Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 45

Thread: Talk to the Team: Shields (Implemented)

  1. #21

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Shields

    hm game mechanic wise vs game descriptions
    Mechanic wise the new proposed changes are making small shields able to block things that would be VERY difficult to block namely any form of a projectile like arrows for example.
    I can see a medium shield having a higher block chance due to the inbetween size and lighter weight than a tower shield but a tower shield having a low block bonus than a tiny little wrist mounted shield does not make any sense. the small shields I feel would always have the lowest chance to block any attack the change may want to consider is instead adding a parry bonus ONLY to the small shields not the medium or large shields at best. Secondly a large shield that covers one body would make it much harder for a opponent to hit the user thus having a higher blocking chance than a tiny shield

  2. #22

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Shields

    honestly I looked at the idea of the parry bonus etc. I still think small shield should not have a higher block bonus than the large shields it just feel wrong. small I can adjust to the lowed large shield block bonus an description of medium is supposed to have a better block chance. I feel small shield still need to have the lowest block bonus of all the shields. the reason I feel its wrong is because it unbalanced that a small shield can defend better than a tower shield

  3. #23

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Shields

    Honestly Making a small shield give more of a block bonus feels its going just unbalance all the shields. No small shield should have a higher block chance than a medium or large shield, adding a block bonus to the small shield is useful yes. But logically and in game mechanics it seems kind of wrong that a wrist mounted shield can block more things than shield that nearly covers the user body? If you are looking for idea or suggestions i can think of some ideas but again it would mean the medium and large shields will have a higher block chance. Small shield based on the discription are small type not really capable of any real block chance or used as a weapon or to deflect a incoming attack. Medium shields according to the description were able to block most incoming attacks so this shield should get the highest block bonus not the small shields. my opinion is this. Medium shields +15 and for fine +20, large 10 and fine +15, Small +5 and fine small +10. As for being forced to use any one type of shield is not true, players use what was most effective, by making small shields give more block bonus in a way is forcing the players to use the small shields. Next is the only currently "worthless" shield in live is the small one due to it does not have any block bonus

  4. #24

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Shields

    To reiterate, the goal is to make Small and Medium Shields actually worth using. Currently they are not as they offer nothing at all over the Large Shields. We could remove them for all the use they get and very few players would notice.


    We also considered Parry as an option, but we decided against it for a couple reasons. The first being that we've already established in the game the concept that Weapons Parry and Shields Block. Secondly, we decided that it would be a lot more re-work and possibly more confusing on the player end to make it so that Parry techs could be applied to Weapons and Small Shields, but not Medium or Large.


    We reviewed other options to make small shields more appealing as well, but they all involved penalties to using larger shields and most of us internally decided that wouldn't go over well. Which in the end left us with few options to consider, higher block being the main one.


    I understand that in a way it does make sense for larger shields to offer higher block, but at the same time they also offer higher armor by a significant amount. Higher armor reduces damage, higher block helps avoid hits. So hopefully by having shields with differing values of Block and Armor it will create opportunities for players to customize their look without being forced to use a particular size shield because its the best while all others are left behind as worthless.


    I appreciate everyone's feedback, but I have yet to see any true feedback from anyone that addresses the issues I have stated about small and medium shields being under-used or completely useless. Giving large shields more armor and block makes them the required shields and leaves medium and small worthless as they offer no positives over the larger version.

    Again, thank you and I appreciate everyone's enthusiasm.
    "Alea iacta est" -- Julius Caesar

    Toot shouted, voice shrill, "In the name of the Pizza Lord! Charge!" (Jim Butcher's Dresden Files)

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will spends it whole life believing that it is stupid." -- Albert Einstein

  5. #25

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Shields

    Time for a test result today in the arena witha helian dragon melee trial. Notes are i have a passive +20 block bonus so base block bonus is +30 with a large shield.

    a Normal Fine large shield +10 block bonus

    the first test was the shortest
    2 out 6 successful hits were blocked

    the next with the block tech V +16

    4 out of 8 hits were blocked

    the current live ceremonial shield +20
    6 out of 11

    The next test was with the employ shield ability (+20 block bonus)

