Why don't you have a plot?

[Steelclaw]

Well, not that you must have a plot in order to play, but I'm curious as to why so many plots remain for sale.

To those who have open plot slots:
1) Why haven't you purchased a plot yet?

To everyone:
2) Other than a free or discounted plot slot, what would it take to entice you to purchase a(nother) plot and start building it up?

No promises that anything said in this thread will result in changes (or not result in changes ). I'm just trying to understand what's going on.

[lightning claw]

Steel you are as old if not older than I . I can recall a time when Plots where Hard to come by not cause the plot reclamation was inactive but because the number of players on the shards where infinite now istaria has a smaller player base sure some people sub up for a month or 2 to get the rop done but few trainees that i have trained have stayed to reach ancient . The game population is low but healthy never the less

Also Lair work are you serious Its a Pain the the tail scale Endless Month's Digging over and over again gets boring and people leave . I Had a plot i know best insomnia medication there is is to log in and start digging i was out in 30 minutes face planted on my keyboard

[Shian]

To those who have open plot slots:
1) Why haven't you purchased a plot yet?

I save a plot slot about once every three months for plot swapping. It's tedious, but there are times when you need to juggle plots between your characters and that can't be done without a free plot slot. I have also used it to get plots that are in unsold guild territory.

To everyone:
2) Other than a free or discounted plot slot, what would it take to entice you to purchase a(nother) plot and start building it up?

Plots are one thing, lairs are another.

As with all real estate, location, size and distance to a portal/pad are the factors. If one of those are out of alignment, then the plot is not purchased.

From what I've seen, Prime Plots more often than not are staged around resources for the good of the community. If you have a plot next to no resource, what good does it do?

Lairs take years to finish, so I doubt that any casual player has any need or want for another because they are still working on the one.... two years later. As a dragon it would be nice to also have a plot somewhere with silos I can reach anywhere in the plot instead of having to walk around the place. If you have people that have lairs, this 'years to build' endeavor is probably why they don't buy a small plot somewhere for more storage.

That's my current take on it anyways.

[Tamianth]

My ped has a plot but.........I think the plots that are still around are just way too small to be useful. Even the 100x50 that I have, just cannot get much on it, so how could anyone really do much with a 40x40, or 50x50.

[Fratricide]

I am quite sure that some folks do not own plots because they are adventurous folks and they don't spend the time or energy to build a plot, because they care not to do any crafting.

I personally own a plot currently, though not closest to a pad, nor the largest in the area, the plots close to the pad I was tempted to pick up were a tad smaller then what I felt I would need in the long run.

I know that there has been some plot resizing in the past, and more is planned in the future, but there are plots in locations that there is no reason to put roots down there. Either no resources, no outbound portal there, relatively small plot sizes, and just no inherent ambiance. I mean.. if there is no trees.. no resources.. no nothing, its basically a desert.. How many people do you know that move someplace IRL that has no draw for them there? If there is no Job, no Industry, no Beauty, no $1,000,000 view, and nothing else but empty plots there, even having a 100x100 plot you will find folks that will pick it up for a nominal price, but I can pretty much guarantee that the plot will go unfinished for like... ever.

I used to have a 91x91 plot before I took a break from the game. I only had half of the plot even planned (because it is so Friggin time consuming to try to fit the crap you want in). I now have a plot that's like 70x60 or something like that, those who have seen it can attest that I still have virtually nothing on it but storage. I decided to put a confectioner shop on it today because I decided to lvl confectioner. Otherwise the shop and the storage units associated with it wouldn't even be there because I prefer to have useful open space, not a silo farm or a plot that has to have every single shop on the place.

I find it interesting that if someone were to try to put a T6 guildhouse on a plot, there are only so many plots that one of those can fit on. Can all the guild master plots even handle it? If not, perhaps that should be looked at as well. Also, I find it pointless that some buildings are so friggin huge that there is no point in putting them on a plot because that makes your whole plot useless except for that one object.

I know that redoing all the assets (buildings etc) would not be feasible, but realistically, if I wanted a T6 guild-house, and a Large tavern on the same plot.. Even if I had a plot big enough to do so, good luck with actually putting anything else worth a darn on the plot as well.

Now, Im not saying that every plot needs to have a portal in and out in its community.. that would be going overboard.. but every other town perhaps. The plots that are closer to the portals should be smaller, and the further away ones, larger... I mean.. isnt that kind of how it is IRL? The rich folks live on the outskirts in big palatial residences.. and the poorer, or business types, live closer in town with smaller plots that are useful for crap other then just decoration.

I actually wouldn't have the plot I have currently if I didn't need the storage space for the overfilled vault I had. I merely bought out of necessity more then desire.

