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Thread: SWTOR: the death of sandboxes?

  1. #41
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    Default Re: SWTOR: the death of sandboxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fratricide View Post
    Personally, I liked SWG way better then SW:tOR. I would probably still be playing it, if it weren't for the fact that they screwed it all up when they changed the class system. They dumbed it down so much that virtually everyone had the same build, because you couldn't do much of anything else.
    This... I had my whole career plotted to in the end maybe even making it all the freaking way to jedi... According to the forum this was supposed to take 2-3 years of steady farming and playing. Pity I never made it past lvl 40... Oh well better at 40 then at max level only moments away from becoming a Jedi I guess.

    So far I think that from the few MMO's I have played SW:ToR is the most linear game I have played... It is even more freaking linear then SW:KOTOR I + II and those are single player RPG's. Even those started with 3 choices after you did the first planet / tutorial area (be it Taris or that mining station).

    From lvl 1 it is determined that as a Sith Warrior (my first character... lol) you start at Korriban (lvl 1-10), then go to Dromund Kaas (lvl 10-16), Balmorra (lvl 16-20), Nar Shadaa (lvl 20-24), Tatooine (lvl 24-28), Alderaan (lvl 28-32)... And that brings me at the destinations that I have been or am supposed to visit at lvl 26 according to my class quests... In theory I have a new planet to visit and completely drain from lore and quests every 4 levels all the way up to 50 I guess... After which it will probably be mothballed considering I dont feel like doing the high end Heroics every day for that one piece of gear that might make me 0.001% better then my opponent in PvP... Especially since I don't like PvP
    I think that this is going to make me bored very quickly... The planets are tiny compared to SWG. Sure it lacks the crafting machines till the horizon fields and that is a good thing, but I always liked to be on tatooine in SWG, dancers in the cantina dancing all day just for xp. Also being able to simple start your own player created town were ever you like as long as you and a few others would place the required buildings... Having the choice of every weapon in the game only depending on your skill I guess if it would hit more or do better damage. Not having to pay 40-50k ingame coin for the honor of having a mount and the skill you need to use it is also a big plus.
    Rvlion- LvL 100:100:100 - 59.3M - Lunus Ancient
    Gallinthus- LvL 100:42:41 - 6.9M - Hatchling
    Lohasbrand– LvL 4:3:0 – 1.0M - Hatchling
    Sslion- LvL 25 Mage, 25 Warrior, 10 Cleric, 6 Druid, 6 Monk and a few Craft Schools

  2. #42

    Default Re: SWTOR: the death of sandboxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chioxin View Post
    Which means you started late Romirez. You decided to wait until the game had paid for itself and went F2P, and that's fair enough honestly! I wonder if HZ even ever paid for itself... at all... It's been around long enough that it must have.

    Where are you getting your information that these games make their money back in the first few months of release? WoW? yes... WoW is a freaking mutant amongst most MMO's and I'll gladly admit they're greedy as hell [And yet make fantastic polished game I'm willing to pay for!] I'm appalled at what it takes to get into that game as a new player.

    SW:ToR? They're not going to make it back on Box Sales, and I'm curious if they'll even make it back on monthly fees. Heh, and projects I've been on... didn't make it back. There's a reason why there are lay offs and there are reasons a lot of new MMO developers die off. They didn't make back their money or are barely surviving on the community they did make.

    The crew these MMO's employ after that, need to get paid. The QA, the developers, coders, artist. We'd like to get paid thanks, and we already get paid "pennies" compared to what we're probably worth... and it may also be helping to fund the next game we make, the server structure and its upgrades/maintenance, maintaining the tools to add further content to the game, the bandwidth required to keep it running at a good clip for all the users.

    Developing an MMO is a HUGE resource hog [it shouldn't be, but it is.]

    You're right! We don't just build these games to break even and make people happy. We want to make money too, we want to keep our jobs, and we want to work on the next awesome project.
    i actually could not start playing in 2003/4, didn't have internet in my house at the time. could not afford it. so i started as early as i could, which was December 2005.

  3. #43

    Default Re: SWTOR: the death of sandboxes?

    Which means you started late Romirez. You decided to wait until the game had paid for itself and went F2P, and that's fair enough honestly! I wonder if HZ even ever paid for itself... at all... It's been around long enough that it must have.
    All I will say is David, the gnome ensured its profitability.
    Selkan Swiftbeer 18 Scout | 11 Outfitter Human - Chaos
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  4. #44

    Default Re: SWTOR: the death of sandboxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonboy View Post
    So far I think that from the few MMO's I have played SW:ToR is the most linear game I have played... It is even more freaking linear then SW:KOTOR I + II and those are single player RPG's. Even those started with 3 choices after you did the first planet / tutorial area (be it Taris or that mining station).

