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Thread: Talk to the Team: Paladin

  1. #1

    Default Talk to the Team: Paladin

    Quick thread, kind of open-ended. Wanted to collect folks suggestions for improvements or changes as well as any bugs they know of in the paladin school. Post here please.
    "Alea iacta est" -- Julius Caesar

    Toot shouted, voice shrill, "In the name of the Pizza Lord! Charge!" (Jim Butcher's Dresden Files)

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will spends it whole life believing that it is stupid." -- Albert Einstein

  2. #2

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Paladin

    Having actually played through Paladin (semi) properly while levelling during my heavy multi-classing, I have to say the Paladin class is very well versatile, an excellent class indeed.

    They get good melee skills per level (10 shield, 1hs and 2hs) and strong melee abilities too (Critical Strike, Multi-Strike, Cleave, Melee Flurry and Life Strike).

    My only suggestion (and this is my personal opinion of ALL non-masterable abilities), half the cool-down of Stand Against Darkness and Healing Touch. I don’t think they warrant such long recycle timers. Stand Against Darkness is comparable to Hero’s Resolve (which has a 5min recycle) but against undead only, while Healing Touch’s recycle could easily be 30min instead of 2 hours. If it were similar to the Healer’s Superior Rez then I could understand such a long recycle, but it’s just a single target heal. Also, I question why Aura of Light has a 10min recycle, when all other comparable abilities (i.e. Druid’s Auras) are 5sec recycles (should it be dispelled by a nasty Shaman, it’s very frustrating).

    I don’t think the Paladin needs any more abilities, they have almost all the strong Warrior abilities as well some excellent passive ones (Infusion, Blessing of Life and the Champion’s Form line). However, perhaps allowing them to cast the Group Heal(th?) spell would be good. But this is all just my 2 cents.
    --- iuvenilis --- [Officer of The Alliance]
    Demonslaying since July 2004

  3. #3

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Paladin

    My first biped lvl 100 was paladin. I can agree with everything hallucin8 says.

    I'd like to see the health line opened to paladins as well.

    Haven't noticed any bugs, but I haven't played him in paladin school very much lately.
    I never met a gnome I didn't like. For tender morsels they are!

  4. #4

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Paladin

    I think I would like to see more done with the limited offensive spell that uses life (mystic blaze?) it has a long recycle and is pretty useless compared to a properly teched repeating bolt spell.

    Something along the lines of 'turn undead' or similar (like in the old rpg games), maybe as some kind of aoe damage to undead only (paladin version of phoenix rising)

    If I remember correctly paladin receives a passive ability that increases the amount of hit points regained over time. Increasing this % upwards a bit might be an alternative to allowing other healing spells to be usable by the class.

    Aura of command gets overwritten and clashes with some other lesser group buffs, can't remember which ones at the moment.

    If your really feeling generous, how about a life attack buff spell that converts damage to life.

    Direct melee wise I can't think of anything else that hasn't already been mentioned.
    Chasing
    Chaos Shard
    Scarlet Dawn


  5. #5

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Paladin

    I asked 2 Palas from German Chat:

    One is satisfied with the way it is (playing Pala as main)
    the other one wants more or better heals, if possible (nice-to-have).

    The third player, who plays Pala (a mighty one^^) since years, I had no opportunity to ask yet.
    YOU told me to play a dragon!

  6. #6

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Paladin

    Quote Originally Posted by Chasing View Post
    I think I would like to see more done with the limited offensive spell that uses life (mystic blaze?) it has a long recycle and is pretty useless compared to a properly teched repeating bolt spell.
    Curious how many use this at all. It looks like it should be in the same veins as Fiery Strike, but its requirements are level 3/30 instead of 18/180 so it makes sense that its low-powered currently. To increase its power I'd have to raise its requirements.

    Aura of command gets overwritten and clashes with some other lesser group buffs, can't remember which ones at the moment.
    I think it used to, but hasn't in quite a long time.
    "Alea iacta est" -- Julius Caesar

    Toot shouted, voice shrill, "In the name of the Pizza Lord! Charge!" (Jim Butcher's Dresden Files)

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will spends it whole life believing that it is stupid." -- Albert Einstein

  7. #7

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Paladin

    Before having other options through multi-classing, I used mystic blaze mainly as a filler or pull spell. I still use it occasionally when fighting undead types. If it were boosted, I could see it getting more use.

    If I remember correctly, I was running Aura of Light on a Valkor hunt, and a group member had a healer aura running (the one that cycles a % to health), which canceled out Aura of Light. I don't understand how these would be in conflict.
    I never met a gnome I didn't like. For tender morsels they are!

