Dragons and their Roles

[Frith-Rae]

Actually, I have often thought that if the devs wanted to introduce alternate-classes for Dragons - it would be easiest to just put them in for after the 100 level mark (and would also assist with the idea that bipeds get ratings higher than that while dragons do not).

Basically kinda like what Amon lined up - only you could ONLY specialize into ANOTHER dragon class (i.e you'd go from Melee DPS to Caster, or Melee DPS to Healer schools) after you had passed you AROP (at 100). Then, as an Ancient, lore-wise, it would also make the most sense because well - now you are an Elder and thus you have the ability and knowledge now to be able to learn new fight/heal abilities...

Just an idea that would make it simpler than overhauling the entire 1-100 experience - just add an additional/expanded experience for post-100 dragons. (Or perhaps the overhaul is necessary to keep from being OP at higher ratings/post 100..or perhaps the power would be kept in check because taking on the new school means some of your previous abilities would be on shared timers with the new school-specific-abilities or totally locked out)

Anyway, just a suggestion to throw in...

[Xepher]

What Frith said is more or less what I thought the idea would be; dragons who reach the level of Ancienthood, or, at LEAST Adulthood (Would require more work, but also makes sense, and not all dragons want to go past adulthood so it would be fair as well) would have the opportunity to branch off into a more specialized talent, melee, caster, or healer, and do quests/earn abilities appropriate to that choice.

The faction choice has always been a nice touch, but it really isn't enough to make dragons diverse at all. The stat boosts do little and there's nothing to tell us which dragons are what faction-wise.

[Akrion]

@ Frith-Rae & Xeffer

It would still require changing how Dragon players are used to playing. Either that, or there would be no reason to take a class. Melee Dragons can already Primal Cast Breath of Flame Burst / Drulkar's Wrath alongside tossing a Gold Rage every 15 seconds, what reason do they have to specialize any if they can already do much of what's worth doing?

In order to make specializing worth while without changing what Dragons can already do, the devs would need to provide abilities for these classes that prove more powerful/effective than abilities like Gold Rage already do, and the devs are already unhappy with the current nature of Gold Rage. So either Dragons would need to be changed regardless making new classes after level 100 somewhat pointless, or Dragons would need to be given abilities that are even more powerful than Gold Rage to make taking a class worth while.

One thing I don't like about some of the suggestions in this thread is that it always seems to be geared towards 'This should be reserved to Ancients' (though Virtrium has already been going in this direction anyway) .. In my opinion, being an Ancient is supposed to be a bonus over what you already get as an Adult, it shouldn't be the basis of how Dragons are played, which making classes 'Ancient Only' would accomplish. Ancient shouldn't mean that a Dragon is suddenly able to focus entirely on primal magic, it should simply mean that they can be that much more effective at it.

It's almost like 'Adult' is really viewed instead as 'Adolescent' or 'Teenager', where I think Adult should be the 'default state' of a Dragon, grown up from being a hatchling but not yet 'worthy' of being an Ancient. Adults are the 'stage' where Dragons would spend much of their life being and is where they would accomplish most of their learning. Ancient is supposed to be a special thing and should be the ending point of amassing a lot of power / knowledge, not the starting point. The absolute refinement of said knowledge, so to speak, not where they can actually begin learning.

[Xepher]

I actually agree Aki, I mentioned in my post that I'd like to see this begin at the Adult stage. It just makes more sense, and is fair to players who prefer to stay Adult.

[Raptress]

Agreeing that most of a dragon's development should take place during the adult stage, not the ancient stage.

Ancients were supposed to be somewhat special in the past. I remember a lot of people were actually disappointed with the relatively low requirements of the ARoP when it came out. It seems more and more like you guys at Virtrium don't see ancient this way, but rather you see it as the stage that all dragons are going to be in the end.

To me, the game of being a dragon should begin when the dragon becomes an adult. An ancient dragon seems as if it should have already amassed most of its power long ago, and be pretty set in its ways already.

The fact that dragons only start to specialize after becoming ancient also means that throughout Istaria's history, all adult dragons (which is probably the bulk of them) didn't bother specializing between casting and melee until the Gate of Embers reappeared. That doesn't make any sense when there are dragons talking about great warriors and mages during certain quests.

Blagh, not very good at making a point today. To sum it up: I'm disappointed that ancient dragons seem to be the focus. Ancient status, to me, should be like a bonus on top of the adult game, where the bulk of the content should be. That's also more of a general concern about some design decisions that have been made in the past, not just about this issue.

