafting in general here has always stood out from all other games, with few coming close to the attention it has been given here. I was one of the first 100 Masons around, not because it was a goal to hit 100, but because I actually enjoyed building up people's plots and other world structures so much it just happened to get me that high. Hell, I still haven't even hit 100 in any adventure class (84 CRSB highest), and my main is around 2600 days old. It wasn't the "work to get there", it was the goal at the end of seeing that bridge completed, or seeing that last silo go up on a friend's plot, or that Saris Manor House finally get finished - that was what made the leveling and grinding along the way worth it.

[fermi443]

This article literally describes exactly my thinking. Thank you very much for writing up this suggestion. I completely agree that this game needs to improve, to move forward and generate revenue, players, and further experience.

What is there to enjoy in the future, if we do nothing now to make things better?

[Raptress]

This article literally describes exactly my thinking. Thank you very much for writing up this suggestion. I completely agree that this game needs to improve, to move forward and generate revenue, players, and further experience.

What is there to enjoy in the future, if we do nothing now to make things better?

...You are aware that this game is still having content updates, right? Do you think that VI isn't already trying to improve the game, move forward, etc.? It's not like this game is just stagnating, like it was with EI at the helm.

But, if you'd like to see the game move forward so much, perhaps add your thoughts on what the OP has asked posters to think about?

[FoxFlame]

Ok, now people can call me weird. I don't mind grinding for construction purposes, and hauling parts to build up my own plot or the plots of friends/others.

I won't call you weird; we're leaving out personal attacks. *grin*

I would please ask you think about the correlations between current estimated number of players left in Istaria and the number of people who enjoy grinding.

Just swinging in this thread to note the new one: http://community.istaria.com/forum/s...065#post268065

That way people might comment there on things that would be off topic here.

On the topic of cargo discs (or shoulder-pets for that matter) would it make a difference if the items were also obtainable by using the currency in the game? Lachesis mentioned this, but I didn't hear a response.
I never meant to give the impression any of my suggestions would be limited to purchase via real world currency, and perhaps that's why I didn't understand the reaction or term 'advantage'. Granted, micro-transactions have proved to be immensely profitable (with the help of electronic commerce to reduce overhead) given the human psychological phenomenon of convincing themselves by using the justification that each transaction is small, and therefore unimportant. But if people would rather spend the time in the game to obtain the item, would that provide an equal opportunity, and therefore no advantage to those purchasing the item on an 'item mall'?

[Ettanin]

Istaria can survive without additional stuff for dollars. It did so already for 10 years thanks to VI. I see your fear from this thread: http://community.istaria.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=24862

I don't mind if there are grind alleviators for ingame currency, but i DO mind if they are for dollars, be it obtainable both ways or not. Paying RL $€¥£ for ingame stuff is cheating.

An 'item mall' in Istaria will defeat one of the game's main purposes. Istaria is a game where you mainly craft your stuff.

[FoxFlame]

Istaria can survive without additional stuff for dollars. It did so already for 10 years thanks to VI.

Is all that you wish of Istaria but to merely survive?

Or to flourish?

And that isn't some dramatic, rhetorical question; I would like an answer as well as a possible solution.

As for any 'fear' of mine you may perceive, it sounds as though my tone may have been misconstrued. Try reading over that post again while keeping in mind the emotions listed in its title. I've yet to find many more to better suit this scenario.

[Andaras]

OP stated:
"As for 'spreading the word'...I can't say I can think of anyone I know who
would have the free time to play a game such as this who isn't already
playing a more popular 'grinding-style' game. I'd recommend it as a free
game perhaps, but the real draw for most to Istaria is the ability to play
as a dragon. Those who live with me have seen me playing it and stopped
because they saw I was a dragon, but have already expressed, as frankly
as one friend to another, that "This isn't anything new", "Not worth $10 a
month", and "boring". One was incredibly surprised I was even considering
a subscription. This was disheartening enough to prompt this very topic,
as I really do enjoy the game but from a business standpoint do not see
myself playing very long."

And that paragraph, especially the last line, explains all I need to
understand about your Motives for the OP.

