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Thread: Spell / Effect Conflicts

  1. #1

    Default Spell / Effect Conflicts

    Looking for additional feedback for something that originated in this thread (http://community.istaria.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=26378). Basically, wondering what other spell / effect conflicts you may find to be of concern. Can't promise they'll be changed, but would like player feedback on specific ones that might be of issue.

    Just to be sure that they aren't mentioned, this is part of the next patch (Delta 225):
    Malady no longer conflicts with other Blight DoTs, such as Withered State.
    Soul Link, Ethereal Paroxysm, and Ethereal Leech will no longer conflict with Spirit DoTs, such as Stinger.
    "Alea iacta est" -- Julius Caesar

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Spell / Effect Conflicts

    energize is deleted when demon flurry activates (procs). I say deleted because it isn't disabled or put in stasis while the demon flurry effect is on, it has to be recast each time.

    This is something I've always wondered about:
    Certain enhance stat spells conflict with others. I'm not sure this was ever meant to be "by design" but it would be nice if we could have more than two on at the same time. especially considering the gifts do not conflict with each other.

    The gamit of healing over time spells and auras are a maze I won't try to step into. but someone that knows which conflict with the others might be able to shed some light on that mess.

    Aura of the boar won't work if someone has dragon-cast vitality already.
    Mensarian state of mind: Being without one completely!

  3. #3

    Default Re: Spell / Effect Conflicts

    Quote Originally Posted by Mensar View Post
    energize is deleted when demon flurry activates (procs). I say deleted because it isn't disabled or put in stasis while the demon flurry effect is on, it has to be recast each time.
    Energize is properly keyworded as a haste. Demon Flurry, however, is a multiple attack but keyworded as a haste. Probably cause the creator wasn't sure what else to classify it as. Ranged and Melee Flurry have the same problem, being classified as a haste.

    This is something I've always wondered about:
    Certain enhance stat spells conflict with others. I'm not sure this was ever meant to be "by design" but it would be nice if we could have more than two on at the same time. especially considering the gifts do not conflict with each other.
    This was actually done on purpose. The way it is setup is that you can boost a Physical, Magical and Defensive stat at the same time, but not two of the same kind. Gifts are treated differently because they require a Gift slot and you aren't given five of them all at once, but earn them as you gain levels.

    Aura of the boar won't work if someone has dragon-cast vitality already.
    Aura of the Boar? Are you talking about Boar's Rage?
    "Alea iacta est" -- Julius Caesar

    Toot shouted, voice shrill, "In the name of the Pizza Lord! Charge!" (Jim Butcher's Dresden Files)

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will spends it whole life believing that it is stupid." -- Albert Einstein

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Spell / Effect Conflicts

    I still don't understand why epic spells such as Drulkar's Wrath are linked to abilities like Shield of Gold. Shield of Gold is an ability and Drulkar's Wrath is a spell... why are they grouped as such? I can't remember the reason given the while ago when this was implemented. This linking actually makes me not use the spell because I want my defensive ability up for when i'd need it most.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Spell / Effect Conflicts

    Quote Originally Posted by AmonGwareth View Post
    Energize is properly keyworded as a haste. Demon Flurry, however, is a multiple attack but keyworded as a haste. Probably cause the creator wasn't sure what else to classify it as. Ranged and Melee Flurry have the same problem, being classified as a haste.



    This was actually done on purpose. The way it is setup is that you can boost a Physical, Magical and Defensive stat at the same time, but not two of the same kind. Gifts are treated differently because they require a Gift slot and you aren't given five of them all at once, but earn them as you gain levels.



    Aura of the Boar? Are you talking about Boar's Rage?
    Maybe it's aura of the bear. Druid aura.

    Any chance you can fix energize and flurry to work together or at least make it so we don't have to activate energize all the time? Maybe make it passive?
    Mensarian state of mind: Being without one completely!

