Training Points - Remove the Buy Back Point system

[Vortura]

It makes changing and tweaking an adventure school a very long and drawn out process.
Sometimes you even want the changes because you've switched from solo to group hunting.

Is there any reason why this system is needed?

For a total pool of 1200 TPs, you get a max of 300 BBP you can use at any one time.

Not sure how long it takes to build the stock of BBPs up again, but we're talking about a week to make a complete TP re-allocation... if you make daily adjustments as your BBP stock builds back up.

Possible choices could be:

Pay a trainer for those BBP to come back (like visiting the TP trainers that used to be in the gatehouse in Tazoon)
Increase the rate BBP accumulate
Get rid of the BBP system altogether and allocate TPs as you like, when you like.

[Terao]

Would be great!

[Peylor]

Would be great!

im with you here i just re-did some points and it didnt work out so well now i have to wait 2 weeks or what ever it is

[starlight]

Curious the need for constantly switching Tp around on the fly persay i myself have not had any trouble with my current setup.
600 points in evasion and currently testing out using a 50/50 of the remaining 600 points in magic evasion and shield skill. Being able to change TP on the fly doesn't seem to make much sense to me, i don't really have a comment on paying other than depending on the cost might leave players new to the game or the casual player that does not have much coin on them an may run into the problem of can not change their points due to no coin to afford it

[Sslarn]

Curious the need for constantly switching Tp around on the fly persay i myself have not had any trouble with my current setup.
600 points in evasion and currently testing out using a 50/50 of the remaining 600 points in magic evasion and shield skill. Being able to change TP on the fly doesn't seem to make much sense to me, i don't really have a comment on paying other than depending on the cost might leave players new to the game or the casual player that does not have much coin on them an may run into the problem of can not change their points due to no coin to afford it

As Mage as my main currently, I feel I can enlighten you as to why.
I may be in Mahagra fighting Ice golems and have alot of my training points in flame (for obvious reasons). These golems are in the lvl 55 range.
Now I have begun to level enough it is time to move on.
So I head to Dralk to fight small flame beetles in the level 60 range. Now, I want my training points in Ice. I would love to change them as flame does me no good here.
And this all can happen in a very short time, switching types of mobs. Would be nice if the point allocation would be too.
Hopefully my example makes sense and maybe gives you a different spin on the 'ol thought process.

[Dhalin]

I can understand why they give you a limited number of BBP, to prevent you from switching your training points out in the field, but yet I agree with the OP: The current method is too restrictive and it makes players wary of spending their Training Points, or at least it does me.

I'll open the training point screen and I'm like "um... okay what do I put this in?" and I'll be afraid of making the wrong choices.

If I wind up spending all of them and they're in the wrong place sometime down the road, I get to look forward to waiting several days while I reassign them.

Instead, why not place an NPC in the major towns that will allow you to erase all of your Training Points for a small fee, perhaps 1 silver per highest school level? That way, you couldn't do this out in the field (you'd still have the BBP system for making small adjustments out in the field), but yet you're not forced to spend days, weeks, however long it takes to reassign your training points.

[Finkledbody]

I see absolutely no need for this change. the current system is fair, and works GREAT for me.. In fact, I would go as far as to say its a PERFECT system that does not need any tweaking what so ever..

This suggestion is not shared by many at all.

Please don't make any changes here!

This is one of those rare times where a little emotion has been pulled out of me. I would potentially rage quit if the system strayed from its current path.

[Akrion]

I see absolutely no need for this change. the current system is fair, and works GREAT for me.. In fact, I would go as far as to say its a PERFECT system that does not need any tweaking what so ever..

This suggestion is not shared by many at all.

Please don't make any changes here!

This is one of those rare times where a little emotion has been pulled out of me. I would potentially rage quit if the system strayed from its current path.

If I make my font large enough, perhaps my opinion will count for more! >.> Maybe you should elaborate on why such a change would negatively affect you; it might make for a more compelling argument than size 7 font and threatening the devs with the "I'll quit" card.

In response to the OP though, I don't see there being much harm in reducing or removing arbitrary reskill delay.

[Northwind]

@Finckle: /ragequit :P

Regarding the sugestion itself, i'm against making it something that the player should pay for.
A reduction in timer would be nice tho.

[Ramaj]

We have multiclassing in adventuring and in crafting. We get training points to allocate to skills and/or stats of our own choice and, with the buy back points, even the possibility to re-allocate training points.
Imho it should not be possible to instantly re-allocate more than the current amount of buy-back points to instantly be "top of the class of every class" every time you change to another class.
To me it's more a matter of making choices, you can change your mind and make different choices and "re-build" your skills/stats to better match your current choice of class, but that just should take some time to accomplish and should not be "an instant change".

In short: the current way the training points system works seems to me just fine and should not be changed. But that's just my thoughts on the subject

[Chasing]

Leave the current system as it is.

(Can't be bothered to give reasons why)

[Shian]

Get rid of the BBP system altogether and allocate TPs as you like, when you like.

So cheating to the max, huh? How about no.
Seeing as combat and crafting are both heavily dependent on TP, there is a subtle grace about being able to balance out your TP so that you don't totally suck at one or the other.
Being able to change them at will is like putting an "I win" button in the game because you can instantly become very good at anything you choose: who needs spellcraft when you are working on stone at this very moment and can max out your skill by pumping every little TP in strength? Who needs combat skills when you are crafting and vice versa?

I enjoy the current system- it is currently very easy to do minor tweaks if you make a mistake, but difficult enough so that if you want to change your layout entirely, you have to wait a little while.