From all I read my thoughts are this is just a "dressed up bug" (AKA Feature)
restated in length trying to find a way to institute a "Click here to get
Immediately to the End-game" button.

Spend $1,000 RL and you can achieve "Grand Master Crafter" without
the grind? Get all Biped Adventuring schools mastered? Automatically
scribe every spell known for a specific school? Master Lairshaping with
a single $50 payment? Become Ancient with a single $150??
It sounds like Guild Wars and many many other games, and will never fit
well into Istaria. Creating such a feature for Istaria would drive out all
the established players (with multi Subs each) that were willing to sink
time and patience into achieving all that.

So you don't have the time, patience, or desire to sink 1,000s of hours
into building your character. *nods* I can understand that. But this
suggestion, to me, smacks of being Disingenuous.

Regardless of how much we would all love Virtrium to flourish, grow, and
bring the playing population back to Release days - They just don't have
the resources to do that at this time. They don't have the resources to
implement your ideas, and many other ideas from other players.

I will give you Kudos though, and Thanks on behalf of all Veterans in
Istaria. Your acknowledgement that it was our dedication that helped
keep Istaria alive is complete Truth.


Andaras

[Ettanin]

Is all that you wish of Istaria but to merely survive?

Or to flourish?

As long as there is Istaria, it's all good.

a possible solution.

Dollardoping is not a solution. It will drive away established dedicated players.

Advertisement of any sorts is the way to go. How should there be more players if no one knows about Istaria? I've never seen an Istaria advert somewhere.

(Remark for 'striking': Impossible and against VI's ethics as of Velea)
Another solution to drive players to play Istaria for longer than two weeks may be the possibility to have one dragon hatchling in your free to play account (adult and ancient dragons should however still be pay to play). The rite of passage questlines could require an active subscription to start and complete. (I don't know if such a quest constraint is possible).

I've observed many hatchling players come and go because they like to play Istaria as a dragon but can't because they don't have any of the supported payment methods. (I've got an austrian friend who i pay the account for because Paypal does not support bank transfer in Austria and Moneybookers is not supported by the respective bank account)
Playing a flying (adult or ancient) dragon could also be an enticement to pay monthly for (after finishing the respective RoP of course).

But putting USD50$ or more (or less) on the table for achievements one has taken thousands of hours to achieve is not the solution to get players.

[Velea]

The rite of passage questlines could require an active subscription to start and complete. (I don't know if such a quest constraint is possible).

Presently there is no way to link a quest constraint to your subscription type, no. Nor does it seem "fair" or "right" to have someone play for weeks, possibly even months, with the expectation that they can someday have a flying dragon only to be told "Oh, sorry, you have to pay for that."

One of the big key "selling points" of the game is the ability to play and develop a true flight-capable dragon. It feels like "bait and switch" (to me anyway) to advertise the game as "Come play this awesome dragon that can fly." and let them start that for free only to switch later and say they have to pay for it. (And we do advertise, by the way, just in ways that those who are already playing probably won't ever see because the already know about the game)

[Ettanin]

Thank you for the remark, Velea. I've 'striked' out that idea as it's against VI's ethics as you have pointed out.
My apologies for bringing up that point without deeper thinking about it.

[FoxFlame]

OP stated:
From all I read my thoughts are this is just a "dressed up bug" (AKA Feature)
restated in length trying to find a way to institute a "Click here to get
Immediately to the End-game" button.

Spend $1,000 RL and you can achieve "Grand Master Crafter" without
the grind? Get all Biped Adventuring schools mastered? Automatically
scribe every spell known for a specific school? Master Lairshaping with
a single $50 payment? Become Ancient with a single $150??

I am growing weary of individuals repeatedly stating, or implying, that "Pay 2 Win" buttons are what I've suggested. Please try not to make assumptions, and if you're unsure, ask for clarification.