Just to bring a little attention to it though, this thread did begin talking about dragons taking on other roles, not just getting classes to let them specialize in the roles they already have. In this theoretical future where dragons have classes, will we ever see a dragon healer, for example? A specialized tank who has other variations on Shield of Gold and Spiked Scales? Or perhaps a support class dealing in debuffs and life-stealing?

[Morinare_Blackclaw]

As a newly-ascended Adult (yesterday!!), I'd very happily play Morinare "differently" if there were real differences in factions (as is explicitly laid out in the lore and information within the game) or if there were specific "classes" that an Adult dragon could embark on. What this might mean to those with existing Adults/Ancients is beyond my ken, since Morinare is my one-and-only; seems to me, though, that it'd be interesting for all to have the ability to do something "different" from everyone else.

Even as things exist, I play Morinare as a Helian spell-caster/crafter; in combat, he'll use every range spell he can to inflict as much damage as possible before a critter can close...get there fustest with the mostest, as Nathan Bedford Forrest is often misquoted. I'd happily give up some of my melee-related abilities, spells, skills, IF that meant that my ranging was more powerful.

During solo combat, this obviously changes I'd have to approach various critters. It'd be a much more realistic, patient stalk, waiting for just the right moment to strike, doing maximum damage before I have to use my now-weakened melee attacks to finish the critter off.

But, it would also give me a real role in multiple-combat situations. I'd act as "artillery" as well as (in a perfect world) also being able to rapidly heal a number of melee dragons.

Obviously, I'm in favor of any changes being done at the Adult level; I agree with others that this stage should be the one where we spend the bulk of our time in Istaria.

A lot of this, of course, is purely "style." I play Morinare the way I play him because it's how I *want* to play him. I can make-do with things as they are...but, it sure would be nice if there really was a major difference 'tween Lunus and Helian, as all the lore states.

[Dragonboy]

Alright, I'll run with this idea. Say we did introduce a "new" line of Dragon schools that only new characters could get. Off the top of my head here are some thoughts.

Quests: These would either go away or be spread out across multiple schools. Otherwise the power curve would remain as it is, quite steep.

Schools:
Hatchling - Name of the school, joined on Skalkaar
Current skill gain rate.
Breath of Fire II, III
Must reach level 90 to begin Rite of Passage.

Adult - Name of the school, join AFTER Rite of Passage
Gains DragonBreath at 11/lvl and Armor skill at 8/lvl
Breath of Ice, Lightning, Flame Burst
Gains an Improved Silver Strike
Must reach level 90 to begin Ancient Rite of Passage.

Conquerer - Melee-focused school, join AFTER Ancient Rite of Passage
Gains Tooth&Claw at 11/lvl
Gains Gold Rage
Can Learn Drain Strike
Breath of Acid

Primalist - Melee-focused school, join AFTER Ancient Rite of Passage
Gains Primal at 11/lvl
Gains Gold Burst
Can Learn Drain Bolt
Gains a Primal Breath of some sort

So if I get this straight we have Hatchling school and Adult school after which we are allowed to multi-class with 2 additional schools?

If yes this leaves me with some questions.
1. Considering the so-called hatchling school requires lvl 90 to advance towards Adult will experience gain remain what they are now or will leveling be faster then normal?

2. Provided the Istaria wiki is still correct and all basic stats gain (Strength, Dexterity, Power and Focus) is 7/lvl, will this in the Adult school be increased up 8/lvl?

3. I see that Conquerer gain Gold Rage. Will this be removed from the Hatchling and Adult schools or will this ability merely transfer to Conquerer and not Primalist?

4. Provided the Istaria wiki is still correct and all basic stats gain (Strength, Dexterity, Power and Focus) is 7/lvl, will this be increased depending the school up to atleast 9?
Conquerer : 11 TnC/lvl – Strength and Dexterity 9/lvl.
Primalist : 11 Primal/lvl – Power and Focus 9/lvl.

5. Considering this suggestion seems more edged towards offensive melee or castings will any of these 2 schools receive additional healing spells or abilities?
If yes for abilities. Will these be masterable?
I am not much of a caster, but I love my healing.

6. One of the biggest complaints that we hear from people that like casting is that melee abilities do limited damage. Would it be an idea to make all abilities EXCEPT Gold Rage and Gold Burst make the skill check for both TnC and Primal and use which is higher?

