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Thread: Masochistic Behavior/Speeches

  1. #1

    Default Masochistic Behavior/Speeches

    This is something that is really starting to grate on my nerves.

    I was considering putting this rant in the Istaria section, but you know, it really doesn't apply to JUST Istaria, it also applies to WoW, and FFXI, and probably every other MMORPG out there.

    People who act like Masochists... what is with this phenomenon anyways?

    You see it all the time: Some poorly designed area of the game (like RoP) exists for a good amount of time, and later on, a revamp is done, and it is "streamlined" or "tweaked" or whatever caused it to be "poorly" designed is tweaked to make it smoother, or maybe even slightly easier, and suddenly these ... _people_ ... pop up and say "OMG YOU'RE MAKING IT TOO EASY!!!!111oneoneone!"

    Istaria... just like WoW... just like FFXI...

    Are GAMES..

    They are meant to be FUN.

    They are not meant to force you into hair-pulling frustration. I get enough of that with my IRL job. When I come home from work, I want to sit down in front of my computer, relax and have some fun.

    But when you have a near-required questline like RoP in the game, where people are pretty much forced to do it to enjoy their race decision (face it, a dragon who can't fly might as well be a biped, as that is probably 80% of the reason you'd play a dragon, gold rage being the other 10% and maybe lairs being the rest), such questline should not be almost impossible except for super-elite players who devote every waking second to calculating the exact best ways to do everything and/or players who don't mind trying several dozen times to try and do something successfully, and/or players who don't mind trying to gather 10+ people to do something.

    SOME of us don't want that hair-pulling frustration. Okay, so some people enjoy pain, frustration, and hardship. There are ways to get that even with the new changes. Unequip all of your armor. Go in at Level 30. Try to fight everything between you and your destination. There -are- ways to get more challenge out of the new RoP. Don't punish the rest of us who just want to relax and have fun, please.

    Before Amon closed the thread in General, I made a comment that said, basically, this:

    "One should not feel like "OMG YES FINALLY" after completing something in a game"

    To which, was replied:

    "That's what makes a game feel EPIC".

    I feel that my statement was taken entirely wrong, so I'll rephrase that:

    "One should not feel like 'OMG FINALLY, NOW I DON'T HAVE TO DO THAT STUPID CRAP EVER AGAIN!" is more like the sensation I felt when I (err, well, the level 100+ bipeds) finally killed Lem, Kaa, and the Shadow Dragon and when the rest of it was easy solo stuff.

    The first thing that came through my mind?

    "OMG YES. Now I don't ever have to do THAT again. Thank God."

    It was VERY difficult to put together the peeps I needed to finish my RoP, and I would have preferred the ability to just solo the stupid thing myself, without having to rely on other people who may or may not be around and/or have time to do it.

    There are good people in the game, don't get me wrong, but it is that a lot of them are busy at times, or they have conflicting time schedules, and a lot of time they just plain aren't online when I am.

    Having the ability to solo very important, almost-required quests is a must. Leave the Group Questing to Endgame stuff, optional content.

    /rant

  2. #2

    Default Re: Masochistic Behavior/Speeches

    I partially agree with you Dhalin. However, I am not sure how much of it stems from masochistic tendencies and has far more to do with "I had to suffer through it, so they do too." For those few who enjoyed the toughness of the challenge, or had the fortune of friends who could escort them, I commend you. But don't force other people to go through a frustrating and needlessly difficult aspect. Don't force them to rely on other people for what should be a proof of their individual worthiness. And let them feel like they've accomplished something without making it a long and painful process.
    Ssilmath Torshak, Paladin of the Lost, Shaman of the Damned, Master Armorsmith

    My other "crack would be cheaper" hobby
    http://ssilmath.deviantart.com/

  3. #3

    Default Re: Masochistic Behavior/Speeches

    Quote Originally Posted by Ssilmath View Post
    I partially agree with you Dhalin. However, I am not sure how much of it stems from masochistic tendencies and has far more to do with "I had to suffer through it, so they do too." For those few who enjoyed the toughness of the challenge, or had the fortune of friends who could escort them, I commend you. But don't force other people to go through a frustrating and needlessly difficult aspect. Don't force them to rely on other people for what should be a proof of their individual worthiness. And let them feel like they've accomplished something without making it a long and painful process.
    I suppose the "I had to suffer through it, so do you too" is also a part of it.

    I had thought of that, a bit after I posted the rant, but I was like "meh, someone'll mention it surely" lol.

    I also see that argument a lot, especially on WoW's o-boards....

    "It invalidates my achievements when things are nerfed or made easier!"

    Errr. Okay, so if you had to jump through hoops to get a Shiny Sword of Doom +1, and then, a couple years later, it is nerfed so that anyone can solo and get their Shiny Sword of Doom +1, suddenly, that hurts the first player who did it?

    Not hardly, because there's a Shiny Sword of Doom +15 out now! It is 15 times more doomy!

    Now, with RoP....

    If a player wishes to go around and say "I became an adult before nerf!" well, fine. I don't care. Just don't use that as a prejudice and we'll be fine.

    I, however, will enjoy doing the new RoP on my new hatchling (which I likely would not have started if it weren't for the promises that they were re-balancing and re-doing it).