    Fine large
    6 out of 15

    fine with tech
    9 out of 15

    cermonial +20
    9 out of 16

    these were end results of number of attacks blocked vs number of successful hits excluding the miss and dodge attempts

  6. #26

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Shields

    Another idea given by a friend today, thought of the game demon souls

    Bucklers (small), kite (mediums) and tower (large)

    small had lowest armor and weakest for pure blocking

    mediums mid range armor but very blocking due design

    tower shield couldnt do much but block and heavy armor

    so thinking if large shields got a good amount of armor increase to offset a lowered block bonus (figureing their weight would make blocking alot difficult)

    Medium having a noticably less armor than a large shield would have but a considerably higher blocking chance

    Small shield having the least armor but coming in close behind mediums for block bonus

  7. #27

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Shields

    I new propsed idea regarding the shields. From the smallest block bonus to the largest block bonus based on things such as description of each shield and size.
    Lowest block bonus = Large shields
    Mid way = small shields
    Higest = Medium shields

    Large shield would still offer the highest amount of armor over a medium or small shields

    as for a exmaple armor value, lowest to highest, medium, small, large

    and for block bonus lowest to highest, large, small, medium

  8. #28

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Shields

    After reading and discussing these are my 2 cents.

    Amon your original idea I like. Small having a higher block value and large having the least, and small having the least armor and large the most. This would leave medium shields in the middle which is fine for people who want the best of both worlds. I feel that the descriptions would need to be changed as a result to compliment any changes and that possibly the block amount should be a little more drastic ( though i do not know how much because i dont know the math used).

    The only other way I think that I would personally use a small or med over my large would be if say they reduced a delay or recycle as previously stated in another post or offered some kind of natural resistance like the round shields etc. Could even make large have a 5% reduction to ranged attacks since it's liste in the desription? That would make me choose smaller for closer combat and large for ranged. :)

  9. #29

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Shields

    Maybe add an innate bonus to evasion for the small and medium shields that would not take tech slots?
    Like for example +150 evasion for T5 small shields and +75 evasion for T5 medium ones?

    Anyways, what bothers me more is the fact that block (and evasion too) is working only against current target. Can it be made to work against anyone attacking without being dependent of it being targeted or not?
    This is especially annoying for supports (healers/clerics) that most of the time have their group mates targeted and not the enemy.
    Northwind * Ancient, Crafter, Lairshaper * 100/100/100
    Northpole * Spoiled biped * 100 BTLM, 100 CLRC, 100 RVR, 100 RNGR, 100 MAGE, 100 WIZ, 100 SORC, 100 CONJ, 100 SPRT, 100 DRU, 100 HLR, 100 GRDN, 100 MON, 60 WAR, 44 BRSK/SPRM, 40 CHSW * 100 BLK, 100 OUT, 100 JWL, 100 ARM, 100 WPN, 100 FLE, 100 FIT, 100 MSN, 100 SCH, 87 SPL, 85 GTH, 85 MIN

  10. #30

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Shields

    Quote Originally Posted by Northwind View Post
    Maybe add an innate bonus to evasion for the small and medium shields that would not take tech slots?
    Like for example +150 evasion for T5 small shields and +75 evasion for T5 medium ones?

    Anyways, what bothers me more is the fact that block (and evasion too) is working only against current target. Can it be made to work against anyone attacking without being dependent of it being targeted or not?
    This is especially annoying for supports (healers/clerics) that most of the time have their group mates targeted and not the enemy.
    I second this.

  11. #31

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Shields

    Other thoughts i had about the shields partial to what coolios said however i feel a bonus block chance for large shield vs ranged attacks only not a damage reduction and the small shield having a penalty to block bonus vs ranged attacks (neither of these spell based)
    To clarify description of the large shield its was meant for advances against ranged attackers. While medium shields excelled most at blocking attacks, so i still feel the small shields should have a lower block chance than a medium shield. An i dont feel just changing the descriptions just make it match the proposed new block bonus is right. The evasion boost to small shields would make sense due to its small size. First i feel the descriptions are fine just the way they are. I still remain with the feeling medium shields should have the highest block bonus of the 3 shield types, I am even fine with a medium shield having the lowest armor amount to compensate for the increased block bonus.

