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Thread: Talk to the Team: Sorcerer

  1. #21

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Sorcerer

    Quote Originally Posted by Duckies View Post
    I am loving the banshee effect idea.
    Me too. I am waiting since beta to see this nice visual effect have a meaningful spell attached to. :)

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  2. #22

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Sorcerer

    Some additional thoughts...

    - Expand Awareness to be tiered and give +40 to +160.
    - Fix damage on Manifested Power and lower to 30 seconds.

    - Change Blur so that instead of a bonus to evasion stat it would give: Blur I Masterable 5% chance to avoid incoming spell attacks, Blur II 10% and Blur III 15% non-masterable. The idea here being that you could have some basic mental defenses with a little Sorcerer, but active Sorcerers would get very good defenses.

    - Change Spellbind to take 3 hits to break instead of 1, but for the Stun/Mez to last 3-9 seconds.
    - Change AreaSpellbind to take 5 hits to break instead of 1, but for the Stun/Mez to last 12-21 seconds.
    The thoughts here being that a stun/mez should not last longer than the recycle on the ability/spell. But, taking away the duration of the stun/mez is a nerf so trade that off by increasing the hits it takes to break it. At least then you can pound on the mob a little before it becomes un-stunned.

    I'm unsure about Thought Capture and Disconcert. To be honest they really seem like they should have been techniques. I definitely don't like that they are passive abilities instead of active ones. Still pondering that.
    "Alea iacta est" -- Julius Caesar

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  3. #23

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Sorcerer

    I was with you until this:

    Quote Originally Posted by AmonGwareth View Post
    - Change Spellbind to take 3 hits to break instead of 1, but for the Stun/Mez to last 3-9 seconds.
    - Change AreaSpellbind to take 5 hits to break instead of 1, but for the Stun/Mez to last 12-21 seconds.

    I don't mind if you want to change Spellbind, since it is masterable I can agree with your sentiment about stun duration vs recycle. But Area Spellbind is non-masterable as is one of Sorcerer's biggest strengths. Please don't take that away from them, please.

    [OT: I belive most non-masterable abilites need to be boosted, not weakened, to make all classes desirable to group with.]

    I look foward to any increase in damage for Manifested Power, as it is now, it's virtually useless. Mind Bolt would be wonderful. I wouldn't expect it to be a power house, perhaps something similar to Lightning Bolt, lower damage but short delay. I would hope to see some lovely unique techs for it.

    On the topic of techs:
    Energy has Stun, Shocked and Concentrated; Ice has Freeze (root), Ice Snare (slows movement) and Numbing (reduce evasion); Fire has two DoT techs; while mind only has Derange. If we're adding mind damage in, then one that lowers Mind resistance is definately in order. Perhaps a tech that has a chance of procing an AoE effect. Nothing over the top, but small area stun for 1 or 2 secs, or just small AoE damage or debuff.

    What about a tech called Headache: reduces accuracy but increases strength/power. Or Hangover: similar to the Chaos Warrior's Bane of Chaos, which can give a random negative effect (Could be a new spell as well which then has a chance for the effects to worsen as well).

    Mind Wrack (DoT), Psychic Shockwave (AoE) and Mind Lasher sound great, as does Blindness. Any Epic Mind spell, whether it be class-restricted or not, would be totally AWESOME!
    --- iuvenilis --- [Officer of The Alliance]
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  4. #24
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    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Sorcerer

    On the Spellbind, a 3-9 second stun with 3 hits to break would make the ability pretty useless for my purposes (crowd control). It would still be useful in crowd control with a 20 second stun, 1 hit to break and a 30 second recycle.

    Knossos

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Sorcerer

    some redundant spells and overlapping abilities need looking at.

    Lessen Power vs. Stupidity
    Lessen Focus vs. Scatterbrain
    These are not redundant, but are instead incompletely implemented. They are the Mind analogs to the Raise/Enhance pairs in Augmentation and Life, and to the Lessen and Clumsiness/Weaken line in Blight. However, the Lessen spells in Mind have not been made available to all schools, unlike their counterparts in Augmentation, Life, and Blight. Does anyone know why not?

    The Lessen spells really belong to the mystic caster domain.
    Not really... Physical debuffing is the domain of Blight, in mystic caster. Mental debuffing is in the domain of Mind, in Arcane. Lessen Power and Lessen Focus should stay right where they are, but made available to all schools like their Blight counterparts have been.