Also, if your working on plots and stuff associated with it, perhaps there would be a way to fix the permission stuff... We had an issue today where the plot owner wanted to have select folks to access certain buildings.. the guild access others.. and everyone access yet others... except, the building permissions only allow none, guild, and all... not LIST. Setting permissions on the actual Plot is quite pointless, unless of course, that changes who can and cannot apply units to the buildings on said plot.

[C`gan]

I've got two plots. What would it take for me to get another? I have to get my personal financial situation better than what it is. I'm planning on getting a third subscription and making things happen when I can afford another subscription.

[Raptress]

I don't have any open slots, but I can chime in for the second question...

While I probably would add more plot subs to my account if I were to just have no reason to worry about money, it's gotten to the point where I just know that I'm never going to finish them. I may never finish what I've got on my plate now.

I've been working on my first lair off and on for at least two years; it's almost done now, but "almost" means it isn't finished yet. And that was when I didn't have a 40 hour/week job. And then I've got a second lair that I foolishly planned a Grand Hall in. And then I've got a biped plot that I haven't even planned because planning those things gets to be painful after an hour or two spent just trying to figure out the perimeter walls.

I just don't have the time. Trust me, I'd want yet more property, but it's just gotten to the point that I have to stop myself from wasting money on things I know I will never build.

[Thicklesip]

The thing stopping me from picking up another property is the commitment demands. The plot reclamation system was EXTREMELY necessary back in the day and I can't think of any better system for the present. However, it turns my subscription into a source of management stress: either "am I SURE I have the money" stress or "spend an entire day's free time storing everything on mule characters then decon everything on the plot and then DO IT IN REVERSE when I start playing again" stress. I don't find either of those fun.


Not directly related, but I want to note that as Fratricide pointed out a lot of the plots and lairs are just not attractive. Too small, too absurdly far from portals/pads/resources/interesting scenery, or (worst of all) too expensive for all its flaws. Back when properties all but had waiting lists players put up with these sorts of deterrents, but now? There is a lair outside Kion, priced at 2g852s (more than my lair just outside Dralk!) whose dimensions are 72x72x240. That's eleven stories of 3x3 floors. That's not a lair, that's a chimney the swifts can barely wedge themselves into. According to Bristugo.com, this lair has been on the market on Order shard for more than two years.

Not that every property needs to be dirt cheap or a stone's throw from a portal or have palatial dimensions. There's just too many right now where the only good thing you can say about them is that they ARE a property. In the face of all the really good ones that exist, that's pretty faint praise indeed.

[LOVWYRM]

We love plots and lairs.
Flame and me have 1 lair and several plots.

I do not care if a porter or mashines are near- or ressources.

As long as

the plot is big enough(at least 80/80)

The area is special ( e.g. Mia`s Edge, Genevia and some more)

Or the plot has a nice feature near (like the cows and carots in front of my plot in Heather, butterflies in Mia`s, waterturtle in Genevia)

[Tcei]

For me, when I still played, one thing that ultimately kept me from owning a plot/lair was the fact that I cant keep a consistent sub. Like Thickle said it frustrating to try to keep a lair/plot only to know you're going to loose everything the next time you cant afford to pay the sub.

I wonder if it'd be possible to pay a fee preserve you plot for a certain amount of months, provided you either paid the gifted sub or had no sub at all. If you went to the basic sub the plot reclamation would take over like normal...or something to that effect.

That way if a person has to leave, for say 3months, and can't pay the monthly sub to keep their plot. They can pay a 1 time fee to preserve it for those few months. If at the end of that period they still couldn't afford the monthly sub, they could pay the fee again to preserve it for another 3, or not and let the reclamation process take over.

I'd also avoid making it a recurring option so that people would have to come back (and thus hopefully encourage them to play again), and to help avoid having someone who doesnt play, or pay a sub, owning a plot indefinitely.

[meepsa]

I don't own a plot currently because well, I don't have a sub right now XD but at the times that I DID have a sub, I always spend most of my time switching plots, and there have been only 3 times that I've bought a lair, but those just take too darned long (and are always too small for what I plan XD)

as for what would make me buy one, and I might be kicking a dead horse here but, castle plots? IIRC these were planned AGES ago or something, but they definately seemed like fun and something that someone like me would certainly spend their good time building.

[Frith-Rae]

For me, when I still played, one thing that ultimately kept me from owning a plot/lair was the fact that I cant keep a consistent sub. Like Thickle said it frustrating to try to keep a lair/plot only to know you're going to loose everything the next time you cant afford to pay the sub.