  12. #32

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Shields

    First of all, I've never had a class that can use shields. What I am suggesting might just be impossible, impractical, or dumb.

    What about buffing the small and meduim to the same level as large, so really the only choice is visual?

    Or in addition to that, make the various types take different techs or bonus stats as previously suggested. Large get the defensive techs, medium a mix, and small offensive. And all types can share some techs too; sockets for example. (I'm clueless to the current state of teching options on a shield.)
    torvos: shadow to chaos shard

  13. #33

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Shields

    Many classes can use shields, warrior, knight of creation, shaman , druid, paladin, cleric, healer, gaurdian, battlemage, reaver, spearman, ranger.

    Perhaps a final post from me.

    Small shields, buff to evasion and second highest block bonus, lowest armor value

    Medium shields, mid range armor value, highest block bonus

    Large shields, highest armor value, lowest block bonus

  14. #34

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Shields

    [QUOTE=Northwind;
    Anyways, what bothers me more is the fact that block (and evasion too) is working only against current target. Can it be made to work against anyone attacking without being dependent of it being targeted or not?
    This is especially annoying for supports (healers/clerics) that most of the time have their group mates targeted and not the enemy.[/QUOTE]

    The way the devs setup the newer combat system, a player or enemies evasion is based more on currently engaged target.

    Prime example

    2 players in a group vs 1 myloc

    Player A agros the myloc and myloc attacks Player A, myloc dodge chance for a non spirit bolt user is VERY high an likely to dodge many/most of player A's attacks.

    Player B also using melee or non spirit based spells attacks myloc, the myloc dodge chance vs player B is greatly/drastically reduced because it is not currently "engaged" with player B.

    The old system worked vs incoming attacks and did not have to be from currently engaged target.

    This applied to block, parry, and both evasion and magic evasion on the old system

    At the moment i dont know but the older system worked better for any healer (support) class when they got agro from other mobs/adds

  15. #35

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Shields

    Quote Originally Posted by starlight View Post
    Small shields, buff to evasion and second highest block bonus, lowest armor value

    Medium shields, mid range armor value, highest block bonus

    Large shields, highest armor value, lowest block bonus
    This actually seems to make the most sense, truth be told. Although, I'd suggest not changing the large shields current block bonus factor, instead, work on buffing up the small and medium shield to more resemble Starlight's suggestion here... I could picture a large shield keeping its current block bonus of 10 and getting a boost to its armor, but medium shield picking up to 20, and small picking up to 15 plus the evasion boost.

    Ri'ta'ra'thi Is'mi'nei: Season 100 ADV/100 CRA/100 BLK(former)/100 LSH/ 1.11 BILLION hoard
    Kytitia Pyrrithia: Unparalleled Rating 212 Saris Sorceror, Rating 234 Crafter

  16. #36
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Nowhere near Slayvite's Lair i can tell you that. He has Ranch sauce instead of shampoo.
    Posts
    908

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Shields

    Let's not forget the Healer's friend, The Cross Shield :)

  17. #37

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Shields

    I would like to see you have Bucklers as a new shield type or just have the smalls be able to be used as a buckler shield that attach to the foreams so my crossbowman could use them. At release of this game there was talk about having crossbowman be able to equip such a shield,but nothing every happened. My crossbowman needs more survivablity and this would help. He gets the Block ability just like scouts but it is never used. It was my understanding that this was the vision of the class from the beginning.

  18. #38

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Shields

    If you are not for sure what I mean here is a picture. If you are going to redo the shields this would be a great add on. It would allow more character to use the shields. It would also allow the bow /crossbow classes to take advantage of their block skill they already have. Like I said I think this was the original view of the class but it got lost somewhere. I use to have some sources from the game maker talking about it, I will look to see if I can dig those up, though that was many computers ago so not for sure.

    What do you think of this idea it? I do not think it would be to hard to implement, and my crossbowman needs more survivablity.