I very specifically stated I want to enjoy playing Istaria. I want it to be fun; this is the goal of a game. Why then, would I want to spend a gross amount of money to get to the "end" of the game? I don't see the point of purchasing a level 100/100 character; I don't even know what would be left to do in the game but create another character, as with that point, Istaria turns into a chat room. I do, however, see reason behind paying someone else to do the boring parts of the game for you, so you can enjoy playing the game as you adventure and craft when you can. Specifically, the resource grinding.
Whether one considers it fair or not is a conversation for the other thread mentioned. It was suggested here because, to the best of my knowledge (and despite the likelihood of it happening), there is absolutely nothing stopping a player from paying someone on the other side of the world to work on the boring stuff on their account at night, while they play sometime during the day, adventuring and having fun. If that's entirely possible, why not have the funds go to Istaria instead of someone in Asia? The only answers I see to this question is that one would either want to deprive Istaria of additional revenue (something I don't believe anyone here wants) or they really want to talk to that person gathering resources. Given the hours they would likely play, the language barrier, and the fact that there are so few people in the world as it stands, I don't believe the latter would be very likely to occur.

I can't find a copy of the EULA available online here so I can't read what policy dictates, but I also don't see how it could be policed in the first place. The point I'm trying to make in this post is that we're trying to indicate methods by which to generate revenue, and the suggestions were made to try to eliminate that which isn't fun, not WIN THE GAME WITH CASH. I wouldn't want to pay to get to the end of the game anymore than I'd want to pay someone to play my character to that point for me. If one were to do that, they might as well not play the game in the first place as it's the equivalent of paying for a movie ticket, then paying extra to enter the movie at the ending: what was the point? But you'd better believe that if they scattered commercials in the middle of the movie, I'd pay to skip those.

That stated, I hope this clears up that I'm not suggesting a "PAY TO WIN" button of any sort. Thank you.

[Ettanin]

Paying RL $ for resources is still Dollardoping (which you try to negate it to be but still is) because the one with money has his resources faster and has time to do something else, this is a clear in-game advantage (and thus Pay2Win).

[Kesqui]

I would personally prefer - in terms of revenue raising - to see microtransactions applied to purely cosmetic "fluff" items (like the aforementioned "change your hairstyle/ hair colour" sort of deal, or as listed the mini-mob-that-follows-you-around "pet" - or shiny lair fluff like additional wall decorations, or tattoos for characters...). I would be quite happy to pay to have my primary character's appearance changed just enough to stretch her green belly scales right up to her chin, since that option didn't exist at her creation, for example.

If there are aspects of gameplay you don't like or find grindy, there's nothing forcing you to do them at all; if it limits what you're able to do in the game, that's your choice and trade-off. I don't like playing bipeds, so I don't get to play a Confectioner. It'd be NICE to be able to play a dragon confectioner... but that's not currently an option, and probably never will be.

[Midomiko]

I am growing weary of individuals repeatedly stating, or implying, that "Pay 2 Win" buttons are what I've suggested. Please try not to make assumptions, and if you're unsure, ask for clarification.

I very specifically stated I want to enjoy playing Istaria. I want it to be fun; this is the goal of a game. Why then, would I want to spend a gross amount of money to get to the "end" of the game? I don't see the point of purchasing a level 100/100 character; I don't even know what would be left to do in the game but create another character, as with that point, Istaria turns into a chat room. I do, however, see reason behind paying someone else to do the boring parts of the game for you, so you can enjoy playing the game as you adventure and craft when you can. Specifically, the resource grinding.

Totally subjective and it may well make your argument irrelevant. I find construction entertaining and dungeons/raiding to be boring - should I thus be able to pay to completely bypass any combat elements of the game and have rare tech resource drops magically find their way into my inventory? How does any company determine what is "boring" for the sake of applying a dollar value to bypassing it? Just based on what one person posts?

I can't find a copy of the EULA available online here so I can't read what policy dictates, but I also don't see how it could be policed in the first place. The point I'm trying to make in this post is that we're trying to indicate methods by which to generate revenue, and the suggestions were made to try to eliminate that which isn't fun, not WIN THE GAME WITH CASH. I wouldn't want to pay to get to the end of the game anymore than I'd want to pay someone to play my character to that point for me. If one were to do that, they might as well not play the game in the first place as it's the equivalent of paying for a movie ticket, then paying extra to enter the movie at the ending: what was the point? But you'd better believe that if they scattered commercials in the middle of the movie, I'd pay to skip those.