[Akrion]

Perhaps instead of a complete removal of the timer it would make more sense to at least increase the buyback point cap. In my opinion theres no reason that someone who waits long enough should'nt be able to remap all their points in one go. I havn't remapped Akrion for 2 years but despite that I can only make a remap equivilant to about 2 weeks worth of waiting, for example. Your waiting shouldn't have to start the moment you want to remap.

[Hellenia]

i say lave it as is its fine the way it is now .. waiting a few day or soo for buyback points isent going to kill u :P "don't fug with some thing that ant broke :P " that one thing i like about this game u are not stuck with the points u put in and u don't have to pay out the ..butt .. to change your sp points ..

[Peylor]

I see absolutely no need for this change. the current system is fair, and works GREAT for me.. In fact, I would go as far as to say its a PERFECT system that does not need any tweaking what so ever..

This suggestion is not shared by many at all.

Please don't make any changes here!

This is one of those rare times where a little emotion has been pulled out of me. I would potentially rage quit if the system strayed from its current path.

its not that big of a deal people dont want to have to wait so long Jezzz. I like the idea adding to the max buyback at one time deal.

[Vortura]

Glad the system works so well for the people who rarely adjust their TPs or who log in regularly enough to make the current system work better for them.

If I only get to log in on a weekend, I can change about 1/4 of my points each time. Therefore to re-adjust my TPs completely, it will take almost a month. For someone who logs often enough to keep up with the BBP replenishing, it will take less time. Perfect?

I would prefer to make one "wish" change and let the system re-allocate those points to meet my "wish" over a set period of real time. Even if it meant the TP re-adjustment happened at the same rate as the BBP currently accumulate, I would be much happier.

At present, I feel punished with the current system for not being able to log in enough.

[awdz]

I'm horrible about remembering to use training points. When I do, it would be nice if I could swap all of them around how I see fit. I do not think this should be a "remember to buff with training points" thing before every hunt, but after months of doing nothing with them, it seems like the limit should have worn off.

[Dhalin]

We have multiclassing in adventuring and in crafting. We get training points to allocate to skills and/or stats of our own choice and, with the buy back points, even the possibility to re-allocate training points.
Imho it should not be possible to instantly re-allocate more than the current amount of buy-back points to instantly be "top of the class of every class" every time you change to another class.
To me it's more a matter of making choices, you can change your mind and make different choices and "re-build" your skills/stats to better match your current choice of class, but that just should take some time to accomplish and should not be "an instant change".

See, the problem with this type of thinking is that with Multi-classing, you need to be able to change your TP a little more often than you currently can.

For example, let's say I'm your average working guy who works 9-5 Mon-Fri. I'm not, but let's theorize here.

Let's say that I'm also your average family guy who's got other duties at home and that the majority of my playtime happens on Sat and Sun.

Let's also say that I enjoy two different classes on my biped -- let's say that's a melee heavy healer, oh, say, Cleric with some things like Warrior, or Druid or something like that thrown in.

Then, let's say that my second class that I enjoy is something like a ranged attack user.

Now, let's say that I commonly like to play one class on Sat and the other on Sun. For the Ranged Attack-type, I reckon I'd probably have TPs in things like Bow, I dunno what else does a ranged attacker take TPs in? Dex? Either way, let's say the next day I wanted to play my Mage. I know Bow won't be much of any use, nor would Dex. I'd probably want some type of Elemental, Focus, Power, etc.

Then, what happens if I were to play my mage first, and my ranged attacker second? Those points in Elemental Magic and I assume Focus/Power would be fairly useless as a bow-user, right? I'd have to wait how long again to fully reassign my TP?

Now, someone mentioned above increasing the BBP cap so that you could reassign your full TP stock instead of a little here and a little there, okay, that's better than nothing...

But I still think that we ought to have some system where you either pay or quest or whatever to get a full reassignment of your TP -- something that forces you to return to a major town so that you cannot do it in the field.

TPs are actually somewhat important, and going out with a measly bit of TPs in skills that you are actually using makes life quite a bit harder and punishing a player for trying to get the most out of his character in whatever he's trying to do is a very poor design model. Nobody likes having to wait several days to do something different because of the TP system. I can understand not being able to re-assign all TPs on-the-fly, sure. But to never be able to fully reassign your TP without waiting several RL days? What MMORPG does that kind of thing these days?

Most MMORPG devs realize that people have RLs and reasons why they do not want to wait days to change their character over, especially in a game that is built around players choosing (and changing their minds!) what their character is. It is kinda silly to force a player to wait IRL days every time they choose to make use the game's featured ability to change your character's "class" (school).

That's one of the things Istaria's famous for, right? "Nearly infinite choices"? Too bad you have to wait several IRL days should you make a mistake, or want to change your mind.....

Also the current system highly punishes experimentation too. Nobody likes to experiment when they gotta wait several days to undo what they did. Personally I hate spending TP and testing things out when I know I gotta wait so long to regain my BBP. If I should do something that makes my character ineffective in combat, I'd hate to think that I'd have to stop playing the game for several days before I can "fix" my character. But what if I make another mistake because the game doesn't really give you much clue as to WHAT to spend your TP in? Oh, there's another few days I gotta wait.

Might as well not even bother at that point.....

[Akrion]

TPs are actually somewhat important

Important to an extent in any case. At least from my own experience. xD I'm positive I've said this elsewhere but I havn't noticed any measurable difference with Akrion's spirit magic damage, heal, or accuracy between having 1100 points in spirit magic and having just shy of 2000 points in spirit magic. If there is a difference it's very small (though I didn't test this with a huge sample size).

[Ming]

In the five or six years I've been playing, I think I changed my TPs twice. Maybe that's why I die all the time, but still, I like the challenge of making a decision and having it stick. If you choose a skill, commit yourself to it. So, I say, leave it as it is.

Cixi
Gnome Extraordinaire
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