Question on stances - Devs please!!

[Finkledbody]

When this game first came out in december of 02, I recall vividly monsters using stances... During battle, the gifted would need to be diligent in switching back and forth between red, green, and blue. I remember there being a big difference in the damage received and given if ya got it wrong... The way I remember it, mobs stopped using stances at some point.. can't remember when exactly effectively making em useless to keep in your hotkeys.. Thats the way I understood it anyways. Thats what I have played by...



Well today it was brought to my attention that using the red stance does 120% of dmg when using only crit strike, power strike, etc. I tested this and found NO difference what so ever.. But many other gifted are swearing up and down istaria that it makes a difference.

So I decided to read them over VERY carefully. Specifically the red one as this is the stance all are swearing by. It reads as follows...


"The character deals more damage against targets in green stanes, but takes more damge from targets in blue stances."

"Delay 20
"Recycle 0:10"
"Range Self only"
"Tartget effect: Red"
"Incoming in blue stance - Does 120% of damage"

Well Its pretty clear to me that you wont do any extra damage because the mobs dont' use stances anymore like they did WAY back in the day. Am I accurate? Or does one actually do more damage? And If so, why then were these not re-written?


And If I'm right.. Why, when this working system of stances, would you take them out? Feels like another dumb down to me...

Either way it doesn't bother me. I will happily play this game one way or another.. I know there is a million bugs in this game, and I understand little new content will be made... But I still enjoy it. So ill be around for awhile..

As the gifted though, I am truly curious. Pleaase shed light on this topic and put to rest a debate that seems silly to me in the first place.

[AmonGwareth]

There are two issues here that are separate and distinct from one another.

The first is how Stances play against one another. The Stance itself has a weakness against one other stance, creating a rock-paper-scissors sort of game. However, since monsters don't use stances any longer that portion of it isn't meaningful.

The other issue is that specific abilities are setup to get bonus damage when you are in one particular stance. Power Strike and others of this sort typically give a bonus when in one stance, I believe some of the Scout abilities give a bonus when in another stance, and so forth. The stance won't list which abilities do this, only the individual abilities will list which Stance they give bonus damage while you are in.

Hope that clears it up.

[AmonGwareth]

Either way it doesn't bother me. I will happily play this game one way or another.. I know there is a million bugs in this game, and I understand little new content will be made... But I still enjoy it. So ill be around for awhile..

I do have to respond to this as it concerns me. We regularly put out at least three very large updates a year with tons of content, fixes, and features. In fact, we just released a sizable update only a few weeks ago with new content for plots, a new dungeon for players to enjoy, and numerous other tweaks and fixes.

You can see notes about all of our updates here: http://community.istaria.com/libraries/?id=1

[Finkledbody]

The other issue is that specific abilities are setup to get bonus damage when you are in one particular stance. Power Strike and others of this sort typically give a bonus when in one stance, I believe some of the Scout abilities give a bonus when in another stance, and so forth. The stance won't list which abilities do this, only the individual abilities will list which Stance they give bonus damage while you are in.

Can these be re-written so there isn't any further confusion? They still read same from the day the game was made... These discriptions are not indicating that these stances do what you say they do.. They read specifically that they only do increased damage when being used against an enemy using another colored stance..

[Finkledbody]

I do have to respond to this as it concerns me. We regularly put out at least three very large updates a year with tons of content, fixes, and features. In fact, we just released a sizable update only a few weeks ago with new content for plots, a new dungeon for players to enjoy, and numerous other tweaks and fixes.

You can see notes about all of our updates here: http://community.istaria.com/libraries/?id=1

I've only been back for a little over two weeks. Please excuse the way I worded it. I meant A large addition to the game, something of which people on other games enjoy like Wow.. Where the addition is so large they have to sell it as a disc..(edit: I recongnize this is more of a money thing for the other game, and the devs team is significantly larger, I'm just using it as an example) . Do I want this with this game? NO! I dislike those other mmos because the focus is on the newest update and gettting all the lastest gear.. It forces one to be a hardcore gamer just to keep up.

I'm not into those things. I'm a casual gamer that enjoys whats giving to me.. I truly believe you all have done a fantastic job making this game into what it is today. Making it a chellenging; yet rewarding game without being overwhelming. You have made a game where to different kinds of gamers can play in a single world. The hardcore gamer, and the casual gamer.

As the devs, you have made yourself accessable when questions like this arise. You answer them promptly and accordenly. (I'm tired, my spelling isn't so good right now)

So as a player of this game, back from a long break. Far to long really. I want to thank you for the continued dedication to making a 9 year old game live on. My hats of to this team of devs

[AmonGwareth]

Can these be re-written so there isn't any further confusion? They still read same from the day the game was made... These discriptions are not indicating that these stances do what you say they do.. They read specifically that they only do increased damage when being used against an enemy using another colored stance..

Actually, if you take a look at Power Strike V it says:

A special attack that deals 25 additional damage. Deals more damage from Red Stance.

and...

When Used
Recycle 0:30
Range 0
+25 damage
+10 attack skill (chance to hit)

Attacks Only in Red Stance
+25 damage

So, when you are in Red Stance and use Power Strike V it will give you a bonus of +25 damage to your hit.

[Finkledbody]

Actually, if you take a look at Power Strike V it says:



and...



So, when you are in Red Stance and use Power Strike V it will give you a bonus of +25 damage to your hit.

Awesome, thanks for the further clearification.. This is making it much easier for me to understand now. I see that crit stike IV does 120% when used in blue stance.


Is there anyway you as a dev, could look into rewording whats written in the stances themselves? Sorta like how the techs show what they are good for. Example - The mithril golem frags clearly show that they are good for techs One-hand slash V, Metalworking V, Smelting V, Armor V, etc.

Could we have the red stance say - Increases damage by +25 to Power strike V, etc. Possibly in list form similar to those?

By having these indicated in the stances themselves. It would be more clear in my opinion and would help me know exactly when to use what stances. And would give me fore site into which stance to be using later when I level and get higher tiered abilitys. Just having them all consilidated under one list like those of techs really helps me organize things in my brain and prepare my hotkeys accordingly

[Theramin]

You can always head out to the arena and verify that the damage changes against other stances :-)

[Riaken]

Damage variation is so all over the place it is hard to see if it works. There is no way to keep a consistant damage output or even test what your cap is and how to keep damage close to it. I've smacked lvl 1 mobs to Deers and I can get a 200 damage variation most of the time.

Devs need to tighten up the damage on weapons. Every weapon has a range of what the damage is done and If I'm correct you multiple that by the delay in seconds. Then weapon skill and strength play a role plus the many abilities and passives in game. I know in DAOC you can find your cap damage by hitting a lvl 1 mob.

I mean what is the formula for damage delt? As far as the stances, pick the ability you use the most and if it says use a certain stance for a bennefit keep it on at all times. I keep blue stance up all the time for that big critical strike damage that ranges from 2k to 4k. But most people want to craft or fly.

[phoxytwicks]

Can I just add (since Chaos is inaccessible )

I had a brief look at stances, as and when I acquired them as a Warrior.

I personally felt the benefits of them were not that noticable, to make me plan, when and how to use. Due to this, I never paid them any attention.

From the posts below, it is apparent there are reasons to use them, but in consideration the ammount of skills that come(especially if you are a crafter also) at a low level, I think its a complication I don't want to bother with, as I already use 3 hot bars and I'm only a 21 Spearman (Warrior) and 20 Blacksmith.

Perhaps this is more of a reflection of the player I am, more than anything, but I hope my comments are somewhat useful :-)