That stated, I hope this clears up that I'm not suggesting a "PAY TO WIN" button of any sort. Thank you.

Cannot find the full printed EULA (short on time right now), but on the Game Policies page: "Virtrium does not endorse nor does it support the selling or auctioning of accounts or Game characters or items. This includes online auctioning as well as other forms of selling systems, electronic or otherwise. Virtrium is not responsible for the outcomes of any account/item selling or auctioning that takes place."
Online Auctioning Rules
This applies to not just selling/buying accounts, but also things like ingame money/resources, etc.

All that said, I am starting to wonder why you keep fighting so hard to push for the concept of "I want to pay someone else to make my game different and skip parts I don't like!" I know Istaria has some of if not the lowest number of "gold sellers" and other third party sites offering ingame stuff for RL cash of all MMOs, does anyone really want to see such a thing come to infest this game as it has so many others? Does anyone really want to see Marketplace or NPA get hit by advertising spambots offering gold or harvesting services for cash?

While there may be some interest in seeing a small cash shop with purely fluff items, there will only be heavy resistance if not outright account shrinkage from adding anything that can be perceived as giving players a way to skip playing parts of the actual game. While you want to insist you aren't asking for a "pay to win" button, that is EXACTLY what you are doing by asking for a way to bypass resource harvesting. Maybe it's time to consider a different approach, or recognize it as a lost cause.

[FoxFlame]

In response to Kesqui:
The idea of being able to put characters back through the creator (or, something similar) to change stuff would be a great example of how to increase revenue. The point of things being added after a character was created is a wonderful motivator.
I'm not sure how possible changing names would be, but I know on several games I've created characters and so many names were unavailable I just started putting increasingly less appealing names in for my character until one was accepted. This would have been the first character, and at that point I just wanted to try the game. After playing through the game for a bit and deciding I really did want to stay, the idea of being able to adjust my name to one that I'd spent a bit more time musing over would be nice, even at a cost. (Some games call it a processing fee, to get a representative to manually adjust this for them.)

Paying RL $ for resources is still Dollardoping (which you try to negate it to be but still is) because the one with money has his resources faster and has time to do something else, this is a clear in-game advantage (and thus Pay2Win).

I keep hearing objections to suggestions, such as the one above, yet when possible solutions arise to the complaints, I don't hear reasonable explanations as to why they're not sufficient answers. I typically see this behavior in politics when someone is so emotionally invested and adamant about a position they simply parrot an adage and ignore new ideas. Rather than chanting "No! Dollardoping is bad!" try considering alternative solutions and be constructive.

If time is such an important factor: think. Attempt to find a solution. The goal here is to encourage economic growth both for the company and within the game itself. I'll demonstrate:

You've expressed the following constraints: "Dollardoping is bad!"
Reasoning: People can pay money to get resources faster while doing other things in-game.

Good, we've a baseline. Now consider my position, and compromise:
I don't have a lot of time to play the game. Therefore, I won't be playing much.

So with those two considerations in mind, the following arguments can be made:

• Time of resource delivery is an important factor.
• Ability to play in game while the resources are delivered is an important factor.
• Casual gamers don't have much time to play.

Possible solution: Ability to purchase resources, paying Istaria, and have resources delivered upon a delayed mechanism directly proportional and greater than the time required to gather the amount purchased and time played in game during the period waiting for delivery.

Translation: Example: I buy 2000 sandstone. I get it in a week + any actual time I play in the game during this period.

As a casual gamer, I don't care as much when I get it, as I don't have much time to play anyway, and the time I'm actually in the game while this purchase is going through is so minimal that I don't care. Obviously anyone with more free time than I could easily gather those resources faster than me if I had the time to do it. I can't be using the time in game to gather the resources as well, because it's delaying the arrival. So now I get to play the game too and actually enjoy adventuring with friends, and crafting with them, rather than sitting around and not even enjoying the little time I have.

Counter-point? "Well then you could just make another account to harvest while that one waits logged-out to get the resources." True. I could also just pay someone to do all the above for me, and faster. At some point you have to draw the line, and I'd rather it be drawn to Istaria's coffers.