[AmonGwareth]

Just to clarify my original reply... This wouldn't be changes to existing Dragons or characters as based upon many responses here and over the years it wouldn't be feasible to make changes to current schools. Instead, this would only work with new characters. i.e. your existing characters would stay as they are. I was just throwing out ideas, not specifics.

As far as the Factions, its always been my opinion that the factions didn't represent particular school choices. Rather, Helian are more scholarly and Lunus more militaristic. Those are attitudes, not preferences for melee over magic.

[Galdethriel]

I don't think that makes the idea any less appealing; it's a reason to play a new hatchie at the end of the day.

I also agree that if we were going to add classes to branch off into, it should be the adults that get them. But do we mean that Hatchlings would just keep the DRAG school, that could then be exchanged for another school upon completing the RoP? I'm a little slow today and confused. XD

Maybe each faction could have appropriately named classes that are basically equivalent to each other but would help you tell who the Dragon is aligned with?

Sorry... like I said, I'm a little brainfried today and I'm having trouble keeping up. I'm liking the positive attitudes though. XD

~Galde

[Frith-Rae]

Ahh, I See with several explanations - you all make good points. My reasoning for giving it "after ancient" was I guess centered around the idea of a "end game", giving more content to end-level progression (the way bipeds have it anyway..), as opposed to it just being "the end" of all advancement (outside of tech farming..).

But I definitely see the logic with the "adult required, not ancient" POV and can certainly see the benefit and point of doing something like this during that time. But as you said Raptress - the devs don't see Ancients as s something special (and you are right, they never have and I don't think that was ever their intention) - and for right now, the reason players stop at Adult is simply lacking a real reason to continue to Ancienthood (myself included..).

Whereas putting these schools as "endgame content" gives more incentive/a REAL reason/ to get to Ancient.

I don't think that makes the idea any less appealing; it's a reason to play a new hatchie at the end of the day.

I am not posting to be contrary or argumentative or a party pooper - but yea, actually, it makes the idea hugely less appealing. I am saying this to present the other side of that statement - because there WILL be backlash to that.

There is a good portion of the player base (ones who have been wanting this since launch, some of them, for example) who have NO desire to level up ANOTHER character. Dragons who feel already put-out beacause there are new heads we still don't have an option of taking advantage of (though supposedly is still coming) - and you want to add what would among to not only a bunch of dev time but a HUGE change to dragon-play - that forces a reroll.

Some of us who have been here awhile (and even those who haven't) are already dried-out on the older content (including the new/old content) - are dried out on the grindfest that is leveling/trophy etc. and dread having to farm up new techs for new gear and such.

To put in something as game changing as this - but only for new players - could be perceived as a huge slap in the face to a great portion of the "elder" player base - enough to even cause some of them to quit, I'd say.

Perhaps that by itself is enough of an argument to warrant this being an "ancient progression only" just to prevent having only have it for new-dragon-rollers.

Though Akrion I do understand the point behind your comments about having to rewrite the dragon game anyway. I hadn't really thought about those points, or at least, not enough to be able ot explain it through written form . And you are right, I see that unless you just wanted "schools" in name only (i.e. only makes already given abilities fall under that school, but offers nothing new to learn..) then it would take that rewrite one way or the other.

Which leads to a giant headache in dev - how devs would be able to balance "old adults/ancients" who aren't in these new schools with those dragons who roll into the new schools - seems like a huge nightmare to try and keep "general old dragons" balanced with "new dragons" so that neither OP the other one at the end of the day! If you say your classic dragon is the best DPSer - do you take away those abilities that a part of a "new dragons" school (I.e. sheid of gold, gold rage, primal burst, rez/heals?) - because that then gimps the current classic dragon. But if you don't, and then seperate those abilities out for the "new dragons", then they will wonder why they cant have everything the classic dragon has... Seems an almost impossible mission...without sending out the message that one or the other is irreparably broke, or meant to be "phased out" as those older players leaves?

I would not be for developing something so huge that requires a reroll at this point *shrugs*. Would I love to have true casting and true healer type dragons? HEck yea I would! But at the backlash and balancing nightmare it would be over the next 2+years or so, the effect on the community through it all - makes me really wonder if we "want what we ask for".