  8. #8

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Paladin

    Quote Originally Posted by Draeconis View Post
    If I remember correctly, I was running Aura of Light on a Valkor hunt, and a group member had a healer aura running (the one that cycles a % to health), which canceled out Aura of Light. I don't understand how these would be in conflict.
    They wouldn't. Aura of Light (the effect you get from the aura) doesn't share a keyword with the Aura of Health effect so they won't conflict. And the auras themselves are self-only so would only conflict if you used both on yourself.
    "Alea iacta est" -- Julius Caesar

    Toot shouted, voice shrill, "In the name of the Pizza Lord! Charge!" (Jim Butcher's Dresden Files)

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will spends it whole life believing that it is stupid." -- Albert Einstein

  9. #9

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Paladin

    Quote Originally Posted by AmonGwareth View Post
    Curious how many use this at all. It looks like it should be in the same veins as Fiery Strike, but its requirements are level 3/30 instead of 18/180 so it makes sense that its low-powered currently. To increase its power I'd have to raise its requirements.
    I used it with Healer school and it was dealing nice damages (with Life teched equipement + training points) if used with Multicast on an undead. Of course, that is a pretty specific use.
    If you want a stronger spell, maybe having an Improved Mystic Blaze with higher requirements as new spell would please everyone?
    Firebrandcrest Arma: Ancient Helian Dragon | Dragon 100 / Dragon Crafter 100 / Dragon Lairshaper 100 / Dragon Crystalshaper 100 (Order) | My MODs: Zexoin's and Firebrand's Sound Emotes Pack v2.5.4.0, Alternate Dragon Bolt Casting v1.4, Old Istarian Ambiance v1.0.8.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Paladin

    Quote Originally Posted by AmonGwareth View Post
    They wouldn't. Aura of Light (the effect you get from the aura) doesn't share a keyword with the Aura of Health effect so they won't conflict. And the auras themselves are self-only so would only conflict if you used both on yourself.
    This may be a bug then. I don't have Aura of Health, but my Aura of Light was canceled out by a group member using it.
    I never met a gnome I didn't like. For tender morsels they are!

  11. #11

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Paladin

    Quote Originally Posted by Draeconis View Post
    This may be a bug then. I don't have Aura of Health, but my Aura of Light was canceled out by a group member using it.
    Don't know how it would conflict. Not saying you are wrong, but I suspect it may have been something else that conflicted and removed your Aura of Light. A debuff or cleansing from the enemy perhaps.
    "Alea iacta est" -- Julius Caesar

    Toot shouted, voice shrill, "In the name of the Pizza Lord! Charge!" (Jim Butcher's Dresden Files)

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will spends it whole life believing that it is stupid." -- Albert Einstein

  12. #12

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Paladin

    Quote Originally Posted by AmonGwareth View Post
    Don't know how it would conflict. Not saying you are wrong, but I suspect it may have been something else that conflicted and removed your Aura of Light. A debuff or cleansing from the enemy perhaps.
    I'm pretty sure it wasn't a debuff. I noticed my Aura was gone while we were gathering to fight, and it had only been active long enough to run from Kirasanct to one of the frozen lakes near Valkor's fortress (about 3-5 minutes). There wasn't any combat up to that point.
    I never met a gnome I didn't like. For tender morsels they are!

  13. #13

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Paladin

    Quote Originally Posted by Draeconis View Post
    I'm pretty sure it wasn't a debuff. I noticed my Aura was gone while we were gathering to fight, and it had only been active long enough to run from Kirasanct to one of the frozen lakes near Valkor's fortress (about 3-5 minutes). There wasn't any combat up to that point.
    Ah... Well, will just chalk it up to a weird coincidence.

    For the record, I've made the following changes for Paladin for the next patch:


    • Stand Against Darkness now has a 5 minute recycle instead of 10.
    • Healing Touch now has a recycle of 30 minutes instead of 2 hours.
    • Aura of Light now has a recycle of 5 seconds.
    • Life Strike now does life damage.

    Thanks for the feedback. I have opened an internal ticket for Mystic Blaze as I haven't decided what to do (if anything) for it yet.
    "Alea iacta est" -- Julius Caesar

    Toot shouted, voice shrill, "In the name of the Pizza Lord! Charge!" (Jim Butcher's Dresden Files)

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will spends it whole life believing that it is stupid." -- Albert Einstein

  14. #14

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Paladin

    Sounds good. If it happens again, I'll get more details about it and bug report it.