  6. #6

    Default Re: Spell / Effect Conflicts

    Quote Originally Posted by Mensar View Post
    Any chance you can fix energize and flurry to work together or at least make it so we don't have to activate energize all the time? Maybe make it passive?
    Yes, planning on making the flurries not conflict with hastes. But won't be making a haste passive. Not a chance. :)
    "Alea iacta est" -- Julius Caesar

    Toot shouted, voice shrill, "In the name of the Pizza Lord! Charge!" (Jim Butcher's Dresden Files)

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will spends it whole life believing that it is stupid." -- Albert Einstein

  7. #7

    Default Re: Spell / Effect Conflicts

    Ooooooo!

    One of my biggest peeves is Fortify V conflicting with Enhance Armor V and Raise Armor V. It completely overwrites it. I think it would make more sense if Enhance Armor or any armor spell for that matter overwrote the tiered version of Fortify. Fortify is only a 15 second buff.

    Annnd if you could explain the damage type hierarchy that would be nice. As it stands Flame Attack wont overwrite Lightning Arrows III but Flame Attack IV will????

  8. #8

    Default Re: Spell / Effect Conflicts

    Quote Originally Posted by Racktor View Post
    I still don't understand why epic spells such as Drulkar's Wrath are linked to abilities like Shield of Gold. Shield of Gold is an ability and Drulkar's Wrath is a spell... why are they grouped as such? I can't remember the reason given the while ago when this was implemented. This linking actually makes me not use the spell because I want my defensive ability up for when i'd need it most.
    I doubt there is a reason. Only to make it a bit harder for the mighty dragons.

    Though I agree to your logic- I can live with that.
    A linked GS makes fights a bit more a challenge,-)
    YOU told me to play a dragon! [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  9. #9

    Default Re: Spell / Effect Conflicts

    Maybe it's aura of the bear. Druid aura.
    Ah, that was it. Aura of the Bear and Promote Vitality both boost strength, that is why they conflict.

    One of my biggest peeves is Fortify V conflicting with Enhance Armor V and Raise Armor V. It completely overwrites it. I think it would make more sense if Enhance Armor or any armor spell for that matter overwrote the tiered version of Fortify. Fortify is only a 15 second buff.
    Whether an effect overwrites another is based on the level of the spell or ability, not on the duration or power of it since that is subjective.

    Annnd if you could explain the damage type hierarchy that would be nice. As it stands Flame Attack wont overwrite Lightning Arrows III but Flame Attack IV will????
    I assume you meant Flame Arrows, not Lightning Arrows. They had a keyword conflict which shouldn't have been and in addition all three versions had the same weight. Instead of II and III having a greater weight based upon the level they were received at they had the same as I. Will fix this for the next update.
    "Alea iacta est" -- Julius Caesar

    Toot shouted, voice shrill, "In the name of the Pizza Lord! Charge!" (Jim Butcher's Dresden Files)

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will spends it whole life believing that it is stupid." -- Albert Einstein

  10. #10

    Default Re: Spell / Effect Conflicts

    The chocolet spider, when consumed by dragons, is overwritten when buffed with Promote Vitality. Given the Spider only buffs for 50-150 str with a small blight buff, I feel these should stack! Otherwise, whats the point of these things? The vitality blows it away! hehe

    Just a little drunk dwarven bi-ped wreaking havoc in chaos.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Spell / Effect Conflicts

    Quote Originally Posted by AmonGwareth View Post
    Whether an effect overwrites another is based on the level of the spell or ability, not on the duration or power of it since that is subjective.
    Aha, that explains one of these. Ignore Mysticism, Countercheck Primal, and Arcane Refusal (the three dragon Ward buffs): If the spells are all the same tier, Countercheck Primal overwrites Ignore Mysticism but cannot be overwritten by it. Arcane Refuse overwrites both of those, and can be overwritten by neither. This is awkward mostly because if you cast the "wrong" ward for whatever your current purpose is, you may have to manually remove the buff from yourself or wait 15 minutes, which is ungainly in the heat of the moment. It's REALLY annoying if the wrong buff goes up on another player, because they'll often not realize and there's no way for you to get it off of them without verbal reminders.

