Wisp Motherlodes and a Helian Incentive

[Aedre]

Well.. Wisp ML seems fairly straightforward. The Enriched wisps are the equivalent of rich nodes, I believe?

As for Helians... And, sort of, Lunus as well.

(First: I do realize that there are still -a few- players who honestly enjoy leveling craft, and I also realize that guildies helping gather is not a rare occurence, even for those players - my problem is with the hatchlings who laze their way to, through, and after RoP.)

So many hatchies today are taking as many shortcuts as possible. Hatchlings eat crystals till lvl20 and then have older guildies gather them slate for hours on end, and by the time they hit level 30, they still barely know how to make a brick and scales. Arcane refusal? Never heard of it!

Recently I have had a few hatchies in -absolute shock- wondering why in Drulkar's name they'd never heard of it before...Because they won't listen! To anyone! Unless what they're hearing is "Yes, I will gather you slate to get you to lvl30DCRA."

Simple solution? Raise the crafting requirements. Or, at least, cement them - lvl30 (35 please? 40?!) is the absolute minimum. None of this "Oh, I will get to lvl40 ADV and then use T3 scales and a T6 machine to get my skill high enough." (with someone else plvling me to 40 and someone else making me the scales after gathering the comps themselves.)

Make the Helian and Lunus craft requirements equal, so that hatchies will seriously consider both classes. At this point, Helians are practically comic jokes when talking about RoP to a new hatchling. "More crafting? Really? Grand idea!"



As the real Helian incentive, though, I recently thought of something that would make it worthwhile. The devs eventually plan on breaking the lvl100 cap, if I heard right? Well - why shouldn't Helians be the ones to do it? With craft. Even without the lvl101 up, all that is needed is perhaps a scale to boost the attributes - a special, attuned, worthless-as-hoard (unhoardable) head scale. Claims to improve eyesight or whatnot. Maybe even a full set of scales - one scale for each material being worked?

Start it as a quest, so all current Helians must still work for it. Perhaps require a set of fully-teched Essence shaping, stone cutting, smelting, etc. scales (or require them as quest items to be turned in, like the RoP scales ) along with _freaking insane amount of this material that needs to be processed_ and then the quest giver will focus it all into a single scale. That scale will boost the attribute enough to make the wearer efficient at T6 crafting. Helians only.

At least...for now? They might decide to share eventually.

[Shian]

I should hope the level cap isn't going to be raised and this is just a rumor-mongering. SWG decided to raise the level cap, but didn't bother to raise the level cap or difficulty of the enemies for like, three months.

Currently Istaria is balanced as it is. As much as an increased level cap would be fun, if the entire board of enemies are not also re-balanced, the game gets not fun really quickly.

As for Helian, it's not just the higher crafting requirements, Helians have a TON more walking to do. Also, being a spellcaster in Istaria is kind of a joke, so nothing is really going for those poor Helians other than, "Well I've done 4 Lunus, I guess I'll do a Helian for the Challenge". Much like owning and playing a 100/100 hatchie for the challenge...

[Aedre]

I'd hope that an increase in level cap would also accompany an appropriate change in monsters as well. I won't deny it could easily be rumor mongering; I know I picked it up somewhere, but as for remembering where.... Clueless!

D8 I should do Helian RoP instead of Lunus on my next hatchie.

Do they have fun walking still? Not that cruel joke of going between Acul and Aroah's Leap? I had so much fun leading hatchies through all the dangerous places. o.o

It's one thing to learn the smart paths and sneak your way past lvl100s.
It's another to bore yourself to tears taking the ocean path to Aroah's through relatively on-level mobs.

Again, another thing to squeal and get killed by a lvl100 (or likewise escape!) versus get killed by a group of on-level mobs that like to stun, freeze, and leech HP.

[Shian]

No, it's more like climb up a mountain by zigzagging around the mountain, go back down the mountain, get one item, climb up the mountain, have to go back to the Helian leader. Back up the mountain. Back down the mountain, kill a mob, go back up the mountain.