Esp. when I can think of ways of tweaking current state of dragons, adding a few abilities here and there with shared timers to other, already given, abilities - that could create the same end-state (totally viable dragon casters, and dragon healers) without asking anyone to reroll or adding entire classes full of abilities or worrying that new-dragons OP old-dragons or...well..any of those headaches. Could take the same amount of work, sure - but wouldn't end with elder dragons feeling gipped/slapped and allowing EVERYONE at ANY stage in the game to change their gameplay accordingly... (Seriously!)

So yea, its a huge appeal loss - and I know Im not alone.

[Raptress]

I think one of the main reasons Amon is talking about this being new character only is because whatever backlash that may have pales in comparison to the backlash that would probably occur if all existing dragons were changed. Or it could just be for testing, I don't know.

For example, the devs don't even want to try tweaking Gold Rage - the ability that single-handedly makes balancing dragons almost impossible - for fear of a massive ragequit.

Now imagine that, but altering every aspect of how dragons play on the adventure side.

Also.. new heads? What? The only head-related thing I can think of was the addition of "correct" khutit heads, and that's certainly in-game already.

[Akrion]

Dragons who feel already put-out beacause there are new heads we still don't have an option of taking advantage of (though supposedly is still coming)

New heads? There's no new modeling for new heads that I know of. o.O Perhaps you could explain which heads you're talking about?

Some of us who have been here awhile (and even those who haven't) are already dried-out on the older content (including the new/old content) - are dried out on the grindfest that is leveling/trophy etc. and dread having to farm up new techs for new gear and such.

And yet there still remain so many players, old and new, that want to be able to multiclass Dragons like bipeds can, which becomes nothing but grinding mobs progressively less effectively until the 6th class at which point hopefully you were lucky to know ahead of time to not use any trophies to grind those first 6 classes so that you can more effectively grind every class after that because your rating will be so high that trophies will become the only way to gain any experience.

Which leads to a giant headache in dev - how devs would be able to balance "old adults/ancients" who aren't in these new schools with those dragons who roll into the new schools - seems like a huge nightmare to try and keep "general old dragons" balanced with "new dragons" so that neither OP the other one at the end of the day! If you say your classic dragon is the best DPSer - do you take away those abilities that a part of a "new dragons" school (I.e. sheid of gold, gold rage, primal burst, rez/heals?) - because that then gimps the current classic dragon. But if you don't, and then seperate those abilities out for the "new dragons", then they will wonder why they cant have everything the classic dragon has... Seems an almost impossible mission...without sending out the message that one or the other is irreparably broke, or meant to be "phased out" as those older players leaves?

Well I suggested the new dragon race as a means to test out major changes and see how the community feels about the new concept so that it could perhaps, at some point, be pushed in to completely replace the current design.

I'm sure I've made it clear over the past 2 years that I'm far from the most sympathetic towards the Devs, however I do feel for Amon and any of the other Devs that want to revamp the entire Dragon class. They get old and new players saying they hate being unable to multiclass like Bipeds yet know that the changes they would need to make so Dragons could multiclass and so they would feel more balanced would make many of the old and some of the new players hate the changes. Really sort of a damned if they do, damned if they don't situation.

So this is specifically why I suggested the new dragon race as it could perhaps be a way that Amon could introduce completely redesigned Dragon mechanics that could be a sort of middle ground between both problems. And thinking more of it, I know I've seen a mechanic similar to this on another game.

@ Amon: Have you ever played Neverwinter Nights (Or perhaps D&D because NWN is based on it..)? If so, do you remember/know of the Race and Subrace? Such as Human being a selectable race yet one could also choose Aasimar, Tiefling, etc. as Human Subraces? This is just a wild idea, of course, but perhaps you may be able to work with something like that to work in classable Dragons. Also, Raptress is telling me of another idea similar to this but it could be something else for you to consider. She wants to think it out a bit more first but she'll make a post about her idea in a bit.

[Raptress]

This is a completely out-there idea, so I have no expectations. I'm just throwing it out there because I might as well.

Giving dragons true multiclassing like bipeds have may make the two too similar, and that's a problem. Bipeds don't need any fewer players than they already have, but here we are talking about dragons being able to gain the roles that bipeds used to fill exclusively.

So, perhaps instead of multiclassing, dragons will instead only be able to take two schools: the "default" one hatchlings get, then their "true" class which the player would choose after becoming an adult. It would be a choice between the classes that could not be taken back; if you choose to become a Primalist, then that's what you are. No taking Conqueror later to round out your arsenal with melee attacks.