    From lvl 1 it is determined that as a Sith Warrior (my first character... lol) you start at Korriban (lvl 1-10), then go to Dromund Kaas (lvl 10-16), Balmorra (lvl 16-20), Nar Shadaa (lvl 20-24), Tatooine (lvl 24-28), Alderaan (lvl 28-32)... And that brings me at the destinations that I have been or am supposed to visit at lvl 26 according to my class quests... In theory I have a new planet to visit and completely drain from lore and quests every 4 levels all the way up to 50 I guess... After which it will probably be mothballed considering I dont feel like doing the high end Heroics every day for that one piece of gear that might make me 0.001% better then my opponent in PvP... Especially since I don't like PvP
    I think that this is going to make me bored very quickly... The planets are tiny compared to SWG. Sure it lacks the crafting machines till the horizon fields and that is a good thing, but I always liked to be on tatooine in SWG, dancers in the cantina dancing all day just for xp. Also being able to simple start your own player created town were ever you like as long as you and a few others would place the required buildings... Having the choice of every weapon in the game only depending on your skill I guess if it would hit more or do better damage. Not having to pay 40-50k ingame coin for the honor of having a mount and the skill you need to use it is also a big plus.
    As I told ya -

    Ain't nofin like SWG!

    And yea its the most linear MMO I've ever played as well. Which is why I said "More than even WoW" (which before Caty and after Caty at least gave you 2 options of each level zone - they learned from the Caty mistake and aren't doing that again LOL).

    And yes you are correct; every 3-4 levels or so you will be sent to a new planet.

    If you want to save up to have your mount by 25; don't do a lot of crafting that doesn't get you profit. Save your credits and don't go buying stuff off the GTN. After level 35 or so the money comes in easier and at end game people are rolling it in just from dailies and nothing to spend it on (so I've observed among those I know at end game -I am not).

    And no I'm not oin any rush to end game either as I already do end game in one game and don't partciular care to do it in two games; so I'm leveling completionist style and taking my time with the cut scenes and story element. I hate alts and alts in this game seem like itwoudl be even more boring than I find it normally - lol. So take your time; and if you are on an RP server like me - find some RPers to hang with at night and it keeps you going slow (I'm just now level 38 because most nights I'm RPing instead of leveling LOL).
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  5. #45
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    Default Re: SWTOR: the death of sandboxes?

    I planted myself on the most crowded server that the EU has to offer, but I still play a lot solo... Just like I did during my Istaria years, only now I decided it might be beneficial to join a guild... many players in the guild en 20-30 online most of the time, but I still play mostly solo and questions I need answered are faster replied to in General chat then in Guild chat. So no real benefits as of yet... lol
    I am currently at lvl 27 having "fun" killing loads of sand people (a deja vu with Kotor anyone?). I even get bonus experience for finishing bonus objectives like killing 40 sand people... totally weird... lol
    Rvlion- LvL 100:100:100 - 59.3M - Lunus Ancient
    Gallinthus- LvL 100:42:41 - 6.9M - Hatchling
    Lohasbrand– LvL 4:3:0 – 1.0M - Hatchling
    Sslion- LvL 25 Mage, 25 Warrior, 10 Cleric, 6 Druid, 6 Monk and a few Craft Schools

  6. #46

    Default Re: SWTOR: the death of sandboxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Romirez View Post
    that's the excuse people come up with trying to justify paying for a game twice. that's all it is. an excuse. game companies recoup losses on the first few months of Subscription fees. take 15 dollars times the amount of active accounts. boom, recouped losses.

    screw. that.

    i AM NOT double paying for a game. i absolutely refuse to. i shouldn't have to buy the game, and then have to PAY to play it. i can use more colorful words here, but i can't, so it has to stay like this. not double paying ever ever ever ever ever.
    You severly underestimate the cost that can go into developing a game, let alone an MMO (and a mainstream one at that). At the estimated $200 million that SWTOR cost to develop Bioware would need almost half of WoW's entire subscriber base at the moment of launch in order to cover the costs of development in "the first few months" just from subscription fees assuming $15 per month.
    Avatar is of my character Akrion, snipped from Hrae's Hoard of Creatures by the excellent moss loving artist Nambroth. <3

  7. #47

    Default Re: SWTOR: the death of sandboxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonboy View Post
    ...but I always liked to be on tatooine in SWG, dancers in the cantina dancing all day just for xp.
    Back in my day we danced because we loved dancing, we loved entertaining, we loved the interaction with our clients. Dancing just for xp didn't happen unless you were a hologrinder (and don't get me started on them!)

    I loved SWG but as I was a dancer and tailor, SW:TOR holds no appeal for me at all. I never played SWG because it was Star Wars, it could have been set in any other fantasy/sci-fi setting and I'd have played it. It was the professions and skill trees that grabbed me. When SoE screwed up the game and forced me to choose between tailor or dancer I knew my days there were numbered, especially when my friends and guildies left in droves.
    Obsessed crafter of Chaos.