    If you take them out of Mind and put them in Blight, then Mind has even less to make it special. Moving them out and adding damage to Mind just makes Sorcerer more like Wizard, Flame, and Ice, and even less interesting. Besides which, it destroys a nice symmetry in the game between Arcane and Mystic.

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  6. #26

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Sorcerer

    Quote Originally Posted by Knossos View Post
    On the Spellbind, a 3-9 second stun with 3 hits to break would make the ability pretty useless for my purposes (crowd control). It would still be useful in crowd control with a 20 second stun, 1 hit to break and a 30 second recycle.

    Knossos
    Agreed. One of the reasons I took the school for that ability for 20 seconds.

    Quote Originally Posted by AmonGwareth View Post
    - Change Blur so that instead of a bonus to evasion stat it would give: Blur I Masterable 5% chance to avoid incoming spell attacks, Blur II 10% and Blur III 15% non-masterable. The idea here being that you could have some basic mental defenses with a little Sorcerer, but active Sorcerers would get very good defenses.
    Blur, masterable was the key reason why I took up the school. Please don't nerf it.
    Last edited by Phillip; September 30th, 2011 at 12:50 PM.

  7. #27

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Sorcerer

    Blur, masterable was the key reason why I took up the school. Please don't nerf it.
    And it would still be masterable. You only get Blur I right now anyway.

    Agreed. One of the reasons I took the school for that ability for 20 seconds.
    If I can find a way to make it so that mobs (and players) can't be chain-stunned then I could see my way to allowing a 20 second stun.
    "Alea iacta est" -- Julius Caesar

    Toot shouted, voice shrill, "In the name of the Pizza Lord! Charge!" (Jim Butcher's Dresden Files)

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will spends it whole life believing that it is stupid." -- Albert Einstein

  8. #28

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Sorcerer

    Quote Originally Posted by AmonGwareth View Post
    And it would still be masterable. You only get Blur I right now anyway.
    Currently Blur I is masterable giving +40 Evasion.

    Making it 5% chance to avoid incoming spell attacks - will make it absolutely meaningless in comparison for melee main.

  9. #29

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Sorcerer

    Quote Originally Posted by AmonGwareth View Post
    ...I'm unsure about Thought Capture and Disconcert. To be honest they really seem like they should have been techniques. I definitely don't like that they are passive abilities instead of active ones. Still pondering that.
    I actually like that these are passive abilities.

    Other ideas seem good.

    I would make all the new abilities non-masterable. Give people a reason to play Sorcerer as a main school. It still has a few nice things are are masterable such as Blur so that its a nice complement to any spellcaster class, but also so much more powerful when played as the main class.

    I would leave the blur evasion/masterability as it is. Perhaps the higher tier versions could be non-masterable, such that when in another school you still have blur I, but as sorc you get the higher tier, better version.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Sorcerer

    Quote Originally Posted by Knossos View Post
    On the Spellbind, a 3-9 second stun with 3 hits to break would make the ability pretty useless for my purposes (crowd control). It would still be useful in crowd control with a 20 second stun, 1 hit to break and a 30 second recycle.

    Knossos
    Note the above comment relates specifically to Spellbind II which is mastered at level 84.

    Knossos

  11. #31

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Sorcerer

    Clarity in Sorcerer abilities should be a mezz purge on self too. Right now it is just another detox other.

  12. #32
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    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Sorcerer

    Looking over Sorcerer, I notice that Sorcerers learn very little between level 1 and level 20, only the 4 stances and a Coordinated Bolt II. The only other classes to get so little are the other two pure Arcane prestige classes.

    This looks like an oversight, and should probably be corrected (either that, or the wiki information is incorrect, also possible.) They could at least be given some of the Mage abilities, so that it was not so absolutely necessary to keep mage as a class.

  13. #33
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    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Sorcerer

    Quote Originally Posted by AmonGwareth View Post
    Good suggestions on the Lessen spells. You are correct, they overlap so they aren't needed as mind spells.