Hatchlings would begin in a "default" class - sort of a mash-up of the skills that the adult classes will have so that players can explore some of the aspects of each school to make the later choice easier. It would be similar to today's DRAG class, just with more balance between melee, casting, healing, support, etc. It probably wouldn't have Gold Rage. :P

Once the hatchling has completed the RoP and become an adult, they would take a quest to gain their chosen profession. Completion of this quest would lock the dragon into the choice, much like the RoP locks the dragon into their faction. It would still be possible to switch to DRAG and back, just not into any of the other adult classes. (I also imagine that the DRAG school would be the only one with masterable skills; rewards for going back and taking it to 100)

This way, dragons can take on different roles, but still remain very unique from bipeds. You can have a dragon healer, but you can't have a dragon healer+mage+warrior+... The design team would also not have to be torn on, e.g., adding things on the casting side because they don't want to power up the melee side like they are with today's DRAG class. All the classes would be separate, and changes made to one would not impact the others.

This makes sense to me lore-wise too. Bipeds on the whole are more industrious and experimental than dragons, which are creatures of pride and tradition. Switching around your role all the time would quite possibly be something dragons would look down upon. You pick what you're going to do and you do it. If you don't like it, suck it up and try harder. Dragons are just portrayed as creatures that are very stuck in their ways, and this class system would reflect that. I don't imagine there are very many scholars that decide one day to drop their quill and pick up a claw gauntlet in dragon society. x3

As I see it, all the classes would be handled as an adult. Going ancient would be like a bonus, not the absolute focus of every dragon player. You'd get the bonus stats like velocity and the extra abilities like Breath of Flame Burst (and I guess it could still unlock quests like Drulkar's Wrath if you guys at VI are absolutely adamant about it), but a player could still experience the majority of what being a dragon has to offer without ever becoming an ancient. The point is: a dragon is played for the majority of time as an adult. By the time they're ancient, the character is already almost fully developed. I mean.. it's called an ancient, right?

Again, just a wild idea. No one hurt me! xD

[Raptress]

Addendum: If being totally locked into one class with no going back is too harsh, then perhaps the player could undergo a quest to change their class. Either the player would have to drop the other class completely in addition to doing the quest (which could include a good amount of silver being paid as well as some sort of trial) or the player would have to do the quest every time they want to switch. That would allow a player to change their mind, but it still makes the choice important and retains the idea that you're really supposed to be dedicated to your chosen path.

If the player is allowed to keep their previous adult class, then as little as possible would carry over. There wouldn't be any masterable abilities between them and all spells would be limited to the class that's supposed to be using them. Stats and skills would carry over, I guess, but there's not really any way around that as far as I know.

[Galdethriel]

To put in something as game changing as this - but only for new players - could be perceived as a huge slap in the face to a great portion of the "elder" player base - enough to even cause some of them to quit, I'd say.

Why? They give you multiple character slots for a reason. And if you think about it, you really only need one Biped... XD

Besides, I see loads of players who I KNOW have a maxed dragon and they're running around playing what is now a high level dragon alt anyway. The general population can't be that sick of levelling. XD

I could sort of understand the feeling if the new content was actually restricted to new players as opposed to just new characters, and the older Dragons that by this logic retain the original DRAG school will actually be really powerful and more versitile than the new Dragon schools, give or take a bit of crappiness in some areas. It'd be like... well, older characters already are special in comparison to newer ones. They often have old items and the like that really mark them as a veteran. I suppose the class changes would just have to be another one of those things.

I actually blabbed so much, now I've forgotten what I was originally going to say. D: ...oh yes. Lore! You could also write some new lore behind the changes, perhaps new quests, new Dragon NPCs (charismatic iconic Draconic characters! Leaders? Usurpers? There's so much that could be done. Controversy beyond the long-dead long-ignored Faction differences. Ooo. Okay, yep, that's going with 'Flesh out Bipedial Races' as my next threads to harrass VI with. Mwahaha!)...

...less caffeine, more sleep. X3

Raptress I really like that idea, but I would prefer if it was harsher... no changing classes. Ever. People get over not being able to go bip-bop-boop and pop from a healer to a warrior in other games, I'm pretty sure it would be accepted here too. And it would stop really rich older players from reducing it to something trivial and ending up filling all the roles anyway, as opposed to just one which I think might be better for grouping.