How does any company determine what is "boring" for the sake of applying a dollar value to bypassing it? Just based on what one person posts?

This is a very good point; one I hadn't considered. It does make Istaria's paramount draw decidedly unattractive to many gamers, doesn't it? The irony! The only class that makes Istaria unique is also one that requires you craft, gather resources, and adventure, even if you don't enjoy all of these, just to progress to the point of flying.
Yeah...upon closer review...that sucks a lot.

But then, prior to you, I'd never met someone who claimed to enjoy gathering resources, which can be described as the definition of the word 'boring'. I also don't often hear of someone playing a game that focuses on (at least a good deal of the time) running around in a digital world killing stuff unless they enjoyed that sort of thing.
So, to answer your question: I guess that was a bit of a genre-based conclusion? It's just not mentally stimulating to bang on rocks...which I assume is why they force prisoners to do it, rather than letting them play video games.
Actually I've heard reports of prisons in China forcing inmates to farm in online games, so I suppose that says something.

As for the gold selling/farmers: it's all relative to how popular your game is. If you've free-to-play account capabilities, it makes it even more attractive to the farmers. This can happen without item malls of any kind. If anything, those came about after recognizing that people are going to do this anyway and, as I've mentioned before, it's typically better/easier/safer if the company gets the funds than an 'outside contractor'.

Midomiko, as I said to Ettanin: Let's try to avoid going in circles so we might be constructive. You stopped your quotation of me immediately prior to my cargo disc suggestion and went back to another subject that had already been discussed. Actually, you quoted nearly everything but that portion of the post and never responded to the solution itself. If you'd be so inclined, I'd like to hear your opinion of it.
I've included it here, for the sake of convenience.

Would it make a difference if, with the secondary disc, (which need not be the same size a T5; magnitude could be adjusted) it somehow caused a decrease in the ultimate completion time of the structure, such as a timer? If it's how fast the structure goes up, it could just be that "If you used any resources from a double-disc there will be a calculated timer to delay the final usage of the structure". At least during that time the user, who has generated additional revenue for the game, can be either offline getting responsbilites accomplished, rather than still running back and forth, or trading with a mule.

All in all, I'm pretty happy to see that, from the look of it, a majority of players here are actually more than game for supporting increased revenue in, at the very least, elements of the game that do not change the mechanics behind it. (Gameplay)
Cheers to fluff! (I buy tons of that stuff in other games.)
I'd like to be a fly on the wall at the BD meeting where they discuss if the coding investment into the system is worth the income.

[Kesqui]

In response to Kesqui:
The idea of being able to put characters back through the creator (or, something similar) to change stuff would be a great example of how to increase revenue. The point of things being added after a character was created is a wonderful motivator.

Indeed - and because it's a cosmetic thing, it doesn't affect any in-game player-economy.

I'm not sure how possible changing names would be,

You can already purchase name-change tokens for Istaria characters - so it's quite possible.

You've expressed the following constraints: "Dollardoping is bad!"
Reasoning: People can pay money to get resources faster while doing other things in-game.

Good, we've a baseline. Now consider my position, and compromise:
I don't have a lot of time to play the game. Therefore, I won't be playing much.

See, my solution to "I don't have much time to play, and I'd prefer to spend the time playing doing things I like" would be "If the things I like doing don't advance my character, I forfeit character advancement until and unless it is rewarding enough to advance said character to make it worth doing the things I don't like doing."

I don't like ADV levelling - particularly the part between D-ADV level 25 and D-ADV level 40, which somehow seems a lot more difficult to me than any other levelling at any other part of the game (and I do have one ADV-maxed dragon). So, unless the personal reward for exceeding ADV-25 is greater than the hardship of doing what's required to get there or I have a social reason to do things that will (as a side effect) advance my ADV level... I just won't do it.

Possible solution: Ability to purchase resources, paying Istaria, and have resources delivered upon a delayed mechanism directly proportional and greater than the time required to gather the amount purchased and time played in game during the period waiting for delivery.

Translation: Example: I buy 2000 sandstone. I get it in a week + any actual time I play in the game during this period.