    Some additional ideas:

    • Mind Bolt – (Active) Bolt spell similar to Blood Bolt, repeater (class-restricted)
    • Night Terrors – (Active) Epic single-target mind damage spell, % of mind DoT, and % of debuff that powers all core stats. (Uses Banshee effect)
    • Psionic Blast – (Class-Restricted) AoE damage spell
    This needs to be done :D

    *shameless bump to thread, if it works that way when someone posts*

  14. #34

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Sorcerer

    Pleaaaaase help the sorcerers out there....
    "State your case, but do it well. I do not suffer fools gladly." ~Sereamha Balla-dor

  15. #35

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Sorcerer

    I still have this flagged to work on, it has just taken a back-seat to Crystalshaper and the T3 Revamp. If folks want to continue discussing it and even summarize and discuss specific abilities or spells mentioned, potential changes to existing abilities, etc I'd be more than happy to discuss things further.
    "Alea iacta est" -- Julius Caesar

    Toot shouted, voice shrill, "In the name of the Pizza Lord! Charge!" (Jim Butcher's Dresden Files)

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will spends it whole life believing that it is stupid." -- Albert Einstein

  16. #36

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Sorcerer

    Quote Originally Posted by AmonGwareth View Post
    Good suggestions on the Lessen spells. You are correct, they overlap so they aren't needed as mind spells.

    Some additional ideas:

    • Mind Bolt – (Active) Bolt spell similar to Blood Bolt, repeater (class-restricted)
    • Night Terrors – (Active) Epic single-target mind damage spell, % of mind DoT, and % of debuff that powers all core stats. (Uses Banshee effect)
    • Psionic Blast – (Class-Restricted) AoE damage spell
    These look like abilities and spells befitting a Sorceror, I can agree with these.

    However, I also disagree a bit with changing Blur into only avoiding spells. To me it would seem more fitting to make both physical evasion and magic evasion better, kind of similar to what it does now, but instead also adding a boost to magic evasion.

    Or, instead, you could change it to give the chance of both spell and melee avoidance as an alternate way of adjusting it, which would be along the lines of what you were initially thinking about. However, I would still want it to remain a passive, masterable ability.

    After all, you are manipulating the enemies' mind to make yourself appear as a blur, it would be hard for them to see you if your image is distorted to them.

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  17. #37
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    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Sorcerer

    Quote Originally Posted by hallucin8 View Post
    I was with you until this:I don't mind if you want to change Spellbind, since it is masterable I can agree with your sentiment about stun duration vs recycle. But Area Spellbind is non-masterable as is one of Sorcerer's biggest strengths. Please don't take that away from them, please.
    I agree (partially) with Hallucin here. Area spellbind should not be made into a stun-like thing that fades after a couple hits.

    Spellbind, however...I wouldn't mind as much, but would rather it remain the same as it always has. Perhaps it could become a Lesser Spellbind type thing when someone was not in the sorc school but had it mastered and become a stun that went poof after 3 or so hits, but remain a 1 minute crowd control ability only when in the sorcerer school?

  18. #38

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Sorcerer

    Sorcerer absolutely, positively needs a mind bolt. I'm less enthusiastic about the option to add a tech that would increase delay and/or recycle if you're going to put in the mind bolt though. Right now, enemy sorcerers are #3 on my list of high value targets due to the potentially crippling mezzes and anti-alacrity effects ;P. If they start using mind bolts to deliver those effects, whittling away health while crippling you, they would quickly go to #1 or #2!

    An epic mind spell would definitely be quite welcome, especially if you implement the really cool banshee visual effect with it :)!

    Amon, you expressed concern about sorcerers stun locking their opponents, and I think that concern is well placed. If you change the number of hits needed to ablate spellbind/area spellbind, imo it will have the effect of making solo adventuring anywhere you can run into an enemy sorcerer nigh impossible. Stuns/mezzes are the bane of all solo characters, and having to wait longer to be free of them will definitely impose some new limits on where I hunt solo.

  19. #39

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Sorcerer

    I'm unconvinced a bolt is really needed, but it can't hurt.

    The banshee, which effect is that? Having an epic spell will be nice.

  20. #40
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    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Sorcerer

    Quote Originally Posted by Guaran View Post
    I'm unconvinced a bolt is really needed, but it can't hurt.

    The banshee, which effect is that? Having an epic spell will be nice.
    This is going to be horribly general but as best I can remembers: Sorcerers have debuffs that come from dealing mind damage things. They don't have enough things that deal mind damage. A repeating bolt would give a nice damage boost (The techs, oh the techs!) as well as putting nasty debuffs on the target.

    *In no way should this be taken as the correct interpretation/answer :P

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