    Or, short version: Thickle headdesks during Rift runs when someone insists on casting Arcane Refusal right before we fight things throwing out Spirit damage, and then there's no way to fix it besides waiting 15 minutes and/or making the run grind to a halt to discuss what wards we should be applying, at which point Thickle wants to die because buff-juggling was already tedious enough.

    Or, shortest version: Thickle wishes the three wards of the same tier could overwrite each other and/or that they were all the same level and strength instead of being staggered out awkwardly and having strange overwriting issues.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Spell / Effect Conflicts

    Quote Originally Posted by AmonGwareth View Post

    I assume you meant Flame Arrows, not Lightning Arrows. They had a keyword conflict which shouldn't have been and in addition all three versions had the same weight. Instead of II and III having a greater weight based upon the level they were received at they had the same as I. Will fix this for the next update.
    Sorry I meant that while having Lightning Arrows III active Flame Attack V when cast will not change the damage type from nature to flame but Flame Attack IV will change the damage type to flame.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Spell / Effect Conflicts

    Quote Originally Posted by Thicklesip View Post
    Aha, that explains one of these. Ignore Mysticism, Countercheck Primal, and Arcane Refusal (the three dragon Ward buffs): If the spells are all the same tier, Countercheck Primal overwrites Ignore Mysticism but cannot be overwritten by it. Arcane Refuse overwrites both of those, and can be overwritten by neither. This is awkward mostly because if you cast the "wrong" ward for whatever your current purpose is, you may have to manually remove the buff from yourself or wait 15 minutes, which is ungainly in the heat of the moment. It's REALLY annoying if the wrong buff goes up on another player, because they'll often not realize and there's no way for you to get it off of them without verbal reminders.

    Or, short version: Thickle headdesks during Rift runs when someone insists on casting Arcane Refusal right before we fight things throwing out Spirit damage, and then there's no way to fix it besides waiting 15 minutes and/or making the run grind to a halt to discuss what wards we should be applying, at which point Thickle wants to die because buff-juggling was already tedious enough.

    Or, shortest version: Thickle wishes the three wards of the same tier could overwrite each other and/or that they were all the same level and strength instead of being staggered out awkwardly and having strange overwriting issues.
    There's no way with the current tech to allow them to overwrite either direction. Its one-way only.

    Sorry I meant that while having Lightning Arrows III active Flame Attack V when cast will not change the damage type from nature to flame but Flame Attack IV will change the damage type to flame.
    I know of no reason why this would occur. There is no difference other than DPS (4 to 5) and coin value (670 to 870) between Flame Attack IV and V.
    "Alea iacta est" -- Julius Caesar

    Toot shouted, voice shrill, "In the name of the Pizza Lord! Charge!" (Jim Butcher's Dresden Files)

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will spends it whole life believing that it is stupid." -- Albert Einstein

  14. #14

    Default Re: Spell / Effect Conflicts

    Quote Originally Posted by Thicklesip View Post
    Aha, that explains one of these. Ignore Mysticism, Countercheck Primal, and Arcane Refusal (the three dragon Ward buffs): If the spells are all the same tier, Countercheck Primal overwrites Ignore Mysticism but cannot be overwritten by it. Arcane Refuse overwrites both of those, and can be overwritten by neither. .
    for me best desision in make all dragon's buf not overritble, but only removble manualy.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Spell / Effect Conflicts

    Quote Originally Posted by Cooolios View Post
    Sorry I meant that while having Lightning Arrows III active Flame Attack V when cast will not change the damage type from nature to flame but Flame Attack IV will change the damage type to flame.
    Since today was maintenance day I went to Blight and tried it out. It works as designed. Flame Attack V changes it to flame damage.

    When the shards came up I tested it again on Order. Now it's doing exactly as I described. Is it possible it's shard specific?

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Spell / Effect Conflicts

    Quote Originally Posted by Cooolios View Post
    Since today was maintenance day I went to Blight and tried it out. It works as designed. Flame Attack V changes it to flame damage.

    When the shards came up I tested it again on Order. Now it's doing exactly as I described. Is it possible it's shard specific?
    Blight and Live have different clients...

