Selling & purchasing new plots

[Gimthen]

Currently if you wish to buy a plot, you have to be without plot. As such, for existing plot owners who wishes to move/upgrade, they are required to sell their own plot first. Obviously we all do the same thing first. Take everything out of storage, decon each building before selling the plot before we buy our new plot.

However, when you have done that and you go to your new plot to buy it and discover that although it was still for sale prior to you deconning and no not anymore, it is not just really frustrating, but heartbreaking.

Is it not possible to alter the plot buying rules in the following way:
- Existing plot owners who wishes to move/upgrade, can buy their new plot whilst having their existing plot. When they have bought their new plot a “timer” will start.

- The timer will run on their old plot – which will “decay” whilst the timer is running. The timer will be of a set amount of time (don`t see a need longer than 24 hours)

-The timer will allow the plot owner to empty his existing storage and decon/sell his old plot with no fear of losing the new one.
- The timer stops when the plot is sold.

- In the event that the timer ran out prior to the plot being sold again, then it is automatically “reclaimed” without notice to the community and put up for sale. (with the potential loss of items, novians, plot value).

With this change plot owners who are moving/upgrading, would not be left exposed in having deconned your plot, sold it back and then noticing that whilst you did this, the new plot was sold, leaving you without a plot and loss of resources due to the decon you did. This was something which a fellow player/friend unfortunately experienced.

[Bronwynne]

Personally, I think this is a very good suggestion! After all, not everyone has an additional plot-holder account that is able to handle such a transaction. Emptying, deconning, and selling an old plot takes time...and buying a new prime plot is a time sensitive endeavor! A player who experiences this type of fiasco loses not only 20% of their construction materials, but they lose 5% of the original purchase price of their plot, not to mention the investment of time they had put into planning and building the original plot! Frustration is an understatement!

[Bronwynne]

After thinking about this situation more, it seems that another possible alternative would be to have a way to "hold" a property with a deposit of a % of the total purchase price. Place a time limit to complete the full sale transaction (perhaps 12 or 24 hours). If the sale isn't complete within that time period, then the property becomes available to the public again. This would permit a player who only has one plot subscription to secure the new property and then safely decon & sell their previous plot without running the risk of everything going horribly awry.

[Ladydragon]

I think these are great ideas for lairs too. Yes please please please institute something like this!!!

[Dhalin]

Or, if that is too difficult to program with the engine and all, we could do something that would have the same benefits:

Allow us to "claim" a property.

To "claim" a property, you must pay 25% of the property's cost and once you do, you effectively "own" the property. However, you cannot build on it until you sell your current one.

If 24 hours passes once you "claimed" your new property, the property becomes un-claimed and available for purchase again. It would be optional whether or not you lose the 25% down payment or not. If you made them lose the payment, it'd make a player think twice about "claiming" or "reserving" a property, but yet if a player got disconnected / lost power / etc and couldn't log back in, being out that much money might be a little disheartening.

[Delite]

Yes a way to hold a new property while deconning and selling the old property would be great!

[Finkledbody]

I do and don't like this idea. Mostly don't. I agree that it sucks when you decon and sell a plot for a upgrade and you find out that it was taken in between.. It does suck, and it is disheartening.

But what would stop someone from seeing a 80x80 plot pop up, claim it for the 24 hours.. over and over again just to keep it tied up so someone else can't buy it?

What about someone claiming it over and over again for the day when they decide to pay for another plot sub? I know I would. Hell. I'm sitting on enough coin to pay a 25% fee time and time again, even if I lost all the coin everytime. I could tie up a nice plot 80x80 plot anywhere i wanted for a year or more just because. Coin is not needed in this game so there would be no effect on me.

Hell, I would pay for 3 plot subs, and than use this new feature to keep 3 plots locked up right beside my 3 so I own a small city. Just keep paying the 24 hour fee over and over...

Or what about someone seeing a nice plot for a guildie? They pay it, lock it up, wait for there friend to get on. Than sell it to them? This idea is really killing the first come, first serve basis.

For the hardcore gamers (there are many in this game) it would just make it harder for the noobs to get a good plot.

_______________

If a system like this were to work, you'd have to limit the timer to 2 hours. Pre-pay 100% of the plot cost, with a 50% tax to hold the plot. If you don't claim the new plot in time you lose all your coin.

This feature should also be limited to 1 per account, regardless of how many subs the player is paying for.

But even with these tweaks. I still don't like the idea. It should stay as a first come, first serve basis.

[Bronwynne]

I agree that the idea would require some tweaking & limitations. There should not be an option to "hold" a plot for more than one turn, otherwise unfair exploitation would most certainly take place. I, personally, see nothing wrong with having a shorter hold time duration (the 12-24 hour period was simply a suggestion). With the plot exchange I did recently, it only took me about an hour to safely stash my belongings & decon the old plot. I also agree with Fink's idea about limiting the "hold" to only one per account, to avoid another type of exploitation of a player with multiple alts purposely tieing up a prime plot.

However, I do not agree with the hold deposit being 100% of the plot purchase price. Many players have some of their available coin invested in their existing plot, and have to sell it to be able to afford the new plot. Perhaps a deposit of 25% would be more fair.

As another idea to prevent malicious "holding" of prime plots, a penalty fee of, say 10% of the deposit could be assessed if the player chooses to forfeit the "hold" and not purchase within the set time-frame.

[Tcei]

Alternativly not being able to put the plot on hold again for a week or so would also prevent someone from locking the plot down.

[Steelclaw]

I think we should stay away from a hold or claim model where the plot buyer has the ability to back out of a purchase. If you want to buy a plot, you buy it, and you're committed to that purchase, subject to the existing time constraints. That should keep the plot market fair and alleviate concerns about abuse.

Gimthen's idea sounds a lot more plausible in terms of fairness, so the discussion should focus on that pipeline model, or something else that doesn't allow the buyer to tie up a plot and wind up not purchasing it.

[Gimthen]

I think these are great ideas for lairs too. Yes please please please institute something like this!!!

sorry .. .being a biped I usually think of Plots, but obviosly the same would be for lairs.

Gimthen's idea sounds a lot more plausible in terms of fairness, so the discussion should focus on that pipeline model, or something else that doesn't allow the buyer to tie up a plot and wind up not purchasing it.

As steelclaw understood correctly, My thinking behind the suggestion was indeed not to "hold" a plot. Once you buy it, you get it and no one else.

It is to benefit those that wishes to move, where the risk of loss of money and resources is so good as gone. (by deconning and then discovering that the plot is sold under the current mechanism). It should not benefit anyone else.

The suggestion is not intended or should not be used for an ability where other players can "reserve" a plot for someone else. Hence why, I thought that if the exisitng plot of the owner is being targetted in being decaying/demolish, the owner is even more forced to carry out the swap within a (short) time frame.

In terms of time frame, it is my personal view that it should not be 12-24 hours. I am sure we all can store our stuff and decon a plot within a couple hours max? If the timeframe would be longer, you indeed open up to a more holding position, so the shorter the better - but still a realistic time.

[Finkledbody]

I still don't like the idea. I'm more for the: "First come, First serve basis." This really is the most fair way to do it.

I have moved plots a few times, and there has been one time where I deconstructed and sold my plot to find the one I wanted to move to already taken.. But I am still a firm believer in the first come first served.

Even with all the restrictions and everything being suggested. The way the system is now. Its the most fair.

[Steelclaw]

I still don't like the idea. I'm more for the: "First come, First serve basis." This really is the most fair way to do it.

Can you explain how Gimthen's suggestion is not "first come, first served"?

[Finkledbody]

Can you explain how Gimthen's suggestion is not "first come, first served"?

Its not because the one that would be reserving the plot, certainly got there first, but weren't in the position to buy it. Soooo.

First one with the slot available, and the coin on hand. Gets the plot.

Its like at most auctions. You buy the item, you pay for it on the spot. You take it with you. Plots shouldn't be on a lay-a-way system IMO. I'm sure the devs will agree with me I'd put my money on this system not being implemented into the game for many reasons....

[Dhalin]

Its not because the one that would be reserving the plot, certainly got there first, but weren't in the position to buy it. Soooo.

First one with the slot available, and the coin on hand. Gets the plot.

Its like at most auctions. You buy the item, you pay for it on the spot. You take it with you. Plots shouldn't be on a lay-a-way system IMO. I'm sure the devs will agree with me I'd put my money on this system not being implemented into the game for many reasons....

Yes, well, with Auctions you're not forced to sell what you already have.

Let's say, IRL, you went to an Auction and you wanted to buy something, BUT the law states that you are not permitted to own two of them, let's say, a car.

Right now, just like Istaria, you must sell your current car before you're permitted to buy another car. Let's say you shop around used car lots, and you see one you like. Let's say this used car lot won't buy your car for whatever reason.

So, you go around town trying to sell off your car and it takes you a few hours. Finally, you sell the car and you get a friend to take you back to the used car lot and....

The car is gone! Someone else bought it before you could!

Now you're sitting there with no car, and none of the other ones on the lot are good enough for you for whatever reason (bad condition, not the right kind of car, not a car in your price range, etc).

That's what's happening in Istaria with plots.

I think my idea is fair as long as we put restrictions on it. I think the down payment works nicely, plus a once-a-week restriction. You can only reserve a plot for 24 hours, but you have to pay a down payment AND you can only do it once a week (I assume the weekly maintenance would reset this system).

Or, Idea #2:

Make it so that when you buy a new plot, your old one is automatically sold, its money refunded and all structures on your old plot are instantly converted into Novians and dumped in your vault, along with any items in any of the storage facilities you had on your plot. Obviously there would be a giant warning message that says "ARE YOU SURE YOU WANT TO DO THIS!?".

That would get rid of the problem too, you wouldn't have to go back and manually decon all of your buildings, take the junk out of your storage buildings, etc.

[Steelclaw]

Its not because the one that would be reserving the plot.

The system described in the OP does not reserve a plot. The purchaser must initiate the process by the purchase of a new plot and must ditch their old plot (or it will be ditched for them ). Once the process is set into motion, there is no backing out, no finding a better plot and getting that one instead (without waiting 24h), no layaway nor down payment.

That being said, the system isn't perfect, and as described, allows a player, or colluding group of players to hold n+1 plots in perpetuity, where n is a number of plot slots, and n = ceil(24 / grace time), and grace time <= 24h.

I think that problem is solvable, or at least can be mitigated to the point that the cost:reward ratio approaches infinity.

[Gimthen]

Its not because the one that would be reserving the plot, certainly got there first, but weren't in the position to buy it. Soooo.

First one with the slot available, and the coin on hand. Gets the plot.

Think you misunderstand the suggestion.

You DO buy the new plot, not reserve it. Once done, no way back , hence the penalties have to be on the exisitng plot of the player/new owner. (and most likely a time frame to prevent a sell on as suggested by others)


Or - if in developing terms possible- Dhalin's idea no 2 is pretty easy too, as this would prevent any plot reserving whilst protecting a player from losses in the current system.

I'm more for the: "First come, First serve basis." This really is the most fair way to do it.

What's fair to having a player looking for a long time for a larger plot, finding one, then going to his own plot to store everything away and decon it so he can buy it (only 1 plot per account at any time!) only to discover that (in this example) a non plot holder walked by an decided to buy it?
He gets it becasue he has no "move" to carry out whilst the other player gets "punished" because his deconning took him too long and as such lost the new plot, 5% of his existing plot cost and 20% in resources.

Surely if it is first come first serve as you claim to prefer..... the player with the plot should get it as he was the first with the intention to buy? (and took all required actions to do so)






I will never say that the suggestion is perfect. (afterall, i have no idea about any implications or work required to implement such thing) However, I do believe that something is required to prevent a "misjustice" to happen whilst preventing plot reserving (and all the bad with that)

[Finkledbody]

Yes, well, with Auctions you're not forced to sell what you already have.

Let's say, IRL, you went to an Auction and you wanted to buy something, BUT the law states that you are not permitted to own two of them, let's say, a car.

Right now, just like Istaria, you must sell your current car before you're permitted to buy another car. Let's say you shop around used car lots, and you see one you like. Let's say this used car lot won't buy your car for whatever reason.

So, you go around town trying to sell off your car and it takes you a few hours. Finally, you sell the car and you get a friend to take you back to the used car lot and....

The car is gone! Someone else bought it before you could!

Now you're sitting there with no car, and none of the other ones on the lot are good enough for you for whatever reason (bad condition, not the right kind of car, not a car in your price range, etc).

That's what's happening in Istaria with plots.

I think my idea is fair as long as we put restrictions on it. I think the down payment works nicely, plus a once-a-week restriction. You can only reserve a plot for 24 hours, but you have to pay a down payment AND you can only do it once a week (I assume the weekly maintenance would reset this system).

Well put. But in the real world, there are no restrictions on the amount of cars bought. And if there were, I'm sure there would be a way to buy multi-permits to allow for more than one car Just like in Istaria where you can buy another 1 time plot sub to help with this transfer. $14.95 for 1 month and you can reserve your plot. It supports the game, the devs, the community, and future updates. This is alot more fair and practical. It also leaves the devs the next month to work on other things aside from trying to implement a system like this.

Or, Idea #2:

Make it so that when you buy a new plot, your old one is automatically sold, its money refunded and all structures on your old plot are instantly converted into Novians and dumped in your vault, along with any items in any of the storage facilities you had on your plot. Obviously there would be a giant warning message that says "ARE YOU SURE YOU WANT TO DO THIS!?".

That would get rid of the problem too, you wouldn't have to go back and manually decon all of your buildings, take the junk out of your storage buildings, etc.

24 hours is still to long.
Not enough money being considered up front.
You should lose all the items in your storage if your plot is cleared in this way.
You should lose more novians. Say 50%?
It should cost SIGNIFICANTLY more. Like triple the cost of a plot. 12 gold plot is now 36 gold. Can't afford it? To bad

Reserving anything in this game is just the wrong direction.

Whats next? "Oh I wanted to buy something on the connie but didn't have enough coin. So i went out hunting for coin and came back and it was GONE!!! Can we put a reserve on items in the connie?!?!?!?!"

lol. no

[awdz]

It seems to me a three hour window for a non-refundable deposit of half the plot purchase price would be reasonable. I also agree with Tcei's idea of not being able to put a plot on hold again for a week (as if buying a plot).

[Dhalin]

Well put. But in the real world, there are no restrictions on the amount of cars bought. And if there were, I'm sure there would be a way to buy multi-permits to allow for more than one car Just like in Istaria where you can buy another 1 time plot sub to help with this transfer. $14.95 for 1 month and you can reserve your plot. It supports the game, the devs, the community, and future updates. This is alot more fair and practical. It also leaves the devs the next month to work on other things aside from trying to implement a system like this.


24 hours is still to long.
Not enough money being considered up front.
You should lose all the items in your storage if your plot is cleared in this way.
You should lose more novians. Say 50%?
It should cost SIGNIFICANTLY more. Like triple the cost of a plot. 12 gold plot is now 36 gold. Can't afford it? To bad

Reserving anything in this game is just the wrong direction.

Whats next? "Oh I wanted to buy something on the connie but didn't have enough coin. So i went out hunting for coin and came back and it was GONE!!! Can we put a reserve on items in the connie?!?!?!?!"

lol. no

Er, my Idea #2 didn't involve reserving anything. Let me explain it again, in case you missed it:

Idea #2: If you own a current plot, you can walk up to a New Plot, buy it right now and you immediately convert your existing plot's structures to Novians, all items in storage on that plot are dumped in your vault, your old plot is sold and becomes available again and you buy the new plot all in one button click with a giant "Are you Sure!?" confirmation.

No reservations. You buy it on the spot.

The only difference? You don't have to go back and manually de-con everything on your plot and pull all that stuff out of storage structures; the system does it for you. This eliminates the "I saw a plot, but by the time I got my old stuff deconned, someone else took it" as you buy it immediately right there and then, and you sell your old one immediately right there and then.

No reservations with my Idea #2.

I'm not understanding why you think people should lose more novians, all of the stuff in storage, and have to pay triple (!?!?!?!) price to buy the new plot?

That's just ludicrous.