Solution that doesn't require real-world payments for the resources or any additional development time (and less shouting from long-term players who have gotten to where they are without non-subscription cash injections):

1. Buy a plotholder subscription.
2. Buy an in-game lair or plot.
3. Plan a storage silo for it and offer in-game coin for building the silo (since you don't want to gather the resources to do it).
4. Once the silo is built, offer in-game coin for someone to fill the silo with resource-of-choice.

Heck, if you get to know members of the community, some of them might loan you the use of one of their public silos, omitting steps one through three (though I would hope people don't omit step one...), and all you have to do is obtain a willing craftmaniac of reasonable level to gather the resources for you.

The only class that makes Istaria unique is also one that requires you craft, gather resources, and adventure, even if you don't enjoy all of these, just to progress to the point of flying.
Yeah...upon closer review...that sucks a lot.

Try being there from nearly day one, when the requirements for flight hadn't been announced... was gutted to find out Kesqui would have to go kill stuff.

Must admit one of the finest things Virtrium did for dragons on Horizons is add the "glide when falling" checkbox in Options - the only thing I wish is that it was set to "yes" as default, rather than requiring you to find it and check it.

But then, prior to you, I'd never met someone who claimed to enjoy gathering resources, which can be described as the definition of the word 'boring'.

Another crafter here - I like the zen-serenity of gathering my resources, refining them, then applying them to my lair or producing that nifty new scale with the fancy techniques.

Would I pay extra cash to be able to SEE that nifty new scale - one that exists through my in-game efforts, but whose representation is visibly absent?

Oh heck yeah.

Total fluff - but extremely, extremely desirable fluff for all that.

[FoxFlame]

Solution that doesn't require real-world payments for the resources or any additional development time (and less shouting from long-term players who have gotten to where they are without non-subscription cash injections):

1. Buy a plotholder subscription.
2. Buy an in-game lair or plot.
3. Plan a storage silo for it and offer in-game coin for building the silo (since you don't want to gather the resources to do it).
4. Once the silo is built, offer in-game coin for someone to fill the silo with resource-of-choice.

That's a fantastic idea; the best I've seen so far, at least, to address my issue, but now I feel selfish as it isn't the topic of the thread. It's still very much appreciated.

Another crafter here - I like the zen-serenity of gathering my resources, refining them...

I've realized there may be some confusion. Just for clarification, if I mention crafting, I'm only referring to the creation of new products from raw materials, not the logistics involved in acquiring said materials. I'm not sure how many people refer to it 'bundled' versus separately. (I.e. To me, at least, gathering resources is not part of the 'crafting' process.)

[Akrion]

Is all that you wish of Istaria but to merely survive?

Or to flourish?

And that isn't some dramatic, rhetorical question; I would like an answer as well as a possible solution.

Istaria will probably never 'flourish'. To flourish would mean to hit it well with the main stream gamers and Istaria is too old and 'unrefined' to really achieve that. Not with the way the current mainstream audience is, in any case.

In Istaria's relatively fragile state, making sudden drastic changes like some things you suggest would be a fairly risky gamble. They would increase the chance to pull in some more money at the risk of losing a good chunk of their current players, which wouldn't be any good.

[Essra]

Well...what about selling vanity items? I noticed that there is no such thing as clothing in istaria that doesn't look terrible. No armor that looks cool. So what about statless vanity items? Could pull in a bit of extra money, it wouldn't change gameplay, and it could spice up roleplay a bit.

...and sure, it might be an effort to make all these items. But Istaria has plenty of devoted vets with too much time on their hands - just the fact that they ever got past level ten proves that. ((I'll be honest. This game... is a terrible grind. Why are there no objectives when you're leveling except to collect 5 of X trophy or do the repeatable 'Kill X of this monster' that rewards such an infinitesimally small amount of xp that its not even worth picking up? Bah. another discussion for another day.))

Anyway. My point is. You could run a contest for the players to make and submit vanity items. I'm sure a few of the modders would be up for it. The reward for winning? The honor of getting your item in the game. That's all a lot of people would need.