~Galde

[veahl]

I've seen this topic discussed a lot in the past; whether or not it would be a good idea to give dragons more customization, and the ability to mold their characters into such a way that they can take on different roles in battle. (Healer, tank, DPS)

Right now, dragons really only make a good DPS (excellent, actually, if you're melee spec'ed and don't mind burning hoard), but there are plenty of people who want to be able to have their dragons be powerful mages or healers.

Originally, I used to think that Lunus would be melee-DPS and tanks, and Helians would be mage-DPS and healers. But Amon's statement about Lunus and Helian philosophy being more about opinions towards CULTURE and not combat style has made me think otherwise.

And since Istaria is currently infested with legions of undead, and the Gifted are expected to fight them, it makes sense that any dragon would want to maximize their fighting potential. And it's already obvious that a player can learn things from both Helians and Lunus; the training tasks in Dralk and Chiconis are examples of both Helian and Lunus philosophy being learned by a single dragon.

So a powerful Lunus mage, or a powerful melee Helian shouldn't be that strange of an idea; it would fall in like with the current world lore. And while it would be nice to have more 'variation' and 'differences' between the two fractions- beyond a simple aesthetic taste- limiting a player's ability to fight the way they want to might be the wrong way to go about it.

So far, the suggestion is that dragons have their current DRAG class changed- but from what I've read, it seems that only new players would benefit from this, and the older characters wouldn't get anything. And, ultimately, the end-game dragon capability would remain the same.

You would still have people wanting to be mages, healers, and tanks. Unless I've misunderstood something from my read-through.

I know it's probably been suggested before, and obviously shot down several times since it's not already in the game, but- what if dragons could actually have multiple schools, in a similar fashion to what bi-peds have?
I know some people won't like that idea; "Dragons shouldn't be like bi-peds!" "The DRAG school is already overpowered! It's just the combination of the bi-ped's schools raises their overall capabilities and make them seem weaker!" "I'M NOT A NAKA!"

And probably, it's those reasons, along with the sheer amount of WORK involved with making new schools, that will most likely result in my proposition being dismissed. But I thought I'd try, if only to raise my voice and add some- hopefully- new ideas to the bowl.

Dragons are supposed to be a race that have lost much of their knowledge and power over the years. A portion of it has been regained through the Ancient Rite of Passage, but it still seems to me that there could be more for them to learn/relearn.

Perhaps the two fractions, Helian and Lunus, could discover 'knowledge' that relates to their philosophies- Lunus having melee combative abilities and Helians having mystic abilities like healing?
Because a Gifted dragon needs to be as powerful as it could be, any player could switch to these schools, regardless of their fraction. (Which would be fair, because a lot of the older players may not appreciate having their desired 'role' unavailable to them because of their fraction choice that was made during a time BEFORE those particular consequences existed)

This post is long enough already, so I'll just jump to the point;
Chiconis could have a 'mage and healing' school, which draws on the DRAG's Primal and Power.
Dralk could have a 'tank and melee' school that draws on the DRAG's T&C and Strength.
Requirements;
Must have completed ROP and become an adult. (You'll be considered 'worthy' of teaching at that point, or something)

Because a lot of people frown on "200 rating", it would be best if the schools didn't give much power to each other. Therefore, DRAG would give to Helian, but Helian wouldn't give to DRAG. Vice-versa for Lunus.

The point of all this is to give dragons something NEW to do, as well as letting them have more options as to their function in battle.
But again, the amount of work that would be needed into creating something like two new schools is... a lot. So it probably won't happen.

[Dragonboy]

Perhaps the two fractions, Helian and Lunus, could discover 'knowledge' that relates to their philosophies- Lunus having melee combative abilities and Helians having mystic abilities like healing?
Because a Gifted dragon needs to be as powerful as it could be, any player could switch to these schools, regardless of their fraction. (Which would be fair, because a lot of the older players may not appreciate having their desired 'role' unavailable to them because of their fraction choice that was made during a time BEFORE those particular consequences existed)

This post is long enough already, so I'll just jump to the point;
Chiconis could have a 'mage and healing' school, which draws on the DRAG's Primal and Power.
Dralk could have a 'tank and melee' school that draws on the DRAG's T&C and Strength.
Requirements;
Must have completed ROP and become an adult. (You'll be considered 'worthy' of teaching at that point, or something)

Because a lot of people frown on "200 rating", it would be best if the schools didn't give much power to each other. Therefore, DRAG would give to Helian, but Helian wouldn't give to DRAG. Vice-versa for Lunus.