  4. #4

    Default Re: Masochistic Behavior/Speeches

    It all comes down to -

    Wether you feel your sense of accomplishment/specialness/fun comes from doing things in a video game that only the "best" else can do (and NO YOU CAN TDO IT EVER ONLY I CAN DO IT ITS MINE!!)

    Or wether you get that sense of accomplishment/specialness/fun regardless of the fact that yes, 325,000 other people have it too.

    I, like you apparently, are more the 2nd type - I don't care how many other people have done it or will do it too - I enjoy games and such because I have fun getting them (regardless of how easy or fun it was).

    But many gamers are more the first type - they want their specialness acknowledged, their grind-tolerance rewarded - and any hint that maybe someone will get what they "worked" so hard for without working as hard sends them into self-doubt and insecurities (?)or something....hence the fits.

    Me - I don't get a sense of accomplishment or specialness from any video game - so its not an issue for me. I get that stuff from "RL" and actual work..not game-play work .
    Frith-Rae BridgeSol
    Great Elder of Keir Chet K'Eilerten
    Iea has returned.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Masochistic Behavior/Speeches

    I like the changes with RoP- as I already said-it makes sense to me.

    But I HATE that the requirements for AroP have been lowered that dramatically.

    Not cause I`m typ I or typ II

    but because I think we have enough weak ancients around,
    who do not know how to fight certain mobs, how to skill a drag or prepare for a hunt- and who even do not know where to find what in Istaria.
    They often do not know about teched spells, or even if you offer to make scales which techs to use. Not talking that most of those I`m taking about can`t craft spells or scales themselves.
    Its no fo fun to play with that kind of ancients. And they are of no use in epic hunts.

    But what a joy if you see hatchies go the long and winding road-
    to grow up to mighty drags and gifted players.
    All my support to those.
    I`m very happy to have you with us
    *waves to 2 certain drags, she watched grow up*
    YOU told me to play a dragon! [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  6. #6

    Default Re: Masochistic Behavior/Speeches

    I thought that they changed the level requirements from 90 to 100 to start the AROP quest line.

    To me that isnt a lowering of the difficulty but a raising of the difficulty - simply because I cant start it and do it to help level myself to finish it..LOL.

    I cant speak to the mobs themselves or the skills required to finish it because Ive not done one yet . So dont know how it effects anything.
    Frith-Rae BridgeSol
    Great Elder of Keir Chet K'Eilerten
    Iea has returned.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Masochistic Behavior/Speeches

    Quote Originally Posted by Frith-Rae View Post
    I thought that they changed the level requirements from 90 to 100 to start the AROP quest line.

    To me that isnt a lowering of the difficulty but a raising of the difficulty - simply because I cant start it and do it to help level myself to finish it..LOL.

    I cant speak to the mobs themselves or the skills required to finish it because Ive not done one yet . So dont know how it effects anything.
    I totally agree with you Frith.

    Sorry I was not clear:
    I hate they made it level 100 to start AroP and I hate, that not all quests have to be played before starting.
    YOU told me to play a dragon! [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  8. #8

    Default Re: Masochistic Behavior/Speeches

    Quote Originally Posted by LOVWYRM View Post
    Sorry I was not clear:
    I hate they made it level 100 to start AroP and I hate, that not all quests have to be played before starting.

    [Players] who do not know how to fight certain mobs, how to skill a drag or prepare for a hunt- and who even do not know where to find what in Istaria.
    They often do not know about teched spells, or even if you offer to make scales which techs to use. Not talking that most of those I`m taking about can`t craft spells or scales themselves.
    Its no fo fun to play with that kind of ancients. And they are of no use in epic hunts.
    \
    Hate to break it to you, but even by having the skill requirements as per the old AROP, none of the things you describe above is affected by it.

    Whether a dragon has GR 5 or 8, it makes no difference if they do not know how to face a certain mob and use it's weaknesses.

    Spellpower has nothing to do with what spells you have scribed- it is personal choice alone to have them teched or not.

    Aside from upping the to-hit ratio by having said skills, they are utterly worthless if one does not know how to use them.

    This doesn't bring any more 'weak dragons' to the fold but it will certainly make the ones that are more visible. By that I mean, poor tactics will not succeed whether you have high or low stats.

    Why punish those that can fight by having to up skills they do not use?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  9. #9

    Default Re: Masochistic Behavior/Speeches

    but if you have to play ALL quests there are- you might learn about all that.
    You have to visit the different places. meet new mobs aso.
    You can`t ask for help with each quest, and have to find out yourself.

    Some folks now will only rush through the 3 questlines required- and we shall have the same effect we use to have with RoP: Hatching a drag through the rites.
    YOU told me to play a dragon! [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  10. #10

    Default Re: Masochistic Behavior/Speeches

    I'd have to say I agree with Lov here.

    The ARoP is the pinnacle of a dragon's maturity. An Ancient Dragon is supposed to be a dragon who has learned everything about being a dragon, a dragon who has mastered the dragon ways, a dragon who is well-learned.

    Missing training in several abilities just doesn't sound like that dragon to me. I'm all for making RoP more sensible, as it is mid-game and it gives dragons a very important race-defining feature (flying), but ARoP, which is completely optional (you can still enjoy playing a dragon without becoming an ancient), really should require all of the ability quests done.

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