  19. #39

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Shields

    Personally, I look at it like this. If you were in the heat of battle with a shield and your opponent took a swing at you with a weapon there are a few ways to do so. Depending on which attack was used, each shield would defend you for better or for worse. Large shields do provide a lot of coverage however are truly impossible to move quickly in the event of most frontal attacks, causing the attacker to easily move around the large shield and strike at vulnerable points. There are a couple different ways it could go. Direct downward swing which would impact the head/shoulders/chest. With a large shield, the defender would have to lift that large shield to angle it towards the downward blow of the weapon. The larger the shield the less angle you can use to deflect the incoming attack. So the impact becomes more of a dead blow against a large shield vs.

    The same attack on a small shield, you could provide more angle to the attacking weapon causing it to graze and deflect off the shield instead of the direct impact. Although the large shield absorbed the damage, giving the direct hit of the attack, it would still push through the shield and impact you in some way. If the hit happened towards the top of the large shield, it would put alot of downward force at the weakest point of the shield, where the least amount of opposing force is. (think about where that large shield is actually secured to the person holding it.) That hit would reverberated down the shield, move through your arm and hit your core. A smaller shield allows more deflection which in turn, reduces impact and injury.

    Apply this logic to a sweeping swing attack that goes from one side to the other on a even plain. The impact point would be your arms, ribs, hips, etc. Same thing would happen, if you were defending with a large shield you would be able to get the shield infront of the weapon but you wouldn't be able to angle it to deflect the incoming attack, it would just be another dead blow. And even in fantasy, the more direct of a hit you take, the more damage you receive regardless of armor.

    I really think Amon has the right idea with this one. Large shields provide coverage but they do not provide real world blocking.

    Think about it.
    Last edited by Finkledbody; October 7th, 2014 at 05:41 PM.

    Just a little drunk dwarven bi-ped wreaking havoc in chaos.

  20. #40

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Shields

    Quote Originally Posted by AmonGwareth View Post
    I understand that in a way it does make sense for larger shields to offer higher block, but at the same time they also offer higher armor by a significant amount. Higher armor reduces damage, higher block helps avoid hits. So hopefully by having shields with differing values of Block and Armor it will create opportunities for players to customize their look without being forced to use a particular size shield because its the best while all others are left behind as worthless.
    For folks that don't understand why this change is being considered re-read this a few times. A bigger shield does not block any better then a smaller shield does, In fact its the absolute opposite. The larger the shield the more likely you are to be get hit. Lets say a volley of arrows were shot at you and you have a large shield. The most likely defense holding one of those would be to hide behind it right? Essentially grounding you to your current position on the battle field. Any arrows that are coming down are going to hit you. They wont be deflected off the shield, instead they will stick directly into it possibly compromising the integrity of the large shield and leaving you exposed to the next volley.

    On the flip side If you were holding a small shield you would be able to move a little to the left, a little to the right, a little back or forward... Basically you are able to move out of the way of most, and put your small shield up at a desired angle and deflect any remaining arrows. Although the surface is smaller, what you can do with it is greatly increased because of the principles of deflection. Large shields don't deflect, they absorb.

    I would really like to see your ideas implemented Amon. I know if the small shields were updated to block instead of absorb, I would personally go that route. As is though, my only option is the tower shield because people 'feel' that is the way it should be. With no real logic behind it.

    Just a little drunk dwarven bi-ped wreaking havoc in chaos.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Talk to the Team: Epic Loot (Implemented)
    By AmonGwareth in forum Talk to the team
    Replies: 97
    Last Post: November 11th, 2014, 02:36 PM
  2. Talk to the Team: Stuns
    By AmonGwareth in forum Talk to the team
    Replies: 49
    Last Post: September 6th, 2014, 07:25 PM
  3. Talk to the Team: Neo Schools
    By AmonGwareth in forum Talk to the team
    Replies: 40
    Last Post: May 27th, 2014, 02:53 PM
  4. Talk to the Team: Cleric
    By AmonGwareth in forum Talk to the team
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: May 3rd, 2014, 09:59 AM
  5. Talk to the Team: Alchemist
    By AmonGwareth in forum Talk to the team
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: March 30th, 2014, 11:04 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •