RoP

[Dhalin]

On another hand, such quests in a MMORPG aren't meant to be soloed easily. The basis of a MMORPG is to work together with other players in order to achieve such goals. RoP isn't just a quest to go and kill a few low-levelled mobs. If some really want to do it alone, then they should wait to get enough levels before trying. RoP can be finished at lvl 30+ with enough help. We should not forget Istaria is an online multiplayer game.
It is sad your girlfriend left the game... I remember I have had to wait several months before gathering enough people to go and kill Shaloth the queen, myself.

MMORPGs are usually about "Endgame" -- most grouping happens there, and for logical reason: The majority of the playerbase are max-level players.

Grouping there works fine, because since the majority of the playerbase is max-level, finding equal-leveled people is easy (well, easier than finding someone near your level earlier in the game).

When you have forced grouping mid-game like RoP (and the scads of group quests in other MMORPGs mid-game), trying to find people who will help you, or who need the same thing you do, is much more difficult.

A lot of people have to work full-time jobs, some people have to work two jobs. Very few people these days have time to waste, and they like to put their time to good use. Playing an MMORPG might not be the best use of one's time, but if that's what one enjoys, that's what one is going to do. However, time in-game is usually spent to the best (or at least they try to), and to go help some random stranger, usually takes some motivation.

If you need the same thing the random stranger does, hey that's cool! But how often is it going to happen that you're going to find several people your own level who need the same thing? Not often, especially if the content is either out-dated or mid-game like RoP. Back when RoP was first put in the game, everyone needed it. Fast-forward years later, there's a dragon here, a dragon there who need it. Nowhere near enough that they could band together and go out and do it, at least not at Level 50.

Thus, they need other people, people who don't need it. But with the Death Point system the way it is in Istaria, people aren't too quick to waste precious DPs unless they know that their attempt is going to work (or at least be reasonably confident they'll succeed) because it takes days, maybe weeks to shed off a dozen DPs in some failed attempts. Also, there needs to be a Reason to go help.

This community has a lot of nice, charitable people, but there are limits. I wouldn't expect any sane person who has a finite amount of time in the in-game (and on this world!) to spend hours for the sole benefit of a perfect stranger, and you certainly can't expect that in the communities of lots of other games, where people are a lot less charitable. That's the problem of trying to find high-level help; in other games they usually want ridiculous amounts of money (to them it might sound reasonable for their Time vs Reward, but to the poor lowbie, it might as well be a million bucks) for paid help.

This sort of thing never does a game any good. Grouping should stay at Endgame, several other MMORPGs out there have taught us this. Endgame is when everyone is max-level (or near it) and everyone has something to gain, and finding players your level who need the content is a lot easier. That's why grouping works so much better Endgame than it does early-to-mid game. So let's keep early-to-mid level progression solo/duo friendly (but yet ALLOW grouping if desired), and give us fun things to group up for once we reach max level.

It just works.... better.... that way.

And btw, the thing where I said "Allow Grouping" ... they really really need to fix monster aggro. Being 1-2 levels behind shouldn't force you into being Main Tank for everything. Did they fix that yet? I haven't seen anything in the patch notes, and I remember the #2 reason my GF left: Every time we went out, she was main tank because her dragon was 2 levels below mine. No amount of gold rages or silver strikes would keep mobs off her, and everything made a beeline straight to her and everything ignored me pretty much. Yet I was the melee dragon and she was trying to be a spellcaster dragon, lol.

[Northwind]

Well, I did the "old" ROP like one month before it was changed.
Have to say that it was fun, enjoyable and challenging - BUT, i took the helian path and i did it solo at lvl 67-68 and i had a feeling of accomplishment at the end of it.

If the change intended to allow hatchies to solo it at earlier levels (50-60) - well, it kind of failed.
Hatchlings in the early 30's are still asking adults to do the ROP for them.

[Dhalin]

If the change intended to allow hatchies to solo it at earlier levels (50-60) - well, it kind of failed.
Hatchlings in the early 30's are still asking adults to do the ROP for them.

Some of the more lazy players will. Heck, even in WoW, we'd get people asking for help with easily solo-able quests purely because people didn't know how to hit buttons in the right order. *Shrugs* Some people are just... like that. Some people are in the game purely for crafting or RP, they don't want to spend the time to become awesome warriors. I'm sure there's lots of reasons why they'd still want help. Maybe they get lots of lag or their computer can't handle the game well enough to do combat well, but yet they want their adult form for flying?

However, for other players, it is now more obtainable solo. I, for one, am looking forward to doing it solo on my hatchling when the time comes, and I am pleased to know that it is more reasonable to attempt.

And you're saying you solo'd the "old" Helian RoP? I'd love to know how you managed to stay alive long enough to fight Kaa/Lem while being surrounded by Level 90+ mobs. Sure, the guy in the WD could be gotten to by jumping and gliding down into the spiral, but Lunus had a One-Hit-Kill item they could use on the mob. Helians did not, and the guy had how much HP again?

So please forgive me if I find myself skeptical that you solo'd that before the RoP change, even at Level 70.

[Northwind]

Well, as I said - I actually did it - i started the rop at 67 and completed at 68. I did had teched/socketed lvl60 scales and teched primal health and breezes and also had the map pack.

Kaa was one of the hardest mobs, only Seliena was harder: i used the glide approach, i fought him a long battle as he had tons of health, but got lucky - no adds at all. IIRC during that fight my hitpoints never droped below 40-50%
Storm Shadow was easy - but i remember having a hard time finding him in the woods north of Heather.
Lem was so and so - although it was a race to kill him and i had to recall right after it cause one of the lvl 100+ mobs roaming nearby decided to join the fun and was sprinting towards me.
Enslavers on Draak were very tricky and got me the first death during the ROP.

Yeap, I did died several times.
As i said, first death was on Draak due to adds while fighting one of the enslavers, then I died 2-3 times more till I managed to kill the big Seliena.

All in all was a very nice experience and as you can see, I'm very proud of it.
Probably the best Dragon quest line, if i may say so, followed closely by Acid Breath quest line.

[Malaya]

I personally believe that the RoP shouldn't be minimized to soloable. The RoP as it used to be brought the community together. Players got together to help in one of the most important achievments in the game and they had lots of fun doing so. I believe that that spirit shouldn't be taken away. I agree that the RoP before might have been too difficult but making it soloable would making it loose one of the most amusing features of it. The fact that you had to work side bby side with others too achieve it. I think it would be better if it's difficulty was just reduced...not made soloable. This way RoPers wouldn't need a buttload of players to help (unless the player helping was experienced and then you only need 2-3) but the spirit of teamwork would still be there. I remember when I first went on an RoP just for the fun of it. I was a level 18 hatchling. I constantly saved the RoPing player's skin because all the mobs kept targetting me instead of him (good times) (yeah, I'm suicidal ingame). The feeling that I helped that hatchling in his RoP was SO GOOD. It would be ashame if it was lost. RoP is one of the few times where players can get together and achieve a twice in the game oppurtunity (the other is the ARoP).

As for moving the bosses. I think it was a bad idea. I have to say that the ND has been left out of the excitment of the game...but 4 RoP bosses? Now we have 4 RoP bosses in a region not so exciting and which takes 10-20 minutes to get there as the hatchling runs. A hatchling would have to run there 2 times atleast and would have to make other players run with him/her. Not to mention that it would be very annoying if the player died there and had to run all the way back and there would have to be 1-2 players waiting for him/her at the entrance of the Deadlands so that he doesn't get killed again. Seliena was perfectly fine in the WD where she was. It's exciting running to her since you are afraid that you will become an Aegies' chew toy any minute (same with the ED). Hatchlings had to run to her and then they had to suicidally jump into what I call "The Bottomless Pit of Slow and Painfull Death of Which you Cannot Escape". It was also easy to get to Lem (if you ignore that stomach bursting, headache causing run to Harro). ED is a wonderful experience for a hatchling since it's literaly a walking marshmellow there, AND, there are floating fuzzballs everywhere just dying to kill you. (what a delightful description. Don't you agree?). Lem The Mindlasher was also fine where he was. it was a challenge for the hatcling to find their way to get to him. It was also nice that you had to talk to that werewolf and then glide down to fight him.

All in all, I think that the RoP's difficulty level should be minimized abit as to not require many players to help, but not be soloable. Also the RoP bosses should removed from the ND and put back where they were, except for one so that the ND can start gaining it's way back into the game. (Kaa would be the best option I think to leave in the ND, we could even have a new fort built for him)

[AguaRush]

I personally believe that the RoP shouldn't be minimized to soloable. The RoP as it used to be brought the community together. Players got together to help in one of the most important achievments in the game and they had lots of fun doing so. I believe that that spirit shouldn't be taken away. I agree that the RoP before might have been too difficult but making it soloable would making it loose one of the most amusing features of it. The fact that you had to work side bby side with others too achieve it. I think it would be better if it's difficulty was just reduced...not made soloable. This way RoPers wouldn't need a buttload of players to help (unless the player helping was experienced and then you only need 2-3) but the spirit of teamwork would still be there. I remember when I first went on an RoP just for the fun of it. I was a level 18 hatchling. I constantly saved the RoPing player's skin because all the mobs kept targetting me instead of him (good times) (yeah, I'm suicidal ingame). The feeling that I helped that hatchling in his RoP was SO GOOD. It would be ashame if it was lost. RoP is one of the few times where players can get together and achieve a twice in the game oppurtunity (the other is the ARoP).

As for moving the bosses. I think it was a bad idea. I have to say that the ND has been left out of the excitment of the game...but 4 RoP bosses? Now we have 4 RoP bosses in a region not so exciting and which takes 10-20 minutes to get there as the hatchling runs. A hatchling would have to run there 2 times atleast and would have to make other players run with him/her. Not to mention that it would be very annoying if the player died there and had to run all the way back and there would have to be 1-2 players waiting for him/her at the entrance of the Deadlands so that he doesn't get killed again. Seliena was perfectly fine in the WD where she was. It's exciting running to her since you are afraid that you will become an Aegies' chew toy any minute (same with the ED). Hatchlings had to run to her and then they had to suicidally jump into what I call "The Bottomless Pit of Slow and Painfull Death of Which you Cannot Escape". It was also easy to get to Lem (if you ignore that stomach bursting, headache causing run to Harro). ED is a wonderful experience for a hatchling since it's literaly a walking marshmellow there, AND, there are floating fuzzballs everywhere just dying to kill you. (what a delightful description. Don't you agree?). Lem The Mindlasher was also fine where he was. it was a challenge for the hatcling to find their way to get to him. It was also nice that you had to talk to that werewolf and then glide down to fight him.

All in all, I think that the RoP's difficulty level should be minimized abit as to not require many players to help, but not be soloable. Also the RoP bosses should removed from the ND and put back where they were, except for one so that the ND can start gaining it's way back into the game. (Kaa would be the best option I think to leave in the ND, we could even have a new fort built for him)

Well said.

[Chioxin]

ROP causes so much hate =(

Isn't the current implementation "You can do it at 30, but you'll need to work to get the community behind you to help get it done! However, you can do it yourself if you're willing to wait until level 50 or so to do it!"

Isn't that sufficient enough for both groups?

I feel like I'm dancing around a fire after this line... just so you know...

I do not feel that the RoP requiring a group to help, is bringing the community together. You can actually see in the community that it has caused a division [On Order at least.] There are people who absolutely detest adults who have had their RoP handed to them, and then there is the group that LOVES to hand adulthood to hatchlings.

So as far as I see it, growling goes both ways. It's hurting the community and has caused a division.

Now... let's look at this from a different perspective...

As the hatchling... Is it /really/ that awesome to be lead by the nose and feel ineffective and stupidly useless for hours at a time to get your RoP done? Quite literally they should just do /follow because they can't do anything better. Or does it feel better if you can contribute and you don't have level 100/100/100's ROFL'stomping everything?

As the "High level community player." Is it really that exciting? The bosses are probably well below your challenge rating. The travel and fights are boring at best. I personally feel like the hatchling is bored as hell and unable to do anything and is literally watching a really long and boring cinematic of me... doing all their work for them.

The answer to the above heavily depends on how much you are ok with, and enjoy the "power leveling" mentality. To me, there is no "right or wrong" answer. It's all a matter of your person, and your personal desires.

In the end, I think they've made a good compromise. Players on both sides can play the way they prefer it.

[Malaya]

ROP causes so much hate =(

Isn't the current implementation "You can do it at 30, but you'll need to work to get the community behind you to help get it done! However, you can do it yourself if you're willing to wait until level 50 or so to do it!"

Isn't that sufficient enough for both groups?

I feel like I'm dancing around a fire after this line... just so you know...

I do not feel that the RoP requiring a group to help, is bringing the community together. You can actually see in the community that it has caused a division [On Order at least.] There are people who absolutely detest adults who have had their RoP handed to them, and then there is the group that LOVES to hand adulthood to hatchlings.

So as far as I see it, growling goes both ways. It's hurting the community and has caused a division.

Now... let's look at this from a different perspective...

As the hatchling... Is it /really/ that awesome to be lead by the nose and feel ineffective and stupidly useless for hours at a time to get your RoP done? Quite literally they should just do /follow because they can't do anything better. Or does it feel better if you can contribute and you don't have level 100/100/100's ROFL'stomping everything?

As the "High level community player." Is it really that exciting? The bosses are probably well below your challenge rating. The travel and fights are boring at best. I personally feel like the hatchling is bored as hell and unable to do anything and is literally watching a really long and boring cinematic of me... doing all their work for them.

The answer to the above heavily depends on how much you are ok with, and enjoy the "power leveling" mentality. To me, there is no "right or wrong" answer. It's all a matter of your person, and your personal desires.

In the end, I think they've made a good compromise. Players on both sides can play the way they prefer it.

I haven't noticed anything like that on Chaos. At the end of the day, it's not a matter of what everyone's personal feelings are. If the other player feels like asking for help you can't just tell him/her "do it on your own!". And the other way around, if a player feels like helping a hatchling you can't just tell him "sit on your eggs and let him/her do it on his/her own!". If this happens the game will fall apart. New players will leave as soon as they reach RoP time and slowly the game will fade. If someone feel like not helping someone RoP then they shouldn't help them (unless there's somebody pointing a gun at them telling them to help the hatchling). You shouldn't tell players how to play the game. In the same way, we might as well make all boses soloable along with the ARoP. Everybody is going to have a wonderful time killing everything on their own with no help and life will just continue. I personally couldn't care less if somebody had help during their RoP. It's a freakin game, let people play and level how they want to and you will play and level how you want to. There, now everyone's happy...

[Chioxin]

Like I said, I feel like I'm dancing around a fire...

Let me be REALLY REALLY CLEAR!!!

I personally, don't give a rear tail scale about how one completes it =) I've never been the kind of player that cares how someone else completes anything in a game.. it's about how I do it. My "Personal" view is that it takes as much effort to get people behind you and help you do it... as it does to go earn the levels and skill to do it yourself. And frankly, I like that it works that way currently!

However, it's still a division on Order at least, and there are definitely two pools! If a change were done to RoP to make it NOT solo-able.. you'd be angering those who WANT to do it themselves. If you make it so it's ONLY solable.. you'll anger those who want to group do it.

Thankfully, the way quest work... It doesn't matter currently! And you'll never really be able to make something in HZ a "Group Only" content thing unless it's as end game! ... Seeing as RoP is not an end game item, I don't see it happening.

ARoP is an entirely different basket where there are good reasons it should be solable or groupable. Sadly you can't have both. It is end game content. Making it require a group means [Gameplay and Game design wise] the person doing the quest won't feel utterly useless, they should be, and can contribute fairly compared to the group. RoP on the other hand, a level 30 hatchling will not contribute like a 100 adult/ancient rating infinity biped.

[No, I do not consider a quest you get at level 30, a "level 30 quest," if mobs you are required to kill are level 100... At that point, it is "end game" content for most.]

[Malaya]

Like I said, I feel like I'm dancing around a fire...

Let me be REALLY REALLY CLEAR!!!

I personally, don't give a rear tail scale about how one completes it =) I've never been the kind of player that cares how someone else completes anything in a game.. it's about how I do it. My "Personal" view is that it takes as much effort to get people behind you and help you do it... as it does to go earn the levels and skill to do it yourself. And frankly, I like that it works that way currently!

However, it's still a division on Order at least, and there are definitely two pools! If a change were done to RoP to make it NOT solo-able.. you'd be angering those who WANT to do it themselves. If you make it so it's ONLY solable.. you'll anger those who want to group do it.

Thankfully, the way quest work... It doesn't matter currently! And you'll never really be able to make something in HZ a "Group Only" content thing unless it's as end game! ... Seeing as RoP is not an end game item, I don't see it happening.

ARoP is an entirely different basket where there are good reasons it should be solable or groupable. Sadly you can't have both. It is end game content. Making it require a group means [Gameplay and Game design wise] the person doing the quest won't feel utterly useless, they should be, and can contribute fairly compared to the group. RoP on the other hand, a level 30 hatchling will not contribute like a 100 adult/ancient rating infinity biped.

[No, I do not consider a quest you get at level 30, a "level 30 quest," if mobs you are required to kill are level 100... At that point, it is "end game" content for most.]

You must've misunderstood me. I wasn't talking to you personally.

I think that those haters on order should get a back-bone and realize that this game hasn't been built to satisfy each person's personal views. You cannot expect a level 30-40 hatchling complete it's RoP on it's own. Personally, I had lot's of help during my RoP, bu the problem was, I looked at the mobs, I saw their levels/stregth and decided I needed help. By the way, I don't think that somebody that asks for help feels useless. He did it with his own free will. Some players can't sit and waste days and days and days leveling and practicing and then practicing again and then leveling abit more e.t.c. I for example had a limited time to play, I could only play during 2 months of the Summer and REALLY wanted to fly before my time was over. I must say, If I worked REALLY hard I could've done it. But I didn't, because I wanted to meet players, see places, help other players, have fun with my friends, cause trouble in NT. I wanted to ENJOY the game. Not become an "RoP soldier". If the game was to achieve everything on your own, personally I would've left the game as soon as I found out. Nobody is stopping anybody from soloing the RoP. All they have to do is level to say...level 80-100. I like helping other players, that's how I enjoy the game (apart from poking Reklar that is). If someone wants to ddo it on their own then...by all means, go right ahead. I won't stop him.

[Chioxin]

Well, was just being clear for all where I stood on it.

I never said someone "asking" for help feels useless because they have to ask for it, just that the content they are going through does make them effectively... useless... because they are of the wrong level to be doing that content. If that makes sense =) Then again! You might not feel useless! I on the other hand, would feel useless! And not be happy... and would rather quit than finish RoP for that. [And I did just that in WoW recently after being power leveled!] Players are fickle creatures.

That's why I said it's personal opinion.. and that I'm happy the RoP is the way it is. It's doable at low level if you want to and don't mind getting help. Or, you can do it later at a better level to manage it. [Granted, I don't think you are told you can do it later... so people coming from other games are going to be angry receiving a quest they can not do right away!]

The point is, it is your choice! =) [Which you're hitting on as well.]

Now! This is just adding to the discussion I'm not pointing at anyone. I'm just giving a designer point of view to the problem.

By Game Design:

A level 30 player is useless when going after bosses that are level 60. [or level 100!] Statistically useless, we aren't speaking on how said player might feel in this case. So as a designer, having a level 30 quest that is impossible for a level 30 player is terrible game design. In fact, the way games are designed now, this is a way bigger turn off that they receive a quest they CAN NOT do themselves. Players are inherently trained from other games that 'They can do it themselves.' [Does the quest inform you that you may need others? I don't know the new RoP, just the old.]

Now, we may say "Right! Well, a group of level 30's can do it!" Then, the design should encourage that. Can a group of level 30 hatchlings actually take on level 60 mobs? Perhaps!

Reality, due to the games inability to retain people, the case of there being a group of level 30 hatchlings to do that is very low compared to hatchlings that are doing things on their own. So it's wiser by design to make the quest doable by a single hatchling... if it's to stay a level 30 quest.

Now, the OP wants a quest that is not solo-able, but requires "interesting" content for the higher levels to do to lead hatchlings through. Ideally, and on pen and paper this is nice. Reality though, it's counter intuitive. You can't make content that is interesting to the level 100's that will also be interesting for the level 30's [At least, not in HZ tech, because lord knows how the agro system works! It seems extremely random and chaotic to me!!! And low levels seem to be a magnet to anything way higher level than them in a group!] At the same time, you can't make content interesting to a level 30 that includes level 100's... because the level 100's will just splat it.

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And, I'll stop here unless people are enjoying the thread! =)

[Malaya]

Well, was just being clear for all where I stood on it.

I never said someone "asking" for help feels useless because they have to ask for it, just that the content they are going through does make them effectively... useless... because they are of the wrong level to be doing that content. If that makes sense =) Then again! You might not feel useless! I on the other hand, would feel useless! And not be happy... and would rather quit than finish RoP for that. [And I did just that in WoW recently after being power leveled!] Players are fickle creatures.

That's why I said it's personal opinion.. and that I'm happy the RoP is the way it is. It's doable at low level if you want to and don't mind getting help. Or, you can do it later at a better level to manage it. [Granted, I don't think you are told you can do it later... so people coming from other games are going to be angry receiving a quest they can not do right away!]

The point is, it is your choice! =) [Which you're hitting on as well.]

Now! This is just adding to the discussion I'm not pointing at anyone. I'm just giving a designer point of view to the problem.

By Game Design:

A level 30 player is useless when going after bosses that are level 60. [or level 100!] Statistically useless, we aren't speaking on how said player might feel in this case. So as a designer, having a level 30 quest that is impossible for a level 30 player is terrible game design. In fact, the way games are designed now, this is a way bigger turn off that they receive a quest they CAN NOT do themselves. Players are inherently trained from other games that 'They can do it themselves.' [Does the quest inform you that you may need others? I don't know the new RoP, just the old.]

Now, we may say "Right! Well, a group of level 30's can do it!" Then, the design should encourage that. Can a group of level 30 hatchlings actually take on level 60 mobs? Perhaps!

Reality, due to the games inability to retain people, the case of there being a group of level 30 hatchlings to do that is very low compared to hatchlings that are doing things on their own. So it's wiser by design to make the quest doable by a single hatchling... if it's to stay a level 30 quest.

Now, the OP wants a quest that is not solo-able, but requires "interesting" content for the higher levels to do to lead hatchlings through. Ideally, and on pen and paper this is nice. Reality though, it's counter intuitive. You can't make content that is interesting to the level 100's that will also be interesting for the level 30's [At least, not in HZ tech, because lord knows how the agro system works! It seems extremely random and chaotic to me!!! And low levels seem to be a magnet to anything way higher level than them in a group!] At the same time, you can't make content interesting to a level 30 that includes level 100's... because the level 100's will just splat it.

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And, I'll stop here unless people are enjoying the thread! =)

Well, decreasing it to level 50 doable makes it loose it's importance. RoP is an AWESOME event in a dragon's life and it is meant to be very hard. However even if it is left like that I think it would be best if all the bosses apart from Kaa were removed from the ND and put back to their original places. If they are all kept there RoP will just get tiring and anoying. Running to the ND once is annoying enough. Imagine how anoying it will get if you have to run there 2-3 times...and now imagine how angry the player will get if he dies and has to run back. People are just going to get tired of RoP.

[Chioxin]

Can you rephrase what your issue is then? As I'm really confused if you think decreasing RoP difficulty to level 50 makes it lose it's importance, but you support that level 100's blast level 30 Hatchlings through the RoP... effectively making it "too easy" in my opinion for the hatchling. I'm not being mean, I'm honestly asking you =) I'm confused as to who you think the RoP should be attuned too.

As for the distance thing, that's a design flaw and I agree. Though I guess I'd die once or twice and say "I need more levels!" and then go do that... and try again later once they are obtained. Or... go ask a friend.

[Malaya]

Can you rephrase what your issue is then? As I'm really confused if you think decreasing RoP difficulty to level 50 makes it lose it's importance, but you support that level 100's blast level 30 Hatchlings through the RoP... effectively making it "too easy" in my opinion for the hatchling. I'm not being mean, I'm honestly asking you =) I'm confused as to who you think the RoP should be attuned too.

As for the distance thing, that's a design flaw and I agree. Though I guess I'd die once or twice and say "I need more levels!" and then go do that... and try again later once they are obtained. Or... go ask a friend.

No harm done It's often that I don't express my thoughts in a way that others understand

What I was saying is that I suppose it would be fine if the difficulty of the bosses was reduced but weren't reduced so much as to be level 50 doable. It just seems to loose it's importance (my opinion) as a very important event.
Well I suppose we could leave Kaa at the ND but not 4 RoP bosses. It would just get tiring if you had to run there over and over again. One boss is enough. 2 at the most.

[Dragonboy]

To be honest I have not read the whole thread, but I did want to respond and give my 2c...

I think that some parts of the old RoP was getting outdated... Lem among level 120 abominations... That was just plain weird...
However most of the RoP was still cool and good, gliding had made Kaa a whole lot easier... Which was by far the most difficult to reach (but still easy to do with 1 Hatchling and 1 Ancient). Visiting Draak at level 30 was easy to do even before RoP change... Mind you only if you have the courage to walk alone instead of having a full batallion of ancients running with you (and making the mobs spawn before you arive due to them flying ahead of you all the time. On my alt I ran from Harro to Draak multiple times without encountering a single threat, while I was doing the original Draak attunement quest at barely lvl 30 back then... I did the Aughundel to Harro run at lvl 18 (which was easy) and Aughundel to Morning Light at 12 (which was indeed a challenge due to the ogres spawning faster then the other mobs.

A lot of changes had already been made to make RoP easier... Take the Shadow Dragon... It went from being a true anti-biped mob into a freaking puppy dog when his 2 or 3 instant death abilities were removed... pathetic... That was trully the worst change that could have been made...
However if Lem is trully relocated that is a really good thing. Only I had rather hoped to see relevant quest NPC's kept scattered like they were, while the hostile RoP mobs would all be on Draak instead of scatering them on Trandalar were I with both Rvlion and with Galinthus hardly ever travel.

I guess this change has good and bad sides... A good thing is that the Hatchlings do not have to receive all on a silver plate... A bad thing is that since I did RoP with Rvlion it has been gradually made easier one way or the other... But I still have to do Helian RoP with Gallinthus so in time I will discover if it is fun or not...

[Chioxin]

Hehe, alright. I understand Malaya, I just don't fully agree =) Except for the run distance thing of course! =) That I'm definitely behind.

[AguaRush]

Hehe, alright. I understand Malaya, I just don't fully agree =) Except for the run distance thing of course! =) That I'm definitely behind.

You see some of the new things i liked were Kaa being in his spiral, the glide was a challenge and i thought it gave older players a purpose to be involved with the "younger generation of new players" I can not tell you how many times before gliding was possible that i pulled Kaa for hatchlings and then later i would land on the roots in the middle and tell the hatchling to guide right to me then we would jump down. I guess I personally liked the challenge it presented and i do understand that players shouldn't feel frustrated to the point of "rage quitting" about the ROP
but i feel like when they finish they should breath a sigh of relief and i think that makes the finish all the more better and have worth to it.

I agree with the movement of *scratches her head* oh shoot.. whats his name.. ah yes! Esh the mind lasher, being out past those wolves was tricky to get to but then again I also lead countless hatchlings there.

Personally for me for a while i was known by many as the RoP leader *snorts* I lead 1 to 3 a week it felt like and i LOVED it. I felt so much more involved.
for me now its hard to find "purpose" in game.. and while i do know hatchlings STILL need help as there are those who still want to complete the ROP at level 30. (which i am fine with helping IF the hatchling is grateful for help and says thank you and LISTENS to directions)

in the past i have found that is not the case... but i digress
you have read my post at the beginning and know my harps and wines about it. which is not going to change a thing.

< Just an ancient trying to find purpose in the world :P

[Frith-Rae]

Heh, for me RoP "felt important" not because the mobs were level 30, 50, or 100. Not because it required 10 people to help you or wether or not you could solo it.

What makes the ROP important is the STORY of the QUEST. It is the TRANSFORMATION of your hatchling into an adut - a game mechanic unrivaled in MMORPGS to date - where your entire character grows up and shapeshifts into an adult dragon. The EPIC of the quest had nothing to do with the level of t he mobs and everytyhing to do with the STORY of your character and the ability to FLY at the end of it (and gain Khutit form).

Level 50 mobs making it soloable making it unimportant? I don't think that is what makes this quest line so controversial or such a heated topic.

The QUEST itself is EPIC - wether you have to run all over the entire land or go to one place twice for 3 level 50 mobs. At the end YOUR ENTIRE BEING CHANGES. And that is what makes it a big deal.

[Vaz]

I'm ropping an alt and finding that the new dialogues were not proofread. It distracts from the story.

[Dhalin]

I'm ropping an alt and finding that the new dialogues were not proofread. It distracts from the story.

Don't forget to send those bug reports in!

Aside from that, I agree with Frith here. A loooooong quest to pursue a huge, permanent change in your character has very little to do with hard numbers.

When I think back to my own RoP, I remember the hair-pulling frustration of trying to find Bipeds that would help me (you know, because Ancients had a ridiculous cooldown on their one and only Rez and the fact that Dragons at the time did NOT have Primal Health, their only heal was a 5min cooldown), and how much it seemed so silly for a Lunus to need Bipeds for their RoP... lol. I still laugh at that to this day.

THAT's the kind of memories I have from my RoP and I think it sours what RoP should have been.

I can't wait to do my new hatchling's RoP -- I'm hoping that it will be more about me finding my way to adulthood, and not Level 90+ bipeds and dragons doing it for me.

Maybe then, I can remember RoP for its intended epicness, not for how many times I was tempted to rip my own hair out in frustration every time I had to make the walk to Draak, or every time I spent 2 hours+ looking for helpers, or having to swallow my pride when I had to have bipeds helping me.

Maybe after my hatchling's RoP, I'll look back on RoP and say "that was fun" instead of "Thank God that's over with." or "Thank God I don't have to do THAT again".