It could have changed, but considering that these are very key NPCs that depend on their location for the lore, I doubt it.

[Aedre]

=/ That Tower of Magery dude was changed to Megian...

XD Sounds funny.

Alright... I've gotta head to sleep... will check back tomorrow to see if anyone wants to add to my list of quickly-shot-down suggestions. :P

[Sigi]

=/ That Tower of Magery dude was changed to Megian...

XD Sounds funny.

Alright... I've gotta head to sleep... will check back tomorrow to see if anyone wants to add to my list of quickly-shot-down suggestions. :P

I like your idea
Why not? Hard core conservative dragons could always stay the way they are . Perhaps with their own emblem.

[AguaRush]

i really like the idea of cementing the crafting level cap for the rop. least make it set in stone. not level 30 with scales. not level 30 with a machine.. make it like clear. and it would be nice if it was even with helian. heck lets just settle for level 40 :P

*whistles innocently* i mean level 40 would it really kill ya? you could still power level to that if its ur wish. *shrugs*

and wisp mother loads yes!

[Tcei]

I'm really don't see that big of a deal with making it a hard cap for the crafting portion, tho I do support keeping it relatively low, or doing something about the mindnumbingness of the grind to gather resources. I'm not saying necessarily do away with the grind just find away to.. mask it?

I honestly cant blame players for wanting to be pl'd thru crafting. Heck Lantua's the only char I've ever managed to get to 100/100. All my adult alts were pl'd by him and get all their gear thru him.

IMHO there should be a certain challenge (and dying of boredom doesn't count as a challenge :P ). When grinding adventure there's always that risk of dying, something to keep you on your toes and engaged with the game. With crafting? Turn up volume, start on a node, then tab out or go do housework, cooking, ect. Grab another node when the crunching sound stops, repeat until full, then head to a silo to unload and start over. There's absolutely nothing to keep me engaged in the game until I've filled a silo or three and can do the actual crafting part of crafting.

I'd love to see some sort of mini-game or crafting related quest that gave out some exp, kinda like trophy (or is it town marshal? Been a while since I played.) quest. Either of these would help make the crafting feel less grindy, maybe even encourage more folks to level crafting.

[Sorisha]

not level 30 with scales. not level 30 with a machine.. make it like clear. and it would be nice if it was even with helian. heck lets just settle for level 40 :P

*whistles innocently* i mean level 40 would it really kill ya? you could still power level to that if its ur wish. *shrugs*

and wisp mother loads yes!

This. Exactly. Should be 40 craft required for RoP, for both factions.

Wisps mother loads would be pretty awesome. But in my opinion: Hatchlings > Wisps priority wise. Really sick of the adults who don't even know how to craft a simple spell because they leveled off crystals then spoon-feed the last 10 levels off their buddies.

Edit: Also, I love the level 30 craft hatchlings in Market Place who whine and cry until someone crafts them the crafting scales needed to proceed... Would be awesome to see an end to that. :P

[awdz]

This. Exactly. Should be 40 craft required for RoP, for both factions.

Wisps mother loads would be pretty awesome. But in my opinion: Hatchlings > Wisps priority wise. Really sick of the adults who don't even know how to craft a simple spell because they leveled off crystals then spoon-feed the last 10 levels off their buddies.

Edit: Also, I love the level 30 craft hatchlings in Market Place who whine and cry until someone crafts them the crafting scales needed to proceed... Would be awesome to see an end to that. :P

*shrugs* It seems to me like one RoP should focus on crafting and one on battle, so that dragons have a choice of which emphasis they want to follow for getting to fly. Lunus vs. Helian lore does not translate exactly into those game mechanics but I always kind of thought the intent for the game mechanic was there.