  8. #48
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    Default Re: SWTOR: the death of sandboxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelsaka View Post
    Back in my day we danced because we loved dancing, we loved entertaining, we loved the interaction with our clients. Dancing just for xp didn't happen unless you were a hologrinder (and don't get me started on them!)

    I loved SWG but as I was a dancer and tailor, SW:TOR holds no appeal for me at all. I never played SWG because it was Star Wars, it could have been set in any other fantasy/sci-fi setting and I'd have played it. It was the professions and skill trees that grabbed me. When SoE screwed up the game and forced me to choose between tailor or dancer I knew my days there were numbered, especially when my friends and guildies left in droves.
    All I knew was that the dancers I would see in the morning would be there still several hours later and as well in the hours after that.
    The skill tree was the best I have seen in any game so far, you gain xp in what you use or do... The only game I have seen which used it was an old DOS or early windows RPG called stonekeep... But more games should use this.
    The only bad side would be that when you learn 1 skill you are forced to stay with that for a long time.
    Rvlion- LvL 100:100:100 - 59.3M - Lunus Ancient
    Gallinthus- LvL 100:42:41 - 6.9M - Hatchling
    Lohasbrand– LvL 4:3:0 – 1.0M - Hatchling
    Sslion- LvL 25 Mage, 25 Warrior, 10 Cleric, 6 Druid, 6 Monk and a few Craft Schools

  9. #49

    Default Re: SWTOR: the death of sandboxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonboy View Post
    All I knew was that the dancers I would see in the morning would be there still several hours later and as well in the hours after that.
    The skill tree was the best I have seen in any game so far, you gain xp in what you use or do... The only game I have seen which used it was an old DOS or early windows RPG called stonekeep... But more games should use this.
    The only bad side would be that when you learn 1 skill you are forced to stay with that for a long time.
    They were still there hours later because many weren't actively at their computers. I did Entertainer for a time to try it out and I simply setup a macro-script and then went to school/work.
    "Alea iacta est" -- Julius Caesar

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  10. #50

    Default Re: SWTOR: the death of sandboxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by AmonGwareth View Post
    They were still there hours later because many weren't actively at their computers. I did Entertainer for a time to try it out and I simply setup a macro-script and then went to school/work.
    Ya.. Ill have to agree with that one... I had an entertainer character that I had macro's set up for so that it would run solo while I was schooling it out. When I got home from school, I would play my other characters that actually required a bit of skill to perform.
    Elated that HZ is no longer in the hands of the Infidels.

    Now.. I may have to split my time between 2 games... CS:S and HZ...

  11. #51

    Default Re: SWTOR: the death of sandboxes?

    My dancing macro was so my fingers were free for chatting, but then I was a real entertainer and not a bot or hologrinder. And that's why I got the tips, thank yous and repeat customers
    Obsessed crafter of Chaos.

  12. #52
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    Default Re: SWTOR: the death of sandboxes?

    I indeed remembered the whole macro system...
    I had one set up which automaticaly selected and attacked nearby mobs.
    This worked up to the point... Untill the planet I was on was changed from a low level planet to lvl 40'ish and I was beaten down merciless while I myself was behind the controls... lol
    (I was actively trying to get enough status with the empire to get one of those walking robots :P)
    Rvlion- LvL 100:100:100 - 59.3M - Lunus Ancient
    Gallinthus- LvL 100:42:41 - 6.9M - Hatchling
    Lohasbrand– LvL 4:3:0 – 1.0M - Hatchling
    Sslion- LvL 25 Mage, 25 Warrior, 10 Cleric, 6 Druid, 6 Monk and a few Craft Schools

  13. #53

    Default Re: SWTOR: the death of sandboxes?

    Ya.. the AT-AT... had one of them... they worked nice when playing with the Krayt Dragons.
    Elated that HZ is no longer in the hands of the Infidels.

    Now.. I may have to split my time between 2 games... CS:S and HZ...

  14. #54

    Default Re: SWTOR: the death of sandboxes?

    Yeah.. I miss those. I pulled mine out on the last day and watched someone blow it up

    I've stopped playing SWTOR. It's a nice game, but it's very much a single player game.... so why pay the monthly fee?

  15. #55

    Default Re: SWTOR: the death of sandboxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shian View Post
    Yeah.. I miss those. I pulled mine out on the last day and watched someone blow it up

    I've stopped playing SWTOR. It's a nice game, but it's very much a single player game.... so why pay the monthly fee?
    that's my very point with this game. why double pay for a single player game?


    that's also why i didn't really like it when i beta tested it. it's a multi-player single player game. (MMOSPG? LOL.) Bioware makes good single games like the Mass Effect series, but it just cookie cutters when it's MMO, as example.

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