The point of all this is to give dragons something NEW to do, as well as letting them have more options as to their function in battle.
But again, the amount of work that would be needed into creating something like two new schools is... a lot. So it probably won't happen.

Most of what you say I agree with, BUT there is one thing in your post that should never have been linked in the first place and would be a perfect way to alter…
Lunus = Melee and Helian = Casting
This is not always true, the fact remains that being a Lunus or Helian in this time as a gifted is more like a way of thinking or a religion then a real faction. Lunus generally see bipeds as we see ants roaming around on the ground below us, while Helians think that bipeds could be educated. This is the main difference… That Dralk should have the melee school and Chiconis the Casting school is fine by me… Red is more sinister, while blue seems more peaceful. However the link between Lunus=Melee and Helian=Caster should be severed!!

[Phillip]

If draggies can be capable healers or mages, that would pretty much fleshed out biped for good. Much have been done over the years on that for those in the know. I haven't ran into a single DPS ped on my server since coming back. At endgame epics - the general notion is go healer for nothing else makes sense. Too large a gap to muster.

Seeing the imbalance in DPS currently I can't have faith on adding/introducing anything else to the four legged race - let's get real - much have been given and making 1-100 one time isn't anything to cough at. Something's got to give.

I've seen biped changes/fixes/revisions etc from items to abilties to spells to gear up the wazoo - to dependence on food and whatever else. All in the name of new/improve content for the better of Istaria. Maybe y'all are willing to play that though I suggest some prozac, possibly a butt-plug.

[Phillip]

This isn't to say that I don't favor a new, multiclassing dragon race. Keyword here is "new".

[Galdethriel]

Seeing the imbalance in DPS currently I can't have faith on adding/introducing anything else to the four legged race - let's get real - much have been given and making 1-100 one time isn't anything to cough at. Something's got to give.

It is unfair to Bipeds, but a lot of things are unfair to Dragons too. And at the end of the day, these shortcomings on both sides don't add anything. They're just imbalances, something for people to fight over and feel useless about. My personal opinion is that you can do it one of two ways.

1) Dragons and Bipeds are the same. And by the same, I don't mean cookie-cutter gameplay, I mean they can accomplish the same thing if that's what they really want to do. We can have Dragon healers and Biped healers... make the end result the same and the method of achieving that result different. Make the game PLAY differently. Make the mechanics change. Playing a Death Knight on WoW isn't like playing a Warrior, but at the end of the day, they can both achieve the same things if they put their minds to it. See what I'm getting at? It can be done. It's not easy, but it can be done.

2) All races require one another. And when I say all races, I mean -ALL- of the races. Maybe Half-Giants can't be alchemists, but Dryads can. Maybe Fiends can't be pure healers, but Humans can. See what I mean?

Buuuut the latter is never going to happen. Too much work, too many ragequits, etc. though I think it's a shame. Too much focus is placed upon the Dragons versus Biped thing and not enough on the Human versus Fiend versus Dryad versus Gnome etc. you get my point :P

...I think I just went on a tangent again.

OKAY. My point is, Bipeds DO need love. I'd be delighted for a Biped to be able to achieve DPS like a Dragon, heck, they could give Bipeds flying mounts and I'd be perfectly happy with that. (And to whoever's about to jump on me and start a 'Bipeds can't FLYYYY!' thing, don't, it's my opinion). But Dragons and all the Bipeds should be equals - in DPS, healing, and tanking - and I'm okay with Bipeds having some craft schools Dragons can't really compensate for... just give Dragons some Biped-useful craft schools. The crystalshaping school I used to hear rumours about would be great for that. But the roles are fairly basic stuff I think all the races should cover.

I mean, I'd honestly prefer it if every race in the game had distinct starting areas (or if shared starting areas that made some sense), quests, lore and schools, but I can understand the insane amount of work that would take. Instead we have this wierd divide where one side's only good at DPS and the other side is only ever played for healing, when really... Bipeds should be interesting to play, fun, have their own draw, their own perks, interesting lore and characterization... it's a problem that I really think needs to be tackled on BOTH sides. I'll make another thread on the Biped end of the stick, see what people think there, just to keep this one on topic-ish.

Sorry for my rambling...

~Galde