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  17. #17

    Default Re: Spell / Effect Conflicts

    neither flame attack V, nor energy attack V will change lightning arrow's nature damage.. only ice attack V works. it seems to me, all 3 should work the same way. any of the 3 should overwrite lightning arrows nature damage.

    also the ice crystal that changes damage to ice, does not change lightning arrows nature damage either. you must remove lightning arrows to get ice effect off the crystal. sorry, atm i can not think of the crystals exact name.
    i only know it's a quested crystal, and when inserted into a bow, does not change damage to ice if you are using lightning arrows

  18. #18

    Default Re: Spell / Effect Conflicts

    Quote Originally Posted by Zorbin View Post
    neither flame attack V, nor energy attack V will change lightning arrow's nature damage.. only ice attack V works. it seems to me, all 3 should work the same way. any of the 3 should overwrite lightning arrows nature damage.

    also the ice crystal that changes damage to ice, does not change lightning arrows nature damage either. you must remove lightning arrows to get ice effect off the crystal. sorry, atm i can not think of the crystals exact name.
    i only know it's a quested crystal, and when inserted into a bow, does not change damage to ice if you are using lightning arrows
    I mentioned this a month ago. Here's part of a log as evidence.
    [06/24/12 21:48:04] Flame Attack V has faded.
    [06/24/12 21:48:05] Bloodskulk Spearfisher -> Cooolios : Throw Spear II [ 25 perce ]
    [06/24/12 21:48:06] Cooolios -> Bloodskulk Spearfisher [ Missed ]
    [06/24/12 21:48:07] Cooolios -> Cooolios : Flame Attack IV [ Casting... ]
    [06/24/12 21:48:09] Cooolios -> Cooolios : Flame Attack IV
    [06/24/12 21:48:11] Cooolios -> Bloodskulk Spearfisher [ Dodged ]
    [06/24/12 21:48:13] Cooolios -> Bloodskulk Spearfisher [ 146 flame ]
    [06/24/12 21:48:15] Cooolios -> Bloodskulk Spearfisher [ 113 flame ]

    I suspect what happened here is that your Flame Attack V ran out due to the timer on the spell and you cast Flame Attack IV instead. I've tried replicating this and have been unable to, and the data is set up properly in the database as well.
    Last edited by Velea; August 6th, 2012 at 02:20 PM. Reason: Added developer feedback and removed extra parts of log

  19. #19

    Default Re: Spell / Effect Conflicts

    Quote Originally Posted by Cooolios View Post
    ...One of my biggest peeves is Fortify V conflicting with Enhance Armor V and Raise Armor V. It completely overwrites it. I think it would make more sense if Enhance Armor or any armor spell for that matter overwrote the tiered version of Fortify. Fortify is only a 15 second buff...
    They should stack. Fortify is a "tech effect" and extremely shortlived. It should not conflict with anything other than say lower versions of itself. If this is going to conflict it is an example of yet another tech made worthless because of these conflicts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Krinharth View Post
    for me best desision in make all dragon's buf not overritble, but only removble manualy.
    While this is probably a good idea, the stacking should really be addressed, especially when it comes to food buffs such as chocolate spider. Because if they make it not overwrite, but not stack, what still happens is the spider food item is consumed, but no buff given. Since these are seasonal items made from a fairly rare component drop to begin with, they shouldn't be overwritten by anything other than say another food buff. I can see Fire Whiskey overwriting a Chocolate spider. But the food buffs (all) should stack with all other buffs such as Dragon buffs, enhance strength, potions, consumed crystals, etc.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Spell / Effect Conflicts

    Quote Originally Posted by Cooolios View Post
    I suspect what happened here is that your Flame Attack V ran out due to the timer on the spell and you cast Flame Attack IV instead. I've tried replicating this and have been unable to, and the data is set up properly in the database as well.
    log into order or chaos, use lightning arrows and try to use flame attack V or energy attack V. the spell casts, yes, but the actual damage doesn't change from nature to flame or energy. cast ice attack V and it changes to ice no problem. hit for ice damage. frozen spellshard crystal also will not change damage to ice as it states. as long as lightning arrows is on it stays nature damage

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