    Those changes sound great as well.
    I never met a gnome I didn't like. For tender morsels they are!

  15. #15

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Paladin

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebrand View Post
    If you want a stronger spell, maybe having an Improved Mystic Blaze with higher requirements as new spell would please everyone?
    Plus one for that, I like that idea a lot.

    And thanks Amon for taking the suggestions on board. Can't wait (although I know I will have too) :)
    Cheers!
    --- iuvenilis --- [Officer of The Alliance]
    Demonslaying since July 2004

  16. #16

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Paladin

    Quote Originally Posted by AmonGwareth
    I have opened an internal ticket for Mystic Blaze as I haven't decided what to do (if anything) for it yet.
    Perhaps considering lowering the recycle on it.

    Also how about a life bolt?
    Quote Originally Posted by Random Poster
    I'm gonna post in this one too!

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Paladin

    Paladin was my first 100 class also. Since pali is geared toward undead, how about higher blight resistance? Or possibly a remove blight ability. I know when I play my pali, cleanse seems to be my most used spell. After heals that is. JAT Gro
    Experienced hunter and Grandmaster craftsman. Blight only

  18. #18

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Paladin

    So, rather late and after the fact, I've descended to give my take on Paladins. It was my first class to 100 and I tend to run around in it rather than Shaman. The class itself seems to have a strange combination of mediocrity and specialization. DPS from the class is moderate but not on par with DPS classes. Healing is poor, only really useful for spot healing or staying alive just a little bit longer in a fight. There are a few decent group buffs that encourage grouping, but nothing outstanding nor any group heals or detoxes. Purify is a joke of a detox. Fighting undead seems to be the specialty, but is not very well represented up until the very end of the class. Infusion is there, but a 3% chance is pretty useless. The class also seems like it should tank, but lacks the damage output to hold aggro, and HZ doesn't seem to have any form of taunts that I've seen. There are damage intercepts but those are clunky and situational. Damage types are also very restricted, with only swords available to use at all...<Deep breath>

    So, with all of that said, I'd really like to see Paladins get something to distinguish themselves apart from other classes by being the anti undead class/damage absorbing class. Here are some ideas that I've had to make it that way

    Stand against Darkness should be a defining trait that starts at 20 and progresses up through the levels until it reaches where it is now. Make Paladins aware from when they start that they are anti undead.

    Allow access to Group Health and Health or Minor Health. Augment the ability to heal a bit (not like a dedicated healer though). This shouldn't be game breaking as it is inferior to clerics, while their damage is inferior to warriors.

    Give a spell/ability to Pallies that converts all damage into Life. If I understand it correctly, this would give a damage buff against undead while not increasing damage against other enemies. Make it Pally only to keep it under control.

    Maybe an aura that provides resistance to cleanses from Aegis or Blight only. The speed with which buffs can be stripped off and debuffs applied is crazy and exceeds what a player can do. (Especially fighting Skulk Shamans) That might be pushing it though.

    Give Pallies access to Detox other and group please. Maybe self as well, though not really needed.

    I'd also recommend allowing Paladins the ability to wield hammers and clubs. Diversify the weapons they can use just a bit, so that they have at least a little bit more than slashing weapons at their disposal. I do recognize that other classes have restrictions, and would say they should have access to at least one other set of weapons. Not necessarily skill points gained per level though.

    In short, I'd like to see something differentiate Paladin from the other classes. Having less dps than Warriors and less healing than Clerics makes for a class that comes up short of being very useful. Getting the niche of Aegis killer would be just the ticket, and beefing up their group support so that they're worthwhile grouping with when not hunting undead.
    Ssilmath Torshak, Paladin of the Lost, Shaman of the Damned, Master Armorsmith

    My other "crack would be cheaper" hobby
    http://ssilmath.deviantart.com/

  19. #19

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Paladin

    Implement Life Attack I-V that requires life skill shoot we have nature(skill) flame energy ice (spells) so why not a spell to add life damage

    Heck why not even add a life bolt line of spells to help those poor saps errr healers level a little easier without needing 100 in spiritist or druid

  20. #20

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Paladin

    Now that folks have had some time to play with the changes to Paladin (albeit minor ones) are there any out-standing issues? I know Life Attack is a popular suggestion. Any others?
    "Alea iacta est" -- Julius Caesar

    Toot shouted, voice shrill, "In the name of the Pizza Lord! Charge!" (Jim Butcher's Dresden Files)

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will spends it whole life believing that it is stupid." -- Albert Einstein

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