I wonder if it'd be possible to pay a fee preserve you plot for a certain amount of months, provided you either paid the gifted sub or had no sub at all. If you went to the basic sub the plot reclamation would take over like normal...or something to that effect.

Well, not that you must have a plot in order to play, but I'm curious as to why so many plots remain for sale.

My immediate answer to your overall question - there are far more plots than players. Period. (Even counting the ones noone ever really wants for all the reasons mentioned above). The current reclamation system does NOT help the situation and just makes the world feel empty.

Plots are wiped as as fast as a single month withou subbing. If that isn't an argument to NOT bother if you don't have one already I don't know what is. It's also an argument to NOT bother returning once someone thinks of all the work ey may have lost (yes even novians are a loss)

I've never agreed with this policy and argue whenever it comes up for either time extension or something like I quoted above. It's just crazy. Towns that use to be full are now emepty and some of the 0players site the fact that everything where they lived is now gone (with having to rebuild either in a new plot or all over again in theh same plot in an empty town) sot hey have no motivation to come back and rebuild.

Back when Istarian plots were NEW (and at high demand) faster reclamation made a little sense (stil thought it was too fast) but now..no. I realize we dont have instanced housing, but the population does not justify the need to reclima plots so fast. If anything the empty masses of plots send out the bigger message to new players of "dead game" than if half were populated but by dead accounts...

:/

[Delite]

I do own a plot and got very lucky getting a fair sized one in Genevia, but I do have some thoughts on the plot problems:

• There are far too many plots that are below 60x60 in the settlements. If you put in just the 4 basic shops: smith, cloth, stone and scholar, there's not enough room left to build much more.

• Even if you're lucky enough to purchase a plot 80x80 or a bit larger, if you add any additional shops you really still don't have enough room to build very much storage whether silos or guildhouses.

• The number of large lots 100x100 or higher is extremely few and nearly impossible to obtain.

• Once you've reached journeyman construction skills, you need to have room enough to start building the bigger structures whether it's guildhouses, taverns, consigners, or pawnbrokers.

• There are currently too many guild areas with just the master plot owned that are just sitting idle. No one else can purchase a plot in that area, and there's no current way to determine which guild even owns the guild area.

Yes, many players start out with a small plot in a guild area, but once they've outgrown it and want/need to move on, there really isn't much to offer them.

[Finkledbody]

Well, not that you must have a plot in order to play, but I'm curious as to why so many plots remain for sale.

To those who have open plot slots:
1) Why haven't you purchased a plot yet?

I pay for two accounts, as do many in this game. 1 is a plot holders, 1 is a basic. My current plot is almost done, though upgrades will forever continue.

Why don't I upgrade the other for only the $5 extra a month? Well that would bring us to your second question...

To everyone:
2) Other than a free or discounted plot slot, what would it take to entice you to purchase a(nother) plot and start building it up?

Location, size, and the need for a port and pad nearby.

There are far to many plots that are just to small. I'm not suggesting that all the plots be 100x100. What I think would work out best is to have suggested plots for newbies, towns like parsinia that are close to t1 resources would be a good starting point for them. Sell the plots cheap, sub 500 silver and keep them all around 40x50-50x60.

Then have the rest towns have all the larger plots 70x70 and up. Also adding it so all towns have a pad and portal would help elimanate some of these towns that have ZERO population.

I personally feel Like I'm wasting my monthly sub plot on one that is a measly 82x67 which equates to a meer 5494sq meters. I really want to one that is more like 80x80 (6400sq. m) But there arn't any good locations left... To bad really.

[Dragonboy]

I have 3 gifted accounts and up untill about 2 or 3 months ago had 3 lairs, at this time I sold my 2 lairs in Drakul and bought a neighbouring lair in Dralk.

I am a player that generally plays 1 character to max get bored and leave... The fact that I am still here says something about this game.

The only reason I am here is my dragon, not my love for playing a biped and definitly not for what lightning claw already mentioned... The endless boring grind of lairshaping... Gathering for hours upon hours to collect thousands upon thousands of bars, orbs, bricks, azulyte crystals, ect from T1 all the way up to T6 and still feel at the end of the day you have accomplished nothing worthy to be proud of.

The crafting is a boring tedious grind and this is also part of the reason that currently I keep paying, but only play perhaps 2 months per year.

Don't expect me to build even more...

[Drevar]

After having built and moved and rebuilt entire guild towns a couple of times I can say that I have no real desire to do it again. I basically have the whole of the original Saritova on Order in the bank.

The rediculous size of some buildings with very little to offer besides one or two NPCS (taverns and pawn shops) makes designing on anything but a max sized plot a total pain. I have no issues with the material requirements, simply the footprints of cavernous structures with nothing in them.

