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Thread: Talk to the Team: Shields (Implemented)

  1. #41
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    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Shields

    Would make a lot more sense to me if the smaller shields had lower block than the bigger ones, but also had an added +dodge, +m/physevasion stat on 'em.

    @Finkeled, gonna have to be a little more specific than that if you want to use a scenario in your argument. Depends how many arrows, how small is a small shield, and so on. If someone shoots a volley at me, wouldn't I want a big shield to hide behind, because a small one would, while be better at deflecting, also run the risk of me ending up with an arrow in my foot/shin/knee/wherever? If the 'volley' was really small or really visible, then sure I'd go for a smaller shield. Also big shields don't -have- to be flat - they can be curved too.

    A bigger shield does not block any better then a smaller shield does
    Dunno what you mean here - what I took from your post( >.> read it going on 4 times now) is that bigger shields block better, and the smaller ones don't block as well, but deflect a lot better.

    How I think of it is - if I've got a dragon thirty to fourty times my size (or more), what is going to take the hit better - a tiny shield or a big one? The big one. Okay, the big one blocks better, the tiny one will let my poor little biped get out of the way, maybe.
    Last edited by Alisto; October 7th, 2014 at 10:13 PM.

  2. #42

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Shields

    Quote Originally Posted by Alisto View Post
    Would make a lot more sense to me if the smaller shields had lower block than the bigger ones, but also had an added +dodge, +m/physevasion stat on 'em.

    @Finkeled, gonna have to be a little more specific than that if you want to use a scenario in your argument. Depends how many arrows, how small is a small shield, and so on. If someone shoots a volley at me, wouldn't I want a big shield to hide behind, because a small one would, while be better at deflecting, also run the risk of me ending up with an arrow in my foot/shin/knee/wherever? If the 'volley' was really small or really visible, then sure I'd go for a smaller shield. Also big shields don't -have- to be flat - they can be curved too.


    Dunno what you mean here - what I took from your post( >.> read it going on 4 times now) is that bigger shields block better, and the smaller ones don't block as well, but deflect a lot better.

    How I think of it is - if I've got a dragon thirty to fourty times my size (or more), what is going to take the hit better - a tiny shield or a big one? The big one. Okay, the big one blocks better, the tiny one will let my poor little biped get out of the way, maybe.
    The arrows were one of 3 scenarios I wrote out the best I could with limited time on my break while at work. Lets forget that one for now if we can. The post I wrote before that one I was able to go into a bit more detail with a couple different frontal attacks. I'll attempt to build upon the logic although I must say first... If a dragon thirty or forty times your size took a swing at you, a big shield isn't going to do anything over a small one. Consider yourself squash :P


    Quote Originally Posted by Finkledbody View Post
    Personally, I look at it like this. If you were in the heat of battle with a shield and your opponent took a swing at you with a weapon there are a few ways to do so. Depending on which attack was used, each shield would defend you for better or for worse. Large shields do provide a lot of coverage however are truly impossible to move quickly in the event of most frontal attacks, causing the attacker to easily move around the large shield and strike at vulnerable points. There are a couple different ways it could go. Direct downward swing which would impact the head/shoulders/chest. With a large shield, the defender would have to lift that large shield to angle it towards the downward blow of the weapon. The larger the shield the less angle you can use to deflect the incoming attack. So the impact becomes more of a dead blow against a large shield
    In the event of a downward blow with a large shield, its very likely a hammer type weapon would still strike the defender since the impact point of the weapon has length past the point where the pole would meet the shield. In this event, even when the pole hit the shield the mass of the hammer head above the top of the shield would force the shield to pivot into the defender (because the opposing force is at the middle of the shield) once the shield pivots the next thing the defender has to do is put his shoulder/head up against the top of the shield to prevent it from pivoting so far back that it would cause the shield user to fall over. Since the only option is to put your head/shoulder up against the large shield to apply opposing force against the attack, ultimately all you have done is stuck a solid surface in between you and the weapon, and we've all seen those balls on a string right? The force will move directly through the shield into the user causing injury. With a blow like this the amount of time it would take to reposition yourself to prepare for the next blow would leave you venerable to further injury. Lets not forget about the fatigue from wielding a larger shield as well. Even if you can get a few quick well angled blocks in with a large shield, how many times would you be able to swing that large shield around before you rotator cuff lets go? and the next attack wales you right on the forehead?

    Quote Originally Posted by Finkledbody View Post
    The same attack on a small shield, you could provide more angle to the attacking weapon causing it to graze and deflect off the shield instead of the direct impact. Although the large shield absorbed the damage, giving the direct hit of the attack, it would still push through the shield and impact you in some way. If the hit happened towards the top of the large shield, it would put alot of downward force at the weakest point of the shield, where the least amount of opposing force is. (think about where that large shield is actually secured to the person holding it.) That hit would reverberate down the shield, move through your arm and hit your core. A smaller shield allows more deflection which in turn, reduces impact and injury.
    With a smaller shield you can focus and use your forearm as the opposing force intelligently above your head and turn the shield at a 45* angle counter to your position so when the strike comes down, its deflected off the shield away from the defender. Also with this sort of defensive block, the attacker has to use more energy to slow his weapon causing fatigue.

    I could go on, but I'm at work.. I should probably go do some stuff.

    Just a little drunk dwarven bi-ped wreaking havoc in chaos.

  3. #43

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Shields

    To make use of small, medium and large shields there has to be a benifit to each for different scenarios; of course I think everyone already understands that. I really like the idea of the +25 Life skill added to the yew fine round cross shield for my healer.

    For a tank player up front smashing stuff, I would think there would be no better shield than the Mithril Fine Large Shield but, for support ie healers, mages ect.. It would be nice to have possibly lower armor and block bonus but more offensive "additional bonuses" that would help that type of school like +Power, +Life, +Focus; (Magic evasion added Blight, Spirit, Flame, Ice ect..). I think if this type of change were to be made you would indeed see people begin to think about using the other types of shields available I know I would. I would be willing to lose some armor on my shield to get an extra bonus to help my school.
    Cheers

    -Kaishan
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  4. #44

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Shields

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaishan View Post
    To make use of small, medium and large shields there has to be a benifit to each for different scenarios; of course I think everyone already understands that. I really like the idea of the +25 Life skill added to the yew fine round cross shield for my healer....
    This is a good point. I think that was what Amon was going for with the block changes.

    I think more differentiation of the shields would help spread the love even better across the range of shields. In your example with the healer/cleric shield with +25 life, how about bumping that up to +250 life? 25 life is pretty much an un-noticable difference. +250 will stand out as the obvious choice for healers and make the shield actually beneficial. Follow that same line of thought on the other shield with skill boosts and players will actually use them. I don't know anyone except Kaishan who actually uses the round shields with skills on them...

  5. #45

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Shields

    I third this idea. Let's get away with just thinking in the terms of blocking and armor amount for tankers and think about how we could help out the support teams.
    Great idea Amon

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