I do not think it necessary to impose higher crafting on the Lunus RoP and honestly I think it would make more sense to make the adventure/crafting requirements for Helian RoP be the reverse of what they are for Lunus RoP. However, I could easily see 40/10 level requirements - or even 50/0. Why not let hatchlings begin the appropriate type of RoP when they have a total of 50 character levels between adventure and crafting (not lairshaping)?

[Merrik]

Well.. Wisp ML seems fairly straightforward. The Enriched wisps are the equivalent of rich nodes, I believe?

.

If only this were actually true. enriched wisps do not seem to have any more to give than normal wisps

[Northwind]

indeed, i didnt noticed any difference between normal and enriched wisps

[LOVWYRM]

I am with Aqua and Sorisha here.

And I stopped supporting non-craft dragons.
Can`t hear the whining anymore either.

Crafting is half of a dragon in my eyes- if you cant craft your spells and scales- your prob- not mine.

[Tcei]

I am with Aqua and Sorisha here.

And I stopped supporting non-craft dragons.
Can`t hear the whining anymore either.

Crafting is half of a dragon in my eyes- if you cant craft your spells and scales- your prob- not mine.

Are you including those dragons who have already completed rop and want/need upgrades, but don't want to lvl craft?

If so, that seems...a little harsh. While crafting is a big element in the game, not everyone enjoys it (myself included), why should they be more or less punished for that? Don't get me wrong you're not obligated to help everyone who asks, and you have the right to refuse to help anyone for any reason. Im just curious as to why you feel that way.

Also, if Im merely misinterpreting what you are saying and you mean those hatchling who are doing RoP and want you to do all the crafting for it. Then I can totally understand.

[Daulnay]

To fix the Helians' comparative power problem, we need to fix Dragon spellcasting. Dragons'' single-target spells aren't effective enough compared to Dragon melee. They shouldn't be, because they're ranged. Many of Dragons' other spells are AoE. In both cases, the problem isn't really the spells themselves.

Dragon spellcasting needs crowd control spells. Similar biped spell classes work better, because they control the flow of battle with stuns, roots, or slows. Dragons don't have that, so pure spellcasting Dragons get overwhelmed too easily. Add a spell or a tech that gives Dragon spellcasters some crowd control, and pure Dragon spellcasters will survive much better.

The other problem with Helians, the focus on crafting for their RoP, looks more complex. Crafting is a grind, and no one likes grinding. Tcei has a good point, it should challenge the player, and boredom gives no a real challenge. The devs would have to add quite a lot to the game to fix the crafting grind generally.

Can anyone come up with a way to make crafting more interesting and challenging, at least up to the RoP level? Would anyone do a series of quests, using unique, otherwise-useless recipes that essentially turn crafting into a scavenger hunt until level 30? Could we turn the crafting grind into an exploration challenge that way?

Unfortunately, the Internet turns any fixed scavenger hunt into a series of delivery runs pretty quickly, and the real challenge disappears. Has any game really fixed this? Could the devs easily do the same in Istaria?

[Daulnay]

Been thinking about this more, and a timed scavenger hunt might work well, if some of the required items must be mined and quarried. Designed well, a hatchie will either need 1) a high DCRA level or 2) a lot of different scale sets (mining, quarrying, smelting, running, etc) or 3) something in between.

--
Daulnay
Thorn Moonskimmer, Order
Tamlis Askerety, Order

[Morinare_Blackclaw]

Much of this, it seems to me, is also the style of play, or, the way one "plays" his/her dragon. When it comes to the RoP, I think too many read it as a "right" of passage, rather than a Rite....and, too many are in a major hurry to get to it and through it. I wanted to fly every bit as much as the next hatchie, but, to me, it just seemed like the "right" to attempt the Rite was something that needed to be earned. Since I planned on following the Helian path, I already knew I'd need a very high (from a hatchie's view) Spell-Crafting score, so, I just added my own, personal goal to that: before I attempted the RoP, I had to earn the final Tempered Scale, at ADV50, *and* have my Crafting level just as high....50/50. This not only meant that I'd have a much better chance of surviving most of the RoP, but, it also meant that I had more than enough to do so I never became bored with the craft grind.