[Frith-Rae]

I do understand all sides of this discussion, and by no means am I trying to come across as "nothing must change ever!!!" I want this game to continue forward, but I just do not see some of the options suggested as doing anything more than damaging the community that makes this game what it is. As others have said above and elsewhere, should there be some cosmetic-only options for small amounts of cash added to the game, to allow a minor influx of capital, then by all means great.

Well I'll make a few points that I don't think others have brought up, and I've read every post .

This suggestion, in parts or in sum, has come up before. There are many players who have no problems iwth the "fluff" options costing money - things like shoulder pets, or cosmetic changes, or even plot options that are also available to build in game (but you could get easier/faster with RL money).

However, something that was pointed out in another thread like this one not too many moons ago - any dev time that goes to developing fluff content IS less dev time on everything else that might need to get done.

It was something I had to step back and consider myself, because I am for paying for fluff items as a way to generate revenue - but at the same time, we DO have such a limited dev team I can CERTANILY see how promoting dev time for things like "fluff" items (that aren't already in game like some shoulder pets are in the files) would mean less time for other "more important" aspects of the game (quotes because that is subjective heh). Not in a "ok I'm working on ABC and now I have to work on XYZ" but more in the idea that there is only so much time in the day, and we have only a limited amount of resources to devote to game development. The pie portions get smaller the more you work on .

Also - and I say this with the utmost respect both for the game and for yourself, Fox (or anyoen else who like me, hates the grind too) - if you don't like grind then this isn't the game for you. If you see no "point" beyond the grind, then honestly I don't know what to say. Trying to come up with "revenue producing" products that "reduce' this grind - isn't going to happen really.

Because really - ultimately - it would shorten the subscriber base. If it takes someone a shorter amount of time to get to where they want ot be, then they're going to stop playing in a faster amount of time (is how I see that down side).

You don't like the craft grind, but wether we like it or not (and honestly, I don't either but I still build on my plot go figure lol), it is a major attraction and a major "point" as to why people continue to play this game. As you said previously, "I've never heard of anyone whio enjoyed that.." Well..welcome to that game! LOL Yes, we have players who barely craft and who purely enjoy the aventuring side - but the great majority of players here pay to gather and build, even if they also adventure.

You talk about wanting to play jointly with friends, but there is only one dungeon in Istaria at end game. There is very little "end game" is Istaria you couldn't do at level 10 - outside of that dungeon and the titles associated with it. You kill higher creatures as you level, you dig higher level.."stuff" if you will heh. But what are you in a rush to get to?

That would be the question to answer as you ask for "generating revenue". Is Istaria, there is no "rush" to get anywhere. You sound like you are wanting a way to bypass the gatherering process, to get to build and..what? When you build your plot then what? tear it down and start again? What are you in the rush to get to?

I think that's where people maybe misinterpret your initial post - because part of it gets that "kneejerk" ZOMG YOU WANT TO BUY IN GAME BENEFITS DIE DIE" reaction lol. And you straight forwardly say "I want to skip through ABC to get to XYZ" and I feel a need to turn to you (not just you specifically) and go "what do you want ot hurry for?"

Because part of me thinks that you think you're burning through something to get somewhere, when really you get nowhere. I don't say that to bash the game, I've supported this game since a month after launch wether I'm actively playing or not. But I also take many months off because there really is nothing but grind and socializing. The grind is more or less boring depdnding on what you find fun, but you're right in that it really is just grind.

ANd if you skip that grind to get somewhere - there's nowhere really to get TO. Its not a "level upa nd start the game at end game" it REALLY IS the Journey!

I've been 90 for years now - why? Because there's no real point to be level 100. There's a dungeon..and..uhh...*crickets*.

Vanity items - I don't see many players who have ever posted against using those to increase revenue. The only negative I ever really saw was the idea of limited dev time to devote to "fluff store" items.

But I'd say give up the idea of using any of the "pay to play" "in game benefit" potions or scrolls or ANYTHING because really in Istaria - its the journey that has to be worth it for you. The journey or the community. Or a bit of both somewhere in between.

The good side of that is - you really don't have to get heavy into crafting to get anywhere or do much of anything. Yes to fly, but 30 levels of crafting isn't a huge deal. I know players post here all the time who are entirely devoted almost exclusively to adventuring.