Long ago it was said there were plans for more customizeable buildings. More like AC where you get a structures with "hooks" to place machines, NPC's, furniture, etc. I would much rather see a totally modular system where you can select individual floors, walls, roofs, etc. and make your own floorplan, but...yeah right.

[Dragonboy]

I wanted to place another post because I think that it might add to the info you are looking for.

1. Plots are in general very small is well known by all even the developers.
2. Plot reclamation should be "altered" into placing the plot on sale instead of clearing it completely.
3. Plots are way way way to expensive in some locations.

As an example for no.3:
Currently I own the lair underneath the Dralk Gemworking Trainer, love the view and the lava oastics. This lair cost me 1g900s (something in this range).
Next to this I had 2 lairs in the area close to Kir'Ignat portal on Drakul (700s each).
That brings the total purchase cost for 3 lairs (all 3 are sized 120*120*144) to 3g300s.

For RP reasons I wanted my Sslik to have a plot near Sslanis, the largest I could find were 60*60 I believe, but I bought a nice 50*50 with a lovely fisherman nearby... This cost me the rediculous amount of 3g500s...
For a plot the size of perhaps 30-50% of only 1 floor of 1 of my lairs.
In the end I sold it again due to inactivity on the plot (don't like playing biped) and bought the 2 Drakul lairs.

[Steelclaw]

Thanks to everyone who replied.

This thread is starting to die down, so I figure that now is a good time to close the loop.
(note: plot means a biped plot or a dragon lair)

Here's what I got so far:

Why haven't you purchased a plot yet?
- Lair construction is excessively time consuming.
- I can't find one with reasonable properties (price, proximity to portals, proximity to resources, nice surroundings, or size).
- I can't maintain a persistent subscription and don't want to risk losing all of my work.
- The permission system doesn't give me the granularity of control I want.

What would it take to entice you to buy a plot?
- Make the areas around plots nicer looking.
- Make plots bigger, or make structures smaller.
- Provide additional benefits to owning a plot (e.g. proximity to resources or portals)
- Make construction less time consuming.
- Allow finer-grained permissions.
- Make the reclaim system more forgiving.

Anything missing?


Also, Shian, you mentioned keeping a plot slot for juggling plots between characters. Can you elaborate on that a little more? Why would you need to juggle plot ownership between characters on the same account?

[Fratricide]

Also, Shian, you mentioned keeping a plot slot for juggling plots between characters. Can you elaborate on that a little more? Why would you need to juggle plot ownership between characters on the same account?

I'm sure it may have something to do with Novian resources... but I may be mistaken.

[Arragoth]

I resently bought myself a lair, but when i was looking for my wife too find a nice plot for her, i noticed alot of Ghost Thowns, where only one plot was developed, and mostly on the Guild Towns, where the guild plot was locked, and had structures, with the remaining plots utterly empty and undeveloped, while some really lie in sweetspots..

Many good settlement towns for single players have been taken, or are for new starting players relative expensive too buy, thus they have too take really some time/devotions too save up for the cash of the remaining free settlement plots..

Personally i think the whole guildplot system is working against the game in developing playerbuild towns, since a old player with alot of cash on his hand bought a guildplot, but have hardly any members further interrest or even has a guild too develop the guildtown, leaving alot of free plots open and make deserted towns just for the guildplot owner exclusive..

My guess this is one of the reasons alot of people dont/wont even bother furthermore too get themself a plot, and whats still available in settlements ar or expensive plots, or second rate plots, while everything else is occupied/locked..

its something i remember allready from the beginning when i player 7-8 years ago and reconed it would become a issue, and it seems due guildplots the issue has just only worsened due too those, and also with many players on free accounts i guess alot of players in Istaria are "homeless" and we have the fenomomen of empty deserted towns, wich imho makes alot of area's less appealing at least by looks, just flat undeveloped area's wich doesnt look that they ever get any development soon..

Also the nearly usefullness of plots cept beeing a timesink, make it less attractive too get a plot and develop it, since often they all funtion the same, with the same buildings on the plots developed, and hardly any other function..

Personally i would love too see more options for buildings, like NPC that would buy up player wanted items, for example a NPC that buys the rare items the owner needs for his crafts, and ofc billboards so people can see easely what that plot buys/sells.. Maybe give out quests and rewards even too do so for the owner, and adding some more fluff to make plots more diverse in looks.
Like bakeries, stores and such too spicen the looks op of towns..
But that would require new models again on wich i understand the devs dont have time/money/resources for too develop, but could be imho again solved by letting the community create their own buildings and offer them too the developers when they meet certain criteria so they can be placed into the game, wich would ofc make towns alot more diverse looking again like real towns..