I'm NOT advocating this as a change to the game...but, I *have* suggested it to every single hatchling who's asked my advice, along with my reasons (mostly RP) for doing it that way....to my mind (admittedly addled), this ties things together nicely: the 3 Tempered Scales act as major stepping stones leading directly to the RoP, and the hatchling has proven to his/her elders that he/she deserves to join them as an adult.

[Meredas]

Rather than start a new topic, I'll add my suggestions to this thread.

Helians are scholars, Lunus are warriors. Why not change the level requirements accordingly? How about we increase the adv requirement for Lunus so that it matches the higher craft requirement for Helian? Perhaps once a hopeful Lunus chooses their side they are instructed by Valkoth to train hard before they are again worthy to continue their quest to adulthood, maybe redirecting hatchlings to dragon trainers for their ability quests. From my experience, those quests can carry players right through to the level 80's through combined exp and trophy gain, so this isn't too taxing to the SERIOUS (see: non-begging) player.

I had initially thought of a 30/40 requirement for Helian and a 40/30 for Lunus, as bare minimum (that is, if cemented levels were in place, though of course there's no issue in adjusting those.) I myself needed 42 craft (with scales) before I was able to create my necessary items, though I hear you no longer need to be at the desk in WD to do so, and can use a machine. Perhaps if the desk became a requirement again, it will make this level 40 craft requirement for the Helian faction easier to implement.

These suggestions would make the 'cementing' process possible at the very least.

As a Helian, I find the faction playstyles to be poorly balanced. I had previously suggested to a certain pizza lord on Market () to introduce new dragon spell techs, as all AoE's at t5 can only have two techs: Primal Damage and a percentage type bonus. Has there been any progress with this? I would throw a lot of fast food at anyone who can bring me a stun tech for AoE's!

[AguaRush]

Rather than start a new topic, I'll add my suggestions to this thread.

Helians are scholars, Lunus are warriors. Why not change the level requirements accordingly? How about we increase the adv requirement for Lunus so that it matches the higher craft requirement for Helian? Perhaps once a hopeful Lunus chooses their side they are instructed by Valkoth to train hard before they are again worthy to continue their quest to adulthood, maybe redirecting hatchlings to dragon trainers for their ability quests. From my experience, those quests can carry players right through to the level 80's through combined exp and trophy gain, so this isn't too taxing to the SERIOUS (see: non-begging) player.

I had initially thought of a 30/40 requirement for Helian and a 40/30 for Lunus, as bare minimum (that is, if cemented levels were in place, though of course there's no issue in adjusting those.) I myself needed 42 craft (with scales) before I was able to create my necessary items, though I hear you no longer need to be at the desk in WD to do so, and can use a machine. Perhaps if the desk became a requirement again, it will make this level 40 craft requirement for the Helian faction easier to implement.

These suggestions would make the 'cementing' process possible at the very least.

As a Helian, I find the faction playstyles to be poorly balanced. I had previously suggested to a certain pizza lord on Market () to introduce new dragon spell techs, as all AoE's at t5 can only have two techs: Primal Damage and a percentage type bonus. Has there been any progress with this? I would throw a lot of fast food at anyone who can bring me a stun tech for AoE's!

I rather like that idea. but i whole heartedly agree with the spells.
dragons who are desiring to be spell casters need more powerful spells
Agua is helian but I'm all malee damage. because lets face it
there is not a spell as powerful as gold rage, or even as some other basic attacks.
*grins* please give me a Primal Rage spell (let it cost horde) and let it be like gold rage.

give us a reason to use primal techs.

[AmonGwareth]

Do a quick search regarding Dragon changes/revamps and you will see the inherent problems. i.e. no significant changes can (or will) be made to Dragons without changing them entirely to be more balanced.